Bernie Calls For a Moral Economy; Why Not?

[NYcarbineer]

Why not? Because there is nothing moral about taking money from someone to give to someone else.

So it's immoral to have a democratic government that decides to collect taxes to help pay for the health and education of the poor.

See, that's how far off the planet the modern American conservative is.

 

[2aguy]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

Just have a 15% flat tax....everyone gets a 40,000 dollar deduction before they pay....done. He doesn't want a moral economy...he wants to punish people he doesn't like......he has no clue how to generate an actual income...so he thinks that anyone who can make a living is cheating.

 

[kaz]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Who defines "moral and considerate?"

 

[2aguy]

A moral economy?

You mean, one where people get only what they pay for (or work for)?

Count me in.

(Except that's NEVER what Bernie Sanders means.)

When socialist liberals (which is most of them) refer to a "moral economy", they usually mean an economy where people get what the liberals think they should get. According to some fuzzy notions in their heads that they can't even voice much less agree on. But which have little to do with how much the person's work is actually worth.

So we have a county where there are people mining for gold (taken straight out of history) and making fortunes.

At first it is easy, then it gets hard to find, but thousands are still flocking in to get rich. After a while, if you strike gold you keep it to yourself or else other starving miners might rob you and leave you for crow food. It devolves into a jungle of rats feeding on each other.

Then come the biggest rats who bully the starving miners into line and buy all the producing mines and hire the starving miners to work the mines. The few miners with producing mines that wont sell get forced into it by big mining company interests. That is how you start with 30 companies all doing the same service or product getting reduced down to 3 or so. They rob, steal and connive to kill their competition.

That is how the Carnegies and so forth got to be monopolies; they dint have the best mouse trap, they stole the mouse trap and killed their competition.

What is wrong with saying, 'Hey, lets all organize in this democratic Republic and make the companies and corporations play fair? Make them stop screwing people over for a dime and make them obey the laws? Why not give them financial incentives to behave like a decent human being instead of a money grubbing whore?'

The biggest problem...politicians like sanders...why on earth would you want to give greedy, corrupt politicians, the guys you have created the system you are complaining about, more power over you by allowing more control over the tax rates.....the only ones who get rich then are the greedy politicians and their crony socialist buddies....

get money and power out of the hands of politicians...and everything you want will come to pass

 

[JimBowie1958]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Who defines "moral and considerate?"

The Congressional Senators and Representatives elected by the People of the USA.

 

[kaz]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Who defines "moral and considerate?"

The Congressional Senators and Representatives elected by the People of the USA.

Maybe rather than that, we should have people who ARE moral and considerate do it? So who is going to do it? Should we have religious leaders do it?

Seriously, you're going to let government tell you what is "moral and considerate?"

 

[PredFan]

Why not? Because there is nothing moral about taking money from someone to give to someone else.

So it's immoral to have a democratic government that decides to collect taxes to help pay for the health and education of the poor.

See, that's how far off the planet the modern American conservative is.

No idiot, I said it is'nt moral to take money from some one and give it to someone else. That is Crazy Berie's whole schtick. His idea of a moral economy is income equality. That is what is immoral.

Equality of opportunity is moral, equality of outcome is not.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Seriously, you're going to let government tell you what is "moral and considerate?"

No, we the people elect the Congresscritters and then they vote representing us.

In theory anyway.

 

[whitehall]

The trouble with neo-socialist supporters of Sanders is that they are not completely truthful. They claim to want to "change tax policies" but they forget to mention that the already corrupt IRS would become even a bigger tool of left wing administrations and taxes would most likely become more burdensome as socialists strive to make all factions of society equal, that is equally poor except for the elites.

 

[Votto]

Good Lord....I'm not sure here....Did the Bern EVER hold an actual job in his 75 years? Just curious - because he apparently has no clue whatsoever as to how an "Economy" and the "demand" in the economy works. So, I don't know, what do we do? elect this clown, allow him to make the government 10 times the size it is now and 20-25 TRILLION in debt and have him make hundreds of thousands a year while he tells US what WE can make?

Sounds pretty damned tyrannical to me - sort of like Fidel Castro....

I used to live in Burlington, Ontario, Canada in the 1970's and 1980's and we used to have this Burlington International Games, in which young competitors from Burlington, Ontario and Burlington, Vermont would meet in friendly competition in various sports. Location alternated from year to year. Guest kids were billeted, stayed with the families of their opponents, develop friendship and promoting understanding, cultures and customs in our two countries. Each year the mayor of the host city would welcome the guests, give a speech and then let the games begin. Ontario automatically (but not without a valiant effort) conceded soft ball to Vermont, while soccer belonged to Ontario.

I first met Bernie Sanders at one of these events. As years went by, and as our kids have grown up, Vermont and Sanders faded in my memory, until I saw and old picture of Sanders, which brought it all back.

Thought to myself: Could this be real? How could anyone be such a perpetual freeloader, living off the taxpayer, improving only his own status in life from the mayor of an insignificant little town in an insignificant little state to United States Senator and a contender for the Presidency, while not producing a single tangible evidence that his political manoeuvrings benefited nobody but himself? How can such a hypocrite claim to be INDEPENDENT, but always sucking up to (i.e. caucusing with) Democrats? How can he get away with such cowardly behavior running under the Democrat banner?

If this freeloading fucker claims that he is for the middle class, he should try to be middle class. Produce something, be it a screw in place on an assembly line or a line in a computer program or forever hold his peace. Or if he claims to be the champion of the oppressed who work for minimum wage, try to work for the minimum wage. Or, better still, imagine himself to be the employer who faces the choice of going bankrupt or laying off employees who need whatever they earn to provide for heir families.

This time of the year there is talk about "Tax Freedom" day, which is the day that a person has paid all his federal taxes by.

This useless fuck forgot to mention that if all his wild promises came true, the "Tax Freedom" day for Americans would be the day coinciding not with the Resurrection, but with the birth of someone whom he hates.

Indeed. That's the problem with 95% of politicians these days. They start out with the best intentions - when they run for City Council (or whatever). Slowly, but surely the lust for power creeps in and it's fed by MONEY. By the time they get to Washington DC - they are nothing more than whores that are out for themselves.

Which is why we need term limits.

Support the Article V movement to force federal lawmakers to only one or two terms.

They won't impose it on themselves.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The trouble with neo-socialist supporters of Sanders is that they are not completely truthful. They claim to want to "change tax policies" but they forget to mention that the already corrupt IRS would become even a bigger tool of left wing administrations and taxes would most likely become more burdensome as socialists strive to make all factions of society equal, that is equally poor except for the elites.

Well, there are problems with the bias and partisanship of everyone pretty much, but the question of what the IRS will do and can do is pretty much separate.

 

[bripat9643]

From my point of view you only have basically three systems, communism, capitalism or dictatorships...

Communism only makes the government officials rich

Capitilism only makes the private individual rich.
.

Well, you have every right to think that, but the fact is that it is not true. There are many shades of gray between capitalism and communism and the Golden Mean is somewhere in the middle.

Notify me if any country ever finds it. I wish it to be true, But by the looks of the Panama story this week I have a long wait to go.


.

.

You might be interested in reading about so-called 'Nordic Socialism' which is the kind of Socialism that Sanders wants. Norway which uses that form of socialism has a higher stanard of living than the USA does.

There is no reason we have to live and work in a 'rat eats rat' world.

So-called "Nordic socialism" is indistinguishable from capitalism.

What are you afraid of then?

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

 

[kaz]

Seriously, you're going to let government tell you what is "moral and considerate?"

No, we the people elect the Congresscritters and then they vote representing us.

In theory anyway.

I sure the fuck don't elect them to tell me what's "moral and considerate" ...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why not? Because there is nothing moral about taking money from someone to give to someone else.

So it's immoral to have a democratic government that decides to collect taxes to help pay for the health and education of the poor.

See, that's how far off the planet the modern American conservative is.

No idiot, I said it is'nt moral to take money from some one and give it to someone else. That is Crazy Berie's whole schtick. His idea of a moral economy is income equality. That is what is immoral.

Equality of opportunity is moral, equality of outcome is not.

If I take your money and use it to provide healthcare for a poor person,

what about that is NOT taking money from you to give to someone else?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Seriously, you're going to let government tell you what is "moral and considerate?"

No, we the people elect the Congresscritters and then they vote representing us.

In theory anyway.

I sure the fuck don't elect them to tell me what's "moral and considerate" ...

But you vote for people who reflect your morals more than other candidates.

 

[2aguy]

It is a very simple thing to have a more moral economy. Go out, get a job, don't break the law, give your own money to charity, be nice to people......that is how you create a moral economy...by being a moral person. Using the government to make people be more moral by taking the money they earn and giving it to greedy, corrupt politicians is making the country more moral how?

 

[NYcarbineer]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

Just have a 15% flat tax....everyone gets a 40,000 dollar deduction before they pay....done. He doesn't want a moral economy...he wants to punish people he doesn't like......he has no clue how to generate an actual income...so he thinks that anyone who can make a living is cheating.

Flat tax on what? Top line income? No deductions?

 

[NYcarbineer]

It is a very simple thing to have a more moral economy. Go out, get a job, don't break the law, give your own money to charity, be nice to people......that is how you create a moral economy...by being a moral person. Using the government to make people be more moral by taking the money they earn and giving it to greedy, corrupt politicians is making the country more moral how?

People aren't moral by nature.

 

[JoeNormal]

Well, you have every right to think that, but the fact is that it is not true. There are many shades of gray between capitalism and communism and the Golden Mean is somewhere in the middle.

Notify me if any country ever finds it. I wish it to be true, But by the looks of the Panama story this week I have a long wait to go.


.

.

You might be interested in reading about so-called 'Nordic Socialism' which is the kind of Socialism that Sanders wants. Norway which uses that form of socialism has a higher stanard of living than the USA does.

There is no reason we have to live and work in a 'rat eats rat' world.

So-called "Nordic socialism" is indistinguishable from capitalism.

What are you afraid of then?

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Notify me if any country ever finds it. I wish it to be true, But by the looks of the Panama story this week I have a long wait to go.


.

.

You might be interested in reading about so-called 'Nordic Socialism' which is the kind of Socialism that Sanders wants. Norway which uses that form of socialism has a higher stanard of living than the USA does.

There is no reason we have to live and work in a 'rat eats rat' world.

So-called "Nordic socialism" is indistinguishable from capitalism.

What are you afraid of then?

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

If you are used to paying 40% in taxes and such they got used to it.

Imagine if we had a tax holiday for three months and people really see how much federal and state taxes they pay .. .

It would be a revolt when they took it away.


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