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lol, you are thick.
Surviving is not the only consideration here, bubba, you might also want to make sure you don't get your ass sued into poverty. Being able to justify your actions in a civil court is something most of us are concerned about.
But I also don't want to KILL anyone if I don't have to. I simply want to stop them from hurting me, and depending on the situation, I will use the minimal force necessary to stop them, which I have done a number of times in my life already.
Also, I don't want to live with the knowledge that I might have killed a kid who had been forced to do something he didn't want to do or that it was a prank on the wrong guy or he was a thief but wouldn't hurt anyone, etc. Don't want that shit in my head till I die.
But I will protect myself by any means NECESARY. If that means one bullet and they run, great. If that means I simply pull my shirt over the pistol grip so they see it, fine. IF that means I have to shoot them multiple times, I can live with that as long as I know I had no choice, and I still wont like having that to live with.
But I have had training at a major security company and to get my CCW in three different states, Texas, Virginia and Utah. Every godamned one of them said shoot once because of civil liability. They also all said if that doesn't stop them, repeat as required.
No, that is not military training because in the military you are on the battlefield, and with a 9mm you HAVE to shoot them several times. lol
Not to be rude, but can we avoid going into a ballistics debate?
I think I would rather eat broken glass instead.
lol, you are thick.
Surviving is not the only consideration here, bubba, you might also want to make sure you don't get your ass sued into poverty. Being able to justify your actions in a civil court is something most of us are concerned about.
But I also don't want to KILL anyone if I don't have to. I simply want to stop them from hurting me, and depending on the situation, I will use the minimal force necessary to stop them, which I have done a number of times in my life already.
Also, I don't want to live with the knowledge that I might have killed a kid who had been forced to do something he didn't want to do or that it was a prank on the wrong guy or he was a thief but wouldn't hurt anyone, etc. Don't want that shit in my head till I die.
But I will protect myself by any means NECESARY. If that means one bullet and they run, great. If that means I simply pull my shirt over the pistol grip so they see it, fine. IF that means I have to shoot them multiple times, I can live with that as long as I know I had no choice, and I still wont like having that to live with.
But I have had training at a major security company and to get my CCW in three different states, Texas, Virginia and Utah. Every godamned one of them said shoot once because of civil liability. They also all said if that doesn't stop them, repeat as required.
No, that is not military training because in the military you are on the battlefield, and with a 9mm you HAVE to shoot them several times. lol
So you have been arguing this whole time based off of training you received from an employer, knowing that is different.
Tell you what. Do what you want. If someone breaks into your house shoot once, drop your gun gangsta style and scream take that homey!
Not to be rude, but can we avoid going into a ballistics debate?
I think I would rather eat broken glass instead.
What? Your whole argument started with a ballistics debate!
I watched a guy get stabbed in the heart in a parking lot in my wild and woolly days.
He hit the ground immediately,bounced to his feet and keeled over. Maybe five seconds went by.
Obviously not a very tough guy. A whole bunch of how people react to getting shot is psychological as evidenced by the Miami shootout back in 1986. I rarely use wiki but they have the best account available online...
"As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platts eventual death.[12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove.[13]"
1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not exactly...shot from below and slightly behind (through the right armpit) by a single shot from a Lewis gun. It hit his right lung, grazed his heart, and hit his left lung.
Superbly-researched book: Who Killed The Red Baron by PJ Carisella.
There are comprehensive articles by forensic archeologists, forensic pathologists and others in Cross and Cockade magazine, which at the time was the preeminent WWI aviation historical Journal, and then followed up in new articles in Over the Front (the continuation of Cross and Cockade) Volume 7 Number 3 and Volume 7 Number three "Documents relating to Richthofens Last Battle" Part's One and Two by F.R. McGuire the former Historical Officer of the Canadian Brigade Group during the Korean war and "The Death of The Red Baron-When is it Too Much? An Essay, in Over the Front Volume 8 Number 2. and, in the same Volume "The Events of 21 April 1918 by Philip Markham, which go through the Red Barons last flight on a minute by minute basis and establish beyond doubt that Brown shot him down and he flew on for several miles before finally crashing.
I watched a guy get stabbed in the heart in a parking lot in my wild and woolly days.
He hit the ground immediately,bounced to his feet and keeled over. Maybe five seconds went by.
Obviously not a very tough guy. A whole bunch of how people react to getting shot is psychological as evidenced by the Miami shootout back in 1986. I rarely use wiki but they have the best account available online...
"As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platts eventual death.[12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove.[13]"
1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
good come on down to Texas we love guns.
I suppose that Maryland could tell Barretta to go to hell, but if they are moving to Texas, that would be redundent.
Not exactly...shot from below and slightly behind (through the right armpit) by a single shot from a Lewis gun. It hit his right lung, grazed his heart, and hit his left lung.
Superbly-researched book: Who Killed The Red Baron by PJ Carisella.
There are comprehensive articles by forensic archeologists, forensic pathologists and others in Cross and Cockade magazine, which at the time was the preeminent WWI aviation historical Journal, and then followed up in new articles in Over the Front (the continuation of Cross and Cockade) Volume 7 Number 3 and Volume 7 Number three "Documents relating to Richthofens Last Battle" Part's One and Two by F.R. McGuire the former Historical Officer of the Canadian Brigade Group during the Korean war and "The Death of The Red Baron-When is it Too Much? An Essay, in Over the Front Volume 8 Number 2. and, in the same Volume "The Events of 21 April 1918 by Philip Markham, which go through the Red Barons last flight on a minute by minute basis and establish beyond doubt that Brown shot him down and he flew on for several miles before finally crashing.
Carisella came to the OPPOSITE conclusion: due to the angle of the shot, the chance Brown fired it is--exactly--zero. Carisella was able to pinpoint EXACTLY where the plane was when Richtofen was hit.
Excellent. All businesses need to pick up and leave states that are hostile business environments. The loss of tax dollars is a catalyst for getting politicians to take their heads out of their asses like no other.
Gun maker Beretta U.S.A. will move all of its manufacturing out of Maryland to a new factory in Tennessee, the company announced Monday, after protesting Maryland's strict gun law passed last year.
The company met with employees Tuesday to tell them that 160 manufacturing and related jobs would move. Beretta's headquarters, including about 95 administrative and executive jobs, will stay in Accokeek, Maryland.
Beretta Moves All Manufacturing Out of Md. After State Passes New Gun Bill | NBC4 Washington
certainly good news
there is no reason for Beretta to stay and pay taxes in a state
that wants to cut its throat
There are comprehensive articles by forensic archeologists, forensic pathologists and others in Cross and Cockade magazine, which at the time was the preeminent WWI aviation historical Journal, and then followed up in new articles in Over the Front (the continuation of Cross and Cockade) Volume 7 Number 3 and Volume 7 Number three "Documents relating to Richthofens Last Battle" Part's One and Two by F.R. McGuire the former Historical Officer of the Canadian Brigade Group during the Korean war and "The Death of The Red Baron-When is it Too Much? An Essay, in Over the Front Volume 8 Number 2. and, in the same Volume "The Events of 21 April 1918 by Philip Markham, which go through the Red Barons last flight on a minute by minute basis and establish beyond doubt that Brown shot him down and he flew on for several miles before finally crashing.
Carisella came to the OPPOSITE conclusion: due to the angle of the shot, the chance Brown fired it is--exactly--zero. Carisella was able to pinpoint EXACTLY where the plane was when Richthofen was hit.
The Red Baron left tracks?
TWO FIFTY?.....That's a God Damned hand held cannon....I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.
Just a correction on your Moro Rebel history. The 1911 didn't exist at the time so we sent them the old Colt SAA revolvers from the Indian Wars era. Most were assembled from parts (and are called "artillery" models) and yes, they did fire a big 250 grain soft lead bullet.
TWO FIFTY?.....That's a God Damned hand held cannon....I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.
Just a correction on your Moro Rebel history. The 1911 didn't exist at the time so we sent them the old Colt SAA revolvers from the Indian Wars era. Most were assembled from parts (and are called "artillery" models) and yes, they did fire a big 250 grain soft lead bullet.
I watched a guy get stabbed in the heart in a parking lot in my wild and woolly days.
He hit the ground immediately,bounced to his feet and keeled over. Maybe five seconds went by.
Obviously not a very tough guy. A whole bunch of how people react to getting shot is psychological as evidenced by the Miami shootout back in 1986. I rarely use wiki but they have the best account available online...
"As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove's 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platts eventual death.[12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove.[13]"
1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He didnt get shot in the heart,so it's no surprise he was able to continue.
Not exactly...shot from below and slightly behind (through the right armpit) by a single shot from a Lewis gun. It hit his right lung, grazed his heart, and hit his left lung.
Superbly-researched book: Who Killed The Red Baron by PJ Carisella.
There are comprehensive articles by forensic archeologists, forensic pathologists and others in Cross and Cockade magazine, which at the time was the preeminent WWI aviation historical Journal, and then followed up in new articles in Over the Front (the continuation of Cross and Cockade) Volume 7 Number 3 and Volume 7 Number three "Documents relating to Richthofens Last Battle" Part's One and Two by F.R. McGuire the former Historical Officer of the Canadian Brigade Group during the Korean war and "The Death of The Red Baron-When is it Too Much? An Essay, in Over the Front Volume 8 Number 2. and, in the same Volume "The Events of 21 April 1918 by Philip Markham, which go through the Red Barons last flight on a minute by minute basis and establish beyond doubt that Brown shot him down and he flew on for several miles before finally crashing.
Carisella came to the OPPOSITE conclusion: due to the angle of the shot, the chance Brown fired it is--exactly--zero. Carisella was able to pinpoint EXACTLY where the plane was when Richtofen was hit.
