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You can't be this stupid. He issued an EO imposing "catch and release." People caught crossing the border illegally will no longer be detained. They will be released into the general population. That's the equivalent of a wide-open border. Also, they will no longer be deported if they have a criminal record.I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Thats a stretch... Asylum seekers vs open borders, there is a difference... I do agree that opening borders is not smart during a pandemic so I would be curious what the protocol is for people who do come through and how things have changed. I read the EO from the Whitehouse and the language reads quite different than the Texas and NY Post articles paint it.This:I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Biden reinstates ‘catch and release’ policy at the southern border
The Biden administration has revived the so-called “catch and release” system when it comes to dealing with illegal immigrants at the southern border. President Biden on Tuesday signed …nypost.com
‘Catch and release’ resumes in South Texas, mayor says; Biden order reinstates policy
The Biden administration has re-implemented the Obama-era border security method of “catch and release” of undocumented migrants caught along the U.S./Mexico border of South Texas, Bord…www.kxan.com
“Federal officers are not doing any COVID testing for immigrants coming across,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez told the outlet. “So we actually reached out to the state of Texas, to the governor’s office. And they quickly sent us thousands of test kits so that we could supply the charity taking these people in.”
Since the pandemic began and travel restrictions with Mexico were imposed in March 2020, undocumented migrants apprehended on the border have been immediately expelled and were not eligible for parole in the United States.
That left the Humanitarian Respite Center empty many days, and for the past few months the center has offered overnight bed space and meals to the homeless.
So instead of keeping the country safer and helping our homeless we are letting in illegals and taking up precious resources to help non-tax payers. How is that remotely logical and unifying?
Thats not equivalent to an open border. Nice try but your just displaying your stupidity yet again.You can't be this stupid. He issued an EO imposing "catch and release." People caught crossing the border illegally will no longer be detained. They will be released into the general population. That's the equivalent of a wide-open border. Also, they will no longer be deported if they have a criminal record.I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Thats not equivalent to an open border. Nice try but your just displaying your stupidity yet again.
How is it different?Thats not equivalent to an open border. Nice try but your just displaying your stupidity yet again.You can't be this stupid. He issued an EO imposing "catch and release." People caught crossing the border illegally will no longer be detained. They will be released into the general population. That's the equivalent of a wide-open border. Also, they will no longer be deported if they have a criminal record.I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Except the people on the ground are telling the truth. To me it is equivalent to open borders. If I am in Mexico, I cross over, get a free test and likely a free vaccine, then I am released. Life is good. But this isn't the time to do it IMO.Thats a stretch... Asylum seekers vs open borders, there is a difference... I do agree that opening borders is not smart during a pandemic so I would be curious what the protocol is for people who do come through and how things have changed. I read the EO from the Whitehouse and the language reads quite different than the Texas and NY Post articles paint it.This:I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Biden reinstates ‘catch and release’ policy at the southern border
The Biden administration has revived the so-called “catch and release” system when it comes to dealing with illegal immigrants at the southern border. President Biden on Tuesday signed …
‘Catch and release’ resumes in South Texas, mayor says; Biden order reinstates policy
The Biden administration has re-implemented the Obama-era border security method of “catch and release” of undocumented migrants caught along the U.S./Mexico border of South Texas, Bord…
“Federal officers are not doing any COVID testing for immigrants coming across,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez told the outlet. “So we actually reached out to the state of Texas, to the governor’s office. And they quickly sent us thousands of test kits so that we could supply the charity taking these people in.”
Since the pandemic began and travel restrictions with Mexico were imposed in March 2020, undocumented migrants apprehended on the border have been immediately expelled and were not eligible for parole in the United States.
That left the Humanitarian Respite Center empty many days, and for the past few months the center has offered overnight bed space and meals to the homeless.
So instead of keeping the country safer and helping our homeless we are letting in illegals and taking up precious resources to help non-tax payers. How is that remotely logical and unifying?
It is certainly not a closed border like it was under DJT.Thats not equivalent to an open border. Nice try but your just displaying your stupidity yet again.You can't be this stupid. He issued an EO imposing "catch and release." People caught crossing the border illegally will no longer be detained. They will be released into the general population. That's the equivalent of a wide-open border. Also, they will no longer be deported if they have a criminal record.I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Except for that’s not realityThats not equivalent to an open border. Nice try but your just displaying your stupidity yet again.
It's the definition of an open border. No one turned away, ever.
I very much doubt that is how it works. Do you have evidence showing that’s the policy? Anybody gets to come in and get medical care?Except the people on the ground are telling the truth. To me it is equivalent to open borders. If I am in Mexico, I cross over, get a free test and likely a free vaccine, then I am released. Life is good. But this isn't the time to do it IMO.Thats a stretch... Asylum seekers vs open borders, there is a difference... I do agree that opening borders is not smart during a pandemic so I would be curious what the protocol is for people who do come through and how things have changed. I read the EO from the Whitehouse and the language reads quite different than the Texas and NY Post articles paint it.This:I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Biden reinstates ‘catch and release’ policy at the southern border
The Biden administration has revived the so-called “catch and release” system when it comes to dealing with illegal immigrants at the southern border. President Biden on Tuesday signed …
‘Catch and release’ resumes in South Texas, mayor says; Biden order reinstates policy
The Biden administration has re-implemented the Obama-era border security method of “catch and release” of undocumented migrants caught along the U.S./Mexico border of South Texas, Bord…
“Federal officers are not doing any COVID testing for immigrants coming across,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez told the outlet. “So we actually reached out to the state of Texas, to the governor’s office. And they quickly sent us thousands of test kits so that we could supply the charity taking these people in.”
Since the pandemic began and travel restrictions with Mexico were imposed in March 2020, undocumented migrants apprehended on the border have been immediately expelled and were not eligible for parole in the United States.
That left the Humanitarian Respite Center empty many days, and for the past few months the center has offered overnight bed space and meals to the homeless.
So instead of keeping the country safer and helping our homeless we are letting in illegals and taking up precious resources to help non-tax payers. How is that remotely logical and unifying?
Except for that’s not reality
I suuuuuuure doI very much doubt that is how it works. Do you have evidence showing that’s the policy? Anybody gets to come in and get medical care?Except the people on the ground are telling the truth. To me it is equivalent to open borders. If I am in Mexico, I cross over, get a free test and likely a free vaccine, then I am released. Life is good. But this isn't the time to do it IMO.Thats a stretch... Asylum seekers vs open borders, there is a difference... I do agree that opening borders is not smart during a pandemic so I would be curious what the protocol is for people who do come through and how things have changed. I read the EO from the Whitehouse and the language reads quite different than the Texas and NY Post articles paint it.This:I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Biden reinstates ‘catch and release’ policy at the southern border
The Biden administration has revived the so-called “catch and release” system when it comes to dealing with illegal immigrants at the southern border. President Biden on Tuesday signed …
‘Catch and release’ resumes in South Texas, mayor says; Biden order reinstates policy
The Biden administration has re-implemented the Obama-era border security method of “catch and release” of undocumented migrants caught along the U.S./Mexico border of South Texas, Bord…
“Federal officers are not doing any COVID testing for immigrants coming across,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez told the outlet. “So we actually reached out to the state of Texas, to the governor’s office. And they quickly sent us thousands of test kits so that we could supply the charity taking these people in.”
Since the pandemic began and travel restrictions with Mexico were imposed in March 2020, undocumented migrants apprehended on the border have been immediately expelled and were not eligible for parole in the United States.
That left the Humanitarian Respite Center empty many days, and for the past few months the center has offered overnight bed space and meals to the homeless.
So instead of keeping the country safer and helping our homeless we are letting in illegals and taking up precious resources to help non-tax payers. How is that remotely logical and unifying?
www.statnews.com
First of all I don’t know what lie you think I’m holding to. Can you explain?I guess if I were to take your advice then you’d also have to take it as well right? If that voice in my head could be wrong then that voice in yoir head could also be wrong. Where you saw a perfectly handled event perhaps you heard it wrong and he was actually being dismissive of the Nazi hate and giving them cover. Perhaps he was provoking conflict. Can you admit that is a possibility? How would it hurt you to admit that?Nothing would change for me except for I’d be lying if I complimented how he handled that situation. I watched his pressers live. I didn’t need any media spin or interpretation. My jaw dropped when I was listening to Trump as he spoke Live.I have no problem giving Trump credit for actions I support. I’ve done it many times. This is not one of those times. He condemns the speaker of the house with more vigor than he condemned killer Nazis. And then tried to change the subject to focus on the Left. It was pathetic. And when people erupted over it he did nothing to try and clear it up. He wanted the controversy. He thrives off itThe pretzels y’all twist yourselves into trying to make excuses for this turd amazes me. We had literal Nazis with torches, one of whom drove a car through a crowd a killed a girl but you’d rather talk about the evil left mob. How is anybody supposed to take you seriously?!Im not making excuses for the media. I've said anybody that claims that Trump was calling Nazis fine people is not being honest. I am pointing out the fault in how Trump handled the situation. He didn't need to call Nazis fine people, what he did was extremely poor leadership and antagonistic which is his nature. He wanted controversy IMO. Its all a troll game to him and we the people suffer as a result.You don't take the focus off the fact that Nazi's were marching our streets yelling blood and soil to poke at Antifa. I'm sorry but when ugliness like that hits our streets and takes a life you squash it with force and clarity.It was wrong for anybody to say that Trump was calling Nazi's very fine people when he was talking about protestors who wanted to protect statues. It is a fair point to criticize Trump for the weak denunciation of the Nazis and then the subject change to try and blame the left and then compliment the fine people who were there for the statues? Where they fuck did that come from and why is he talking that way after a torch Nazi rally and the murder of a woman?!?!? He could have easily clarified and poured water on the issue but he didn't. He wanted to controversy in my opinion.Nothing comes close, to the Very Fine People lie.Yes the fire was burning before Trump. But he was the gasoline that took all this none sense into hyperdrive. The wingnuts like Bri and uncensored are trying to keep it going with all the retarded Nazi talk but we already see the tensions mellowing with a calmer more boring figure like Biden at the helm. You may disagree with his policies but you have to admit the discourse is getting better than it has been and needs to keep going in the right directionTrump is the effect not the cause. Twitter was highly Antisemitic before Trump ran. The fact that you can’t see that is mind boggling. You keep punching me in the face and when I punch back you call me a bully. That’s what happened with Trump and those who supported him.I guess you can blame social media and media in general for some of that as then enable the pumping of hyperbolic rhetoric but you know that the majority of the cause for such animus lies with Trump himself, right? Such an ugly and divisive figure who trolled and lashed out at others. Each of your examples is pointing to your own friends, family and coworkers as the ones who are limiting your comfort to express yourself. These aren't robots or political operatives these are people you know and they are acting this way because they are deeply offended and insulted by the actions of our President over the past 4 years.#1) Social Media. If I go on FB and or Twitter and post "DJT was a great President" I will likely get called a racist like 100x and maybe worse.What elements of our society/politics do you think are discouraging open communication and why?Therein lies the problem. Open communication is frowned upon.wow, thats very interesting. Doesn't seem like any of those have a tangible effect on the day to day life issues that most people deal with... employment, income, taxes, resources, education, crime, etc.What are your top 3 interests?Do you think all inequality problems are solved in this nation? Do you think there is equal voice, power and representation in local communities all over this nation? You ask why have racially focused programs... well cause a few presidential appointments doesn't solve the issues. Its a good step but many other steps need to be taken.Yes I think he will make an effort to give them voice. He already has through the people he has appointed into power within his administration. Kudos for thatFair points... I brought up golf exactly for the reasons you laid out. You are wrong though it is an amazing game... But it is expensive and it takes a lot of time and thats largely why it is dominated by whites. Yes, Tiger Woods is perhaps the best golfer ever and he is Black. Most other major sports in this country are dominated by Blacks so we know they have incredible athletic ability but they dominate in sports that they can play in their neighborhoods, that don't require expensive equipment, polo shirts, and the kind of expenses that golf and other sports require. It is an example of how money and power effect social standing, access, and opportunity.#1) I hate Golf. Best ever golfer = Tiger Woods. I guess? I do not watch Golf. It is a VERY expensive sport. I would state that very few white players if any come from a working class family background. It is a game for the wealthy just like polo.Do you think the sport of Golf is dominated by whites because whites are inherently better at the game or because of another reason? I'll save the back and forth and assume we both know that money and social class play a large roll in it. This is a better example of how privilege plays into our society. Elements of our society that require money or higher education are largely dominated by whites. While laws have been put in place to try and eliminate the system oppression that was quite literally in our nations laws from its inception till the 1960's you have to be able to recognize that things don't all just change. with the signing of legislation. Right?I view the term as this way. When we play basketball and someone sprains an ankle and cannot move as well do I have two leg privilege? No, he has one leg disadvantage. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in life. The only true privilege in America is economic privilege. As I always tell my kids, this country is not systemically racist and they don't have white privilege. There is nothing that a black young person cannot legally do in this country that they can.That's what the term "white privilege" means, asshole. It means you should feel guilty simply because you are white. Otherwise, why use it?No you are not guilty of a crime for being white. Just guilty of being a dumbshit but thats because of your posts here on the board.The term "white privilege" is intended to imply that I'm guilty of some kind of crime simply because I'm white.I don't like the term white privilege, I see it as inflammatory. Do you really not understand what it is referring to? No it hasn't been gone for well over 100 years. Civil Rights act was in the 60's. The effect of centuries of oppression doesn't just magically go away when a new law is passedSo "white privilege" is something that has been gone for well over 100 years.
Take your "white privilege" and stick it where the sun don't shine. The entire south suffers to this day from the crimes committed during the Civil War. You don't see anyone blubbering about "Yankee privilege," now do you?
Not only do you accuse white people of having committed a crime of some kind, you deny that you are accusing them of it.
Why should anyone give a fuck about "white privilege" if it doesn't mean white people are guilty of something that they need to make amends for?
#2) 6% of the US population consists of black males but they represent 85% of the NBA and 70% of the NFL, respectively. Some people are just better at sports than others. There are more Jewish NFL owners than players. We all have our core competencies I guess? But statistics can also be misleading.
#3) The primary reason for black disadvantage is the single family unit. In the 60s only 20% of Black Families had one parent, today it is 75%. We are not more racist today than we were in the 60s, I don't think so anyway but Gov't programs and such have festered to create this dynamic. In fact a black child with two parents is more likely to be successful than a white child with one parent. This is why Jews and Asians are the most successful, lowest number of single family homes. Close knit family structures.
#4) We have racist people in America and the world but blacks are the most affluent in America. This is the best place for black and white folks IMO but especially for black folks. Europe is dangerously racist.
#5) I believe if we treated everyone equally and not provide special programs for blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, etc., we would all be better off. I am a Jew and I do not want any programs to help specifically Jews. I would find that abominable. Just treat everyone fairly. I believe capitalism does that as best it can. Notice how many no longer consider Asians to be minorities and even Harvard is turning them away because of the level of wealth and prosperity they achieved in America...wealthiest class.
I agree with you in the most part when it comes to race specific programs. I think it better to focus programs on income level and impoverished areas. Infrastructure and education being the most important elements. I agree on the importance of the family unit, and I agree that America is still a country that represents equal opportunity for all. That doesn't mean we don't have problems and that we can't do better.
I will make one more point. For generations the power structure has been held by whites. That means whites has the most control over making our laws and regulations and shaping the course of our society. Minorities were systematically oppressed for a long time and have not had the opportunity to grow into the positions of power and wealth as whites. These things take time and often generations to get there. I do support programs that can give voice to these minorities. The kind of voice that those who do have money, wealth and power have. So in that aspect I so support racially focused programs.
Do you not thing that Biden will be speaking out for those minorities?
So, why the need for "racially focused programs" when Biden is giving them a voice, a very powerful voice and policies and money and blah, blah, blah, already?
I do not think that Biden will be speaking for me. In fact, i think Biden thinks of me as a problem, not a citizen who needs or deserves anything.
Discrimination in favor of one race, is discrimination AGAINST other races, when you are discriminating with limited resources, such as money or access.
You want me to wait until ALL other inequality problems are solved until I am allowed to have a turn at having my interests represented? And that is a qualified maybe anyways?
Biden talks shit about unity. We cannot have unity when government policy is to shit on huge blocs of people, in favor of other large blocs of people.
That is a plan for civil war, not healing.
At this point,
1. That the very idea of me having interests, is not taboo.
2. Freedom of speech, so that as oppression increases, we can call it out for what it is.
3. Justice for our political prisoners.
I'm not dismissing your priorities, just wasn't expecting those to top the list
I personally am financially ok and making my goals.
I do care about the financial outlook for my peers, family and friends who are less secure.
I lumped those more general and less personal interests under number one, in that over the last four years it has been demonstrated that in our society today, it is taboo for me to even state that I have interests as a group that should be considered in policy.
Those minorities you talk of? It is great for them to speak out, or to have someone speak out for them and their interests.
Me? If I say ANYTHING, even simply identifying myself or my group, I am immediately smeared as a wacist and marginalized and shouted down.
Why did you ask your question? What point were you angling towards?
#2) Places of employment. My wife cannot say how she feels unless it's leftist mantra.
#3) Even families have been torn apart. My niece won't speak with her dad because he voted for Trump.
Three examples right there
They are doing this because they denounce the vitriol that Trump represented. People like you, I know see it but you probably excuse it because he is progressing an agenda you agree with or because you think the people he attacks deserve it. But many people just see a bully picking on others and fostering hate and division. It really didn't need to be that way if he could have acted like a responsible leader instead of an egomaniac.
What happened was more complex than simply a bunch of neo-nazis attacking people, which is the way that the media wanted to spin it.
The American people could easily have understood that.
The American People could easily have grasped the idea that both the radical lefty Antifa types AND the neo-nazis were "very bad people" while other people there, both for and against the statues included many "very fine people".
I think Trump would have LOVED it, if the Media had reported his words honestly and let the discussion of that event go down that road, ie of American society as a whole condemning both the far left and the far right, while accepting the legitimacy of the disagreement between the left leaning center and the right leaning center.
The American People would have no trouble understanding that there were TWO groups of bad people there and both needed condemned and dealt with.
YOu are making excuses for hte media lying to the American people.
What can be more divisive, than telling half the country that the President is sympathetic to ws?
AND at the same time, telling the other half, "hey, because you support a ws, you are evul and nothing you say counts".
What he did was great leadership.
This country is NOT facing a resurgence of nazis. It is facing a long standing fringe survival of nazis AND a violent uprising of leftist mobs.
That his leadership was sabotaged by a media allied with the violent far left, is not on Trump, it is on the media.
His nature might be antagonistic, but on that day, he rose above it, and handled it very well. He was clear, explicit and right on the money.
It is troll game TO THE MEDIA. Trump, imo, wanted to do a good job as President, for whatever personal reasons, and on that day he did the best any President could do.
It would have been EASY, to give the violent left a pass and join in on bashing the nazis.
BUT, that would have given a victory to the real threat, and empowered the violent LEFT.
As it was, they got the victory anyways, thanks to their allied, the media.
And we see the result. Years of political violence in the streets.
There are many valid criticisms to make about Trump, (as with any person). On every policy issue, there are legitimate grounds for reasonable disagreement.
BUT, if you cannot give him credit for his response to Charlottesville, you are not being reasonable.
We already discussed the nazis and you, me and Trump all agree that they need condemned and Trump did so.
You are clearly using the emotional image of torch wielding nazis to distract from my point about you being unable to be reasonable when it comes to Trump.
That, btw, is YOU, twisting yourself into a pretzel, to avoid admitting the Truth.
Here is another question for you, that you will not like.
IF, you admitted that Trump, THIS ONE TIME, did well and did properly condemn ws and nazis,
what would it change in your political or cultural life?
I mean, you could easily go, "Well, yes, I admit Trump did good that one time, BUT, I still oppose him on nearly all policies and still find him to be a bad person and still think that his conduct in nearly every other incident was bad."
Couldn't you?
(This is somewhat of a trick question, and I think we both know why)
We are past that.
My question to you stands. What would change for you, if you admitted that he did almost perfectly in handling the charlottesville incident?
Would you have had to vote for him? No.
Would you have to support his trade or immigration policies? No.
Would you have to... sleep with a porn star? No.
What are you so afraid of?
(sort of a trick question, we both know why)
I’m not afraid to compliment him. I just don’t see anything he did worthy of compliment
I think you know that that is not true.
That bit where your jaw dropped? That was your confirmation bias talking to you, over top of Trump's words.
IF you admitted to yourself this time, that that voice in your head was wrong, you would have to face up to the possibility that it could be wrong other times.
At some level, you know how fragile your world view is. That is why you avoid challenging it. You have a nice self image of yourself as a good person, because you believe the right things and are on the right side of history.
And you don't want to lose that.
If Trump was actually sympathetic to ws and nazis? It would crush my world view.
It would mean that me and my fellow conservatives were blind to the level of real racism (and anti-semitism) in the republican party, indeed in the nation as whole.
I would have to reexamine just about EVERYTHING, I thought I knew about the world, in light of this new information.
Which is why you hold to the Lie so much, even though it has been rubbed in your face over and over again.
Note that is not me that keeps this discussion going in a circle. It is you that once we reach a certain point, returns to a previous point of discussion, to use emotional imagery to reset the discussion to avoid looking at points.
Second, I think the fact that I have nothing significant vested either way while you just admitted that if you believed the opposing view it would crush your world view... well that supports a case that perhaps you are the one being closed minded to the situation.
last point...the reality of most situations usually lies somewhere in the middle. Especially with politics. In this case I don’t think Trump is a racist. I think he is an opportunist. I think he will downplay and provoke racists if he thinks he can gain a benefit. I think he has done this. Some look at that alone and would consider that enabling which they consider racist. Others want to see direct expressions of hate and discrimination to prove another racist. Trump has done the former and has not done the latter. He is very careful with his words so he can always have a way out. We are seeing that tactic now with the capital raid. He did say peaceful once in his speech and that’s what he will be leaning on. It’s all a game
Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationI’m not ignoring anybody. I’m talking to you right now. I’m listening to your points and addressing them directly. What more do you want?Nationalistic hardliners is not meant to be a dig, it’s just what it is. Was Trumps wall crafted by both parties? Did you speak out against what he did to get that funded by our tax payers and not Mexico as he promised?Bidens immigration EOs are not unifying for nationalist hardlinersBiden just allowed catch and release again and for testing for illegals and vaccines for illegals. How does that unify anything? I thought he was supposed to be for change and unity. Instead he gaslights the friction.I have no problem giving Trump credit for actions I support. I’ve done it many times. This is not one of those times. He condemns the speaker of the house with more vigor than he condemned killer Nazis. And then tried to change the subject to focus on the Left. It was pathetic. And when people erupted over it he did nothing to try and clear it up. He wanted the controversy. He thrives off itThe pretzels y’all twist yourselves into trying to make excuses for this turd amazes me. We had literal Nazis with torches, one of whom drove a car through a crowd a killed a girl but you’d rather talk about the evil left mob. How is anybody supposed to take you seriously?!Im not making excuses for the media. I've said anybody that claims that Trump was calling Nazis fine people is not being honest. I am pointing out the fault in how Trump handled the situation. He didn't need to call Nazis fine people, what he did was extremely poor leadership and antagonistic which is his nature. He wanted controversy IMO. Its all a troll game to him and we the people suffer as a result.You don't take the focus off the fact that Nazi's were marching our streets yelling blood and soil to poke at Antifa. I'm sorry but when ugliness like that hits our streets and takes a life you squash it with force and clarity.It was wrong for anybody to say that Trump was calling Nazi's very fine people when he was talking about protestors who wanted to protect statues. It is a fair point to criticize Trump for the weak denunciation of the Nazis and then the subject change to try and blame the left and then compliment the fine people who were there for the statues? Where they fuck did that come from and why is he talking that way after a torch Nazi rally and the murder of a woman?!?!? He could have easily clarified and poured water on the issue but he didn't. He wanted to controversy in my opinion.Nothing comes close, to the Very Fine People lie.Yes the fire was burning before Trump. But he was the gasoline that took all this none sense into hyperdrive. The wingnuts like Bri and uncensored are trying to keep it going with all the retarded Nazi talk but we already see the tensions mellowing with a calmer more boring figure like Biden at the helm. You may disagree with his policies but you have to admit the discourse is getting better than it has been and needs to keep going in the right directionTrump is the effect not the cause. Twitter was highly Antisemitic before Trump ran. The fact that you can’t see that is mind boggling. You keep punching me in the face and when I punch back you call me a bully. That’s what happened with Trump and those who supported him.I guess you can blame social media and media in general for some of that as then enable the pumping of hyperbolic rhetoric but you know that the majority of the cause for such animus lies with Trump himself, right? Such an ugly and divisive figure who trolled and lashed out at others. Each of your examples is pointing to your own friends, family and coworkers as the ones who are limiting your comfort to express yourself. These aren't robots or political operatives these are people you know and they are acting this way because they are deeply offended and insulted by the actions of our President over the past 4 years.#1) Social Media. If I go on FB and or Twitter and post "DJT was a great President" I will likely get called a racist like 100x and maybe worse.What elements of our society/politics do you think are discouraging open communication and why?Therein lies the problem. Open communication is frowned upon.wow, thats very interesting. Doesn't seem like any of those have a tangible effect on the day to day life issues that most people deal with... employment, income, taxes, resources, education, crime, etc.What are your top 3 interests?Do you think all inequality problems are solved in this nation? Do you think there is equal voice, power and representation in local communities all over this nation? You ask why have racially focused programs... well cause a few presidential appointments doesn't solve the issues. Its a good step but many other steps need to be taken.Yes I think he will make an effort to give them voice. He already has through the people he has appointed into power within his administration. Kudos for thatFair points... I brought up golf exactly for the reasons you laid out. You are wrong though it is an amazing game... But it is expensive and it takes a lot of time and thats largely why it is dominated by whites. Yes, Tiger Woods is perhaps the best golfer ever and he is Black. Most other major sports in this country are dominated by Blacks so we know they have incredible athletic ability but they dominate in sports that they can play in their neighborhoods, that don't require expensive equipment, polo shirts, and the kind of expenses that golf and other sports require. It is an example of how money and power effect social standing, access, and opportunity.#1) I hate Golf. Best ever golfer = Tiger Woods. I guess? I do not watch Golf. It is a VERY expensive sport. I would state that very few white players if any come from a working class family background. It is a game for the wealthy just like polo.Do you think the sport of Golf is dominated by whites because whites are inherently better at the game or because of another reason? I'll save the back and forth and assume we both know that money and social class play a large roll in it. This is a better example of how privilege plays into our society. Elements of our society that require money or higher education are largely dominated by whites. While laws have been put in place to try and eliminate the system oppression that was quite literally in our nations laws from its inception till the 1960's you have to be able to recognize that things don't all just change. with the signing of legislation. Right?I view the term as this way. When we play basketball and someone sprains an ankle and cannot move as well do I have two leg privilege? No, he has one leg disadvantage. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in life. The only true privilege in America is economic privilege. As I always tell my kids, this country is not systemically racist and they don't have white privilege. There is nothing that a black young person cannot legally do in this country that they can.That's what the term "white privilege" means, asshole. It means you should feel guilty simply because you are white. Otherwise, why use it?No you are not guilty of a crime for being white. Just guilty of being a dumbshit but thats because of your posts here on the board.The term "white privilege" is intended to imply that I'm guilty of some kind of crime simply because I'm white.I don't like the term white privilege, I see it as inflammatory. Do you really not understand what it is referring to? No it hasn't been gone for well over 100 years. Civil Rights act was in the 60's. The effect of centuries of oppression doesn't just magically go away when a new law is passedSo "white privilege" is something that has been gone for well over 100 years.
Take your "white privilege" and stick it where the sun don't shine. The entire south suffers to this day from the crimes committed during the Civil War. You don't see anyone blubbering about "Yankee privilege," now do you?
Not only do you accuse white people of having committed a crime of some kind, you deny that you are accusing them of it.
Why should anyone give a fuck about "white privilege" if it doesn't mean white people are guilty of something that they need to make amends for?
#2) 6% of the US population consists of black males but they represent 85% of the NBA and 70% of the NFL, respectively. Some people are just better at sports than others. There are more Jewish NFL owners than players. We all have our core competencies I guess? But statistics can also be misleading.
#3) The primary reason for black disadvantage is the single family unit. In the 60s only 20% of Black Families had one parent, today it is 75%. We are not more racist today than we were in the 60s, I don't think so anyway but Gov't programs and such have festered to create this dynamic. In fact a black child with two parents is more likely to be successful than a white child with one parent. This is why Jews and Asians are the most successful, lowest number of single family homes. Close knit family structures.
#4) We have racist people in America and the world but blacks are the most affluent in America. This is the best place for black and white folks IMO but especially for black folks. Europe is dangerously racist.
#5) I believe if we treated everyone equally and not provide special programs for blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, etc., we would all be better off. I am a Jew and I do not want any programs to help specifically Jews. I would find that abominable. Just treat everyone fairly. I believe capitalism does that as best it can. Notice how many no longer consider Asians to be minorities and even Harvard is turning them away because of the level of wealth and prosperity they achieved in America...wealthiest class.
I agree with you in the most part when it comes to race specific programs. I think it better to focus programs on income level and impoverished areas. Infrastructure and education being the most important elements. I agree on the importance of the family unit, and I agree that America is still a country that represents equal opportunity for all. That doesn't mean we don't have problems and that we can't do better.
I will make one more point. For generations the power structure has been held by whites. That means whites has the most control over making our laws and regulations and shaping the course of our society. Minorities were systematically oppressed for a long time and have not had the opportunity to grow into the positions of power and wealth as whites. These things take time and often generations to get there. I do support programs that can give voice to these minorities. The kind of voice that those who do have money, wealth and power have. So in that aspect I so support racially focused programs.
Do you not thing that Biden will be speaking out for those minorities?
So, why the need for "racially focused programs" when Biden is giving them a voice, a very powerful voice and policies and money and blah, blah, blah, already?
I do not think that Biden will be speaking for me. In fact, i think Biden thinks of me as a problem, not a citizen who needs or deserves anything.
Discrimination in favor of one race, is discrimination AGAINST other races, when you are discriminating with limited resources, such as money or access.
You want me to wait until ALL other inequality problems are solved until I am allowed to have a turn at having my interests represented? And that is a qualified maybe anyways?
Biden talks shit about unity. We cannot have unity when government policy is to shit on huge blocs of people, in favor of other large blocs of people.
That is a plan for civil war, not healing.
At this point,
1. That the very idea of me having interests, is not taboo.
2. Freedom of speech, so that as oppression increases, we can call it out for what it is.
3. Justice for our political prisoners.
I'm not dismissing your priorities, just wasn't expecting those to top the list
I personally am financially ok and making my goals.
I do care about the financial outlook for my peers, family and friends who are less secure.
I lumped those more general and less personal interests under number one, in that over the last four years it has been demonstrated that in our society today, it is taboo for me to even state that I have interests as a group that should be considered in policy.
Those minorities you talk of? It is great for them to speak out, or to have someone speak out for them and their interests.
Me? If I say ANYTHING, even simply identifying myself or my group, I am immediately smeared as a wacist and marginalized and shouted down.
Why did you ask your question? What point were you angling towards?
#2) Places of employment. My wife cannot say how she feels unless it's leftist mantra.
#3) Even families have been torn apart. My niece won't speak with her dad because he voted for Trump.
Three examples right there
They are doing this because they denounce the vitriol that Trump represented. People like you, I know see it but you probably excuse it because he is progressing an agenda you agree with or because you think the people he attacks deserve it. But many people just see a bully picking on others and fostering hate and division. It really didn't need to be that way if he could have acted like a responsible leader instead of an egomaniac.
What happened was more complex than simply a bunch of neo-nazis attacking people, which is the way that the media wanted to spin it.
The American people could easily have understood that.
The American People could easily have grasped the idea that both the radical lefty Antifa types AND the neo-nazis were "very bad people" while other people there, both for and against the statues included many "very fine people".
I think Trump would have LOVED it, if the Media had reported his words honestly and let the discussion of that event go down that road, ie of American society as a whole condemning both the far left and the far right, while accepting the legitimacy of the disagreement between the left leaning center and the right leaning center.
The American People would have no trouble understanding that there were TWO groups of bad people there and both needed condemned and dealt with.
YOu are making excuses for hte media lying to the American people.
What can be more divisive, than telling half the country that the President is sympathetic to ws?
AND at the same time, telling the other half, "hey, because you support a ws, you are evul and nothing you say counts".
What he did was great leadership.
This country is NOT facing a resurgence of nazis. It is facing a long standing fringe survival of nazis AND a violent uprising of leftist mobs.
That his leadership was sabotaged by a media allied with the violent far left, is not on Trump, it is on the media.
His nature might be antagonistic, but on that day, he rose above it, and handled it very well. He was clear, explicit and right on the money.
It is troll game TO THE MEDIA. Trump, imo, wanted to do a good job as President, for whatever personal reasons, and on that day he did the best any President could do.
It would have been EASY, to give the violent left a pass and join in on bashing the nazis.
BUT, that would have given a victory to the real threat, and empowered the violent LEFT.
As it was, they got the victory anyways, thanks to their allied, the media.
And we see the result. Years of political violence in the streets.
There are many valid criticisms to make about Trump, (as with any person). On every policy issue, there are legitimate grounds for reasonable disagreement.
BUT, if you cannot give him credit for his response to Charlottesville, you are not being reasonable.
We already discussed the nazis and you, me and Trump all agree that they need condemned and Trump did so.
You are clearly using the emotional image of torch wielding nazis to distract from my point about you being unable to be reasonable when it comes to Trump.
That, btw, is YOU, twisting yourself into a pretzel, to avoid admitting the Truth.
Here is another question for you, that you will not like.
IF, you admitted that Trump, THIS ONE TIME, did well and did properly condemn ws and nazis,
what would it change in your political or cultural life?
I mean, you could easily go, "Well, yes, I admit Trump did good that one time, BUT, I still oppose him on nearly all policies and still find him to be a bad person and still think that his conduct in nearly every other incident was bad."
Couldn't you?
(This is somewhat of a trick question, and I think we both know why)
We crafted our immigration laws together as a nation. Biden, with his catch and release is effectively ignoring those laws and thus the voices of the large blocs of citizens that were represented in those laws.
Calling them, "nationalistic hardliners" does not make it not divisive.
It just gives you an excuse for dividing those people out, from the group and dismissing them.
My point was NOT that it was a "dig", but that it gave you an excuse to ignore those blocs of people.
Ignoring people, dismissing them, marginalizing them, is divisive.
You are being divisive.
You and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
19 dead during the BLM riots. How big of a list do you want?The pretzels y’all twist yourselves into trying to make excuses for this turd amazes me. We had literal Nazis with torches, one of whom drove a car through a crowd a killed a girl but you’d rather talk about the evil left mob. How is anybody supposed to take you seriously?!Im not making excuses for the media. I've said anybody that claims that Trump was calling Nazis fine people is not being honest. I am pointing out the fault in how Trump handled the situation. He didn't need to call Nazis fine people, what he did was extremely poor leadership and antagonistic which is his nature. He wanted controversy IMO. Its all a troll game to him and we the people suffer as a result.You don't take the focus off the fact that Nazi's were marching our streets yelling blood and soil to poke at Antifa. I'm sorry but when ugliness like that hits our streets and takes a life you squash it with force and clarity.It was wrong for anybody to say that Trump was calling Nazi's very fine people when he was talking about protestors who wanted to protect statues. It is a fair point to criticize Trump for the weak denunciation of the Nazis and then the subject change to try and blame the left and then compliment the fine people who were there for the statues? Where they fuck did that come from and why is he talking that way after a torch Nazi rally and the murder of a woman?!?!? He could have easily clarified and poured water on the issue but he didn't. He wanted to controversy in my opinion.Nothing comes close, to the Very Fine People lie.Yes the fire was burning before Trump. But he was the gasoline that took all this none sense into hyperdrive. The wingnuts like Bri and uncensored are trying to keep it going with all the retarded Nazi talk but we already see the tensions mellowing with a calmer more boring figure like Biden at the helm. You may disagree with his policies but you have to admit the discourse is getting better than it has been and needs to keep going in the right directionTrump is the effect not the cause. Twitter was highly Antisemitic before Trump ran. The fact that you can’t see that is mind boggling. You keep punching me in the face and when I punch back you call me a bully. That’s what happened with Trump and those who supported him.I guess you can blame social media and media in general for some of that as then enable the pumping of hyperbolic rhetoric but you know that the majority of the cause for such animus lies with Trump himself, right? Such an ugly and divisive figure who trolled and lashed out at others. Each of your examples is pointing to your own friends, family and coworkers as the ones who are limiting your comfort to express yourself. These aren't robots or political operatives these are people you know and they are acting this way because they are deeply offended and insulted by the actions of our President over the past 4 years.#1) Social Media. If I go on FB and or Twitter and post "DJT was a great President" I will likely get called a racist like 100x and maybe worse.What elements of our society/politics do you think are discouraging open communication and why?Therein lies the problem. Open communication is frowned upon.wow, thats very interesting. Doesn't seem like any of those have a tangible effect on the day to day life issues that most people deal with... employment, income, taxes, resources, education, crime, etc.What are your top 3 interests?Do you think all inequality problems are solved in this nation? Do you think there is equal voice, power and representation in local communities all over this nation? You ask why have racially focused programs... well cause a few presidential appointments doesn't solve the issues. Its a good step but many other steps need to be taken.Yes I think he will make an effort to give them voice. He already has through the people he has appointed into power within his administration. Kudos for thatFair points... I brought up golf exactly for the reasons you laid out. You are wrong though it is an amazing game... But it is expensive and it takes a lot of time and thats largely why it is dominated by whites. Yes, Tiger Woods is perhaps the best golfer ever and he is Black. Most other major sports in this country are dominated by Blacks so we know they have incredible athletic ability but they dominate in sports that they can play in their neighborhoods, that don't require expensive equipment, polo shirts, and the kind of expenses that golf and other sports require. It is an example of how money and power effect social standing, access, and opportunity.#1) I hate Golf. Best ever golfer = Tiger Woods. I guess? I do not watch Golf. It is a VERY expensive sport. I would state that very few white players if any come from a working class family background. It is a game for the wealthy just like polo.Do you think the sport of Golf is dominated by whites because whites are inherently better at the game or because of another reason? I'll save the back and forth and assume we both know that money and social class play a large roll in it. This is a better example of how privilege plays into our society. Elements of our society that require money or higher education are largely dominated by whites. While laws have been put in place to try and eliminate the system oppression that was quite literally in our nations laws from its inception till the 1960's you have to be able to recognize that things don't all just change. with the signing of legislation. Right?I view the term as this way. When we play basketball and someone sprains an ankle and cannot move as well do I have two leg privilege? No, he has one leg disadvantage. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in life. The only true privilege in America is economic privilege. As I always tell my kids, this country is not systemically racist and they don't have white privilege. There is nothing that a black young person cannot legally do in this country that they can.That's what the term "white privilege" means, asshole. It means you should feel guilty simply because you are white. Otherwise, why use it?No you are not guilty of a crime for being white. Just guilty of being a dumbshit but thats because of your posts here on the board.The term "white privilege" is intended to imply that I'm guilty of some kind of crime simply because I'm white.I don't like the term white privilege, I see it as inflammatory. Do you really not understand what it is referring to? No it hasn't been gone for well over 100 years. Civil Rights act was in the 60's. The effect of centuries of oppression doesn't just magically go away when a new law is passedSo "white privilege" is something that has been gone for well over 100 years.
Take your "white privilege" and stick it where the sun don't shine. The entire south suffers to this day from the crimes committed during the Civil War. You don't see anyone blubbering about "Yankee privilege," now do you?
Not only do you accuse white people of having committed a crime of some kind, you deny that you are accusing them of it.
Why should anyone give a fuck about "white privilege" if it doesn't mean white people are guilty of something that they need to make amends for?
#2) 6% of the US population consists of black males but they represent 85% of the NBA and 70% of the NFL, respectively. Some people are just better at sports than others. There are more Jewish NFL owners than players. We all have our core competencies I guess? But statistics can also be misleading.
#3) The primary reason for black disadvantage is the single family unit. In the 60s only 20% of Black Families had one parent, today it is 75%. We are not more racist today than we were in the 60s, I don't think so anyway but Gov't programs and such have festered to create this dynamic. In fact a black child with two parents is more likely to be successful than a white child with one parent. This is why Jews and Asians are the most successful, lowest number of single family homes. Close knit family structures.
#4) We have racist people in America and the world but blacks are the most affluent in America. This is the best place for black and white folks IMO but especially for black folks. Europe is dangerously racist.
#5) I believe if we treated everyone equally and not provide special programs for blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, etc., we would all be better off. I am a Jew and I do not want any programs to help specifically Jews. I would find that abominable. Just treat everyone fairly. I believe capitalism does that as best it can. Notice how many no longer consider Asians to be minorities and even Harvard is turning them away because of the level of wealth and prosperity they achieved in America...wealthiest class.
I agree with you in the most part when it comes to race specific programs. I think it better to focus programs on income level and impoverished areas. Infrastructure and education being the most important elements. I agree on the importance of the family unit, and I agree that America is still a country that represents equal opportunity for all. That doesn't mean we don't have problems and that we can't do better.
I will make one more point. For generations the power structure has been held by whites. That means whites has the most control over making our laws and regulations and shaping the course of our society. Minorities were systematically oppressed for a long time and have not had the opportunity to grow into the positions of power and wealth as whites. These things take time and often generations to get there. I do support programs that can give voice to these minorities. The kind of voice that those who do have money, wealth and power have. So in that aspect I so support racially focused programs.
Do you not thing that Biden will be speaking out for those minorities?
So, why the need for "racially focused programs" when Biden is giving them a voice, a very powerful voice and policies and money and blah, blah, blah, already?
I do not think that Biden will be speaking for me. In fact, i think Biden thinks of me as a problem, not a citizen who needs or deserves anything.
Discrimination in favor of one race, is discrimination AGAINST other races, when you are discriminating with limited resources, such as money or access.
You want me to wait until ALL other inequality problems are solved until I am allowed to have a turn at having my interests represented? And that is a qualified maybe anyways?
Biden talks shit about unity. We cannot have unity when government policy is to shit on huge blocs of people, in favor of other large blocs of people.
That is a plan for civil war, not healing.
At this point,
1. That the very idea of me having interests, is not taboo.
2. Freedom of speech, so that as oppression increases, we can call it out for what it is.
3. Justice for our political prisoners.
I'm not dismissing your priorities, just wasn't expecting those to top the list
I personally am financially ok and making my goals.
I do care about the financial outlook for my peers, family and friends who are less secure.
I lumped those more general and less personal interests under number one, in that over the last four years it has been demonstrated that in our society today, it is taboo for me to even state that I have interests as a group that should be considered in policy.
Those minorities you talk of? It is great for them to speak out, or to have someone speak out for them and their interests.
Me? If I say ANYTHING, even simply identifying myself or my group, I am immediately smeared as a wacist and marginalized and shouted down.
Why did you ask your question? What point were you angling towards?
#2) Places of employment. My wife cannot say how she feels unless it's leftist mantra.
#3) Even families have been torn apart. My niece won't speak with her dad because he voted for Trump.
Three examples right there
They are doing this because they denounce the vitriol that Trump represented. People like you, I know see it but you probably excuse it because he is progressing an agenda you agree with or because you think the people he attacks deserve it. But many people just see a bully picking on others and fostering hate and division. It really didn't need to be that way if he could have acted like a responsible leader instead of an egomaniac.
What happened was more complex than simply a bunch of neo-nazis attacking people, which is the way that the media wanted to spin it.
The American people could easily have understood that.
The American People could easily have grasped the idea that both the radical lefty Antifa types AND the neo-nazis were "very bad people" while other people there, both for and against the statues included many "very fine people".
I think Trump would have LOVED it, if the Media had reported his words honestly and let the discussion of that event go down that road, ie of American society as a whole condemning both the far left and the far right, while accepting the legitimacy of the disagreement between the left leaning center and the right leaning center.
The American People would have no trouble understanding that there were TWO groups of bad people there and both needed condemned and dealt with.
YOu are making excuses for hte media lying to the American people.
What can be more divisive, than telling half the country that the President is sympathetic to ws?
AND at the same time, telling the other half, "hey, because you support a ws, you are evul and nothing you say counts".
What he did was great leadership.
This country is NOT facing a resurgence of nazis. It is facing a long standing fringe survival of nazis AND a violent uprising of leftist mobs.
That his leadership was sabotaged by a media allied with the violent far left, is not on Trump, it is on the media.
His nature might be antagonistic, but on that day, he rose above it, and handled it very well. He was clear, explicit and right on the money.
It is troll game TO THE MEDIA. Trump, imo, wanted to do a good job as President, for whatever personal reasons, and on that day he did the best any President could do.
It would have been EASY, to give the violent left a pass and join in on bashing the nazis.
BUT, that would have given a victory to the real threat, and empowered the violent LEFT.
As it was, they got the victory anyways, thanks to their allied, the media.
And we see the result. Years of political violence in the streets.
There are many valid criticisms to make about Trump, (as with any person). On every policy issue, there are legitimate grounds for reasonable disagreement.
BUT, if you cannot give him credit for his response to Charlottesville, you are not being reasonable.
I'm still waiting for that long list of people BLM and AntiFa have murdered.
This article was written while Trump was still Prez. So to be clear what changes did Biden make that you think is exasperating the problem?I suuuuuuure doI very much doubt that is how it works. Do you have evidence showing that’s the policy? Anybody gets to come in and get medical care?Except the people on the ground are telling the truth. To me it is equivalent to open borders. If I am in Mexico, I cross over, get a free test and likely a free vaccine, then I am released. Life is good. But this isn't the time to do it IMO.Thats a stretch... Asylum seekers vs open borders, there is a difference... I do agree that opening borders is not smart during a pandemic so I would be curious what the protocol is for people who do come through and how things have changed. I read the EO from the Whitehouse and the language reads quite different than the Texas and NY Post articles paint it.This:I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Biden reinstates ‘catch and release’ policy at the southern border
The Biden administration has revived the so-called “catch and release” system when it comes to dealing with illegal immigrants at the southern border. President Biden on Tuesday signed …
‘Catch and release’ resumes in South Texas, mayor says; Biden order reinstates policy
The Biden administration has re-implemented the Obama-era border security method of “catch and release” of undocumented migrants caught along the U.S./Mexico border of South Texas, Bord…
“Federal officers are not doing any COVID testing for immigrants coming across,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez told the outlet. “So we actually reached out to the state of Texas, to the governor’s office. And they quickly sent us thousands of test kits so that we could supply the charity taking these people in.”
Since the pandemic began and travel restrictions with Mexico were imposed in March 2020, undocumented migrants apprehended on the border have been immediately expelled and were not eligible for parole in the United States.
That left the Humanitarian Respite Center empty many days, and for the past few months the center has offered overnight bed space and meals to the homeless.
So instead of keeping the country safer and helping our homeless we are letting in illegals and taking up precious resources to help non-tax payers. How is that remotely logical and unifying?
ICE must provide Covid-19 vaccines to all detained migrants
Our interviews with 50 individuals who had been kept in ICE detention facilities showed how ICE failed to comply with its own Covid-19 pandemic response requirements in at least 22 of its facilities.
Migrants and illegals over taxpayers.
1. All I've done is honestly judge what happened. You are the one protecting your world view and not accepting that Trump poorly handled this situation by watering down a nazi murder to politicize an attack on the left.First of all I don’t know what lie you think I’m holding to. Can you explain?I guess if I were to take your advice then you’d also have to take it as well right? If that voice in my head could be wrong then that voice in yoir head could also be wrong. Where you saw a perfectly handled event perhaps you heard it wrong and he was actually being dismissive of the Nazi hate and giving them cover. Perhaps he was provoking conflict. Can you admit that is a possibility? How would it hurt you to admit that?Nothing would change for me except for I’d be lying if I complimented how he handled that situation. I watched his pressers live. I didn’t need any media spin or interpretation. My jaw dropped when I was listening to Trump as he spoke Live.I have no problem giving Trump credit for actions I support. I’ve done it many times. This is not one of those times. He condemns the speaker of the house with more vigor than he condemned killer Nazis. And then tried to change the subject to focus on the Left. It was pathetic. And when people erupted over it he did nothing to try and clear it up. He wanted the controversy. He thrives off itThe pretzels y’all twist yourselves into trying to make excuses for this turd amazes me. We had literal Nazis with torches, one of whom drove a car through a crowd a killed a girl but you’d rather talk about the evil left mob. How is anybody supposed to take you seriously?!Im not making excuses for the media. I've said anybody that claims that Trump was calling Nazis fine people is not being honest. I am pointing out the fault in how Trump handled the situation. He didn't need to call Nazis fine people, what he did was extremely poor leadership and antagonistic which is his nature. He wanted controversy IMO. Its all a troll game to him and we the people suffer as a result.You don't take the focus off the fact that Nazi's were marching our streets yelling blood and soil to poke at Antifa. I'm sorry but when ugliness like that hits our streets and takes a life you squash it with force and clarity.It was wrong for anybody to say that Trump was calling Nazi's very fine people when he was talking about protestors who wanted to protect statues. It is a fair point to criticize Trump for the weak denunciation of the Nazis and then the subject change to try and blame the left and then compliment the fine people who were there for the statues? Where they fuck did that come from and why is he talking that way after a torch Nazi rally and the murder of a woman?!?!? He could have easily clarified and poured water on the issue but he didn't. He wanted to controversy in my opinion.Nothing comes close, to the Very Fine People lie.Yes the fire was burning before Trump. But he was the gasoline that took all this none sense into hyperdrive. The wingnuts like Bri and uncensored are trying to keep it going with all the retarded Nazi talk but we already see the tensions mellowing with a calmer more boring figure like Biden at the helm. You may disagree with his policies but you have to admit the discourse is getting better than it has been and needs to keep going in the right directionTrump is the effect not the cause. Twitter was highly Antisemitic before Trump ran. The fact that you can’t see that is mind boggling. You keep punching me in the face and when I punch back you call me a bully. That’s what happened with Trump and those who supported him.I guess you can blame social media and media in general for some of that as then enable the pumping of hyperbolic rhetoric but you know that the majority of the cause for such animus lies with Trump himself, right? Such an ugly and divisive figure who trolled and lashed out at others. Each of your examples is pointing to your own friends, family and coworkers as the ones who are limiting your comfort to express yourself. These aren't robots or political operatives these are people you know and they are acting this way because they are deeply offended and insulted by the actions of our President over the past 4 years.#1) Social Media. If I go on FB and or Twitter and post "DJT was a great President" I will likely get called a racist like 100x and maybe worse.What elements of our society/politics do you think are discouraging open communication and why?Therein lies the problem. Open communication is frowned upon.wow, thats very interesting. Doesn't seem like any of those have a tangible effect on the day to day life issues that most people deal with... employment, income, taxes, resources, education, crime, etc.What are your top 3 interests?Do you think all inequality problems are solved in this nation? Do you think there is equal voice, power and representation in local communities all over this nation? You ask why have racially focused programs... well cause a few presidential appointments doesn't solve the issues. Its a good step but many other steps need to be taken.Yes I think he will make an effort to give them voice. He already has through the people he has appointed into power within his administration. Kudos for thatFair points... I brought up golf exactly for the reasons you laid out. You are wrong though it is an amazing game... But it is expensive and it takes a lot of time and thats largely why it is dominated by whites. Yes, Tiger Woods is perhaps the best golfer ever and he is Black. Most other major sports in this country are dominated by Blacks so we know they have incredible athletic ability but they dominate in sports that they can play in their neighborhoods, that don't require expensive equipment, polo shirts, and the kind of expenses that golf and other sports require. It is an example of how money and power effect social standing, access, and opportunity.#1) I hate Golf. Best ever golfer = Tiger Woods. I guess? I do not watch Golf. It is a VERY expensive sport. I would state that very few white players if any come from a working class family background. It is a game for the wealthy just like polo.Do you think the sport of Golf is dominated by whites because whites are inherently better at the game or because of another reason? I'll save the back and forth and assume we both know that money and social class play a large roll in it. This is a better example of how privilege plays into our society. Elements of our society that require money or higher education are largely dominated by whites. While laws have been put in place to try and eliminate the system oppression that was quite literally in our nations laws from its inception till the 1960's you have to be able to recognize that things don't all just change. with the signing of legislation. Right?I view the term as this way. When we play basketball and someone sprains an ankle and cannot move as well do I have two leg privilege? No, he has one leg disadvantage. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in life. The only true privilege in America is economic privilege. As I always tell my kids, this country is not systemically racist and they don't have white privilege. There is nothing that a black young person cannot legally do in this country that they can.That's what the term "white privilege" means, asshole. It means you should feel guilty simply because you are white. Otherwise, why use it?No you are not guilty of a crime for being white. Just guilty of being a dumbshit but thats because of your posts here on the board.The term "white privilege" is intended to imply that I'm guilty of some kind of crime simply because I'm white.I don't like the term white privilege, I see it as inflammatory. Do you really not understand what it is referring to? No it hasn't been gone for well over 100 years. Civil Rights act was in the 60's. The effect of centuries of oppression doesn't just magically go away when a new law is passedSo "white privilege" is something that has been gone for well over 100 years.
Take your "white privilege" and stick it where the sun don't shine. The entire south suffers to this day from the crimes committed during the Civil War. You don't see anyone blubbering about "Yankee privilege," now do you?
Not only do you accuse white people of having committed a crime of some kind, you deny that you are accusing them of it.
Why should anyone give a fuck about "white privilege" if it doesn't mean white people are guilty of something that they need to make amends for?
#2) 6% of the US population consists of black males but they represent 85% of the NBA and 70% of the NFL, respectively. Some people are just better at sports than others. There are more Jewish NFL owners than players. We all have our core competencies I guess? But statistics can also be misleading.
#3) The primary reason for black disadvantage is the single family unit. In the 60s only 20% of Black Families had one parent, today it is 75%. We are not more racist today than we were in the 60s, I don't think so anyway but Gov't programs and such have festered to create this dynamic. In fact a black child with two parents is more likely to be successful than a white child with one parent. This is why Jews and Asians are the most successful, lowest number of single family homes. Close knit family structures.
#4) We have racist people in America and the world but blacks are the most affluent in America. This is the best place for black and white folks IMO but especially for black folks. Europe is dangerously racist.
#5) I believe if we treated everyone equally and not provide special programs for blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, etc., we would all be better off. I am a Jew and I do not want any programs to help specifically Jews. I would find that abominable. Just treat everyone fairly. I believe capitalism does that as best it can. Notice how many no longer consider Asians to be minorities and even Harvard is turning them away because of the level of wealth and prosperity they achieved in America...wealthiest class.
I agree with you in the most part when it comes to race specific programs. I think it better to focus programs on income level and impoverished areas. Infrastructure and education being the most important elements. I agree on the importance of the family unit, and I agree that America is still a country that represents equal opportunity for all. That doesn't mean we don't have problems and that we can't do better.
I will make one more point. For generations the power structure has been held by whites. That means whites has the most control over making our laws and regulations and shaping the course of our society. Minorities were systematically oppressed for a long time and have not had the opportunity to grow into the positions of power and wealth as whites. These things take time and often generations to get there. I do support programs that can give voice to these minorities. The kind of voice that those who do have money, wealth and power have. So in that aspect I so support racially focused programs.
Do you not thing that Biden will be speaking out for those minorities?
So, why the need for "racially focused programs" when Biden is giving them a voice, a very powerful voice and policies and money and blah, blah, blah, already?
I do not think that Biden will be speaking for me. In fact, i think Biden thinks of me as a problem, not a citizen who needs or deserves anything.
Discrimination in favor of one race, is discrimination AGAINST other races, when you are discriminating with limited resources, such as money or access.
You want me to wait until ALL other inequality problems are solved until I am allowed to have a turn at having my interests represented? And that is a qualified maybe anyways?
Biden talks shit about unity. We cannot have unity when government policy is to shit on huge blocs of people, in favor of other large blocs of people.
That is a plan for civil war, not healing.
At this point,
1. That the very idea of me having interests, is not taboo.
2. Freedom of speech, so that as oppression increases, we can call it out for what it is.
3. Justice for our political prisoners.
I'm not dismissing your priorities, just wasn't expecting those to top the list
I personally am financially ok and making my goals.
I do care about the financial outlook for my peers, family and friends who are less secure.
I lumped those more general and less personal interests under number one, in that over the last four years it has been demonstrated that in our society today, it is taboo for me to even state that I have interests as a group that should be considered in policy.
Those minorities you talk of? It is great for them to speak out, or to have someone speak out for them and their interests.
Me? If I say ANYTHING, even simply identifying myself or my group, I am immediately smeared as a wacist and marginalized and shouted down.
Why did you ask your question? What point were you angling towards?
#2) Places of employment. My wife cannot say how she feels unless it's leftist mantra.
#3) Even families have been torn apart. My niece won't speak with her dad because he voted for Trump.
Three examples right there
They are doing this because they denounce the vitriol that Trump represented. People like you, I know see it but you probably excuse it because he is progressing an agenda you agree with or because you think the people he attacks deserve it. But many people just see a bully picking on others and fostering hate and division. It really didn't need to be that way if he could have acted like a responsible leader instead of an egomaniac.
What happened was more complex than simply a bunch of neo-nazis attacking people, which is the way that the media wanted to spin it.
The American people could easily have understood that.
The American People could easily have grasped the idea that both the radical lefty Antifa types AND the neo-nazis were "very bad people" while other people there, both for and against the statues included many "very fine people".
I think Trump would have LOVED it, if the Media had reported his words honestly and let the discussion of that event go down that road, ie of American society as a whole condemning both the far left and the far right, while accepting the legitimacy of the disagreement between the left leaning center and the right leaning center.
The American People would have no trouble understanding that there were TWO groups of bad people there and both needed condemned and dealt with.
YOu are making excuses for hte media lying to the American people.
What can be more divisive, than telling half the country that the President is sympathetic to ws?
AND at the same time, telling the other half, "hey, because you support a ws, you are evul and nothing you say counts".
What he did was great leadership.
This country is NOT facing a resurgence of nazis. It is facing a long standing fringe survival of nazis AND a violent uprising of leftist mobs.
That his leadership was sabotaged by a media allied with the violent far left, is not on Trump, it is on the media.
His nature might be antagonistic, but on that day, he rose above it, and handled it very well. He was clear, explicit and right on the money.
It is troll game TO THE MEDIA. Trump, imo, wanted to do a good job as President, for whatever personal reasons, and on that day he did the best any President could do.
It would have been EASY, to give the violent left a pass and join in on bashing the nazis.
BUT, that would have given a victory to the real threat, and empowered the violent LEFT.
As it was, they got the victory anyways, thanks to their allied, the media.
And we see the result. Years of political violence in the streets.
There are many valid criticisms to make about Trump, (as with any person). On every policy issue, there are legitimate grounds for reasonable disagreement.
BUT, if you cannot give him credit for his response to Charlottesville, you are not being reasonable.
We already discussed the nazis and you, me and Trump all agree that they need condemned and Trump did so.
You are clearly using the emotional image of torch wielding nazis to distract from my point about you being unable to be reasonable when it comes to Trump.
That, btw, is YOU, twisting yourself into a pretzel, to avoid admitting the Truth.
Here is another question for you, that you will not like.
IF, you admitted that Trump, THIS ONE TIME, did well and did properly condemn ws and nazis,
what would it change in your political or cultural life?
I mean, you could easily go, "Well, yes, I admit Trump did good that one time, BUT, I still oppose him on nearly all policies and still find him to be a bad person and still think that his conduct in nearly every other incident was bad."
Couldn't you?
(This is somewhat of a trick question, and I think we both know why)
We are past that.
My question to you stands. What would change for you, if you admitted that he did almost perfectly in handling the charlottesville incident?
Would you have had to vote for him? No.
Would you have to support his trade or immigration policies? No.
Would you have to... sleep with a porn star? No.
What are you so afraid of?
(sort of a trick question, we both know why)
I’m not afraid to compliment him. I just don’t see anything he did worthy of compliment
I think you know that that is not true.
That bit where your jaw dropped? That was your confirmation bias talking to you, over top of Trump's words.
IF you admitted to yourself this time, that that voice in your head was wrong, you would have to face up to the possibility that it could be wrong other times.
At some level, you know how fragile your world view is. That is why you avoid challenging it. You have a nice self image of yourself as a good person, because you believe the right things and are on the right side of history.
And you don't want to lose that.
If Trump was actually sympathetic to ws and nazis? It would crush my world view.
It would mean that me and my fellow conservatives were blind to the level of real racism (and anti-semitism) in the republican party, indeed in the nation as whole.
I would have to reexamine just about EVERYTHING, I thought I knew about the world, in light of this new information.
Which is why you hold to the Lie so much, even though it has been rubbed in your face over and over again.
Note that is not me that keeps this discussion going in a circle. It is you that once we reach a certain point, returns to a previous point of discussion, to use emotional imagery to reset the discussion to avoid looking at points.
Second, I think the fact that I have nothing significant vested either way while you just admitted that if you believed the opposing view it would crush your world view... well that supports a case that perhaps you are the one being closed minded to the situation.
last point...the reality of most situations usually lies somewhere in the middle. Especially with politics. In this case I don’t think Trump is a racist. I think he is an opportunist. I think he will downplay and provoke racists if he thinks he can gain a benefit. I think he has done this. Some look at that alone and would consider that enabling which they consider racist. Others want to see direct expressions of hate and discrimination to prove another racist. Trump has done the former and has not done the latter. He is very careful with his words so he can always have a way out. We are seeing that tactic now with the capital raid. He did say peaceful once in his speech and that’s what he will be leaning on. It’s all a game
1. The Very Fine People Lie. You have admitted that he did not actually say what the Media reported he said, but you still can't bring yourself to honestly judge what he DID actually say.
2. You are kidding yourself if you think you do not also have a world view that would be threatened if you were to admit that you were completely wrong about a strong single example.
3. This country has had a bi-partisan consensus on equality for blacks since the early 60s. White racism, is not a significant force in American politics. NONE of Trump's policies were designed to pander to the long ignored actual racists in this country. Trump is a pragmatic populists politician. The idea that he is trying to pander to a fringe group like white racists, or god forbid, actual ws, is just not supported by ANYTHING real.
1. All I've done is honestly judge what happened. You are the one protecting your world view and not accepting that Trump poorly handled this situation by watering down a nazi murder to politicize an attack on the left.First of all I don’t know what lie you think I’m holding to. Can you explain?I guess if I were to take your advice then you’d also have to take it as well right? If that voice in my head could be wrong then that voice in yoir head could also be wrong. Where you saw a perfectly handled event perhaps you heard it wrong and he was actually being dismissive of the Nazi hate and giving them cover. Perhaps he was provoking conflict. Can you admit that is a possibility? How would it hurt you to admit that?Nothing would change for me except for I’d be lying if I complimented how he handled that situation. I watched his pressers live. I didn’t need any media spin or interpretation. My jaw dropped when I was listening to Trump as he spoke Live.I have no problem giving Trump credit for actions I support. I’ve done it many times. This is not one of those times. He condemns the speaker of the house with more vigor than he condemned killer Nazis. And then tried to change the subject to focus on the Left. It was pathetic. And when people erupted over it he did nothing to try and clear it up. He wanted the controversy. He thrives off itThe pretzels y’all twist yourselves into trying to make excuses for this turd amazes me. We had literal Nazis with torches, one of whom drove a car through a crowd a killed a girl but you’d rather talk about the evil left mob. How is anybody supposed to take you seriously?!Im not making excuses for the media. I've said anybody that claims that Trump was calling Nazis fine people is not being honest. I am pointing out the fault in how Trump handled the situation. He didn't need to call Nazis fine people, what he did was extremely poor leadership and antagonistic which is his nature. He wanted controversy IMO. Its all a troll game to him and we the people suffer as a result.You don't take the focus off the fact that Nazi's were marching our streets yelling blood and soil to poke at Antifa. I'm sorry but when ugliness like that hits our streets and takes a life you squash it with force and clarity.It was wrong for anybody to say that Trump was calling Nazi's very fine people when he was talking about protestors who wanted to protect statues. It is a fair point to criticize Trump for the weak denunciation of the Nazis and then the subject change to try and blame the left and then compliment the fine people who were there for the statues? Where they fuck did that come from and why is he talking that way after a torch Nazi rally and the murder of a woman?!?!? He could have easily clarified and poured water on the issue but he didn't. He wanted to controversy in my opinion.Nothing comes close, to the Very Fine People lie.Yes the fire was burning before Trump. But he was the gasoline that took all this none sense into hyperdrive. The wingnuts like Bri and uncensored are trying to keep it going with all the retarded Nazi talk but we already see the tensions mellowing with a calmer more boring figure like Biden at the helm. You may disagree with his policies but you have to admit the discourse is getting better than it has been and needs to keep going in the right directionTrump is the effect not the cause. Twitter was highly Antisemitic before Trump ran. The fact that you can’t see that is mind boggling. You keep punching me in the face and when I punch back you call me a bully. That’s what happened with Trump and those who supported him.I guess you can blame social media and media in general for some of that as then enable the pumping of hyperbolic rhetoric but you know that the majority of the cause for such animus lies with Trump himself, right? Such an ugly and divisive figure who trolled and lashed out at others. Each of your examples is pointing to your own friends, family and coworkers as the ones who are limiting your comfort to express yourself. These aren't robots or political operatives these are people you know and they are acting this way because they are deeply offended and insulted by the actions of our President over the past 4 years.#1) Social Media. If I go on FB and or Twitter and post "DJT was a great President" I will likely get called a racist like 100x and maybe worse.What elements of our society/politics do you think are discouraging open communication and why?Therein lies the problem. Open communication is frowned upon.wow, thats very interesting. Doesn't seem like any of those have a tangible effect on the day to day life issues that most people deal with... employment, income, taxes, resources, education, crime, etc.What are your top 3 interests?Do you think all inequality problems are solved in this nation? Do you think there is equal voice, power and representation in local communities all over this nation? You ask why have racially focused programs... well cause a few presidential appointments doesn't solve the issues. Its a good step but many other steps need to be taken.Yes I think he will make an effort to give them voice. He already has through the people he has appointed into power within his administration. Kudos for thatFair points... I brought up golf exactly for the reasons you laid out. You are wrong though it is an amazing game... But it is expensive and it takes a lot of time and thats largely why it is dominated by whites. Yes, Tiger Woods is perhaps the best golfer ever and he is Black. Most other major sports in this country are dominated by Blacks so we know they have incredible athletic ability but they dominate in sports that they can play in their neighborhoods, that don't require expensive equipment, polo shirts, and the kind of expenses that golf and other sports require. It is an example of how money and power effect social standing, access, and opportunity.#1) I hate Golf. Best ever golfer = Tiger Woods. I guess? I do not watch Golf. It is a VERY expensive sport. I would state that very few white players if any come from a working class family background. It is a game for the wealthy just like polo.Do you think the sport of Golf is dominated by whites because whites are inherently better at the game or because of another reason? I'll save the back and forth and assume we both know that money and social class play a large roll in it. This is a better example of how privilege plays into our society. Elements of our society that require money or higher education are largely dominated by whites. While laws have been put in place to try and eliminate the system oppression that was quite literally in our nations laws from its inception till the 1960's you have to be able to recognize that things don't all just change. with the signing of legislation. Right?I view the term as this way. When we play basketball and someone sprains an ankle and cannot move as well do I have two leg privilege? No, he has one leg disadvantage. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in life. The only true privilege in America is economic privilege. As I always tell my kids, this country is not systemically racist and they don't have white privilege. There is nothing that a black young person cannot legally do in this country that they can.That's what the term "white privilege" means, asshole. It means you should feel guilty simply because you are white. Otherwise, why use it?No you are not guilty of a crime for being white. Just guilty of being a dumbshit but thats because of your posts here on the board.The term "white privilege" is intended to imply that I'm guilty of some kind of crime simply because I'm white.I don't like the term white privilege, I see it as inflammatory. Do you really not understand what it is referring to? No it hasn't been gone for well over 100 years. Civil Rights act was in the 60's. The effect of centuries of oppression doesn't just magically go away when a new law is passedSo "white privilege" is something that has been gone for well over 100 years.
Take your "white privilege" and stick it where the sun don't shine. The entire south suffers to this day from the crimes committed during the Civil War. You don't see anyone blubbering about "Yankee privilege," now do you?
Not only do you accuse white people of having committed a crime of some kind, you deny that you are accusing them of it.
Why should anyone give a fuck about "white privilege" if it doesn't mean white people are guilty of something that they need to make amends for?
#2) 6% of the US population consists of black males but they represent 85% of the NBA and 70% of the NFL, respectively. Some people are just better at sports than others. There are more Jewish NFL owners than players. We all have our core competencies I guess? But statistics can also be misleading.
#3) The primary reason for black disadvantage is the single family unit. In the 60s only 20% of Black Families had one parent, today it is 75%. We are not more racist today than we were in the 60s, I don't think so anyway but Gov't programs and such have festered to create this dynamic. In fact a black child with two parents is more likely to be successful than a white child with one parent. This is why Jews and Asians are the most successful, lowest number of single family homes. Close knit family structures.
#4) We have racist people in America and the world but blacks are the most affluent in America. This is the best place for black and white folks IMO but especially for black folks. Europe is dangerously racist.
#5) I believe if we treated everyone equally and not provide special programs for blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, etc., we would all be better off. I am a Jew and I do not want any programs to help specifically Jews. I would find that abominable. Just treat everyone fairly. I believe capitalism does that as best it can. Notice how many no longer consider Asians to be minorities and even Harvard is turning them away because of the level of wealth and prosperity they achieved in America...wealthiest class.
I agree with you in the most part when it comes to race specific programs. I think it better to focus programs on income level and impoverished areas. Infrastructure and education being the most important elements. I agree on the importance of the family unit, and I agree that America is still a country that represents equal opportunity for all. That doesn't mean we don't have problems and that we can't do better.
I will make one more point. For generations the power structure has been held by whites. That means whites has the most control over making our laws and regulations and shaping the course of our society. Minorities were systematically oppressed for a long time and have not had the opportunity to grow into the positions of power and wealth as whites. These things take time and often generations to get there. I do support programs that can give voice to these minorities. The kind of voice that those who do have money, wealth and power have. So in that aspect I so support racially focused programs.
Do you not thing that Biden will be speaking out for those minorities?
So, why the need for "racially focused programs" when Biden is giving them a voice, a very powerful voice and policies and money and blah, blah, blah, already?
I do not think that Biden will be speaking for me. In fact, i think Biden thinks of me as a problem, not a citizen who needs or deserves anything.
Discrimination in favor of one race, is discrimination AGAINST other races, when you are discriminating with limited resources, such as money or access.
You want me to wait until ALL other inequality problems are solved until I am allowed to have a turn at having my interests represented? And that is a qualified maybe anyways?
Biden talks shit about unity. We cannot have unity when government policy is to shit on huge blocs of people, in favor of other large blocs of people.
That is a plan for civil war, not healing.
At this point,
1. That the very idea of me having interests, is not taboo.
2. Freedom of speech, so that as oppression increases, we can call it out for what it is.
3. Justice for our political prisoners.
I'm not dismissing your priorities, just wasn't expecting those to top the list
I personally am financially ok and making my goals.
I do care about the financial outlook for my peers, family and friends who are less secure.
I lumped those more general and less personal interests under number one, in that over the last four years it has been demonstrated that in our society today, it is taboo for me to even state that I have interests as a group that should be considered in policy.
Those minorities you talk of? It is great for them to speak out, or to have someone speak out for them and their interests.
Me? If I say ANYTHING, even simply identifying myself or my group, I am immediately smeared as a wacist and marginalized and shouted down.
Why did you ask your question? What point were you angling towards?
#2) Places of employment. My wife cannot say how she feels unless it's leftist mantra.
#3) Even families have been torn apart. My niece won't speak with her dad because he voted for Trump.
Three examples right there
They are doing this because they denounce the vitriol that Trump represented. People like you, I know see it but you probably excuse it because he is progressing an agenda you agree with or because you think the people he attacks deserve it. But many people just see a bully picking on others and fostering hate and division. It really didn't need to be that way if he could have acted like a responsible leader instead of an egomaniac.
What happened was more complex than simply a bunch of neo-nazis attacking people, which is the way that the media wanted to spin it.
The American people could easily have understood that.
The American People could easily have grasped the idea that both the radical lefty Antifa types AND the neo-nazis were "very bad people" while other people there, both for and against the statues included many "very fine people".
I think Trump would have LOVED it, if the Media had reported his words honestly and let the discussion of that event go down that road, ie of American society as a whole condemning both the far left and the far right, while accepting the legitimacy of the disagreement between the left leaning center and the right leaning center.
The American People would have no trouble understanding that there were TWO groups of bad people there and both needed condemned and dealt with.
YOu are making excuses for hte media lying to the American people.
What can be more divisive, than telling half the country that the President is sympathetic to ws?
AND at the same time, telling the other half, "hey, because you support a ws, you are evul and nothing you say counts".
What he did was great leadership.
This country is NOT facing a resurgence of nazis. It is facing a long standing fringe survival of nazis AND a violent uprising of leftist mobs.
That his leadership was sabotaged by a media allied with the violent far left, is not on Trump, it is on the media.
His nature might be antagonistic, but on that day, he rose above it, and handled it very well. He was clear, explicit and right on the money.
It is troll game TO THE MEDIA. Trump, imo, wanted to do a good job as President, for whatever personal reasons, and on that day he did the best any President could do.
It would have been EASY, to give the violent left a pass and join in on bashing the nazis.
BUT, that would have given a victory to the real threat, and empowered the violent LEFT.
As it was, they got the victory anyways, thanks to their allied, the media.
And we see the result. Years of political violence in the streets.
There are many valid criticisms to make about Trump, (as with any person). On every policy issue, there are legitimate grounds for reasonable disagreement.
BUT, if you cannot give him credit for his response to Charlottesville, you are not being reasonable.
We already discussed the nazis and you, me and Trump all agree that they need condemned and Trump did so.
You are clearly using the emotional image of torch wielding nazis to distract from my point about you being unable to be reasonable when it comes to Trump.
That, btw, is YOU, twisting yourself into a pretzel, to avoid admitting the Truth.
Here is another question for you, that you will not like.
IF, you admitted that Trump, THIS ONE TIME, did well and did properly condemn ws and nazis,
what would it change in your political or cultural life?
I mean, you could easily go, "Well, yes, I admit Trump did good that one time, BUT, I still oppose him on nearly all policies and still find him to be a bad person and still think that his conduct in nearly every other incident was bad."
Couldn't you?
(This is somewhat of a trick question, and I think we both know why)
We are past that.
My question to you stands. What would change for you, if you admitted that he did almost perfectly in handling the charlottesville incident?
Would you have had to vote for him? No.
Would you have to support his trade or immigration policies? No.
Would you have to... sleep with a porn star? No.
What are you so afraid of?
(sort of a trick question, we both know why)
I’m not afraid to compliment him. I just don’t see anything he did worthy of compliment
I think you know that that is not true.
That bit where your jaw dropped? That was your confirmation bias talking to you, over top of Trump's words.
IF you admitted to yourself this time, that that voice in your head was wrong, you would have to face up to the possibility that it could be wrong other times.
At some level, you know how fragile your world view is. That is why you avoid challenging it. You have a nice self image of yourself as a good person, because you believe the right things and are on the right side of history.
And you don't want to lose that.
If Trump was actually sympathetic to ws and nazis? It would crush my world view.
It would mean that me and my fellow conservatives were blind to the level of real racism (and anti-semitism) in the republican party, indeed in the nation as whole.
I would have to reexamine just about EVERYTHING, I thought I knew about the world, in light of this new information.
Which is why you hold to the Lie so much, even though it has been rubbed in your face over and over again.
Note that is not me that keeps this discussion going in a circle. It is you that once we reach a certain point, returns to a previous point of discussion, to use emotional imagery to reset the discussion to avoid looking at points.
Second, I think the fact that I have nothing significant vested either way while you just admitted that if you believed the opposing view it would crush your world view... well that supports a case that perhaps you are the one being closed minded to the situation.
last point...the reality of most situations usually lies somewhere in the middle. Especially with politics. In this case I don’t think Trump is a racist. I think he is an opportunist. I think he will downplay and provoke racists if he thinks he can gain a benefit. I think he has done this. Some look at that alone and would consider that enabling which they consider racist. Others want to see direct expressions of hate and discrimination to prove another racist. Trump has done the former and has not done the latter. He is very careful with his words so he can always have a way out. We are seeing that tactic now with the capital raid. He did say peaceful once in his speech and that’s what he will be leaning on. It’s all a game
1. The Very Fine People Lie. You have admitted that he did not actually say what the Media reported he said, but you still can't bring yourself to honestly judge what he DID actually say.
2. You are kidding yourself if you think you do not also have a world view that would be threatened if you were to admit that you were completely wrong about a strong single example.
3. This country has had a bi-partisan consensus on equality for blacks since the early 60s. White racism, is not a significant force in American politics. NONE of Trump's policies were designed to pander to the long ignored actual racists in this country. Trump is a pragmatic populists politician. The idea that he is trying to pander to a fringe group like white racists, or god forbid, actual ws, is just not supported by ANYTHING real.
2. No, I'm just fine calling balls and strikes. When Trump does something good I have no problem saying it was good. Charlottesville was not good
3. Trump panders to anybody who expresses support for him. It is very transparent in his words and actions. Look how he responded to the assholes who rushed the capital... "...So go home. We love you. You’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel..." Come on!! Really?!
He reinstituted catch and release where as before Trump was for catch and deport. When you release you have to test for COVID first and there aren't enough tests. So they want to vaccinate the migrants but that means they get the vaccine before tax paying citizens.This article was written while Trump was still Prez. So to be clear what changes did Biden make that you think is exasperating the problem?I suuuuuuure doI very much doubt that is how it works. Do you have evidence showing that’s the policy? Anybody gets to come in and get medical care?Except the people on the ground are telling the truth. To me it is equivalent to open borders. If I am in Mexico, I cross over, get a free test and likely a free vaccine, then I am released. Life is good. But this isn't the time to do it IMO.Thats a stretch... Asylum seekers vs open borders, there is a difference... I do agree that opening borders is not smart during a pandemic so I would be curious what the protocol is for people who do come through and how things have changed. I read the EO from the Whitehouse and the language reads quite different than the Texas and NY Post articles paint it.This:I must have missed the part where Biden opened the border. What exactly are you talking about here?Hence I said optically. Trump closed the borders, Biden reopened them. We have a virus. Why reopen borders now? Not sure where we disagree here? If there was no virus present it would certainly be a debate but with a virus present, doesn't seem logical to open our borders. Democrat mayors in some TX towns agree with me.Thats an ideological argument. Yes, justified by your views but contrary to your oppositions views when it comes to immigration. Your opposition are the ones who won the last election.Because Trump's protected America at least optically. This doesn't, especially with a virus hanging around.Yes, I already said Bidens EOs are not unifying. I agree with you. I also asked why you didn’t have the same objections to Trumps unilateral moves with immigrationYou and Biden are dismissing and ignoring the voices of those that wanted the immigration laws, democratically expressed in those laws.
That is divisive.
Biden reinstates ‘catch and release’ policy at the southern border
The Biden administration has revived the so-called “catch and release” system when it comes to dealing with illegal immigrants at the southern border. President Biden on Tuesday signed …
‘Catch and release’ resumes in South Texas, mayor says; Biden order reinstates policy
The Biden administration has re-implemented the Obama-era border security method of “catch and release” of undocumented migrants caught along the U.S./Mexico border of South Texas, Bord…
“Federal officers are not doing any COVID testing for immigrants coming across,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez told the outlet. “So we actually reached out to the state of Texas, to the governor’s office. And they quickly sent us thousands of test kits so that we could supply the charity taking these people in.”
Since the pandemic began and travel restrictions with Mexico were imposed in March 2020, undocumented migrants apprehended on the border have been immediately expelled and were not eligible for parole in the United States.
That left the Humanitarian Respite Center empty many days, and for the past few months the center has offered overnight bed space and meals to the homeless.
So instead of keeping the country safer and helping our homeless we are letting in illegals and taking up precious resources to help non-tax payers. How is that remotely logical and unifying?
ICE must provide Covid-19 vaccines to all detained migrants
Our interviews with 50 individuals who had been kept in ICE detention facilities showed how ICE failed to comply with its own Covid-19 pandemic response requirements in at least 22 of its facilities.
Migrants and illegals over taxpayers.
The Nebraska GOP can censure him - But at their own peril.
And he is SO right ... Many Trump supporters have abandoned their religion for politics.
Personality cults aren't conservative
Conspiracy theories aren't conservative
Lying that an election has been stolen is not conservative
Acting like politics is a religion isn't conservative
Politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude
We're going to have to choose between conservatism and madness
Trumpsters are not conservatives and certainly not liberals. They are people that favor authoritarian rule who believe the answer does not lie in a party or in a democratic elected government but in a single strong leader. This is why they are quick to accept the claim that democratic elections are rigged. Like Trump, they think might is right. They praise the strong and abhor the weak.
All that is made up shit about people you hate.
No, I do not hate the millions of Trump supporters just as don't hate the millions of Germans in the 30's who fell for the greatest conman of that day.
I don't know you so I will take you at your word that you don't hate Trump supporters. However, a lot of Dems do hate Trump supporters.
The Nebraska GOP can censure him - But at their own peril.
And he is SO right ... Many Trump supporters have abandoned their religion for politics.
Personality cults aren't conservative
Conspiracy theories aren't conservative
Lying that an election has been stolen is not conservative
Acting like politics is a religion isn't conservative
Politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude
We're going to have to choose between conservatism and madness
Trumpsters are not conservatives and certainly not liberals. They are people that favor authoritarian rule who believe the answer does not lie in a party or in a democratic elected government but in a single strong leader. This is why they are quick to accept the claim that democratic elections are rigged. Like Trump, they think might is right. They praise the strong and abhor the weak.
All that is made up shit about people you hate.
No, I do not hate the millions of Trump supporters just as don't hate the millions of Germans in the 30's who fell for the greatest conman of that day.
I don't know you so I will take you at your word that you don't hate Trump supporters. However, a lot of Dems do hate Trump supporters.
What they hate is the stereotype. The same goes for democrats. These political stereotypes are created by political image makers and the media. In my life, I have know a ton of democrats and republicans and very few actually fit the stereotypes. Political campaigns turn conservatives in rightwing extremists and liberals into left wing loonies. In the stereotypical world of politics the opposition lacks the capability to tie their shoes, has no understanding of anything, and will end life as we know if elected.
