atheism and its follower are not bright

[turzovka]

Why does it have to be a God? And has this God ever visited? Let's establish that first.

Picaro is a difficult ally here because he claims agnosticism, but still we seem to agree on much that we reject of the evolutionists’ claims of fact.

To answer your question in brief terms, Jesus said in Scripture “if you will not believe in my words, then believe in the works that I do.” In other words, Jesus performed great signs and wonders (read: miracles) that created no doubt in the witnesses. They knew what they observed was not of this world. The great miracle of course being his own death and resurrection. It was this what gave His early disciples no doubt that Jesus was from God, and God incarnate.

Subsequently in history, God has performed countless great signs and wonders that left no doubt to the witnesses. These signs that bolstered the faith of the believers and challenged the unbeliever.

Fatima, Lourdes, the 250,000 Egyptians who saw the Virgin Mary herself atop a cathedral in Zeitoun on more than 20 nights in 1968, the wooden statue of Mary that wept human tears or tears of blood on 101 occasions beginning in 1973 in a convent in Akita, Japan, the stigmata of saints including Padre Pio who was examined by medical doctors countless times over the 50 years his stigmata remained until the last month of his life when it mysteriously disappeared and left no scars upon his death in 1968, the Shroud of Turin despite the skeptics wishes has no scientific explanations for the incredible qualities contained on that cloth that science still cannot duplicate much less some medieval forger dream up and create in the 1500s, and then there are countless eye witnesses to disturbing Catholic exorcisms where a possessed child speaks in the most frightful guttural language and profanity, where the child speaks Latin and other languages it has no knowledge of and also speaks of events in the witnesses’ past he or she could never have known. Is everyone a liar? Is that how this is all so easily dismissed? We believe in God because we believe in the works that He has revealed.

My point is simple: I contend there is a host of empirical evidence for the God of the Bible and once that is conceded it is the most logical extension to concede God had His hand in the creation of life as well.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Another hilarious fact is how these 'scientific facts' are suspiciously and amazingly very similar to the 'garden of Eden' allegory and the 'big bang theory' is another rip off of the God creation allegory. We already had Genesis; don't need another plagiarism of it masquerading as a 'scientific fact'. You know, the 'warm pond theory', big bang theory' thing? Of course you don't recognize the rip off ...

But hey, if any of the fashion victims here want to take a shot at Aquina's Five Ways, we're all here to encourage the 'rationalists' in their great demonstration of their Superior 'intellects' n stuff. Nobody will turn down a good laugh.

Perhaps...

In the grand scheme of things it matters not how we got here when deciding if an ancient Arab family sired by an ancient Arab named Abraham was truly singled out by God to be His chosen people and be His tools on earth seeking righteousness.


Personally I find the story of humanity crawling out of a primordial ooze after billions of years of survival-of-the-most-fit evolution on a dog-eat-dog world to be a much more plausible match to our dog-eat-dog history, but hey... that's just my opinion.

 

[IndependantAce]

...
we are saying your are pretending to show total ignorance or purposely fooling yourself.

---
Are we not ALL ignorant about life's creation on earth & especially elsewhere?
Agnostics are simply honest about it.
Others are fooling themselves.
.

You can prove the existence of a higher power using logic

---
Logic without evidence/data is like a contraceptive for a fucked mind.
.

...
we are saying your are pretending to show total ignorance or purposely fooling yourself.

---
Are we not ALL ignorant about life's creation on earth & especially elsewhere?
Agnostics are simply honest about it.
Others are fooling themselves.
.

You can prove the existence of a higher power using logic

God is Love...

Love is Blind....

Stevie Wonder is blind...

Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

You can prove a lot with logic. Doesn't make it truth.

One would not encounter a computer and demand "evidence" that it was designed, or else postulate that it was just as likely the result of a tornado hitting a scrap yard and whipping it into a functional computer.

So assuming that human life is the result of "random chance" is far more illogical.

 

[PK1]

Another hilarious fact is how these 'scientific facts' are suspiciously and amazingly very similar to the 'garden of Eden' allegory and the 'big bang theory' is another rip off of the God creation allegory. We already had Genesis; don't need another plagiarism of it masquerading as a 'scientific fact'. You know, the 'warm pond theory', big bang theory' thing? Of course you don't recognize the rip off ...

But hey, if any of the fashion victims here want to take a shot at Aquina's Five Ways, we're all here to encourage the 'rationalists' in their great demonstration of their Superior 'intellects' n stuff. Nobody will turn down a good laugh.

---
Genesis & the OT Bible stories are a rip off of Greek mythology. For example, Zeus became the monotheistic "god".

Wanna debate Aquina's ideas? Go ahead & start ... but only if you act like an agnostic.
.

 

[IndependantAce]

Genesis & the OT Bible stories are a rip off of Greek mythology.

There is transcendent truth contained In the Bible. The Fall of Man for example is backed up by modern research revealing that a state of nature, or hunter-gatherer society is the ideal "perfect" state of man; man's "fall" was the result of greed which lead to the advent of agriculture and civilization, and removal from "Eden", his natural environment.

For example, Zeus became the monotheistic "god".

It was known there was one God, but as a result of man's "fall" men became deceived into believing there were many gods.

Polytheism is in many ways, similar to the relativism and materialism of today - today there are many "gods", celebrities on television which people "worship" or deify, and all of them are fallible mortals and often people of dubious character, much like the Greek pantheon.

Our modern, mass culture essentially has recreated a secular analogue to pagan polytheism.

 

[PK1]

One would not encounter a computer and demand "evidence" that it was designed, or else postulate that it was just as likely the result of a tornado hitting a scrap yard and whipping it into a functional computer.

So assuming that human life is the result of "random chance" is far more illogical.

---
In the case of the computer, there's no doubt (due to evidence) that the designer evolved.
.

 

[IndependantAce]

One would not encounter a computer and demand "evidence" that it was designed, or else postulate that it was just as likely the result of a tornado hitting a scrap yard and whipping it into a functional computer.

So assuming that human life is the result of "random chance" is far more illogical.

---
In the case of the computer, there's no doubt (due to evidence) that the designer evolved.
.

...through design. Much as a computer 'evolves' step by step on an assembly line, courtesy of its designer.

One has yet however to see a bunch of computer parts re-arrange themselves into a functioning computer without it's designer's intervention.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why does it have to be a God? And has this God ever visited? Let's establish that first.

Picaro is a difficult ally here because he claims agnosticism, but still we seem to agree on much that we reject of the evolutionists’ claims of fact.

To answer your question in brief terms, Jesus said in Scripture “if you will not believe in my words, then believe in the works that I do.” In other words, Jesus performed great signs and wonders (read: miracles) that created no doubt in the witnesses. They knew what they observed was not of this world. The great miracle of course being his own death and resurrection. It was this what gave His early disciples no doubt that Jesus was from God, and God incarnate.

Subsequently in history, God has performed countless great signs and wonders that left no doubt to the witnesses. These signs that bolstered the faith of the believers and challenged the unbeliever.

Fatima, Lourdes, the 250,000 Egyptians who saw the Virgin Mary herself atop a cathedral in Zeitoun on more than 20 nights in 1968, the wooden statue of Mary that wept human tears or tears of blood on 101 occasions beginning in 1973 in a convent in Akita, Japan, the stigmata of saints including Padre Pio who was examined by medical doctors countless times over the 50 years his stigmata remained until the last month of his life when it mysteriously disappeared and left no scars upon his death in 1968, the Shroud of Turin despite the skeptics wishes has no scientific explanations for the incredible qualities contained on that cloth that science still cannot duplicate much less some medieval forger dream up and create in the 1500s, and then there are countless eye witnesses to disturbing Catholic exorcisms where a possessed child speaks in the most frightful guttural language and profanity, where the child speaks Latin and other languages it has no knowledge of and also speaks of events in the witnesses’ past he or she could never have known. Is everyone a liar? Is that how this is all so easily dismissed? We believe in God because we believe in the works that He has revealed.

My point is simple: I contend there is a host of empirical evidence for the God of the Bible and once that is conceded it is the most logical extension to concede God had His hand in the creation of life as well.

Why are the ancient Arab stories the last word on God?



Do you really believe that the family sired by ancient Abraham was somehow chosen by God as special and The Torah is Divinely inspired?

The evidence points me to concluding that The Torah is story-telling, arrogance and record keeping at the dawn of Monkey business capable of preserving the written word and send it hurtling up the Timeline.

 

[AVG-JOE]

...
we are saying your are pretending to show total ignorance or purposely fooling yourself.

---
Are we not ALL ignorant about life's creation on earth & especially elsewhere?
Agnostics are simply honest about it.
Others are fooling themselves.
.

You can prove the existence of a higher power using logic

---
Logic without evidence/data is like a contraceptive for a fucked mind.
.

...
we are saying your are pretending to show total ignorance or purposely fooling yourself.

---
Are we not ALL ignorant about life's creation on earth & especially elsewhere?
Agnostics are simply honest about it.
Others are fooling themselves.
.

You can prove the existence of a higher power using logic

God is Love...

Love is Blind....

Stevie Wonder is blind...

Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

You can prove a lot with logic. Doesn't make it truth.

One would not encounter a computer and demand "evidence" that it was designed, or else postulate that it was just as likely the result of a tornado hitting a scrap yard and whipping it into a functional computer.

So assuming that human life is the result of "random chance" is far more illogical.

Assuming anything about our origins is without logic.

Our origins and our destiny... understanding that we have them is what makes us Sentient, and yet it's a fool who believes anyone who claims to actually know anything about either one.

 

[IndependantAce]

...
we are saying your are pretending to show total ignorance or purposely fooling yourself.

---
Are we not ALL ignorant about life's creation on earth & especially elsewhere?
Agnostics are simply honest about it.
Others are fooling themselves.
.

You can prove the existence of a higher power using logic

---
Logic without evidence/data is like a contraceptive for a fucked mind.
.

...
we are saying your are pretending to show total ignorance or purposely fooling yourself.

---
Are we not ALL ignorant about life's creation on earth & especially elsewhere?
Agnostics are simply honest about it.
Others are fooling themselves.
.

You can prove the existence of a higher power using logic

God is Love...

Love is Blind....

Stevie Wonder is blind...

Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

You can prove a lot with logic. Doesn't make it truth.

One would not encounter a computer and demand "evidence" that it was designed, or else postulate that it was just as likely the result of a tornado hitting a scrap yard and whipping it into a functional computer.

So assuming that human life is the result of "random chance" is far more illogical.

Assuming anything about our origins is without logic.

Our origins and our destiny... understanding that we have them is what makes us Sentient, and yet it's a fool who believes anyone who claims to actually know anything about either one.

I already demonstrated that logic makes much more of a case for a designer than not.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So... You just don't want to talk about it any more?

 

[sealybobo]

Why does it have to be a God? And has this God ever visited? Let's establish that first.

Picaro is a difficult ally here because he claims agnosticism, but still we seem to agree on much that we reject of the evolutionists’ claims of fact.

To answer your question in brief terms, Jesus said in Scripture “if you will not believe in my words, then believe in the works that I do.” In other words, Jesus performed great signs and wonders (read: miracles) that created no doubt in the witnesses. They knew what they observed was not of this world. The great miracle of course being his own death and resurrection. It was this what gave His early disciples no doubt that Jesus was from God, and God incarnate.

Subsequently in history, God has performed countless great signs and wonders that left no doubt to the witnesses. These signs that bolstered the faith of the believers and challenged the unbeliever.

Fatima, Lourdes, the 250,000 Egyptians who saw the Virgin Mary herself atop a cathedral in Zeitoun on more than 20 nights in 1968, the wooden statue of Mary that wept human tears or tears of blood on 101 occasions beginning in 1973 in a convent in Akita, Japan, the stigmata of saints including Padre Pio who was examined by medical doctors countless times over the 50 years his stigmata remained until the last month of his life when it mysteriously disappeared and left no scars upon his death in 1968, the Shroud of Turin despite the skeptics wishes has no scientific explanations for the incredible qualities contained on that cloth that science still cannot duplicate much less some medieval forger dream up and create in the 1500s, and then there are countless eye witnesses to disturbing Catholic exorcisms where a possessed child speaks in the most frightful guttural language and profanity, where the child speaks Latin and other languages it has no knowledge of and also speaks of events in the witnesses’ past he or she could never have known. Is everyone a liar? Is that how this is all so easily dismissed? We believe in God because we believe in the works that He has revealed.

My point is simple: I contend there is a host of empirical evidence for the God of the Bible and once that is conceded it is the most logical extension to concede God had His hand in the creation of life as well.

Why are the ancient Arab stories the last word on God?



Do you really believe that the family sired by ancient Abraham was somehow chosen by God as special and The Torah is Divinely inspired?

The evidence points me to concluding that The Torah is story-telling, arrogance and record keeping at the dawn of Monkey business capable of preserving the written word and send it hurtling up the Timeline.

It's so obvious. But they didn't realize that 1500 years ago when Christianity finally organized so they claimed Jesus is the Messiah the old testament prophesized. Or my theory is the 11 who started Christianity must have either been liars or maybe cult followers of a man claiming to be the Messiah. We have many today who claim to be Jesus probably a lot did back then too. The story spread around Greece and those fools baught it. And it was forced on the rest of the world through the crusades.

Imagine someone today telling you they're the son of God. Yet people believe it happened 2000 years ago? WHY?

 

[IndependantAce]

Why does it have to be a God? And has this God ever visited? Let's establish that first.

Picaro is a difficult ally here because he claims agnosticism, but still we seem to agree on much that we reject of the evolutionists’ claims of fact.

To answer your question in brief terms, Jesus said in Scripture “if you will not believe in my words, then believe in the works that I do.” In other words, Jesus performed great signs and wonders (read: miracles) that created no doubt in the witnesses. They knew what they observed was not of this world. The great miracle of course being his own death and resurrection. It was this what gave His early disciples no doubt that Jesus was from God, and God incarnate.

Subsequently in history, God has performed countless great signs and wonders that left no doubt to the witnesses. These signs that bolstered the faith of the believers and challenged the unbeliever.

Fatima, Lourdes, the 250,000 Egyptians who saw the Virgin Mary herself atop a cathedral in Zeitoun on more than 20 nights in 1968, the wooden statue of Mary that wept human tears or tears of blood on 101 occasions beginning in 1973 in a convent in Akita, Japan, the stigmata of saints including Padre Pio who was examined by medical doctors countless times over the 50 years his stigmata remained until the last month of his life when it mysteriously disappeared and left no scars upon his death in 1968, the Shroud of Turin despite the skeptics wishes has no scientific explanations for the incredible qualities contained on that cloth that science still cannot duplicate much less some medieval forger dream up and create in the 1500s, and then there are countless eye witnesses to disturbing Catholic exorcisms where a possessed child speaks in the most frightful guttural language and profanity, where the child speaks Latin and other languages it has no knowledge of and also speaks of events in the witnesses’ past he or she could never have known. Is everyone a liar? Is that how this is all so easily dismissed? We believe in God because we believe in the works that He has revealed.

My point is simple: I contend there is a host of empirical evidence for the God of the Bible and once that is conceded it is the most logical extension to concede God had His hand in the creation of life as well.

Why are the ancient Arab stories the last word on God?



Do you really believe that the family sired by ancient Abraham was somehow chosen by God as special and The Torah is Divinely inspired?

The evidence points me to concluding that The Torah is story-telling, arrogance and record keeping at the dawn of Monkey business capable of preserving the written word and send it hurtling up the Timeline.

It's so obvious. But they didn't realize that 1500 years ago when Christianity finally organized so they claimed Jesus is the Messiah the old testament prophesized. Or my theory is the 11 who started Christianity must have either been liars or maybe cult followers of a man claiming to be the Messiah. We have many today who claim to be Jesus probably a lot did back then too. The story spread around Greece and those fools baught it. And it was forced on the rest of the world through the crusades.

Imagine someone today telling you they're the son of God. Yet people believe it happened 2000 years ago? WHY?

Well hey, how many people born 2000 years ago are still worshipped by billions of people all around the world millennia later? Let alone a lowly carpenter, not even a ruler.

 

[turzovka]

And it was forced on the rest of the world through the crusades.

It was forced on no one.

And they resisted no one.

"The blood of the martyrs is the seeds of Christianity."

 

[IndependantAce]

The Crusades were primarily motivated by political and financial conquests anyway, similar to the atrocities of Josef Stalin's regime.

 

[sealybobo]

Why does it have to be a God? And has this God ever visited? Let's establish that first.

Picaro is a difficult ally here because he claims agnosticism, but still we seem to agree on much that we reject of the evolutionists’ claims of fact.

To answer your question in brief terms, Jesus said in Scripture “if you will not believe in my words, then believe in the works that I do.” In other words, Jesus performed great signs and wonders (read: miracles) that created no doubt in the witnesses. They knew what they observed was not of this world. The great miracle of course being his own death and resurrection. It was this what gave His early disciples no doubt that Jesus was from God, and God incarnate.

Subsequently in history, God has performed countless great signs and wonders that left no doubt to the witnesses. These signs that bolstered the faith of the believers and challenged the unbeliever.

Fatima, Lourdes, the 250,000 Egyptians who saw the Virgin Mary herself atop a cathedral in Zeitoun on more than 20 nights in 1968, the wooden statue of Mary that wept human tears or tears of blood on 101 occasions beginning in 1973 in a convent in Akita, Japan, the stigmata of saints including Padre Pio who was examined by medical doctors countless times over the 50 years his stigmata remained until the last month of his life when it mysteriously disappeared and left no scars upon his death in 1968, the Shroud of Turin despite the skeptics wishes has no scientific explanations for the incredible qualities contained on that cloth that science still cannot duplicate much less some medieval forger dream up and create in the 1500s, and then there are countless eye witnesses to disturbing Catholic exorcisms where a possessed child speaks in the most frightful guttural language and profanity, where the child speaks Latin and other languages it has no knowledge of and also speaks of events in the witnesses’ past he or she could never have known. Is everyone a liar? Is that how this is all so easily dismissed? We believe in God because we believe in the works that He has revealed.

My point is simple: I contend there is a host of empirical evidence for the God of the Bible and once that is conceded it is the most logical extension to concede God had His hand in the creation of life as well.

Why are the ancient Arab stories the last word on God?



Do you really believe that the family sired by ancient Abraham was somehow chosen by God as special and The Torah is Divinely inspired?

The evidence points me to concluding that The Torah is story-telling, arrogance and record keeping at the dawn of Monkey business capable of preserving the written word and send it hurtling up the Timeline.

It's so obvious. But they didn't realize that 1500 years ago when Christianity finally organized so they claimed Jesus is the Messiah the old testament prophesized. Or my theory is the 11 who started Christianity must have either been liars or maybe cult followers of a man claiming to be the Messiah. We have many today who claim to be Jesus probably a lot did back then too. The story spread around Greece and those fools baught it. And it was forced on the rest of the world through the crusades.

Imagine someone today telling you they're the son of God. Yet people believe it happened 2000 years ago? WHY?

Well hey, how many people born 2000 years ago are still worshipped by billions of people all around the world millennia later? Let alone a lowly carpenter, not even a ruler.

A lot of people believe Joseph Smith and Mohammad stories too.

I don't care if everyone believed it that wouldn't make it true.

But for the record Jews who lived among Jesus didn't buy it so who cares that it ultimately became the leading world religion. So what? If Islam overtakes us will that make it right?

Dont you realize back then there was a huge market for a religion for gentiles so Christianity was born. Non Jews would go to a synagog and they wanted a church that was easier to join. So dunk and believe was born.

 

[sealybobo]

Why does it have to be a God? And has this God ever visited? Let's establish that first.

Picaro is a difficult ally here because he claims agnosticism, but still we seem to agree on much that we reject of the evolutionists’ claims of fact.

To answer your question in brief terms, Jesus said in Scripture “if you will not believe in my words, then believe in the works that I do.” In other words, Jesus performed great signs and wonders (read: miracles) that created no doubt in the witnesses. They knew what they observed was not of this world. The great miracle of course being his own death and resurrection. It was this what gave His early disciples no doubt that Jesus was from God, and God incarnate.

Subsequently in history, God has performed countless great signs and wonders that left no doubt to the witnesses. These signs that bolstered the faith of the believers and challenged the unbeliever.

Fatima, Lourdes, the 250,000 Egyptians who saw the Virgin Mary herself atop a cathedral in Zeitoun on more than 20 nights in 1968, the wooden statue of Mary that wept human tears or tears of blood on 101 occasions beginning in 1973 in a convent in Akita, Japan, the stigmata of saints including Padre Pio who was examined by medical doctors countless times over the 50 years his stigmata remained until the last month of his life when it mysteriously disappeared and left no scars upon his death in 1968, the Shroud of Turin despite the skeptics wishes has no scientific explanations for the incredible qualities contained on that cloth that science still cannot duplicate much less some medieval forger dream up and create in the 1500s, and then there are countless eye witnesses to disturbing Catholic exorcisms where a possessed child speaks in the most frightful guttural language and profanity, where the child speaks Latin and other languages it has no knowledge of and also speaks of events in the witnesses’ past he or she could never have known. Is everyone a liar? Is that how this is all so easily dismissed? We believe in God because we believe in the works that He has revealed.

My point is simple: I contend there is a host of empirical evidence for the God of the Bible and once that is conceded it is the most logical extension to concede God had His hand in the creation of life as well.

Why are the ancient Arab stories the last word on God?



Do you really believe that the family sired by ancient Abraham was somehow chosen by God as special and The Torah is Divinely inspired?

The evidence points me to concluding that The Torah is story-telling, arrogance and record keeping at the dawn of Monkey business capable of preserving the written word and send it hurtling up the Timeline.

It's so obvious. But they didn't realize that 1500 years ago when Christianity finally organized so they claimed Jesus is the Messiah the old testament prophesized. Or my theory is the 11 who started Christianity must have either been liars or maybe cult followers of a man claiming to be the Messiah. We have many today who claim to be Jesus probably a lot did back then too. The story spread around Greece and those fools baught it. And it was forced on the rest of the world through the crusades.

Imagine someone today telling you they're the son of God. Yet people believe it happened 2000 years ago? WHY?

Well hey, how many people born 2000 years ago are still worshipped by billions of people all around the world millennia later? Let alone a lowly carpenter, not even a ruler.

Yes the story is perfect! The ultimate martyr story no doubt

 

[IndependantAce]

Not to mention, I don't understand how any intelligent adult could believe in "evolution by random chance".

That's about on par with a grown adult believing a "Ninja Turtles" cartoon is a real-life documentary.

 

[sealybobo]

The Crusades were primarily motivated by political and financial conquests anyway, similar to the atrocities of Josef Stalin's regime.

I'm not as concerned about what Hitler believed as I am what the German people believed same way I don't care what bush believed. It was the stupid American and German Christin sheep who allowed Hitler bush trump happen.

People who believe in God are easily manipulated. It's how Isis recruits nuts. With god

 

[sealybobo]

Not to mention, I don't understand how any intelligent adult could believe in "evolution by random chance".

That's about on par with a grown adult believing a "Ninja Turtles" cartoon is a real-life documentary.

I don't know about random chance but there are billions of stars in our seeable universe. Most of them have planets and moons and meteors and comits and some moons and some planets have life on them. The conditions got to be right but life happens. We are proof of it. We may even find life was on Mars billions of years before earth.

Still you will want to know what made everything. The entire universe. We will never know. But one things for sure it never visited moses Mary Mohammed or Joseph Smith