Before 1860 secession was considered to be constitutional

[Unkotare]

This is for all you servile turds who believe the Constitution outlaws secession:

"During the weeks following the [1860] election, [Northern newspaper] editors of all parties assumed that secession as a constitutional right was not in question . . . . On the contrary, the southern claim to a right of peaceable withdrawal was countenanced out of reverence for the natural law principle of government by consent of the governed."

~ Howard Cecil Perkins, editor, Northern Editorials on Secession, p. 10

The first several generations of Americans understood that the Declaration of Independence was the ultimate states’ rights document. The citizens of the states would delegate certain powers to a central government in their Constitution, and these powers (mostly for national defense and foreign policy purposes) would hopefully be exercised for the benefit of the citizens of the "free and independent" states, as they are called in the Declaration.

The understanding was that if American citizens were in fact to be the masters rather than the servants of government, they themselves would have to police the national government that was created by them for their mutual benefit. If the day ever came that the national government became the sole arbiter of the limits of its own powers, then Americans would live under a tyranny as bad or worse than the one the colonists fought a revolution against. As the above quotation denotes, the ultimate natural law principle behind this thinking was Jefferson’s famous dictum in the Declaration of Independence that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and that whenever that consent is withdrawn the people of the free and independent states, as sovereigns, have a duty to abolish that government and replace it with a new one if they wish.

This was the fundamental understanding of the meaning of the Declaration of Independence – that it was a Declaration of Secession from the British empire – of the first several generations of Americans. As the 1, 107-page book, Northern Editorials on Secession shows, this view was held just as widely in the Northern states as in the Southern states in 1860-1861. Among the lone dissenters was Abe Lincoln, a corporate lawyer/lobbyist/politician with less than a year of formal education who probably never even read The Federalist Papers.​

What Americans Used To Know About the Declaration of Independence by Thomas DiLorenzo

Then the confederate states shouldn't have started the civil war.

Lincoln started the war. He invaded the South.

You're just a boot-licking Lincoln worshiping moron.

The question was settled at great cost, and you are just going to have to learn to get over it sooner or later.

 

[bripat9643]

It kinda does, "retard".

You don't win wars by being weak.

So black slaves deserved to be black slaves? Is that really what you're saying, retard?

I dont know why dont you read the confederate constitution where it says black people will always be slaves and inferior to their confederate white people. Paraphrasing of course.

It is sad your so ignorant of history that you idolized confederates who caused the deaths of more Americans then any war fought.

What does the confederate constitution have to do with sallow's claim that if you have the might to impose your will on other people than whatever you do to them is justified?

Lincoln is the one who caused all the deaths. He invaded the South.

All you Lincoln cult members have blinders on that prevent you from seeing the facts.

 

[bripat9643]

Then the confederate states shouldn't have started the civil war.

Lincoln started the war. He invaded the South.

You're just a boot-licking Lincoln worshiping moron.

The question was settled at great cost, and you are just going to have to learn to get over it sooner or later.

It was only "settled" in the minds of willfully blind bootp-licking morons.

 

[thanatos144]

Occupying Fort Sumter was an act of war. Attempting to resupply it was another act of war. All you lying Lincoln cult members are trying desperately to ignore those facts. That shows you know the truth of the matter. You just don't give a fuck about the truth.

Jesus what the fuck did they teach you in history???? Sumter was always a union base.

No it wasn't. The property was within the borders of South Carolina. That makes it Carolina territory. If a country tells the American government to remove it's troops from within its territory, then the American government had better do it. Otherwise its committing an act of war.

Let me get this right.... In your warped brain because a base was in South Carolina it was not a union base??????? Are you this retarded? Right now we have NO bases around the world right?

 

[bripat9643]

Lincoln preserved the Union. The rebels who started the war and fired its first shots were defeated, then punished far more gently than justice might have dictated and that many at the time would have found understandable. Lincoln remains our greatest President from our most perilous hour.

They must be teaching some fucked up stuff about Lincoln that so many think him a traitor.

No, it's just that sour grapes are being served at a lot of school lunches in some locations.

Apparently drugs that cause brain damage are being served where you eat lunch.

 

[Unkotare]

Lincoln was the traitor. He's the one who made war on states of the union. He also flushed the Constitution down the toilet.

Lincoln preserved the Union. The rebels who started the war and fired its first shots were defeated, then punished far more gently than justice might have dictated and that many at the time would have found understandable. Lincoln remains our greatest President from our most perilous hour.

Lincoln destroyed the union. Prior to the Civil War, the union was a voluntary association of sovereign states.

I know you miss the Articles of Confederation, but the ghosts you want to dance with got to the party far too late.

 

[thanatos144]

Lincoln started the war. He invaded the South.

You're just a boot-licking Lincoln worshiping moron.

The question was settled at great cost, and you are just going to have to learn to get over it sooner or later.

It was only "settled" in the minds of willfully blind bootp-licking morons.

Thats what people who dont want to worship slave owning assholes who started a war that killed more american then any other war are? If there is something all Americans should feel shame about it is slavery AND the confederates states coming into existence because of slavery. I guess the confederates did do one thing though... They showed we are a far stronger country together then apart.

 

[bripat9643]

Jesus what the fuck did they teach you in history???? Sumter was always a union base.

No it wasn't. The property was within the borders of South Carolina. That makes it Carolina territory. If a country tells the American government to remove it's troops from within its territory, then the American government had better do it. Otherwise its committing an act of war.

Let me get this right.... In your warped brain because a base was in South Carolina it was not a union base??????? Are you this retarded? Right now we have NO bases around the world right?

You really are an incredible retard. Subic Bay is an American naval base, but the territory it sits on is part of the nation of the Philippines. If they tell us to get the hell out, then we can do nothing but get the hell out. It's Philippine territory, and Fort Sumter was sitting on the territory of South Carolina. Only a moron would attempt to dispute the fact.

 

[Unkotare]

They must be teaching some fucked up stuff about Lincoln that so many think him a traitor.

No, it's just that sour grapes are being served at a lot of school lunches in some locations.

Apparently drugs that cause brain damage are being served where you eat lunch.

That might make it easier to tolerate reading your hysterical and absurdly futile attempts are re-'fighting' a war long over. The outcome is the same.

 

[bripat9643]

The question was settled at great cost, and you are just going to have to learn to get over it sooner or later.

It was only "settled" in the minds of willfully blind bootp-licking morons.

Thats what people who dont want to worship slave owning assholes who started a war that killed more american then any other war? If there is something all Americans should feel shame about it is slavery AND the confederates states coming into existence because of slavery. I guess the confederates did do one thing thought... They showed we are a far stronger country together then apart.

Lincoln started the war. He turned this nation into an empire of subjects. You're obviously happy to be one.

 

[bripat9643]

No, it's just that sour grapes are being served at a lot of school lunches in some locations.

Apparently drugs that cause brain damage are being served where you eat lunch.

That might make it easier to tolerate reading your hysterical and absurdly futile attempts are re-'fighting' a war long over. The outcome is the same.

I'm sure you find the facts distressing. The blinders turds like you wear are impenetrable.

 

[bripat9643]

Lincoln preserved the Union. The rebels who started the war and fired its first shots were defeated, then punished far more gently than justice might have dictated and that many at the time would have found understandable. Lincoln remains our greatest President from our most perilous hour.

Lincoln destroyed the union. Prior to the Civil War, the union was a voluntary association of sovereign states.

I know you miss the Articles of Confederation, but the ghosts you want to dance with got to the party far too late.

That isn't an argument that justifies Lincoln's invasion of the Southern States. Furthermore, the Constitution existed prior to the Civil War, numb nuts.

 

[thanatos144]

It was only "settled" in the minds of willfully blind bootp-licking morons.

Thats what people who dont want to worship slave owning assholes who started a war that killed more american then any other war? If there is something all Americans should feel shame about it is slavery AND the confederates states coming into existence because of slavery. I guess the confederates did do one thing thought... They showed we are a far stronger country together then apart.

Lincoln started the war. He turned this nation into an empire of subjects. You're obviously happy to be one.

Again he didn't. Confederates attacked Sumter an act of war because Lincoln would not allow slavery in the new territories... Thats history. that's truth. You need to stop listening to what ever the south will rise again redneck is telling you about it because he is dreadfully ignorant of facts.

 

[Unkotare]

If Southerners were traitors, then why weren't any of them tried for treason after the war?

There were more than a few calls to do so.

Very generous forbearance for the sake of fellow AMERICANS. Forbearance an ungrateful revisionist like you would surely have not deserved. Congratulations on being born far too late to worry about it. Condolences on being born far too late to do anything about it but make an ass of yourself online like this.

 

[thanatos144]

Lincoln destroyed the union. Prior to the Civil War, the union was a voluntary association of sovereign states.

I know you miss the Articles of Confederation, but the ghosts you want to dance with got to the party far too late.

That isn't an argument that justifies Lincoln's invasion of the Southern States. Furthermore, the Constitution existed prior to the Civil War, numb nuts.

The very fact that you think this true say much about your intelligence and understanding of historical fact.

 

[thanatos144]

If Southerners were traitors, then why weren't any of them tried for treason after the war?

There were more than a few calls to do so.

Very generous forbearance for the sake of fellow AMERICANS. Forbearance an ungrateful revisionist like you would surely have not deserved. Congratulations on being born far too late to worry about it. Condolences on being born far too late to do anything about it but make an ass of yourself online like this.

I dont think he realizes the people just wanted the war over and trails of treason would have done nothing to help that....Besides it was also one of the concessions of Lees surrender.

 

[bripat9643]

I know you miss the Articles of Confederation, but the ghosts you want to dance with got to the party far too late.

That isn't an argument that justifies Lincoln's invasion of the Southern States. Furthermore, the Constitution existed prior to the Civil War, numb nuts.

The very fact that you think this true say much about your intelligence and understanding of historical fact.

You're an imbecile who isn't worth arguing with.

 

[Unkotare]

Confederates attacked Sumter an act of war because Lincoln would not allow slavery in the new territories... .

He didn't even have to (or would have had the authority to) go that far to set off the nihilistic insanity of the rebels. Merely allowing territories to decide the matter for themselves upon becoming new states brought the long simmering stew of regional, representative, and yes moral conflict to a boil. It turns out that boiling pot got poured over the heads of the foolhardy rebels through no one's fault but their own.

The screeching nut here who wishes it had been otherwise cannot change that.

 

[bripat9643]

If Southerners were traitors, then why weren't any of them tried for treason after the war?

There were more than a few calls to do so.

Very generous forbearance for the sake of fellow AMERICANS. Forbearance an ungrateful revisionist like you would surely have not deserved. Congratulations on being born far too late to worry about it. Condolences on being born far too late to do anything about it but make an ass of yourself online like this.

"Generous" my ass. that's not the reason. They knew if they had trials then the whole issue of the legality of the war would get dragged through the courts. The union thugs would lose that battle. Furthermore, that might open the issue of union war crimes. Half of the Union government deserved to be hanged on that account.

 

[squeeze berry]

You don't see him lamenting over Indians, Africans or basically anyone that had to submit to the heel of America.

But Confederates?

"Don't cry for me Argentina!"

this is coming from the same tolerant iib quoted in my signature

what fucking hypocrite

You're right.

I am intolerant of Confederate Traitors who sought to enslave human beings.

You are.

Hence the rift.

now I'm a slave owner