Austrialians forced to answer intrusive "census" questions at gunpoint.

[FA_Q2]

[

they had the stats compiled by the FBI and local police.....the people on the panel were Chiefs of Police and DA's from various cities.....there was like 10 of them....it was on Gun Violence in California ......ill go by what they say Joe....you cant tell me that shootings by Gangs weekly in the Country dont add up to some pretty good numbers.....gun violence by Gangs adds a lot to the numbers....

"In any given year from 2002 to 2009, from 1,000 to 1,300 gang-related homicides are documented and reported in the largest cities in the NYGS."

We have 15,000 homicides a year (11,000 of them with guns). Gang violence makes up less than 10% of them.

How many gang related deaths occur within the US each year

Moving the goalposts? I have done no such thing. You claimed that gangs did not matter, I am showing you that half of all crime is perpetrated by gang members and that spikes much higher in several areas. Further, you use wiki answers? Really, try going to the source. 10% is an outright lie.

Only 15 percent of homicides have no connection to gang activity. At best, 17% are highly related and that is almost double what you are claiming. It is still the number one driver as far as crime rates go.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are you implying that the choice to own a gun is somehow a threat to the civil rights of a person who does not choose to own a gun?

Yes.

We have discussed this before and I do not mean to insult you personally as a gun owner, but statistically those living in a home where firearms are kept are more at risk than those who do not.

So then homes with swimming pools are a threat to one's civil rights because statistically you are more likely to drown.

 

[OriginalShroom]

I will simply say this..

The owner of the company I work for received a Business census form earlier this year.

In large letters it said that he was required by law to fill it out and return it to the Feds.

 

[Harry Dresden]

[

Joe learn to read.....i have been saying GUN VIOLENCE .....that not only includes deaths it includes people who were shot but did not die or just gangs shooting at each other.....the panel i was listening too also said there are many shootings that they cant outright classify as "gang related"......but they know it was gang motivated or related......you say i am just echoing what the Pro gunners say......well it seems you are just echoing what the Anti gunners say.....but all in all what i have been saying still stands.....NO ONE it seems wants to deal with the REAL gun nuts in this society.....GANGS and the criminal element out there.....

Guy, the thing is, we lock up 2 million people.

The UK locks up 78,000.
Germany locks up 78,000
Japan locks up 69,000

It seems that the notion that, "We just need to lock up them Gangbangers" and all will be well is a fallacy. We lock up a shitload of people. We have 2 million in prison and another 7 million on parole or probation.

If guns and prisons make us safer, why are we so scared?

Guy, the thing is, we lock up 2 million people.

yea and a great many of them should not be.....meanwhile many of the ones who should be are walking around free......

"We just need to lock up them Gangbangers" and all will be well is a fallacy. We lock up a shitload of people.

Joe lots of Gangers and violent criminals get some pretty light sentences.... meanwhile someone who got caught with a small quantity of pot is locked up for 20 fucking years......
just last week some guy who beat the hell out of a guy out here.....and it was his fault....got 5 years....and will probably be out in 2.....


If guns and prisons make us safer, why are we so scared?

who is scared?.....the only ones i think are scared are the Anti-Gun people....but they are targeting the wrong crowd....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Okay, we weren't talking about "violent crime", guy.

Quit trying to m ove the goalposts.

We were talking about GUN DEATHS.

We had 31,000 gun deaths a year, 11,000 of those homicides. According to the FBI, gang activity, which is pretty broadly defined, such as even being in a gang, only accounts for 1000-1300 of those a year.

no you were talking about gun deaths....i was and always have been talking about gun violence in this thread and elsewhere....you only mentioned this now is because gun violence does not back up what you have said....."gangs dont matter much".....i havent moved no goal posts....but i think you just did.....just sayin....

 

[9thIDdoc]

It's the logical next step after disarming the citizens. Who is going to stop them from doing whatever they want?

LOL. You are a laugh a minute. We don't have people bitching and whining about the fact they can't walk around with a gun. We are not paranoid sons of bitches like you lot.

No? Then why are you worried about people having guns?

 

[idb]

Gun crime and freedom is NOT measured in isolated incidents like mass shootings....but then, you knew that. Or you should have known that.

Good morning to you.

Stop saying we have lost our freedom, because we haven't. Like I said, we are not paranoid fucks like you lot. We are happy to have given up our guns because we have prevented another massacre. Unlike you lot. You keep going on like you have been, in a 100 years, Americans will be extinct.

you never answered my question Noomi.....why doesnt your Govt trust law abiding Aussies to own a gun or two?.....what are they afraid of?....

My understanding is that Australians can, and do, own guns.
I'm not sure where the "Government has taken away their guns" meme comes from.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Stop saying we have lost our freedom, because we haven't. Like I said, we are not paranoid fucks like you lot. We are happy to have given up our guns because we have prevented another massacre. Unlike you lot. You keep going on like you have been, in a 100 years, Americans will be extinct.

you never answered my question Noomi.....why doesnt your Govt trust law abiding Aussies to own a gun or two?.....what are they afraid of?....

My understanding is that Australians can, and do, own guns.
I'm not sure where the "Government has taken away their guns" meme comes from.

i was told by the Aussies on another board that only ranchers and farmers can.....a few of them told me theirs were taken away.....they did not willingly give them away...

 

[idb]

you never answered my question Noomi.....why doesnt your Govt trust law abiding Aussies to own a gun or two?.....what are they afraid of?....

My understanding is that Australians can, and do, own guns.
I'm not sure where the "Government has taken away their guns" meme comes from.

i was told by the Aussies on another board that only ranchers and farmers can.....a few of them told me theirs were taken away.....they did not willingly give them away...

They are referring to semi-automatics.
Anyone can own a gun, as long as it's not intended for self-defense.
There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#References

State laws govern the possession and use of firearms in Australia. These laws were largely aligned under the 1996 National Agreement on Firearms. Anyone wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearms Licence and, with some exceptions, be over the age of 18. Owners must have secure storage for their firearms.

Before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g., Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.[2]

Each firearm in Australia must be registered to the owner by serial number. Some states allow an owner to store or borrow another person's registered firearm of the same category.

 

[Harry Dresden]

My understanding is that Australians can, and do, own guns.
I'm not sure where the "Government has taken away their guns" meme comes from.

i was told by the Aussies on another board that only ranchers and farmers can.....a few of them told me theirs were taken away.....they did not willingly give them away...

They are referring to semi-automatics.
Anyone can own a gun, as long as it's not intended for self-defense.
There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.
Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State laws govern the possession and use of firearms in Australia. These laws were largely aligned under the 1996 National Agreement on Firearms. Anyone wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearms Licence and, with some exceptions, be over the age of 18. Owners must have secure storage for their firearms.

Before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g., Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.[2]

Each firearm in Australia must be registered to the owner by serial number. Some states allow an owner to store or borrow another person's registered firearm of the same category.

For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.

you cant own a gun unless its for what the Govt SAYS you can own one for.........so basically it sounds like what the Aussies told me is true....YOU cant own a gun.....

There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.

i dont think so....

 

[idb]

i was told by the Aussies on another board that only ranchers and farmers can.....a few of them told me theirs were taken away.....they did not willingly give them away...

They are referring to semi-automatics.
Anyone can own a gun, as long as it's not intended for self-defense.
There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.
Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State laws govern the possession and use of firearms in Australia. These laws were largely aligned under the 1996 National Agreement on Firearms. Anyone wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearms Licence and, with some exceptions, be over the age of 18. Owners must have secure storage for their firearms.

Before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g., Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.[2]

Each firearm in Australia must be registered to the owner by serial number. Some states allow an owner to store or borrow another person's registered firearm of the same category.

For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.

you cant own a gun unless its for what the Govt SAYS you can own one for.........so basically it sounds like what the Aussies told me is true....YOU cant own a gun.....

There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.

i dont think so....

I don't know what they've told you on the other board.
If you want a gun for anything other than self-defence then you can get one.
If they told you that 'only ranchers and farmers' can own one then they're wrong.

 

[candycorn]

For the conservative; content=credibility. Remember 7 months ago? Unskewedpolls.com predicted a Romney Landslide and these morons were sucking it up. Very little reason to believe anything they say based on their citation of moronic articles.

 

[candycorn]

[

Joe learn to read.....i have been saying GUN VIOLENCE .....that not only includes deaths it includes people who were shot but did not die or just gangs shooting at each other.....the panel i was listening too also said there are many shootings that they cant outright classify as "gang related"......but they know it was gang motivated or related......you say i am just echoing what the Pro gunners say......well it seems you are just echoing what the Anti gunners say.....but all in all what i have been saying still stands.....NO ONE it seems wants to deal with the REAL gun nuts in this society.....GANGS and the criminal element out there.....

Guy, the thing is, we lock up 2 million people.

The UK locks up 78,000.
Germany locks up 78,000
Japan locks up 69,000

It seems that the notion that, "We just need to lock up them Gangbangers" and all will be well is a fallacy. We lock up a shitload of people. We have 2 million in prison and another 7 million on parole or probation.

If guns and prisons make us safer, why are we so scared?

We should be the safest nation on earth if guns supposedly keep you safer. Yet the statistics consistently prove those who parrot such nonsense wrong.

 

[Harry Dresden]

They are referring to semi-automatics.
Anyone can own a gun, as long as it's not intended for self-defense.
There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.
Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.

you cant own a gun unless its for what the Govt SAYS you can own one for.........so basically it sounds like what the Aussies told me is true....YOU cant own a gun.....

There might be a bit of truth-garnishing on that other board.

i dont think so....

I don't know what they've told you on the other board.
If you want a gun for anything other than self-defence then you can get one.
If they told you that 'only ranchers and farmers' can own one then they're wrong.

so if i dont need one for my job.....
i don't hunt....
i don't go target shooting
then the govt says then there is no reason for me to have one..........so once again my question is....why is the Australian govt afraid of their Law abiding Citizens owning a gun?..... what are they afraid of?.......so i guess they are saying extensive background checks don't work....right?....

IDB....as far as i am concerned....its like saying.....you cant buy a TV unless you watch the stations approved by the Govt.....

 

[S.J.]

[

Joe learn to read.....i have been saying GUN VIOLENCE .....that not only includes deaths it includes people who were shot but did not die or just gangs shooting at each other.....the panel i was listening too also said there are many shootings that they cant outright classify as "gang related"......but they know it was gang motivated or related......you say i am just echoing what the Pro gunners say......well it seems you are just echoing what the Anti gunners say.....but all in all what i have been saying still stands.....NO ONE it seems wants to deal with the REAL gun nuts in this society.....GANGS and the criminal element out there.....

Guy, the thing is, we lock up 2 million people.

The UK locks up 78,000.
Germany locks up 78,000
Japan locks up 69,000

It seems that the notion that, "We just need to lock up them Gangbangers" and all will be well is a fallacy. We lock up a shitload of people. We have 2 million in prison and another 7 million on parole or probation.

If guns and prisons make us safer, why are we so scared?

We should be the safest nation on earth if guns supposedly keep you safer. Yet the statistics consistently prove those who parrot such nonsense wrong.

You don't get it, do you? It's not about safety, you idiot, it's about freedom. We don't want the fucking government with their boots on our throats. Anyone with a brain can see the wisdom of the second amendment, all they have to do is watch the power grab going on right now by Obama. He's a tyrant, that's why he wants to disarm us, just like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, the list goes on. Liberals will never understand what made this country great.

 

[idb]

Guy, the thing is, we lock up 2 million people.

The UK locks up 78,000.
Germany locks up 78,000
Japan locks up 69,000

It seems that the notion that, "We just need to lock up them Gangbangers" and all will be well is a fallacy. We lock up a shitload of people. We have 2 million in prison and another 7 million on parole or probation.

If guns and prisons make us safer, why are we so scared?

We should be the safest nation on earth if guns supposedly keep you safer. Yet the statistics consistently prove those who parrot such nonsense wrong.

You don't get it, do you? It's not about safety, you idiot, it's about freedom. We don't want the fucking government with their boots on our throats. Anyone with a brain can see the wisdom of the second amendment, all they have to do is watch the power grab going on right now by Obama. He's a tyrant, that's why he wants to disarm us, just like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, the list goes on. Liberals will never understand what made this country great.

'Tyrant'...right.
There's nothing like a plate of meaningless hyperbole to start off the day.

 

[S.J.]

We should be the safest nation on earth if guns supposedly keep you safer. Yet the statistics consistently prove those who parrot such nonsense wrong.

You don't get it, do you? It's not about safety, you idiot, it's about freedom. We don't want the fucking government with their boots on our throats. Anyone with a brain can see the wisdom of the second amendment, all they have to do is watch the power grab going on right now by Obama. He's a tyrant, that's why he wants to disarm us, just like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, the list goes on. Liberals will never understand what made this country great.

'Tyrant'...right.
There's nothing like a plate of meaningless hyperbole to start off the day.

An administration that tracks every American's phone records and emails without telling anyone they're doing it is not tyrannical?

 

[idb]

You don't get it, do you? It's not about safety, you idiot, it's about freedom. We don't want the fucking government with their boots on our throats. Anyone with a brain can see the wisdom of the second amendment, all they have to do is watch the power grab going on right now by Obama. He's a tyrant, that's why he wants to disarm us, just like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, the list goes on. Liberals will never understand what made this country great.

'Tyrant'...right.
There's nothing like a plate of meaningless hyperbole to start off the day.

An administration that tracks every American's phone records and emails without telling anyone they're doing it is not tyrannical?

No.
If they start acting on that information against the people they might be described as tyrannical.

 

[S.J.]

'Tyrant'...right.
There's nothing like a plate of meaningless hyperbole to start off the day.

An administration that tracks every American's phone records and emails without telling anyone they're doing it is not tyrannical?

No.
If they start acting on that information against the people they might be described as tyrannical.

By then it's too late. You're trusting them to not act on it. BIG MISTAKE!

 

[JoeB131]

[
You don't get it, do you? It's not about safety, you idiot, it's about freedom. We don't want the fucking government with their boots on our throats. Anyone with a brain can see the wisdom of the second amendment, all they have to do is watch the power grab going on right now by Obama. He's a tyrant, that's why he wants to disarm us, just like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, the list goes on. Liberals will never understand what made this country great.

Guns don't make you any freer.... to whit.