Ban affirmative action. Support equality based on merit.

[IM2]

Okay, so how do you want to go about dismantling the system that is in place?

remove skin color and gender from all applications,, problem solved,,,

It's not in any applications. They tried a study where they mixed up the names on resumes. The "black names" got picked WAY less than the white sounding names. When they swapped the names around and put the white names on the black people's resumes, the white names got picked. It wasn't their skills or their "merit's". The HR staff were picking the applicants they thought were white.

Harvard Study Says Minority Job Candidates Are 'Whitening' Their Resumes When Looking for Jobs

Ever changed your name on a resume to get more job interviews?

www.inc.com

Do job-seekers with 'white' names get more callbacks than 'black' names?

The Sunday shows capped a turbulent week for race relations around the country, from the shooting of two officers in a n

www.politifact.com

put pictures with the apps and white names on black people and I bet the white names get picked more even when the pic shows a black man. In other words I bet it's not based on race.

You bet wrong.

 

[IM2]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar.

Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

Yes...it is. It is called racism no matter what the intent....and discriminating against people because people in the past with their same skin color did bad things is called racism....

In the past? Things are better; we are slowly convincing people that a black, a woman, a Latino, a Native American, can do an equally good job as the average white guy. But there are still plenty of people who don't see it and would still not give those people a chance to succeed or fail.

No, what people like you have done is convince people that minorities are getting ahead based upon the color of their skin or their gender, NOT their accomplishments or capabilities. There are facts to base that belief on, just look at the washout rates for minority students admitted to colleges under affirmative action programs. Scarce college slots are wasted on people who have no real chance of success. Promotions and jobs are the same way. Every woman or minority who is promoted is viewed by the other candidates as well as subordinates as getting promoted in spite of their performance not because of it. The bad ones get carried, the good ones have to work ten times as hard to disprove erroneous beliefs about their lack of competency. AA MIGHT have had a place when it was enacted, although I disagree, but when does it end? It existed my entire working life, will my great grandchildren be denied equal access to schools and jobs as well? You can’t use discrimination by further discrimination.

Whites have done what you claim here since the beginning of this country. Whites drop out of college too. Everything you say here is bullshit. When will whites like you drop the delusion? AA ends when whites stop practicing racism. White racial preference is an American tradition and it is so routine that whites like you either don't know that's what is happening or you know it and want to continue getting preferential treatment.

White and asian kids are not given an advantage getting into school. Black kids are. You think that is ok despite not taking anything else into account? A rich black kid from Beverly Hills with lesser qualifications could still benefit from AA, while a poor white kids from Arkansas could be left out. In what world is that the “right” thing to do?

Wrong. Asians are not shafted by AA. In fact as it pertains to their population, they are overrepresented. Understand this, schools take into account multiple factors in admitting students and test scores are just one. Test scores are so inconsequential that now over 900 colleges don't consider test scores or have made testing optional. Your racist argument always assumes that blacks aren't qualidied, which is wrong. What has been shown over the past few years is rampant cheating by bpth Asians and whites.

Rich black kids suffer from systemic racial discrimination and poor white kids don't. There is such a thing as unqualified whites and many of them are accepted on legacy. Ask G.W. Bush.

 

[danielpalos]

Affirmative action would have never been imagined if right-wingers were not so false, to themselves and others.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

So are you also going to get rid of "legacy" admissions to Ivy League Schools? The Old Boys/Girls network in corporate hiring? Nepotism? Fraternities and sororities, which serve as networking organizations upon graduation, and all of the various and assorted ways that our current system keeps it "all in the family", and excludes outsiders and minorities?

80% of the job market and other admissions is not based on "merit", but rather an a myriad systems of standards and norms which is designed to ensure that people like me who has connections through family and friends and seldom had to go through a job competition at all. It's not what you know, but WHO you know, and I know a LOT of people.

I can win at 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon all day long.

Is that how Asian and Indian immigrants have run right past dark people and exceled in America's job markets?
"Because they know someone"?
Hahahaha...ignorant lying tard

 

[BrokeLoser]

So you want someone to work hard for $10 per hour? No way no how. Pay is always equated with expected productivity. The more pay the harder one works. The less pay the less one works. As it should be.

$10 jobs are reserved for children seeking work experience...you've made them for 35 year old illegals raising a litter of silver tooth money trees.

 

[IM2]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

So are you also going to get rid of "legacy" admissions to Ivy League Schools? The Old Boys/Girls network in corporate hiring? Nepotism? Fraternities and sororities, which serve as networking organizations upon graduation, and all of the various and assorted ways that our current system keeps it "all in the family", and excludes outsiders and minorities?

80% of the job market and other admissions is not based on "merit", but rather an a myriad systems of standards and norms which is designed to ensure that people like me who has connections through family and friends and seldom had to go through a job competition at all. It's not what you know, but WHO you know, and I know a LOT of people.

I can win at 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon all day long.

Is that how Asian and Indian immigrants have run right past dark people and exceled in America's job markets?
"Because they know someone"?
Hahahaha...ignorant lying tard

Actually they haven't run by anyone.You know nothing about the HIB visa.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

So are you also going to get rid of "legacy" admissions to Ivy League Schools? The Old Boys/Girls network in corporate hiring? Nepotism? Fraternities and sororities, which serve as networking organizations upon graduation, and all of the various and assorted ways that our current system keeps it "all in the family", and excludes outsiders and minorities?

80% of the job market and other admissions is not based on "merit", but rather an a myriad systems of standards and norms which is designed to ensure that people like me who has connections through family and friends and seldom had to go through a job competition at all. It's not what you know, but WHO you know, and I know a LOT of people.

I can win at 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon all day long.

Is that how Asian and Indian immigrants have run right past dark people and exceled in America's job markets?
"Because they know someone"?
Hahahaha...ignorant lying tard

Actually they haven't run by anyone.You know nothing about the HIB visa.

Enlighten us beggar

 

[OldLady]

We wouldn't want to miss a generation of snivelling losers; it just wouldn't be the same if by then everyone had figured out that we're equally capable when given a chance.

I guess I fail to see how a person who went to the same college but had lower grades and lower test scores is just as capable of becoming a doctor as their academic peer who just happens to be a different color. In fact, the non-minority may have come from a less affluent household as well and may have had to work through college while the minority student is on a minority only scholarship. One may get into medical school while the other is forced to change their plans despite being more qualified by every meaningful measurement. That is the very definition of racism and that is exactly what AA does. You can spin it all you would like and talk about how diversity makes us better, yada, yada, yada, but the bottom line is that a person’s race is the prevailing factor in some of these decisions and that is flat out wrong.

AA is working. Minorities are getting educated and getting decent jobs, and in another generation you'll see the difference it makes. These things take time. Everyone deserves to contribute.

A poor kid from Arkansas is going to get into college, too, btw. It isn't just minority poor that the government is pushing toward college.

 

[Leo123]

So you want someone to work hard for $10 per hour? No way no how. Pay is always equated with expected productivity. The more pay the harder one works. The less pay the less one works. As it should be.

Since when in America is a person made to stay at the same job making the same pay? If you're making $10 an hour and unhappy....Get another job!

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What is wrong with a merit standard?

That would be a caste system, dope.

What happened to the founding principle that all men are created equal?

 

[progressive hunter]

What is wrong with a merit standard?

That would be a caste system, dope.

What happened to the founding principle that all men are created equal?

we are created equal,, after that its up to us to fend for ourselves,,,

 

[Leo123]

AA is working. Minorities are getting educated and getting decent jobs, and in another generation you'll see the difference it makes. These things take time. Everyone deserves to contribute.

A poor kid from Arkansas is going to get into college, too, btw. It isn't just minority poor that the government is pushing toward college.

AA is racist because it favors folks by the color of their skin or ethnicity. Your racist view of America is ignorant and insulting.

 

[Leo123]

That would be a caste system, dope.

What happened to the founding principle that all men are created equal?

Promotion by merit is actually the complete opposite of a caste system where one is born into a certain caste and can never rise above it or can never go below it. Study India for example.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What is wrong with a merit standard?

You have to put up with the corrupt life-ruining car-trashing home-wrecking idiot jackasses who proctor and grade the academic "exams" administered for such purposes.

There's a prissy librarian who doesn't like you, and your exam papers disappeared in the back office, and your court papers disappeared from your lawyer's office when cops after cops picked you up for loitering, trespassing, prostitution, trying on clothes, hitting on a pretty girl, or some other felony in the district, and now you're trying to get your life back together and your things in gear. How do you come off so pretty yourself with a one-up on all that bullshit going on downtown, because you're fucked just like everybody else and there ain't no "merit" going to help you, because you're just gonna get the shit beat out of you downtown and the cops will spit in your face if you think you "merited" anything in this life.

Boo Hoo, cry me a river. Life is tough, it is tougher when you're stupid.

We see that. It’ll get better little buddy.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What is wrong with a merit standard?

That would be a caste system, dope.

What happened to the founding principle that all men are created equal?

we are created equal,, after that its up to us to fend for ourselves,,,

At what point does the equality cease?

 

[Dragonlady]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar.

Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

Yes...it is. It is called racism no matter what the intent....and discriminating against people because people in the past with their same skin color did bad things is called racism....

In the past? Things are better; we are slowly convincing people that a black, a woman, a Latino, a Native American, can do an equally good job as the average white guy. But there are still plenty of people who don't see it and would still not give those people a chance to succeed or fail.

No, what people like you have done is convince people that minorities are getting ahead based upon the color of their skin or their gender, NOT their accomplishments or capabilities. There are facts to base that belief on, just look at the washout rates for minority students admitted to colleges under affirmative action programs. Scarce college slots are wasted on people who have no real chance of success. Promotions and jobs are the same way. Every woman or minority who is promoted is viewed by the other candidates as well as subordinates as getting promoted in spite of their performance not because of it. The bad ones get carried, the good ones have to work ten times as hard to disprove erroneous beliefs about their lack of competency. AA MIGHT have had a place when it was enacted, although I disagree, but when does it end? It existed my entire working life, will my great grandchildren be denied equal access to schools and jobs as well? You can’t use discrimination by further discrimination.

Whites have done what you claim here since the beginning of this country. Whites drop out of college too. Everything you say here is bullshit. When will whites like you drop the delusion? AA ends when whites stop practicing racism. White racial preference is an American tradition and it is so routine that whites like you either don't know that's what is happening or you know it and want to continue getting preferential treatment.

White and asian kids are not given an advantage getting into school. Black kids are. You think that is ok despite not taking anything else into account? A rich black kid from Beverly Hills with lesser qualifications could still benefit from AA, while a poor white kids from Arkansas could be left out. In what world is that the “right” thing to do?

30% of Ivy League College admissions go to “legacy students” - the children of the rich white people who graduated from Harvard, Princeton and Yale. This is the very definition of “affirmative action” for rich white kids.

In terms of “athletic scholarships”, there are, on average, 12 scholarship track athletic programs at suburban middle class high schools versus 9 at inner city schools, so rich white kifs have the advantage there as well. There are few hockey, swimming, fencing or rowing programs in inner city schools. This makes the competition for basketball, track and field, baseball and football scholarships among minority students, that much tougher.

You had a lengthy post about the Bell Curve and the lower IQ and test scores to justify keeping minorities out of Ivy League schools.

The authors of the Bell Curve theorized that the USA would become stratified by IQ with the smartest people having the highest income, so education should go to the smartest, and black IQ’s are lower than whites and Asians so AA is wasted on blacks.

But the ignored the stats which showed that IQ has limited effects on income and success. That basically 1 point higher of IQ above the average of 100, will only result in an average 1% income increase. While rich people with Average IQ’s have an income 200% higher than the American average.

The Brookings Institute points out that the every addional year of education which the average individual receives increases the annual income by $700 per year (as at the year the study was first published)

This means 2 years of ECE pre-school, would increase average IQ of particants by 3%, and their average annual earning, making the investment in the 2 extra years of ECS well worth the investment.

Extrapolating the incone data from the bell curve research, provides ample proof that the investment and increased educational opportunities provided by AA for CB inner city minorities have been well worth the investment.

Between the start of Johnson’s War on Poverty which pushed access for minorities to higher education, black poverty was cut by 2/3 and black unemployment was substantially reduced as well.

Republicans stoked white fear and grievance around affirmative action and its impact on white opportunities. Republicans claimed it was no longer needed that and that the playing field was now leveled. Such claims were completely false but they have been an effective wedge issue for Republicans.

 

[task0778]

AA is working. Minorities are getting educated and getting decent jobs, and in another generation you'll see the difference it makes. These things take time. Everyone deserves to contribute.

Yeah, but how much longer is it going to take? I question whether it is working any better than it would have without AA.

The term "affirmative action" was first used in the United States in "Executive Order No. 10925", signed by President John F. Kennedy on 6 March 1961, which included a provision that government contractors "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and employees are treated [fairly] during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin". It was used to promote actions that achieve non-discrimination. In 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson issued Executive Order 11246 which required government employers to "hire without regard to race, religion and national origin" and "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, color, religion, sex or national origin."

I thought it was interesting that in CA they passed an amendment to their state Constitution more than 20 years ago that banned discrimination against anybody, but then this past election they tried to reverse that decision to it would be legal to discriminate, i.e., AA. BTW, the CA voters denied the reversal.

To me, AA is like putting a bandaid on a more serious problem. I don't think the answer is to hire a less qualified person, the real answer is to address the question of why the other person is less qualified and do something about that. Whose fault is it if you are not as qualified? Are there not plenty of people who arose from poverty and poor schools and communities to be successful? And quite frankly, that is not the business of the gov't, that's on the communities and families and the individuals themselves to do whatever it takes to where their value to an employer or school or whatever is no less than anyone else. Yes, that'll take time but IMHO it is morally wrong to hire a person with less merit based on a discriminating factor, be it black over white or the other way around.

 

[progressive hunter]

What is wrong with a merit standard?

That would be a caste system, dope.

What happened to the founding principle that all men are created equal?

we are created equal,, after that its up to us to fend for ourselves,,,

At what point does the equality cease?

I just told you,,

 

[Leo123]

What is wrong with a merit standard?

That would be a caste system, dope.

What happened to the founding principle that all men are created equal?

we are created equal,, after that its up to us to fend for ourselves,,,

At what point does the equality cease?

When the government imposes favor by skin color, you know, like the segregation of the past and now affirmative action. Intelligent patriotic Americans learn from the past and MLK. Ignorant Democrat racists want to prolong their racist past.

 

[Juicin]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar.

Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

Yes...it is. It is called racism no matter what the intent....and discriminating against people because people in the past with their same skin color did bad things is called racism....

In the past? Things are better; we are slowly convincing people that a black, a woman, a Latino, a Native American, can do an equally good job as the average white guy. But there are still plenty of people who don't see it and would still not give those people a chance to succeed or fail.

No, what people like you have done is convince people that minorities are getting ahead based upon the color of their skin or their gender, NOT their accomplishments or capabilities. There are facts to base that belief on, just look at the washout rates for minority students admitted to colleges under affirmative action programs. Scarce college slots are wasted on people who have no real chance of success. Promotions and jobs are the same way. Every woman or minority who is promoted is viewed by the other candidates as well as subordinates as getting promoted in spite of their performance not because of it. The bad ones get carried, the good ones have to work ten times as hard to disprove erroneous beliefs about their lack of competency. AA MIGHT have had a place when it was enacted, although I disagree, but when does it end? It existed my entire working life, will my great grandchildren be denied equal access to schools and jobs as well? You can’t use discrimination by further discrimination.

Whites have done what you claim here since the beginning of this country. Whites drop out of college too. Everything you say here is bullshit. When will whites like you drop the delusion? AA ends when whites stop practicing racism. White racial preference is an American tradition and it is so routine that whites like you either don't know that's what is happening or you know it and want to continue getting preferential treatment.

White and asian kids are not given an advantage getting into school. Black kids are. You think that is ok despite not taking anything else into account? A rich black kid from Beverly Hills with lesser qualifications could still benefit from AA, while a poor white kids from Arkansas could be left out. In what world is that the “right” thing to do?

30% of Ivy League College admissions go to “legacy students” - the children of the rich white people who graduated from Harvard, Princeton and Yale. This is the very definition of “affirmative action” for rich white kids.

In terms of “athletic scholarships”, there are, on average, 12 scholarship track athletic programs at suburban middle class high schools versus 9 at inner city schools, so rich white kifs have the advantage there as well. There are few hockey, swimming, fencing or rowing programs in inner city schools. This makes the competition for basketball, track and field, baseball and football scholarships among minority students, that much tougher.

You had a lengthy post about the Bell Curve and the lower IQ and test scores to justify keeping minorities out of Ivy League schools.

The authors of the Bell Curve theorized that the USA would become stratified by IQ with the smartest people having the highest income, so education should go to the smartest, and black IQ’s are lower than whites and Asians so AA is wasted on blacks.

But the ignored the stats which showed that IQ has limited effects on income and success. That basically 1 point higher of IQ above the average of 100, will only result in an average 1% income increase. While rich people with Average IQ’s have an income 200% higher than the American average.

The Brookings Institute points out that the every addional year of education which the average individual receives increases the annual income by $700 per year (as at the year the study was first published)

This means 2 years of ECE pre-school, would increase average IQ of particants by 3%, and their average annual earning, making the investment in the 2 extra years of ECS well worth the investment.

Extrapolating the incone data from the bell curve research, provides ample proof that the investment and increased educational opportunities provided by AA for CB inner city minorities have been well worth the investment.

Between the start of Johnson’s War on Poverty which pushed access for minorities to higher education, black poverty was cut by 2/3 and black unemployment was substantially reduced as well.

Republicans stoked white fear and grievance around affirmative action and its impact on white opportunities. Republicans claimed it was no longer needed that and that the playing field was now leveled. Such claims were completely false but they have been an effective wedge issue for Republicans.

None of those people are getting in because of their fucking race

Legacies have nothing to do with race. Those same benefits will accrue to non whites

Same with athletics.

If you want to get into harvard on an athletic scholarship better work on your polo game. Luckily it's only little rich kids so it should be easy if you have any athletic skill

Brining this up in a discussion about racial discrimination is absurd.

Non whites will per capita have more legacies in a few generations. That's how the system works. Why the fuck would we want to change the system just as the rest of us are going to get to use it? lol

Maybe as a white woman you should understand that literally every black man with sense doesn't want you to get affirmative action spots. Their first complaint always about AA is "it's for white women fuck off" lol

The irony of you defending it, then attacking a legacy system that will very soon benefit non whites more htan whites is absurd.

If you could come up with a playbook that benefited white women the most this would be it.