Because of no right to own firearms...

[Skull Pilot]

No, people with firearms kill people

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Lowest rate since al Capone.
I feel safer now.
Such stupidity

It's not my job to make you feel safe

 

[ph3iron]

No, people with firearms kill people

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

 

[Skull Pilot]

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

SO what?

Are you so naive as to believe if a person can't get a gun that he won't commit suicide ?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No, people with firearms kill people

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Your chart does NOT support your claims at ALL.

Not all of my claims are on there. But enough of yours are to show that you are full of it. Fact Check is not your best buddy, cupcake.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Lowest rate since al Capone.
I feel safer now.
Such stupidity

It's not my job to make you feel safe

If it has been your job to make us feel unsafe, you have done a remarkable job. Lately, though, you have fallen down on that job as more and more people are no longer falling for the fear factor you keep peddling.
'
'

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Lowest rate since al Capone.
I feel safer now.
Such stupidity

It's not my job to make you feel safe

If it has been your job to make us feel unsafe, you have done a remarkable job. Lately, though, you have fallen down on that job as more and more people are no longer falling for the fear factor you keep peddling.
'
'

And yet 49 percent of all households now own firearms. And it seems gays and others are figuring out that firearms are a GOOD thing so that will go up some more.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Lowest rate since al Capone.
I feel safer now.
Such stupidity

It's not my job to make you feel safe

If it has been your job to make us feel unsafe, you have done a remarkable job. Lately, though, you have fallen down on that job as more and more people are no longer falling for the fear factor you keep peddling.
'
'

And yet 49 percent of all households now own firearms. And it seems gays and others are figuring out that firearms are a GOOD thing so that will go up some more.

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Your figures are off. The number is 42%. And 3% of the population does own over 50% of the guns. That means that MOST households with guns have only one.

Check out this site. It is by Gallup and pretty well sums up what I believe. These aren't facts, these are opinion by Americans. I already know your head will explode about halfway through it but it's interesting reading.

Guns

 

[Daryl Hunt]

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

And Countries with No firearms prove that suicides happen in large numbers even with out them.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

And Countries with No firearms prove that suicides happen in large numbers even with out them.

Hey, I can't help it that the US is more efficient. WE ARE NUMBER ONE, WE ARE NUMBER ONE!!!!!

 

[Sahba]

First let me commend you on your posts... I enjoy reading them and they are well thought out!

I see it diametrically opposite than you... was that gun toting hot head in the theater under the (correct) assumption that he could act out impulsively because there were no other guns? If in lets say a small town Texas theater where he thought that perhaps 1/2 of the men and / or women were armed... would he have done what he did... I say, not as likely.

It wasn't covered very well. It happened in a deep red area and there wasn't enough supporting information to really tell what went on. But I can surmise that the dude took offense to a noisy eater and the noisy eater decided to go on a lip smacking obnoxious routine just to piss the dude off. BTW, the Gun was a legal gun since the Dude was a retired Deputy Sheriff. Tempers flare and BOOM. Take the gun out of the equation and an ass beating would have been in order.

Rare shit happens and there are "anomalies", (can we agree, not all that germain) which are not a good predictor of broad sweeping generalities in population / legislation / policies... Generally speaking I think anyone would be more reticent to pull any weapon surrounded by their peers possessing that same weapon. Just my honest opinion drawn from life... (especially my floozy bar hopping days)... lol

One would think that except it's false. We are no more civilized now than we were in 1869. In 1869, in cities like Dallas, Denver and the like, on weekends, the Cowboys showed up with their sidearms straped on their hips. As the party continue, they got a little wild. Booze got into the mix, tempers flaired and people died. And this included innocent bystanders. We even still have a law on the Colorado Books about At the Ready but it's no longer enforced or needed. So most Cities in the West went to the no open carry of firearms within city limits. And it was enforced by whatever means was necessary. We have to be able to learn from our own history or we fail once again. More Guns at the rate it was in the West in 1869 means a lot of unnecessary killing and bloodshed that we need to avoid.

Aren't there stiff penalties for imbibing while carrying in an establishment. I know for sure that if one were to draw, let alone fire there would be a shit load of explaining to do and likely prosecution...?

A mean drunk cold care less. There are penalties for beating the crap out of the guy on the next bar stool but that doesn't seem to stop a mean drunk. Now, remove the fear of getting the crap beat out of yourself, add in the removal of inhibitions, add in the gun and you have a shooting in the making. That loud mouth that might have not had the nerve to go through with fighting now has the capability to do so. And he isn't thinking about the law. And a drunk with a gun is a poor shot. There is usually innocent bystanders that are shot up. Welcome to Dallas circa 1869. If you believe that half of the people in Texas are armed, don't. Most aren't armed. It's a myth. I know a lot of people there and MOST are not armed while in public. It's not practical or social. The Gun Nutters want you to think most are armed all the time. But it's their own fantasy, not reality. Now, they might have a gun in the trunk but not on their person. But most leave their guns at home or they don't even own a gun in Texas. There are too many Rexall Rangers running around wanting to relive the Wild Wild West. I don't. I lived part of that growing up. Not about the guns, but the hard work, long hours, broken and injured bodies from the accidents, the cold, the heat and more. There is a reason many of us got as far away from Ranching as you can get in the 60s and learned other trades.

I can spot a wanna be a mile off. I call them Rexall Ranger. Others call them Drugstore Cowboys. Yes, we could shoot. Yes, when we went into the rougher areas, went armed with at lest a carbine and sometimes a sidearm. But those weren't for shooting people. In fact, they were there to make noise more than not to discourage the big Cats and Bears from doing something stupid. Or we might take a long gun to bring back meat. But when we went into town, the guns went back into the racks and into the drawers. Towns were not the place to have guns. Too many stupid people. And none of that has changed even today 50 years later and won't change 100 years in the future. These Rexall Rangers want to go back to a life that never existed. It was only in the Penny Dreadfuls or Dime Novels that had some truth in them but mostly were only written to wow the rubes.

We don't need more guns. More Guns don't mean less crime. If you get too many guns, you get more crime as they found out during the 1860s right after the Civil War when many left both Armies and for the first time, had side arms and then drifted west. If you don't learn from your past, you will repeat the past over and over again.

Hey Daryl, I think it would be a lot of fun to hear some of your ranching experiences back in the day. I was just using an arbitrary state and TX came to mind. I'm right on the VT / NH border and actually only recently moved to NH from VT. Believe it or not, VT was right up there at the top of the best states to be a gun owner... 16 to buy, no permit for open or concealed carry, loaded pistol in car... no prob. just no long guns loaded (poaching). No one really bats an eye if the guy in front of U at Walmart or the grocery store has a sidearm strapped... etc. All that to say, the ubiquitousness of the gun is not at all a foreign concept to me. I personally choose to carry concealed a fair amount of the time but never when I anticipate having any drinks out in public. As a woman I just feel on more equal footing in being able to stand up for myself in a SHTF scenario & I've had an experience in my teens that has indelibly shaped my resolve on this matter. Protecting myself and those I love is more important to me than shaping policy through legislation centered around the lowest common denominator, that you so aptly described as the 'cold drunk'. I think it boils down to a philosophical difference of opinion on whether one feels that society is safer with more arms in the hands of law abiding citizens or fewer arms in the hands of law abiding citizens. I hope we can agree that the number of arms in those who choose to live outside the law doesn't change much either way!

There is a price for freedom. A tremendous blood sacrifice was paid by those that forged this nation, at the muzzle of the gun, from tyranny. Many subsequent generations have sacrificed in maintaining our freedoms over the past couple hundred years. I choose more personal freedom and personal responsibility than less, recognizing that it does come at the cost of a few bad seeds abusing this freedom. I do not want policy for the vast majority to be lowered to the lowest denominator consigned for the criminals and the 'prohibited possessors' among us!

 

[2aguy]

People with knives kill people
People with baseball bats kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is a fact as irrefutable as gravity

Now knowing this fact why on earth would you not want a gun?

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

Yes....and in Japan, China, and Korea, where they have extreme gun control...only cops and criminals can have guns....their suicide rate is higher than ours....

Guns are not the cause of suicide....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[2aguy]

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

And Countries with No firearms prove that suicides happen in large numbers even with out them.

Hey, I can't help it that the US is more efficient. WE ARE NUMBER ONE, WE ARE NUMBER ONE!!!!!

We aren't more efficient in suicides...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000.

By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

It wasn't covered very well. It happened in a deep red area and there wasn't enough supporting information to really tell what went on. But I can surmise that the dude took offense to a noisy eater and the noisy eater decided to go on a lip smacking obnoxious routine just to piss the dude off. BTW, the Gun was a legal gun since the Dude was a retired Deputy Sheriff. Tempers flare and BOOM. Take the gun out of the equation and an ass beating would have been in order.

Rare shit happens and there are "anomalies", (can we agree, not all that germain) which are not a good predictor of broad sweeping generalities in population / legislation / policies... Generally speaking I think anyone would be more reticent to pull any weapon surrounded by their peers possessing that same weapon. Just my honest opinion drawn from life... (especially my floozy bar hopping days)... lol

One would think that except it's false. We are no more civilized now than we were in 1869. In 1869, in cities like Dallas, Denver and the like, on weekends, the Cowboys showed up with their sidearms straped on their hips. As the party continue, they got a little wild. Booze got into the mix, tempers flaired and people died. And this included innocent bystanders. We even still have a law on the Colorado Books about At the Ready but it's no longer enforced or needed. So most Cities in the West went to the no open carry of firearms within city limits. And it was enforced by whatever means was necessary. We have to be able to learn from our own history or we fail once again. More Guns at the rate it was in the West in 1869 means a lot of unnecessary killing and bloodshed that we need to avoid.

Aren't there stiff penalties for imbibing while carrying in an establishment. I know for sure that if one were to draw, let alone fire there would be a shit load of explaining to do and likely prosecution...?

A mean drunk cold care less. There are penalties for beating the crap out of the guy on the next bar stool but that doesn't seem to stop a mean drunk. Now, remove the fear of getting the crap beat out of yourself, add in the removal of inhibitions, add in the gun and you have a shooting in the making. That loud mouth that might have not had the nerve to go through with fighting now has the capability to do so. And he isn't thinking about the law. And a drunk with a gun is a poor shot. There is usually innocent bystanders that are shot up. Welcome to Dallas circa 1869. If you believe that half of the people in Texas are armed, don't. Most aren't armed. It's a myth. I know a lot of people there and MOST are not armed while in public. It's not practical or social. The Gun Nutters want you to think most are armed all the time. But it's their own fantasy, not reality. Now, they might have a gun in the trunk but not on their person. But most leave their guns at home or they don't even own a gun in Texas. There are too many Rexall Rangers running around wanting to relive the Wild Wild West. I don't. I lived part of that growing up. Not about the guns, but the hard work, long hours, broken and injured bodies from the accidents, the cold, the heat and more. There is a reason many of us got as far away from Ranching as you can get in the 60s and learned other trades.

I can spot a wanna be a mile off. I call them Rexall Ranger. Others call them Drugstore Cowboys. Yes, we could shoot. Yes, when we went into the rougher areas, went armed with at lest a carbine and sometimes a sidearm. But those weren't for shooting people. In fact, they were there to make noise more than not to discourage the big Cats and Bears from doing something stupid. Or we might take a long gun to bring back meat. But when we went into town, the guns went back into the racks and into the drawers. Towns were not the place to have guns. Too many stupid people. And none of that has changed even today 50 years later and won't change 100 years in the future. These Rexall Rangers want to go back to a life that never existed. It was only in the Penny Dreadfuls or Dime Novels that had some truth in them but mostly were only written to wow the rubes.

We don't need more guns. More Guns don't mean less crime. If you get too many guns, you get more crime as they found out during the 1860s right after the Civil War when many left both Armies and for the first time, had side arms and then drifted west. If you don't learn from your past, you will repeat the past over and over again.

Hey Daryl, I think it would be a lot of fun to hear some of your ranching experiences back in the day. I was just using an arbitrary state and TX came to mind. I'm right on the VT / NH border and actually only recently moved to NH from VT. Believe it or not, VT was right up there at the top of the best states to be a gun owner... 16 to buy, no permit for open or concealed carry, loaded pistol in car... no prob. just no long guns loaded (poaching). No one really bats an eye if the guy in front of U at Walmart or the grocery store has a sidearm strapped... etc. All that to say, the ubiquitousness of the gun is not at all a foreign concept to me. I personally choose to carry concealed a fair amount of the time but never when I anticipate having any drinks out in public. As a woman I just feel on more equal footing in being able to stand up for myself in a SHTF scenario & I've had an experience in my teens that has indelibly shaped my resolve on this matter. Protecting myself and those I love is more important to me than shaping policy through legislation centered around the lowest common denominator, that you so aptly described as the 'cold drunk'. I think it boils down to a philosophical difference of opinion on whether one feels that society is safer with more arms in the hands of law abiding citizens or fewer arms in the hands of law abiding citizens. I hope we can agree that the number of arms in those who choose to live outside the law doesn't change much either way!

There is a price for freedom. A tremendous blood sacrifice was paid by those that forged this nation, at the muzzle of the gun, from tyranny. Many subsequent generations have sacrificed in maintaining our freedoms over the past couple hundred years. I choose more personal freedom and personal responsibility than less, recognizing that it does come at the cost of a few bad seeds abusing this freedom. I do not want policy for the vast majority to be lowered to the lowest denominator consigned for the criminals and the 'prohibited possessors' among us!

I spent 8 years doing a job no one wanted to do. SAC was miserable. Nukes are the ultimate gun control. I spent a total of 20 years in USAF doing various jobs at various bases. I have seen countries with extreme gun control, governments out of control and armed civilians to the point that it wasn't safe to go outside of your home or even stay home. The US, as screwed up as it is, is the best country in the world that I visited overall. Let's not screw it up.

 

[danielpalos]

The cesspool that is Western Europe...

Home Secretary Sajid Javid reveals how he was a moped mugging victim as he launches battle to beat villains

Less than one in 20 street robberies are being solved by police | Daily Mail Online

In the US, only the unorganized militia complains, not well regulated militia.

 

[night_son]

The cesspool that is Western Europe...

Home Secretary Sajid Javid reveals how he was a moped mugging victim as he launches battle to beat villains

Less than one in 20 street robberies are being solved by police | Daily Mail Online

Yeah it's terrifying to imagine being a father in parts of the UK, Sweden, Germany, where the actual ability to defend oneself on a level playing field of any kind has been taken and surrendered. I think of Britain's long history of producing some of the first and best great white hunters, the custom calibers they pioneered and the raw spirit of man against nature across the dark continent. Now what must the surviving hunters of their day think of a land where one of many of the cultures that defied them has been deleted.

One of the worst aspects of European gun control and the anti-heterosexual male movement is the fear instilled in men to defend even their wives and children for paranoia they will be punished harsher than the criminal who attacked them. That is blatantly dehumanizing and attempted removal of tens of thousands of years of paternal and maternal instinct. How can one even feel like a full man or woman if one cannot even be legally permitted to answer violence with equal violence in defense of self or family?

And what a betrayal of over a millennia of culture to welcome Islam into their nation not as a recognized but secondary religion, but as a super entitled replacement of Christianity. All those centuries of regional culture now under barrage let alone the seemingly downplayed rape culture which is a direct campaign in a 21st century holy war. Who could have guessed the Islamic defeat of the Western world would precipitate with mass migration. Historians, that's who. But where were their warnings and if they have kept their vigil why has no one recognized it for what it is until now?

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Lowest rate since al Capone.
I feel safer now.
Such stupidity

It's not my job to make you feel safe

If it has been your job to make us feel unsafe, you have done a remarkable job. Lately, though, you have fallen down on that job as more and more people are no longer falling for the fear factor you keep peddling.
'
'

If you feel unsafe that's your problem and none of my doing

And it's you people that are selling fear that anyone who owns a gun will one day snap and go on a shooting spree

I have never said a gun is anything but a tool. A gun has no mysterious powers to make people kill others or commit suicide

The fact is in this country the cops have no obligation to come to your aid so you have to decide if you want the option to protect yourself or wait for the government to come to your aid.

I have also been quite clear on my stance on concealed carry.

My weapon is for self defense and the defense of my wife not defense of the public.

If you choose not to be armed I respect that choice hence I will not draw my weapon to defend anyone who chooses not to carry because it is your choice to trust government law enforcement with your personal safety. I will call the cops and an ambulance for you and hope your choice will not see you end up dead

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's just much easier to end a petty argument with a gun than all the other things you mentioned. Most of the ones you name take time and effort and can usually be stopped in time if there are others around with the will to stop it. But if you use a gun, it's fast and final and you can only be stopped after the fact.

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

are you also so naive as to think that if a person can't get a gun that he will not commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and we all know that you don't like people making their own choices

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And yet gun owners, legal ones, are not ending petty arguments with guns...... you are throwing that out with no basis in the truth....

People who commit murder, with guns or without, are not normal people who kill in the heat of an argument....90% of them have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teenage years and have at least one felony.... the others are violent but likely escaped being arrested by chance...

JURIST - The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

are you also so naive as to think that if a person can't get a gun that he will not commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and we all know that you don't like people making their own choices

Whats hilarious is that he probably supports assisted suicide laws but here he is arguing suicide is a bad thing.

 

[ph3iron]

Gee gun crimes down when gun ownership rises

And suicide is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the gun issue because anyone can commit suicide without a gun.

But they tend not too.
Gun suicides are by far the most commen

No, SUCCESSFUL Gun suicides are by far the most common.

are you also so naive as to think that if a person can't get a gun that he will not commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and we all know that you don't like people making their own choices

Whats hilarious is that he probably supports assisted suicide laws but here he is arguing suicide is a bad thing.

No, just saying more suicides are gun related than whatever, knives pills, hanging?
Actually must look up pills , they may be competitive