Atheism; An Intellectual Dead End

[ding]

I deon't care if you disagree, or not. Personal attacks are personal attacks. They don't bother me in the least.

You mean you didn't come here looking for a fight?

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

 

[sealybobo]

I hope you don't mind if I disagree. I really do believe people like you are dangerous. I'm not sure which argument you believe you won or why, but if you want to see it that way, more power to you.

I deon't care if you disagree, or not. Personal attacks are personal attacks. They don't bother me in the least.

You mean you didn't come here looking for a fight?

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

No first cause, no beginning and no end. Sorry epic fail.

 

[sealybobo]

You don't believe I believe religion is bad for us?

Overall I prefer the truth.

Why do we talk about race politics and other taboos here? It's fun.

Some part of you must enjoy it too. Unless you are trying to convert us?

I have never enjoyed conversations with disingenuous people.

What danger? What would happen if people stopped believing?

We'd end up like you.

Happy and saving 10℅ of my income

Happier and saving 34%.

So you save 34% and give 10% to a church? Or do you not give shit to a church. I thought so.

 

[sealybobo]

You mean you didn't come here looking for a fight?

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

 

[ding]

I deon't care if you disagree, or not. Personal attacks are personal attacks. They don't bother me in the least.

You mean you didn't come here looking for a fight?

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

No first cause, no beginning and no end. Sorry epic fail.

Where was the mocking of my illogical beliefs? Good Lord, you didn't even touch 3/4 of them and the only two you did touch on all you did was a categorical denial without any justification for your belief whatsoever.

Can you prove that the universe did not have a beginning? Can you prove that the universe does not have an ending? Can you prove that no first cause is needed?

I'd really like the chance to mock your beliefs. Until then I guess I will mock your lack of basis for beliefs. Which proves that atheism is an intellectual dead end.

 

[ding]

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

 

[ding]

I have never enjoyed conversations with disingenuous people.

What danger? What would happen if people stopped believing?

We'd end up like you.

Happy and saving 10℅ of my income

Happier and saving 34%.

So you save 34% and give 10% to a church? Or do you not give shit to a church. I thought so.

And that is a concern of yours why? Let's say I give more than 10% to charities. Is that enough for you?

 

[sealybobo]

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

In some ways yes.

 

[sealybobo]

What danger? What would happen if people stopped believing?

We'd end up like you.

Happy and saving 10℅ of my income

Happier and saving 34%.

So you save 34% and give 10% to a church? Or do you not give shit to a church. I thought so.

And that is a concern of your why? Let's say I give more than 10% to charities. Is that enough for you?

You can tell us you make and give as much as you want.

 

[sealybobo]

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

I think CZERNOBOG is.

 

[ding]

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

In some ways yes.

Which ways?

 

[Mudda]

You mean you didn't come here looking for a fight?

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

You're attributing the first cause to an invisible being for which you have no proof. And it "must be eternal"? You've proven no such thing. "God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else" unproven, equals very low standards.

 

[ding]

We'd end up like you.

Happy and saving 10℅ of my income

Happier and saving 34%.

So you save 34% and give 10% to a church? Or do you not give shit to a church. I thought so.

And that is a concern of your why? Let's say I give more than 10% to charities. Is that enough for you?

You can tell us you make and give as much as you want.

Yes, just like you can tell us save as much as you want. What's your point? That we are on an honor system? Yes. It would seem to be the case.

 

[ding]

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

I think CZERNOBOG is.

He isn't.

 

[Mudda]

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

I think CZERNOBOG is.

Czernobyl is a deluded atheist. Same intelligence level as dingbat.

 

[sealybobo]

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

I believe your high priest is smarter than you. That's how he gets 10% of your pay. So you might make 10% more than I do but we are even. LOL.

Oh, and you are just making another bad argument. #13

Why there is no god

Smart person X believes in god or ‘You are not qualified’.
Ad hominem + Argument from Authority.

Invisible pink unicorns exist. You’re not an expert in them, so you can’t say they don’t.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

Sir Isaac Newton, one of history’s greatest scientists, was not only intensely religious but also believed in alchemical transmutation. Alchemy is, however, fully incorrect given our modern understanding of chemistry, the atom and nucleosynthysis.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalize world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

 

[sealybobo]

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

I think CZERNOBOG is.

He isn't.

You aren't objective on this.

 

[ding]

No, I didn't. I came here for a discussion, anda debate. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

You're attributing the first cause to an invisible being for which you have no proof. And it "must be eternal"? You've proven no such thing. "God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else" unproven, equals very low standards.

No. I am attributing it to a supernatural being. I have no idea what His nature is. Our tiny little talking monkey brains can not comprehend that. The closest I can come to is a mind. Be that as it may, You have no evidence to say its not. You have no argument against anything else I have written and you have no basis for your beliefs. Thus proving the title of the OP, that atheism is an intellectual dead end.

 

[Mudda]

Rather than argue or defend he's resorting to making us feel bad for attacking their illogical position

What is illogical? The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else. These are not illogical beliefs. These are logical beliefs.

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

You're attributing the first cause to an invisible being for which you have no proof. And it "must be eternal"? You've proven no such thing. "God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else" unproven, equals very low standards.

No. I am attributing it to a supernatural being. I have no idea what His nature is. Our tiny little talking monkey brains can not comprehend that. The closest I can come to is a mind. Be that as it may, You have no evidence to say its not. You have no argument against anything else I have written and you have no basis for your beliefs. Thus proving the title of the OP, that atheism is an intellectual dead end.

That's why I'm not an atheist, they are as deluded as you are. You both have no proof for your claims.

 

[sealybobo]

According to you, ignorance = god

As in, you don't know how the universe started, so god is as good an answer as anything, so you say. Sheesh, those ultra low standards again.

Was that the best you could do at mocking it? Try again....

The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. Thus the universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I hope your level of intelligence isn't the pinnacle.

Do you believe that you are more intelligent than me?

I think CZERNOBOG is.

Czernobyl is a deluded atheist. Same intelligence level as dingbat.

Since you declare agnosticism more logical, I think we can debate that. I understand that you think we, who declare ourselves atheist, are tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because none of the thousands of god concepts currently in our culture(s) can be considered reasonable doesn't mean that a reasonable concept of god can't exist. Just because none of the gods invented thus far are real doesn't mean that there isn't really a god.

If that's a fair (grossly simplified, though it must be) assessment, then I counter with the assertion that atheism is more logical, because it assumes the least of all the potential positions. Humans have a 'cause' fetish that is understandable when one understands our brains and evolution. Atheism is the most logical position in light of a proper understanding of the natural world and universe. As I understand nature, there's nothing for a god to do.

It is logical to assume a causative agent when considering the interactions our brains were 'designed' to comprehend (the social ones), but that mode of thinking does not apply universally. It would be most illogical to assume that it should.