Awww.....SHIT!

[gallantwarrior]

You know where there are no dead zones in the Gulf? Around those oil platforms. They are teeming with ocean life where there used to be little to none before. Ditto in Alaska--the caribou and other critters love that pipeline. In the Texas Panhandle where there were only a few jackrabbits and coyotes, there are now all sorts of game birds that didn't used to be there and amazing herds of deer and antelope where there used to be none--all after the oil fields went in. I'm not saying it was the oil that attracted them, but it sure hasn't been detrimental to them.

Up here, where they once did hard rock mining, they reclaimed the land and you can't always tell the difference. Understanding the cycles of an ecosystem helps one understand that those beautiful old growth areas are not always the best wildlife habitat. Even wildfires serve an important purpose in the respect of ecological renewal. I find it ultimately ironic that all these efforts to protect and preserve the environment have some horrific unintended consequences.

It wasn't all that long ago that the Spotted Owl was the poster bird for environmental extremists. They HAD TO HAVE OLD GROWTH FOREST to survive and that justified putting thousands of loggers out of work we heard again and again. At least until Spottel Owls were found nesting in K-mart signs.

The fact is that living creatures and plants have been evolving and going extinct on this planet for at least 2 billion years. Humans are also a species with every bit as much value as any other creature. But humans and all other creatures that live on Earth at this time have survived by adjusting and adapting to ever changing conditions that have never and never will stay exactly the same.

Nobody I have ever met wants to wantonly or carelessly harm the environment or the life forms that inhabit the Earth. Of course we don't want to wantonly destroy habitat or unnecessary threaten any species. But to assume that the critters we share the Earth with are unable to adapt and adjust to any changing conditions at all is just silly.

Here's another one of those conundrums (I often associate with liberals): we shouldn't harm animals. Don't eat their meat, don't use their skins or other animal by-products (except dung). Extrapolate the "do no harm" to animals mantra and we are faced with an all out drive to protect their environments. But the real laugh is, if you only eat vegetables or wear cotton and linen, you have to accept the fact that the natural environment has to be destroyed in order to grow your food and clothing. Too many people fail to differentiate "conservation" with "preservation", and we all suffer the unintended consequences.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Up here, where they once did hard rock mining, they reclaimed the land and you can't always tell the difference. Understanding the cycles of an ecosystem helps one understand that those beautiful old growth areas are not always the best wildlife habitat. Even wildfires serve an important purpose in the respect of ecological renewal. I find it ultimately ironic that all these efforts to protect and preserve the environment have some horrific unintended consequences.

It wasn't all that long ago that the Spotted Owl was the poster bird for environmental extremists. They HAD TO HAVE OLD GROWTH FOREST to survive and that justified putting thousands of loggers out of work we heard again and again. At least until Spottel Owls were found nesting in K-mart signs.

The fact is that living creatures and plants have been evolving and going extinct on this planet for at least 2 billion years. Humans are also a species with every bit as much value as any other creature. But humans and all other creatures that live on Earth at this time have survived by adjusting and adapting to ever changing conditions that have never and never will stay exactly the same.

Nobody I have ever met wants to wantonly or carelessly harm the environment or the life forms that inhabit the Earth. Of course we don't want to wantonly destroy habitat or unnecessary threaten any species. But to assume that the critters we share the Earth with are unable to adapt and adjust to any changing conditions at all is just silly.

You have to keep in mind that in the world view of environmentalists, human being are an aberration. Apparently, we DIDN'T evolve -- we invaded. And we're not part of nature.

The most extreme of them think humans should be eliminated, in part or in whole.

That's the only thing that will make Baby Gaea happy, apparently.

I'm waiting for them to lead the way. Oh, wait, they are the enlightened elites who should remain.

 

[daveman]

It wasn't all that long ago that the Spotted Owl was the poster bird for environmental extremists. They HAD TO HAVE OLD GROWTH FOREST to survive and that justified putting thousands of loggers out of work we heard again and again. At least until Spottel Owls were found nesting in K-mart signs.

The fact is that living creatures and plants have been evolving and going extinct on this planet for at least 2 billion years. Humans are also a species with every bit as much value as any other creature. But humans and all other creatures that live on Earth at this time have survived by adjusting and adapting to ever changing conditions that have never and never will stay exactly the same.

Nobody I have ever met wants to wantonly or carelessly harm the environment or the life forms that inhabit the Earth. Of course we don't want to wantonly destroy habitat or unnecessary threaten any species. But to assume that the critters we share the Earth with are unable to adapt and adjust to any changing conditions at all is just silly.

You have to keep in mind that in the world view of environmentalists, human being are an aberration. Apparently, we DIDN'T evolve -- we invaded. And we're not part of nature.

The most extreme of them think humans should be eliminated, in part or in whole.

That's the only thing that will make Baby Gaea happy, apparently.

I'm waiting for them to lead the way. Oh, wait, they are the enlightened elites who should remain.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

 

[Foxfyre]

Okay, so we can see the danger to the birds and the habitat destruction from the wind turbines. Are the oil fields worse?

It is reasonable to have the debate of the long range effect on what we do. Fossil fuels won't last forever and of course it is good to be researching and learning how to use alternate sources of energy. Not so good to force us to use alternate sources of energy now that are not making any significant difference. It is good to learn the risks of using certain kinds of fuel and develop ways to eliminate or minimalize those risks. Not so good to present those risks in fabricated and dishonest ways. It is important to be honest and up front with the facts and use honest data if we are going to have a constructive debate.

For example: The environmental religionists who don't want ANWR opened up for oil production put out photos like this:

But the area of ANWR where the most of the new drilling would take place is actually in the northern coastal plain and actually looks mostly like this:

ANWR is an enormous area that would cover many states in the lower 48. And only a very small fraction of it would be opened for oil production. Why can't we be honest about that?

And despite the doom and gloom predictions of environmental extremists on wildlife in Alaska when the oil fields first went in at Prudhoe Bay, yeah it is obvious that the wildlife is really suffering there. The bears entertain themselves walking the pipeline and researchers observe the caribou gravitating to the roads and other human activity in the area where they can find some relief from stinging insects and such.

The Alaska Department of Fish and
Game has reported that the Central Arctic
caribou herd, which occupies summer ranges
that include the Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk
oil fields, grew sharply in numbers between
2002 and 2008.
The herd included approximately 67,000
animals in summer 2008, compared to
32,000 in 2002. The herd had less then
5,000 animals in 1975, several years before
North Slope oil production commenced
Arctic Power - Arctic National Wildlife Refuge - Central Arctic caribou herd thrives, population at record high

Instead of wild eyed speculation and irrational predictions, let's have a conversation toward finding the best solution for us and the wildlife and not just one that fits political speculation.