Assault rifles for self defense

[Chaussette]

So your militia would have no chance against a tyrannical government which keeps all the good arms for itself. AAAHHHH! Poor you.

As the insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq so clearly demonstrated.

Your brilliance shines like a black hole, sploogy.

Ya, those insurgents sure are winning!!!!

 

[westwall]

What? No stun grenades? No mounted .50 next to your bed?

What? Still no intelligent comments on the actual topic? Just snarky generalizations and stereotypes?? What a surprise.

Ok, here's a real question: do you kiss your gun goodnight before you go to sleep?

Ummmmm, no? Do you kiss your Little Red Book goodnight when you go to bed? See how stupid a comment that is?

 

[westwall]

Anyways, the government keeps all the really badass weapons for themselves and don't let ordinary citizens have them. The 2nd Amendment be damned!!

The so called "badass" weapons are usually not small arms. And if they are it is just a matter of being fully automatic. That lets you spray a lot of rounds, but is not conducive to accuracy.

So your militia would have no chance against a tyrannical government which keeps all the good arms for itself. AAAHHHH! Poor you.

Actually the Romanian Revolution was started with single shot .22 target pistols. They traded up as it were...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really good ONE example. Now find 11,999 more examples to match the number of gun homocides in this country per year and you MIGHT have an argument.

Except there aren't 12,000 homicides using "assault rifles" each year. And that was what was asked.

There are far more than 12k instances of a firearm being used to defend an innocent person or to stop a crime.

Really? Then let's hear about them. But you don't have to show "far more" than 12k....just 12k will do. And I'm presuming you mean per year of course.

This link does not report numbers, but emphasizes the importance of firearms use in self defense.
CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ?Important Crime Deterrent? | CNS News
Rough estimates here for practical reasons and of course the majority of self preservation incidents which included the use of a firearms may go unreported.
How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek.
from the CATO institute..
Two additional points are worth noting. First, the map is not comprehensive. Criminals will often flee the scene when they discover that their intended target has a gun. With no shots fired, no injuries, and no suspect in custody, news organizations may report nothing at all.
Guns and Self Defense | Cato Institute
What is important in this debate is the right to keep and bear arms does deter crime.
That's a fact. Restricting or even banning firearms from the law abiding citizen does nothing to deter crime. In fact such restrictions or bans may even enhance crime.
The reason is simple. A criminal, knowing his or her potential victim is defenseless, would be more likely to commit the crime.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ya, those insurgents sure are winning!!!!

I see your point, they are running with tails between their legs.

Oh wait, that was Obama.

So, who's sock are you? Another moron leftist without a hint of intellect....

 

[hangover]

Ya, those insurgents sure are winning!!!!

I see your point, they are running with tails between their legs.

Oh wait, that was Obama.

So, who's sock are you? Another moron leftist without a hint of intellect....

So obviously you're still buying Shrub's "mission accomplished" schick. Here's a clue, Shrub installed a Shiite government in Iraq, which is best buds with Iran. Al Qaeda is stronger now than before his invasion of Afghanistan. And he wasted $3 trillion of our money doing it. You're looking at the moron in the mirror.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Assault rifles are not a good choice for home defense. Likely engagement distance makes a long gun unwieldy and easier to deflect. Pistol's best in the home. Plus the penetration power of any rifle round makes it more likely after going completely through the target, it's gonna go through the walls and into a neighbor's home.

That's not always true. A light AR round fragments when hitting sheetrock. Or flesh. A 9mm round has more penetrating power. ARs are not "long" and there's a reason SWAT type teams use them. A 30 round AR has a lot of firepower, manuverable, easy to control and is very accurate.

Yep....a lot of misconceptions out there.
An AR is a fine home defense weapon.

 

[Contumacious]

Ya, those insurgents sure are winning!!!!

I see your point, they are running with tails between their legs.

Oh wait, that was Obama.

So, who's sock are you? Another moron leftist without a hint of intellect....

So obviously you're still buying Shrub's "mission accomplished" schick. Here's a clue, Shrub installed a Shiite government in Iraq, which is best buds with Iran. Al Qaeda is stronger now than before his invasion of Afghanistan. And he wasted $3 trillion of our money doing it. You're looking at the moron in the mirror.

There we agree, absolutely.

.

 

[WinterBorn]

Except there aren't 12,000 homicides using "assault rifles" each year. And that was what was asked.

There are far more than 12k instances of a firearm being used to defend an innocent person or to stop a crime.

Really? Then let's hear about them. But you don't have to show "far more" than 12k....just 12k will do. And I'm presuming you mean per year of course.

This link does not report numbers, but emphasizes the importance of firearms use in self defense.
CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ?Important Crime Deterrent? | CNS News
Rough estimates here for practical reasons and of course the majority of self preservation incidents which included the use of a firearms may go unreported.
How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense? - Businessweek.
from the CATO institute..
Two additional points are worth noting. First, the map is not comprehensive. Criminals will often flee the scene when they discover that their intended target has a gun. With no shots fired, no injuries, and no suspect in custody, news organizations may report nothing at all.
Guns and Self Defense | Cato Institute
What is important in this debate is the right to keep and bear arms does deter crime.
That's a fact. Restricting or even banning firearms from the law abiding citizen does nothing to deter crime. In fact such restrictions or bans may even enhance crime.
The reason is simple. A criminal, knowing his or her potential victim is defenseless, would be more likely to commit the crime.

Excellent!! I agree.

Indeed the right to keep & bear arms does deter crime.

I also do not have to show a "need" for a particular firearm in order to possess it. My constitutionally guaranteed rights are not to be abridged by what someone else thinks I need.

Your right to free speech is not qualified by what you need to say.

Your right to worship as you choose is not qualified by what you need to worship.

Your right to assemble is not restricted to only those assemblies which you need to attend.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So obviously you're still buying Shrub's "mission accomplished" schick. Here's a clue, Shrub installed a Shiite government in Iraq, which is best buds with Iran. Al Qaeda is stronger now than before his invasion of Afghanistan. And he wasted $3 trillion of our money doing it. You're looking at the moron in the mirror.

I opposed war in Iraq from day one.

Bush installed no government in Iraq, he allowed free elections. But guess what? The majority is Shiite, so what would anyone sane expect to happen? I never saw a good outcome in Iraq, and still don't. IF we needed to oust Saddam, which is open for debate, then the Shock and Awe phase should have been the ONLY phase to the war.

As far as your partisan bullshit on Al Qaeda, it is just that, bullshit. Obama claims to have destroyed Al Qaeda, which is obviously false - Obama lies, about everything. But Al Qaeda is a fraction of what they were on 9-11-2001. Obama installed Al Qaeda as the government of Egypt. A popularly backed military coup drove Obama's Al Qaeda allies from power, greatly diminishing their control.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Merruccans need assault weapons because they never know when the urge to kill lots of people will strike them. Best to be prepared.

Thank you for helping to prove the premise that anti-gun loons can only argue from emtoion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

 

[g5000]

Assault rifles for self defense -

Real world examples of this happening in the U.S. when the person using the weapon for self defense is -

1. Not acting as a government agent nor using a weapon issued to him/her by the government
2. Not acting as a trained private security guard.
3. Not defending a criminal enterprise.

Any?

So you are saying one must justify the need for one's rights before one is allowed those rights, eh? Interesting.

To illustrate the fallacy of your illogic, I would ask for examples of someone being in a situation where they needed midget porn.

Any?

 

[westwall]

Assault rifles for self defense -

Real world examples of this happening in the U.S. when the person using the weapon for self defense is -

1. Not acting as a government agent nor using a weapon issued to him/her by the government
2. Not acting as a trained private security guard.
3. Not defending a criminal enterprise.

Any?

So you are saying one must justify the need for one's rights before one is allowed those rights, eh? Interesting.

To illustrate the fallacy of your illogic, I would ask for examples of someone being in a situation where they needed midget porn.

Any?

Let's take it further... where is the need for gay marriage? Where is the compelling need for legalized abortions? Where is the compelling need for mass transit? Based on usage there is very little need for mass transit. Etc. etc. etc.

If you wish to bring "need" into the argument, best get ready for a lot of your pet desires to bite the big one.

 

[OKTexas]

Really good ONE example. Now find 11,999 more examples to match the number of gun homocides in this country per year and you MIGHT have an argument.

Except there aren't 12,000 homicides using "assault rifles" each year. And that was what was asked.

There are far more than 12k instances of a firearm being used to defend an innocent person or to stop a crime.

Really? Then let's hear about them. But you don't have to show "far more" than 12k....just 12k will do. And I'm presuming you mean per year of course.

Just like an ass wipe commie, gets it's ass beat and starts changing the rules and moving the goal post. How about you just go fuck yourself.

 

[emilynghiem]

Assault rifles for self defense -

Real world examples of this happening in the U.S. when the person using the weapon for self defense is -

1. Not acting as a government agent nor using a weapon issued to him/her by the government
2. Not acting as a trained private security guard.
3. Not defending a criminal enterprise.

Any?

When 'assault weapons' saved Koreatown | Human Events

1. Do Korean businesses in the LA riots count?
Or should we expect them to whip out some Matrix style karate and defy bullets?

2. Does it only have to be self-defense against people? if people ever found themselves being overrun by massive herds of wild feral hogs reported in TX, it is not unusual to use all manner of weaponry against them.

Hey BTW when you get tired of picking apart this issue.

Try asking similar 3rd degree questions about abortion, like "why can't all abortions
take place during the first few weeks or trimester." Is it REALLY necessary to have
access to late term abortions unrestricted. And see if you don't get your head bitten off
for similar reasons. ie, if you don't like abortions, don't have one and don't cause one.

And just because you don't trust people, even lawabiding citizens and Constitutionalists with guns, doesn't mean banning everyone.

it's one thing if YOU don't believe in something being a necessary choice.
it's another thing to abuse GOVT power to FORCE that belief on everyone else.

I believe prolife views against abortion are quite accurate and serious,
and need to be taken into consideration to make decisions with full information.
but that DOESN'T give anyone the right to abuse GOVT to FORCE that on anyone else.

do you see the similarity here?

 

[emilynghiem]

Really good ONE example. Now find 11,999 more examples to match the number of gun homocides in this country per year and you MIGHT have an argument.

Except there aren't 12,000 homicides using "assault rifles" each year. And that was what was asked.

There are far more than 12k instances of a firearm being used to defend an innocent person or to stop a crime.

Really? Then let's hear about them. But you don't have to show "far more" than 12k....just 12k will do. And I'm presuming you mean per year of course.

And how many potential crimes will we NEVER hear about because they were deterred at the start?
without anyone confronting anyone else, but just knowing people can be carrying arms.
how do you BEGIN to count the deterrence without any show of guns or force, but knowing people have that right and use it?

 

[emilynghiem]

Assault rifles for self defense -

Real world examples of this happening in the U.S. when the person using the weapon for self defense is -

1. Not acting as a government agent nor using a weapon issued to him/her by the government
2. Not acting as a trained private security guard.
3. Not defending a criminal enterprise.

Any?

So you are saying one must justify the need for one's rights before one is allowed those rights, eh? Interesting.

To illustrate the fallacy of your illogic, I would ask for examples of someone being in a situation where they needed midget porn.

Any?

Let's take it further... where is the need for gay marriage? Where is the compelling need for legalized abortions? Where is the compelling need for mass transit? Based on usage there is very little need for mass transit. Etc. etc. etc.

If you wish to bring "need" into the argument, best get ready for a lot of your pet desires to bite the big one.

Excellent point! by this approach, you can explain limited govt. That what is the minimal we NEED govt to do, which cannot be done any other way. And shift the rest to the most efficient means of providing it, which usually means less conflict when you privatize anyway. You have more direct say and control over the policy and how to fund it without fighting or justifying to anyone else since you are not using their money in public resources.

Very good!

 

[emilynghiem]

Try this one.
Son Uses Dad’s AR-15 To Defend Home
Son Uses Dad’s AR-15 To Defend Home (2010) | Guns Save Lives

You did just ask for one, right? Question answered.

one example... not too bad.

now lets compare that against the mass shootings involving guns:

Josh Sugarmann: 10 U.S. Mass Shootings Involving High-Capacity Ammunition Magazines (Slide Show)

List of rampage killers: Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi LeftCoast: Thanks for holding your ground on a forum full of sharp shooting conservatives. You are a good sport, and I don't want to discourage you, but welcome the diversity and things we can gain from each other. I'm progressive Democrat, but from Texas, so I already have biases brought up in this culture. I try to balance both and stick to the Constitution where all sides agree, and keep the conflicts out of govt policy. I believe the people should decide these things, so we NEED to have these discussions to get there.

for your lists of how many killings involved which type of weapon(s)

this reminds me of the analogy with the person who drinks different things all week:
wine and water on Sunday, gin and water on Monday, scotch and water, rum and water,
etc. since the person gets drunk every single time, the common factor appears to be
the water.

but lo and behold there is alcohol embedded in the other drinks.
So that's the common factor that turns out to be the culprit, not the water.

in the case of not just gun killings but all forms of crime abuse murder, with or without
weapons, the common factor is
UNFORGIVENESS or FEAR

this causes rage, revenge, abuse, addictions, killing, sickness from depression to
criminal illness, and any number of damages, death and injury as a consequence

so if you want to get to the root of the killings, look at
UNFORGIVENESS and FEAR
if you address those factors, you can stop not only abuse of guns for killing
but just about any other preventable crime or sickness out there.

the guns are on the surface, it looks like the simplest common factor to spot,
like the water that isn't what causes the drunkenness

we can do more by addressing the cause of criminal abuse and sickness, than we can arguing about the guns or other weapons abused by sick people who didn't get help in time

 

[Contumacious]

Assault rifles for self defense

Oh those government-phobic cons gonna shoot them revenuers with their AK47's. In my town, we have one of them paranoids with an M60 mounted on the back of his Willy's jeep. I think he has a tank in his front yard too, and a Bazooka. Think he'll win? Maybe Russia will sell him a MIG and a couple of nukes. Nice to know who your friends are.

So is he wrong because he will lose , is he wrong because enough Americans don't feel that way yet?

Is might right?

American Revolutionary War

When the war began, the 13 colonies lacked a professional army or navy. Each colony sponsored local militia. Militiamen were lightly armed, had little training, and usually did not have uniforms. Their units served for only a few weeks or months at a time, were reluctant to travel far from home and thus were unavailable for extended operations, and lacked the training and discipline of soldiers with more experience. If properly used, however, their numbers could help the Continental armies overwhelm smaller British forces, as at the battles of Concord, Bennington and Saratoga, and the siege of Boston. Both sides used partisan warfare but the Americans effectively suppressed Loyalist activity when British regulars were not in the area."

Bud did the colonists kick ass or did their kick ass?!?!?!?!?!?


.

 

[Iceweasel]

That's not always true. A light AR round fragments when hitting sheetrock. Or flesh. A 9mm round has more penetrating power. ARs are not "long" and there's a reason SWAT type teams use them. A 30 round AR has a lot of firepower, manuverable, easy to control and is very accurate.

We put up a bunch of quarter inch thick, steel plates, hung from bailing wire in a server rack. At 50 yards, my Mini-14 shooting .223 - not the more powerful 5.56, drills a clean hole in them every time. My Glock 17 at 25 yards puts a small divot in the plates.

Small hole, high velocity. Unless you have atypical ammo the bullet broke apart. We were discussing home defense though, not many people have 1/4" thick steel walls. Box of Truth or something like that, did the test with multiple sheets of drywall. The AR round was the worst for penetrating down the line.