Australian teen shoots Australian police officer...but they don't have guns, right?

[2aguy]

Sorry...doesn't work that way....you guys tell us that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns....Chicago has strict gun control laws in the city....that means...according to you guys, that criminals can't get guns in chicago. Notice as well....that there are cities in states with less gun control that have lower gun murder rates than chicago...and those states have gun stores all over their states...while chicago still won't let gun stores open up inside city limits......so in states where people can carry guns, and buy guns in the state, and they don't even have to leave the state to buy guns........they have lower gun murder rates than chicago with strict gun control laws....that blows your point all to shit.....

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

We already do. We have laws on the books that mandate a background check for all purchases at licensed dealers....and it does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters.

Criminals use people with clean records to buy their guns, or criminal gun dealers sell them the guns illegally and that makes the mandated federal background checks worthless...and it will make Universal Background checks worthless too...when they are caught they are arrested.

Mass shooters.....they all either undergo all the gun control laws on the books...and then kill...or they buy their guns illegally, thereby avoiding background checks, or they steal their guns......evey single one.

For example...this guy....passed federal mandated background checks....and if you forced all gun owners to get a license...he would have either gotten the license or ignored it....and you could force all guns to be registered..and he would have registered his guns or ignored it and still shot people.

Under current law, anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime can be arrested and jailed. We have that right now without new laws.

Under current law, felons caught in possession of a gun can be arrested and jailed on the spot....we don't need any new laws to do that.

We blame the mentally ill and criminals because they are the actual people doing the killing.....90% of shooters have at least one arrest and almost all of them are career criminals. The nuts....can usually pass background checks because they are never locked up in an institution.

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close.

Sadly, they target all of their gun control at the normal people who buy guns......and ignore the real problem of criminals.....

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

So, why wouldn't you want to put in place mechanisms to prevent them from obtaining weapons?

I do...name one. I have listed the reasons that licensing all gun owners will not stop criminals or mass shooters.

I have listed why registering all guns will not work...besides not being able to do it physically, Canada tried and had to give it up with 15 million guns...it went milions over budget, used up vast manpower resources and didn't register the guns.....

Besides....did you know that in a Supreme court case from the 1930s, they decided that criminals did not have to register their illegal guns....do you know why? Because that would go against their 5th amendment right against self incrimination...

so only law abiding people could be made to register their guns...and they aren't the ones shooting people.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry...doesn't work that way....you guys tell us that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns....Chicago has strict gun control laws in the city....that means...according to you guys, that criminals can't get guns in chicago. Notice as well....that there are cities in states with less gun control that have lower gun murder rates than chicago...and those states have gun stores all over their states...while chicago still won't let gun stores open up inside city limits......so in states where people can carry guns, and buy guns in the state, and they don't even have to leave the state to buy guns........they have lower gun murder rates than chicago with strict gun control laws....that blows your point all to shit.....

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

We already do. We have laws on the books that mandate a background check for all purchases at licensed dealers....and it does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters.

Criminals use people with clean records to buy their guns, or criminal gun dealers sell them the guns illegally and that makes the mandated federal background checks worthless...and it will make Universal Background checks worthless too...when they are caught they are arrested.

Mass shooters.....they all either undergo all the gun control laws on the books...and then kill...or they buy their guns illegally, thereby avoiding background checks, or they steal their guns......evey single one.

For example...this guy....passed federal mandated background checks....and if you forced all gun owners to get a license...he would have either gotten the license or ignored it....and you could force all guns to be registered..and he would have registered his guns or ignored it and still shot people.

Under current law, anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime can be arrested and jailed. We have that right now without new laws.

Under current law, felons caught in possession of a gun can be arrested and jailed on the spot....we don't need any new laws to do that.

We blame the mentally ill and criminals because they are the actual people doing the killing.....90% of shooters have at least one arrest and almost all of them are career criminals. The nuts....can usually pass background checks because they are never locked up in an institution.

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close.

Sadly, they target all of their gun control at the normal people who buy guns......and ignore the real problem of criminals.....

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close

This is your paranoid imagination at work.

No....not really. I just realized this last week discussing the issue. The anti gunners think that normal people end up shooting people...and that isn't the case.....people who shoot and murder other people are not John Q. citizen who has a bad day....people who use guns to murder people have long histories of anti social behavior, criminal records and previous illegal gun offenses......

Normal peole do not just snap one day and shoot people.

 

[idb]

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

Currently, criminals either steal their guns, buy them illegally, or use a friend or family member with a clean record to buy their gun...

In all of these techniques they avoid the federally mandated background checks and get their guns faster than a normal person can.

Universal Background checks will be gotten around the same exact way....they will steal the guns, buy them illegally or get someone with a clean record to buy them for them........

So the anti gun activists use the term "universal background checks" as if it is going to be something new and useful....it will be useless the minute you put it on the books....

And in fact...it has already been shown to be useless...

Washington State has universal background checks....and I posted about a teenager who got a gun in this state when his father lied on the background check information form....he got around the universal background check...

Oregon just passed Universal Background checks.....and not only are they having a hard time implementing it.....the mass shooter at the 2 year college....would have passed the new and improved universal background check.

So universal background checks are pointless.

the best thing to do to stop gun crime....long prison sentences for criminals caught with guns......that is the only thing that works.

What about the ability to punish those that supply, or assist the supply, of guns to people that shouldn't have them?
Punish the person that has the illegal gun and also whoever got it for him.

Just throwing up your hands and saying "it's too hard" is no solution either.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry...doesn't work that way....you guys tell us that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns....Chicago has strict gun control laws in the city....that means...according to you guys, that criminals can't get guns in chicago. Notice as well....that there are cities in states with less gun control that have lower gun murder rates than chicago...and those states have gun stores all over their states...while chicago still won't let gun stores open up inside city limits......so in states where people can carry guns, and buy guns in the state, and they don't even have to leave the state to buy guns........they have lower gun murder rates than chicago with strict gun control laws....that blows your point all to shit.....

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

This is what I propose...criminals caught in possession of a gun....get 10 years....if they use it for a crime 20 years....

If the criminal is caught with a magazine of over 10 bullets...10 years on top of the rest.

These sentences target the actual criminals and leave normal, law abiding gun owners alone.

I have also suggested putting a mark on the left shoulder of convicted gun criminals....in this way you get the effect of the universal background check. Anti gunners want background checks for private sales, knowing that this makes it harder for normal people to sell their guns to friends and family and puts them in jeapordy of a felony if they don't....

If you put the mark on the shoulder of a gun criminal.....and you are selling a gun at a gun show, a gun store, or a private sale...you just have to look at the left shoulder of the buyer to know immediately....immediately, if they can have that gun......no universal background check is needed...you know right then and there...no paperwork to get screwed up...as happened with the South Carolina church shooter and the guy in Washington....and it actually targets criminals.

And even with that...criminals will steal their guns, or get a straw purchaser....

 

[idb]

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

We already do. We have laws on the books that mandate a background check for all purchases at licensed dealers....and it does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters.

Criminals use people with clean records to buy their guns, or criminal gun dealers sell them the guns illegally and that makes the mandated federal background checks worthless...and it will make Universal Background checks worthless too...when they are caught they are arrested.

Mass shooters.....they all either undergo all the gun control laws on the books...and then kill...or they buy their guns illegally, thereby avoiding background checks, or they steal their guns......evey single one.

For example...this guy....passed federal mandated background checks....and if you forced all gun owners to get a license...he would have either gotten the license or ignored it....and you could force all guns to be registered..and he would have registered his guns or ignored it and still shot people.

Under current law, anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime can be arrested and jailed. We have that right now without new laws.

Under current law, felons caught in possession of a gun can be arrested and jailed on the spot....we don't need any new laws to do that.

We blame the mentally ill and criminals because they are the actual people doing the killing.....90% of shooters have at least one arrest and almost all of them are career criminals. The nuts....can usually pass background checks because they are never locked up in an institution.

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close.

Sadly, they target all of their gun control at the normal people who buy guns......and ignore the real problem of criminals.....

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close

This is your paranoid imagination at work.

No....not really. I just realized this last week discussing the issue. The anti gunners think that normal people end up shooting people...and that isn't the case.....people who shoot and murder other people are not John Q. citizen who has a bad day....people who use guns to murder people have long histories of anti social behavior, criminal records and previous illegal gun offenses......

Normal peole do not just snap one day and shoot people.

So, why wouldn't you want to try to ensure that guns only go to John Q Citizen...and not The Beagle Boys?

 

[2aguy]

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

Currently, criminals either steal their guns, buy them illegally, or use a friend or family member with a clean record to buy their gun...

In all of these techniques they avoid the federally mandated background checks and get their guns faster than a normal person can.

Universal Background checks will be gotten around the same exact way....they will steal the guns, buy them illegally or get someone with a clean record to buy them for them........

So the anti gun activists use the term "universal background checks" as if it is going to be something new and useful....it will be useless the minute you put it on the books....

And in fact...it has already been shown to be useless...

Washington State has universal background checks....and I posted about a teenager who got a gun in this state when his father lied on the background check information form....he got around the universal background check...

Oregon just passed Universal Background checks.....and not only are they having a hard time implementing it.....the mass shooter at the 2 year college....would have passed the new and improved universal background check.

So universal background checks are pointless.

the best thing to do to stop gun crime....long prison sentences for criminals caught with guns......that is the only thing that works.

What about the ability to punish those that supply, or assist the supply, of guns to people that shouldn't have them?
Punish the person that has the illegal gun and also whoever got it for him.

Just throwing up your hands and saying "it's too hard" is no solution either.

Guns are differnet than drugs...guns are a legal product. Drugs aren't. Why do you want to punish someone who sells a gun to a friend who isn't a criminal and who doesn't use the gun for a crime? That is what your idea would do.

right now...with current law...we can find the guys supplying guns to criminals by getting the criminal to give up his source...just like we do for drugs. Same police technique....and then you can arrest them.

As for gun shows.....I have posted several times...devote police resources to undercover officers going in and trying to buy and sell guns, and you wait for the guys who say they can't pass a background check....you sell them the gun...and arrest them.....

You go to the vendors and have the undercover police officer try to buy a gun and tell the seller he can't pass a background check...if the seller goes ahead with the sale....you arrest them......

Those are how I would deal with the problem.

Do they make sense?

 

[Rotagilla]

Sorry...doesn't work that way....you guys tell us that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns....Chicago has strict gun control laws in the city....that means...according to you guys, that criminals can't get guns in chicago. Notice as well....that there are cities in states with less gun control that have lower gun murder rates than chicago...and those states have gun stores all over their states...while chicago still won't let gun stores open up inside city limits......so in states where people can carry guns, and buy guns in the state, and they don't even have to leave the state to buy guns........they have lower gun murder rates than chicago with strict gun control laws....that blows your point all to shit.....

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

That's a weak argument...
This has nothing to do with me or what I might or might not "accept".

 

[jon_berzerk]

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

This is what I propose...criminals caught in possession of a gun....get 10 years....if they use it for a crime 20 years....

If the criminal is caught with a magazine of over 10 bullets...10 years on top of the rest.

These sentences target the actual criminals and leave normal, law abiding gun owners alone.

I have also suggested putting a mark on the left shoulder of convicted gun criminals....in this way you get the effect of the universal background check. Anti gunners want background checks for private sales, knowing that this makes it harder for normal people to sell their guns to friends and family and puts them in jeapordy of a felony if they don't....

If you put the mark on the shoulder of a gun criminal.....and you are selling a gun at a gun show, a gun store, or a private sale...you just have to look at the left shoulder of the buyer to know immediately....immediately, if they can have that gun......no universal background check is needed...you know right then and there...no paperwork to get screwed up...as happened with the South Carolina church shooter and the guy in Washington....and it actually targets criminals.

And even with that...criminals will steal their guns, or get a straw purchaser....

how about if we put criminals away regardless of the firearm or not

if they are a felon in possession of a firearm then additional charges and time

 

[idb]

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

This is what I propose...criminals caught in possession of a gun....get 10 years....if they use it for a crime 20 years....

If the criminal is caught with a magazine of over 10 bullets...10 years on top of the rest.

These sentences target the actual criminals and leave normal, law abiding gun owners alone.

I have also suggested putting a mark on the left shoulder of convicted gun criminals....in this way you get the effect of the universal background check. Anti gunners want background checks for private sales, knowing that this makes it harder for normal people to sell their guns to friends and family and puts them in jeapordy of a felony if they don't....

If you put the mark on the shoulder of a gun criminal.....and you are selling a gun at a gun show, a gun store, or a private sale...you just have to look at the left shoulder of the buyer to know immediately....immediately, if they can have that gun......no universal background check is needed...you know right then and there...no paperwork to get screwed up...as happened with the South Carolina church shooter and the guy in Washington....and it actually targets criminals.

And even with that...criminals will steal their guns, or get a straw purchaser....

Or, you could have universal background checks where the seller has to sight the purchaser's licence.
That way, the seller also has some legal responsibility.

 

[2aguy]

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

We already do. We have laws on the books that mandate a background check for all purchases at licensed dealers....and it does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters.

Criminals use people with clean records to buy their guns, or criminal gun dealers sell them the guns illegally and that makes the mandated federal background checks worthless...and it will make Universal Background checks worthless too...when they are caught they are arrested.

Mass shooters.....they all either undergo all the gun control laws on the books...and then kill...or they buy their guns illegally, thereby avoiding background checks, or they steal their guns......evey single one.

For example...this guy....passed federal mandated background checks....and if you forced all gun owners to get a license...he would have either gotten the license or ignored it....and you could force all guns to be registered..and he would have registered his guns or ignored it and still shot people.

Under current law, anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime can be arrested and jailed. We have that right now without new laws.

Under current law, felons caught in possession of a gun can be arrested and jailed on the spot....we don't need any new laws to do that.

We blame the mentally ill and criminals because they are the actual people doing the killing.....90% of shooters have at least one arrest and almost all of them are career criminals. The nuts....can usually pass background checks because they are never locked up in an institution.

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close.

Sadly, they target all of their gun control at the normal people who buy guns......and ignore the real problem of criminals.....

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close

This is your paranoid imagination at work.

No....not really. I just realized this last week discussing the issue. The anti gunners think that normal people end up shooting people...and that isn't the case.....people who shoot and murder other people are not John Q. citizen who has a bad day....people who use guns to murder people have long histories of anti social behavior, criminal records and previous illegal gun offenses......

Normal peole do not just snap one day and shoot people.

So, why wouldn't you want to try to ensure that guns only go to John Q Citizen...and not The Beagle Boys?

John Q. Citizen isn't selling lots of guns to other people....so why focus on them. If he sells a gun to a neighbor, and the neighbor can't legally have the gun..when you catch the neighbor with the gun arrest them. The guy is the one who knows he can't have the gun.

When you have a gun trafficker...selling guns to known criminals in large quantities...use standard police techniques we already have......and lock them up....

We just caught a gun trafficker in Chicago this week...he was trying to sell 43 guns to gangs in the city......he was caught with standard police work....an informant gave him up...no need to license all gun owners, no need to register all guns, no background check....

And do you know how much time he got.......3 years......he will be out in less than 2.

 

[Rotagilla]

Sorry...doesn't work that way....you guys tell us that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns....Chicago has strict gun control laws in the city....that means...according to you guys, that criminals can't get guns in chicago. Notice as well....that there are cities in states with less gun control that have lower gun murder rates than chicago...and those states have gun stores all over their states...while chicago still won't let gun stores open up inside city limits......so in states where people can carry guns, and buy guns in the state, and they don't even have to leave the state to buy guns........they have lower gun murder rates than chicago with strict gun control laws....that blows your point all to shit.....

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

We already do. We have laws on the books that mandate a background check for all purchases at licensed dealers....and it does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters.

Criminals use people with clean records to buy their guns, or criminal gun dealers sell them the guns illegally and that makes the mandated federal background checks worthless...and it will make Universal Background checks worthless too...when they are caught they are arrested.

Mass shooters.....they all either undergo all the gun control laws on the books...and then kill...or they buy their guns illegally, thereby avoiding background checks, or they steal their guns......evey single one.

For example...this guy....passed federal mandated background checks....and if you forced all gun owners to get a license...he would have either gotten the license or ignored it....and you could force all guns to be registered..and he would have registered his guns or ignored it and still shot people.

Under current law, anyone who uses a gun to commit a crime can be arrested and jailed. We have that right now without new laws.

Under current law, felons caught in possession of a gun can be arrested and jailed on the spot....we don't need any new laws to do that.

We blame the mentally ill and criminals because they are the actual people doing the killing.....90% of shooters have at least one arrest and almost all of them are career criminals. The nuts....can usually pass background checks because they are never locked up in an institution.

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

That is where the anti gun crowd gets it wrong......they see anyone who wants to own a gun as being the same as actual criminal murderers...but they are not the same, not even close.

Sadly, they target all of their gun control at the normal people who buy guns......and ignore the real problem of criminals.....

Law abiding, normal people are not going out and shooting people simply because they buy a gun. Almost all shooters have long records of crime and violence...they are not normal people.

So, why wouldn't you want to put in place mechanisms to prevent them from obtaining weapons?

having criminal records prevents them from owning guns...so they'll buy them black market or trade drugs for them or steal them...maybe we should make stealing against the law...wait...never mind...that is a law...
maybe the criminals don't know it's against the LAW?...maybe if we just told them to stop they would?...LMAO...

 

[idb]

Who says that gun control laws stop criminals from getting guns?

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

That's a weak argument...
This has nothing to do with me or what I might or might not "accept".

I'm interested in whether you would even consider any form of gun control...if not, as many won't, there's no point in continuing the discussion.
I suggested one option.
If you don't like that one, do you have any ideas?

 

[2aguy]

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

This is what I propose...criminals caught in possession of a gun....get 10 years....if they use it for a crime 20 years....

If the criminal is caught with a magazine of over 10 bullets...10 years on top of the rest.

These sentences target the actual criminals and leave normal, law abiding gun owners alone.

I have also suggested putting a mark on the left shoulder of convicted gun criminals....in this way you get the effect of the universal background check. Anti gunners want background checks for private sales, knowing that this makes it harder for normal people to sell their guns to friends and family and puts them in jeapordy of a felony if they don't....

If you put the mark on the shoulder of a gun criminal.....and you are selling a gun at a gun show, a gun store, or a private sale...you just have to look at the left shoulder of the buyer to know immediately....immediately, if they can have that gun......no universal background check is needed...you know right then and there...no paperwork to get screwed up...as happened with the South Carolina church shooter and the guy in Washington....and it actually targets criminals.

And even with that...criminals will steal their guns, or get a straw purchaser....

Or, you could have universal background checks where the seller has to sight the purchaser's licence.
That way, the seller also has some legal responsibility.

Right now....criminals use people with clean records to buy their guns, or they steal them. They will get people with clean records...who will get a license, and then buy the gun and give it or sell it to the gang member....reporting it stolen or lost to avoid getting caught.

My idea.....put a mark on their left or right shoulder......it won't stop straw purchases, but it will stop John Q. Citizen from selling his gun to a criminal...he just has to ask to see his shoulder....and he will know immediately that the guy can't buy the gun......dittos for gun shows and gun stores.

 

[2aguy]

why is the left so intent on passing MORE laws, then?

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

That's a weak argument...
This has nothing to do with me or what I might or might not "accept".

I'm interested in whether you would even consider any form of gun control...if not, as many won't, there's no point in continuing the discussion.
I suggested one option.
If you don't like that one, do you have any ideas?

We have gun control....felons can't own or carry guns. People who use guns to commit crimes can be arrested.

Chicago has strict gun control laws, dittos all the major cities...their criminals get guns....what gun control law do you think they can't get around by stealing their guns?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

So, why wouldn't you want to try to ensure that guns only go to John Q Citizen...and not The Beagle Boys?

WONDERFUL! I'm all for just such a program, and fully support instituting such a program, the INSTANT that Leftists are removed from the US Federal government and banned from ever participating in such in the future, with the penalty for being elected or appointed to any position in government, and being found to harbor collectivist notions being punished by summary execution.

Until then, given the deceitful and decidedly relativist notions intrinsic to Left-think... there's no basis on which any level of trust could ever be established to allow such a program to exist.

 

[idb]

Maybe...just maybe they want to have a mechanism to restrict access to guns by the wrong people.
It can't be a perfect law, none ever are, but advocates of unrestricted access to guns are always blaming the mentally ill and criminals for most of the gun violence in the US.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to restrict access to those people while still allowing law-abiding folk to own guns?
Again, I say, it won't be perfect but at least it allows some means of scrutiny of the recipients of weapons.

what new laws would you propose?

How about universal background checks as a start?
Does it matter though, would you accept any suggestions at all?

Currently, criminals either steal their guns, buy them illegally, or use a friend or family member with a clean record to buy their gun...

In all of these techniques they avoid the federally mandated background checks and get their guns faster than a normal person can.

Universal Background checks will be gotten around the same exact way....they will steal the guns, buy them illegally or get someone with a clean record to buy them for them........

So the anti gun activists use the term "universal background checks" as if it is going to be something new and useful....it will be useless the minute you put it on the books....

And in fact...it has already been shown to be useless...

Washington State has universal background checks....and I posted about a teenager who got a gun in this state when his father lied on the background check information form....he got around the universal background check...

Oregon just passed Universal Background checks.....and not only are they having a hard time implementing it.....the mass shooter at the 2 year college....would have passed the new and improved universal background check.

So universal background checks are pointless.

the best thing to do to stop gun crime....long prison sentences for criminals caught with guns......that is the only thing that works.

What about the ability to punish those that supply, or assist the supply, of guns to people that shouldn't have them?
Punish the person that has the illegal gun and also whoever got it for him.

Just throwing up your hands and saying "it's too hard" is no solution either.

Guns are differnet than drugs...guns are a legal product. Drugs aren't. Why do you want to punish someone who sells a gun to a friend who isn't a criminal and who doesn't use the gun for a crime? That is what your idea would do.

right now...with current law...we can find the guys supplying guns to criminals by getting the criminal to give up his source...just like we do for drugs. Same police technique....and then you can arrest them.

As for gun shows.....I have posted several times...devote police resources to undercover officers going in and trying to buy and sell guns, and you wait for the guys who say they can't pass a background check....you sell them the gun...and arrest them.....

You go to the vendors and have the undercover police officer try to buy a gun and tell the seller he can't pass a background check...if the seller goes ahead with the sale....you arrest them......

Those are how I would deal with the problem.

Do they make sense?

Guns are differnet than drugs...guns are a legal product. Drugs aren't. Why do you want to punish someone who sells a gun to a friend who isn't a criminal and who doesn't use the gun for a crime? That is what your idea would do.

I suppose it would.
Best that the guy ensure that his friend is licensed to own a gun then.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wow...didn't hear about this during obama's press conference..of course it happened after he made a fool of himself...but bad timing. did the Iranian teen not realize that obama just told everyone that Australian gun laws kept shootings from happening....I mean..if the teen, suspected of terrorism, can shoot one police officer, then he could have shot more people........right?

But....How did a teenager get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia?

the kid is 15 years old...how did he get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia....I thought you anti gun extremists said they solved this...and here we have a 15 year old killing a police officer...

See...I have oointed out in post after post that criminals and mass shooters can get guns easily in any country.

Britain just caught a 19 year old planning on shooting up the university that kicked him out....je got a pistol and over 90 rounds with extended magazines...as well as pipe bombs...and he said geting the weapon and bombs was as easy as buying chocolates....

so how did a 19 year old get a gun in extreme gun controlled Britain?

Europe and Australia are behind the U.S. In mass shootimgs...but as it was pointed out...they have crazy people too....and with the media attention and fame our mass shooters get...that is going to travel over seas...and their crazies are going to start shooting people too....

and like this Iranian kid in Austtalia.....they also have terrorists...

Teen's Slaying Of Australian Police Worker 'Linked To Terror'

Death by firearm per capita is 12 times higher in the U.S.


And in the U.S., its highest in the states with the least gun regulation

 

[2aguy]

Wow...didn't hear about this during obama's press conference..of course it happened after he made a fool of himself...but bad timing. did the Iranian teen not realize that obama just told everyone that Australian gun laws kept shootings from happening....I mean..if the teen, suspected of terrorism, can shoot one police officer, then he could have shot more people........right?

But....How did a teenager get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia?

the kid is 15 years old...how did he get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia....I thought you anti gun extremists said they solved this...and here we have a 15 year old killing a police officer...

See...I have oointed out in post after post that criminals and mass shooters can get guns easily in any country.

Britain just caught a 19 year old planning on shooting up the university that kicked him out....je got a pistol and over 90 rounds with extended magazines...as well as pipe bombs...and he said geting the weapon and bombs was as easy as buying chocolates....

so how did a 19 year old get a gun in extreme gun controlled Britain?

Europe and Australia are behind the U.S. In mass shootimgs...but as it was pointed out...they have crazy people too....and with the media attention and fame our mass shooters get...that is going to travel over seas...and their crazies are going to start shooting people too....

and like this Iranian kid in Austtalia.....they also have terrorists...

Teen's Slaying Of Australian Police Worker 'Linked To Terror'

Death by firearm per capita is 12 times higher in the U.S.


And in the U.S., its highest in the states with the least gun regulation

sorry, we have been through that before...the anti gunners pushing that meme get their numbers up by adding suicides to the mix...the majority of the gun deaths in their "study" is suicides.......look for the threads where this was discussed.......

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wow...didn't hear about this during obama's press conference..of course it happened after he made a fool of himself...but bad timing. did the Iranian teen not realize that obama just told everyone that Australian gun laws kept shootings from happening....I mean..if the teen, suspected of terrorism, can shoot one police officer, then he could have shot more people........right?

But....How did a teenager get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia?

the kid is 15 years old...how did he get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia....I thought you anti gun extremists said they solved this...and here we have a 15 year old killing a police officer...

See...I have oointed out in post after post that criminals and mass shooters can get guns easily in any country.

Britain just caught a 19 year old planning on shooting up the university that kicked him out....je got a pistol and over 90 rounds with extended magazines...as well as pipe bombs...and he said geting the weapon and bombs was as easy as buying chocolates....

so how did a 19 year old get a gun in extreme gun controlled Britain?

Europe and Australia are behind the U.S. In mass shootimgs...but as it was pointed out...they have crazy people too....and with the media attention and fame our mass shooters get...that is going to travel over seas...and their crazies are going to start shooting people too....

and like this Iranian kid in Austtalia.....they also have terrorists...

Teen's Slaying Of Australian Police Worker 'Linked To Terror'

Death by firearm per capita is 12 times higher in the U.S.


And in the U.S., its highest in the states with the least gun regulation

sorry, we have been through that before...the anti gunners pushing that meme get their numbers up by adding suicides to the mix...the majority of the gun deaths in their "study" is suicides.......look for the threads where this was discussed.......

Im sorry, I dont see your point. Are you claiming suicide doesn't result in death?

 

[Rotagilla]

Wow...didn't hear about this during obama's press conference..of course it happened after he made a fool of himself...but bad timing. did the Iranian teen not realize that obama just told everyone that Australian gun laws kept shootings from happening....I mean..if the teen, suspected of terrorism, can shoot one police officer, then he could have shot more people........right?

But....How did a teenager get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia?

the kid is 15 years old...how did he get a gun in extreme gun controlled Australia....I thought you anti gun extremists said they solved this...and here we have a 15 year old killing a police officer...

See...I have oointed out in post after post that criminals and mass shooters can get guns easily in any country.

Britain just caught a 19 year old planning on shooting up the university that kicked him out....je got a pistol and over 90 rounds with extended magazines...as well as pipe bombs...and he said geting the weapon and bombs was as easy as buying chocolates....

so how did a 19 year old get a gun in extreme gun controlled Britain?

Europe and Australia are behind the U.S. In mass shootimgs...but as it was pointed out...they have crazy people too....and with the media attention and fame our mass shooters get...that is going to travel over seas...and their crazies are going to start shooting people too....

and like this Iranian kid in Austtalia.....they also have terrorists...

Teen's Slaying Of Australian Police Worker 'Linked To Terror'

Death by firearm per capita is 12 times higher in the U.S.


And in the U.S., its highest in the states with the least gun regulation

sorry, we have been through that before...the anti gunners pushing that meme get their numbers up by adding suicides to the mix...the majority of the gun deaths in their "study" is suicides.......look for the threads where this was discussed.......

Im sorry, I dont see your point. Are you claiming suicide doesn't result in death?

are you claiming that suicide is the same as murdering other people?