Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[badger2]

Bahmut: Bridge Hit, 7h

 

[badger2]

Not Having Democracy Created Mob Rule

Bye.Done. was elected by people who never would have been allowed to vote if the electorate back when America was great had been allowed the natural right to national referendums on civil rights and immigration.

Genuflector Biden Had Mules

 

[badger2]

Volunteers

 

[Unkotare]

Russian troops’ poor performance and low morale may worsen during a winter of more discontent

Given their numbers advantage, Russian troops were expected to quickly capture Ukraine. That didn’t happen, and with winter approaching, more Russian military defeats are expected.

theconversation.com

 

[Unkotare]

In Southern Ukraine, Signs of Low Russian Morale Amid Retreat

The Ukrainians are making gains in the south, an area where Russian soldiers are dug in more securely and where their retreat has been less chaotic than in the north.

www.nytimes.com

 

[JohnDB]

Not so fast.

Ukraine on Monday hailed its first substantial battlefield advances in six months as President Volodymyr Zelenskiy won pledges for new long-range drones in Britain to add to a haul of Western arms for a counteroffensive against Russian invaders.

Since last week, the Ukrainian military has started to push Russian forces back in and around the embattled city of Bakhmut, its first significant offensive operations since its troops recaptured the southern city of Kherson in November.

"The advance of our troops along the Bakhmut direction is the first success of offensive actions in the defence of Bakhmut," Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi, Commander of Ground Forces, said in a statement on the Telegram messaging app.

"The last few days have shown that we can move forward and destroy the enemy even in such extremely difficult conditions," he said. "We are fighting with fewer resources than the enemy. At the same time, we are able to ruin its plans."

Ukraine hails gains in Bakhmut as Zelenskiy wins more weapons in Europe

Ukraine on Monday hailed its first substantial battlefield advances in six months as President Volodymyr Zelenskiy won pledges for new long-range drones in Britain to add to a haul of Western arms for a counteroffensive against Russian invaders.

www.reuters.com

I was not suggesting that Bakhmut had lost its usefulness....far from it.
Encircling Bakhmut with some of the new resources provided by NATO will provide yet another opportunity to destroy all kinds of Russians and their equipment.
Wagner Group has been complaining about a lack of munitions....but yet he has destroyed Bakhmut with them....

Now he gets to discover the real thing instead of the phoney claims as Ukranians encirle the Russians and cut them off from all supplies altogether. (Water, food, munitions).

Not to mention that outside Bakhmut is actually strategically important as Russian supplies move up and down that highway and train tracks outside of Bakmut constantly.

 

[krichton]

And yes, de-Nazification and rehabilitation never were easy things. You know:

Ukraine will denazify their country once the counteroffensive has begun. Russians are already abandoning their lines before it's even began. The clock is ticking.

The convincing was ended a year ago. Now they are going to destroy Ukrainian state and some minimal collateral damage is quite possible.

Ukraine will rebuild and recover, Russia, not so much.

 

[badger2]

'...."You were one of the first to call the Russian scam"
....
"Do you think Ukraine was the ultimate aim of the Russian hoax?"

 

[toomuchtime_]

I was not suggesting that Bakhmut had lost its usefulness....far from it.
Encircling Bakhmut with some of the new resources provided by NATO will provide yet another opportunity to destroy all kinds of Russians and their equipment.
Wagner Group has been complaining about a lack of munitions....but yet he has destroyed Bakhmut with them....

Now he gets to discover the real thing instead of the phoney claims as Ukranians encirle the Russians and cut them off from all supplies altogether. (Water, food, munitions).

Not to mention that outside Bakhmut is actually strategically important as Russian supplies move up and down that highway and train tracks outside of Bakmut constantly.

I was disagreeing with your statement:

"The title of the OP can FINALLY become true some 75,000 dead Russians and 5 months later."

It is still contested, and I am convinced the AFU will ultimately take it. It has no military value, but it has come to represent the feasibility of the Russian plan to take control of the Donbass on the one hand and the feasibility of Ukraine's plan to chase the Russian war criminals from its land on the other.

Of course, a Ukrainian retreat from Bakhmut does not mean Ukraine has lost the war, but it will encourage he Russians to think so, and a Russian retreat will not mean the Russians have already lost the war, but it will encourage Ukraine and its allies to believe it can be done, so if Ukraine retreats, there will be more talk of trying to negotiate with the Russians, and if Russia retreats, Ukraine's allies will be inclined to provide even more offensive weapons to speed up the process of freeing Ukraine from the Russian occupation.

 

[JohnDB]

I was disagreeing with your statement:

"The title of the OP can FINALLY become true some 75,000 dead Russians and 5 months later."

It is still contested, and I am convinced the AFU will ultimately take it. It has no military value, but it has come to represent the feasibility of the Russian plan to take control of the Donbass on the one hand and the feasibility of Ukraine's plan to chase the Russian war criminals from its land on the other.

Of course, a Ukrainian retreat from Bakhmut does not mean Ukraine has lost the war, but it will encourage he Russians to think so, and a Russian retreat will not mean the Russians have already lost the war, but it will encourage Ukraine and its allies to believe it can be done, so if Ukraine retreats, there will be more talk of trying to negotiate with the Russians, and if Russia retreats, Ukraine's allies will be inclined to provide even more offensive weapons to speed up the process of freeing Ukraine from the Russian occupation.

It was either the northern half or the southern half of "the Citadel " that they had lost either last night or this morning. The city blocks and apartment buildings are all just about leveled with the white phosphorus munitions rained down on them and the thermobaric missiles, and the shelling they have gotten.
But encircling the rubble because the Russians occupy it....that's the reason. The Ukranians are keeping control of the Road of Life.

Andiivka is another city like Bakhmut....the Russians are trying to encircle the city and destroy it at the same time. The murals which covered several buildings are trashed. Such a shame.

I'm wondering about the holdout civilians in Bakhmut and Andiivka. These are the Babushkas and old men that have no where else to go and would rather die than leave. They live without electricity, fresh water, heat, or food....they plant gardens and try to survive. Because a few old ones stay, others stay. They have a sense of community that is unfathomable in today's Westernized mindset. "This is MY home" says more than we normally associate with the expression.

Most of the cities never had truly safe tap water to start with. Bottled water has been the only water these people drink anyway. (Mining and industrial contaminants destroyed the water a long time ago)

Most of the people that stayed or are fighting or volunteering in these small towns get dismayed about the sheer volume of destruction and what is going to be required to build them back with jobs and children again.

 

[Ringo]

 

[badger2]

Here in Wisconsin, our anti-nazi investigations continue, linking such names as Mykola Lebed, Shukhevych, Bandera, etc.

29 Mar 2021 Ukrainian Association in Baraboo Honors Nazi Collaborators with Statues at Children's Camp

Ukrainian Association in Baraboo honors Nazi collaborators with statues at children’s summer camp

A summer camp operated by a Ukrainian association in Baraboo has statues honoring several Ukrainian Nazi collaborators.

wisconsinexaminer.com

@RealLoriSpencer: "There are monuments to nazi collaborators in Canada and no one is doing anything about it....the included bust of Roman Shukevych....emblazoned with the Ukrainian trident....Canadian state media dismissed the accusation attributing it to the rise of "fake news" - but it was true. Apart from those in Canada, monuments are dedicated to these two groups (OUN/UPA) at various sites in the United States."

 

[badger2]

So in comparing the chron for the Red Orchestra, the Gestapo raid on their Rue des Atrebates transmitter on 13/14 Dec 1941 compares with Bandera's proclamation of Ukrainian statehood on 30 Jun 1941 from L'vov.

'The Germans placed OUN-B leaders under house arrest within some ten days, soon transferring them to Sachsenhausen concentration camp along with many other OUN leaders and prominent members until late 1944.

The UPA originated in 1942 from Ukrainian guerrilla forces of diverse political allegiances who both defied German authority and fought the Soviet guerrillas. From 1943 the movement came to be fully dominated by the OUN-B; it went on resisting Soviet rule in Western Ukraine after the end of the war until 1950 when the UPA was finally suppressed (Armstrong, Ukrainian Nationalism [1963]).'
(Ferment in the Ukraine, ed. Michael Browne, 1971, p. 36)

 

[badger2]

Poll on Ukraine Victory

 

[braalian]

Poll on Ukraine Victory

What’s your point? The average person has to carry on and live their daily life regardless of there being a war.

Y’know, like in every war there ever was in history.

 

[JohnDB]

I see a coup in the making....

 

[badger2]

What’s your point? The average person has to carry on and live their daily life regardless of there being a war.

Y’know, like in every war there ever was in history.

Your problem is that you're not educated about the evolution of the SBU. so suggested reading is Michael Browne ed., Ferment in Ukraine, 1971, the rise of the OUN and UPA, etc.

 

[badger2]

Bahmut: Platinum Star

 

[badger2]

Red Orchestra in Free Ukraine: Bloggers Arrested

 

[JohnDB]

What is going on here?