Bernie Calls For a Moral Economy; Why Not?

[JoeNormal]

A moral economy?

Like one where people make money by honestly dealing with one another? And one profits by providing goods and services another person needs effectively and in a way that makes others voluntarily come to them to get their goods and solve their problems? Think of it. A system if economics where people serve one another to provide for themselves.

And one that self corrects if people act immorally.

Wait, we have one! It's called the free market. So why do we want to install a government that's going to tell us what we can or can't do or how we meet our needs for providing for ourselves or what we have to buy regardless of our choice?

The free market has no morality. Slaves were bought and sold like property in a free market.

People are not property. Slavery has nothing to do with the free market.

If People declare a certain subset of 'people' to be property, yes, slavery becomes an exercisse of the free market.

That would be the same as government declaring everything you earn to be its property. The free market means all people are free to trade their labor for remuneration, not just a subset of them.

You simply want to define slavery as compatible with capitalism. The fact is that it took capitalism to abolish slavery.

Wow, would you care to even try to explain that one? (Tortured logic is always fun.)

 

[Iceweasel]

I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.

Who's forcing them?

 

[bripat9643]

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

If you are used to paying 40% in taxes and such they got used to it.

Imagine if we had a tax holiday for three months and people really see how much federal and state taxes they pay .. .

It would be a revolt when they took it away.


.

I pay more than 40% of my income in order to have decent medical care, college fund for the kids and retirement when the time comes. That's all part of the package over there. Plus they eat real food, start out with 6 weeks of vacation and don't work themselves to an early grave.

Yes, you pay a lot more than 40%. It's more like 60%, and your medical care sucks.

Says the man who's never been anywhere.

I've probably been to more foreign countries than you have. I've even landed in several European cities, but I was just passing through.

 

[bripat9643]

A moral economy?

Like one where people make money by honestly dealing with one another? And one profits by providing goods and services another person needs effectively and in a way that makes others voluntarily come to them to get their goods and solve their problems? Think of it. A system if economics where people serve one another to provide for themselves.

And one that self corrects if people act immorally.

Wait, we have one! It's called the free market. So why do we want to install a government that's going to tell us what we can or can't do or how we meet our needs for providing for ourselves or what we have to buy regardless of our choice?

The free market has no morality. Slaves were bought and sold like property in a free market.

People are not property. Slavery has nothing to do with the free market.

If People declare a certain subset of 'people' to be property, yes, slavery becomes an exercisse of the free market.

That would be the same as government declaring everything you earn to be its property. The free market means all people are free to trade their labor for remuneration, not just a subset of them.

You simply want to define slavery as compatible with capitalism. The fact is that it took capitalism to abolish slavery.

Wow, would you care to even try to explain that one? (Tortured logic is always fun.)

The explanation would be totally wasted on an brainwashed leftwing douche bag like you.

 

[JoeNormal]

I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.

Who's forcing them?

The difference between working reasonably hard and ridiculously hard is the difference between living in squalor and living in relative comfort.

 

[JoeNormal]

The free market has no morality. Slaves were bought and sold like property in a free market.

People are not property. Slavery has nothing to do with the free market.

If People declare a certain subset of 'people' to be property, yes, slavery becomes an exercisse of the free market.

That would be the same as government declaring everything you earn to be its property. The free market means all people are free to trade their labor for remuneration, not just a subset of them.

You simply want to define slavery as compatible with capitalism. The fact is that it took capitalism to abolish slavery.

Wow, would you care to even try to explain that one? (Tortured logic is always fun.)

The explanation would be totally wasted on an brainwashed leftwing douche bag like you.

Bwahaha! OMG dude, that is fucking precious!

 

[JoeNormal]

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

If you are used to paying 40% in taxes and such they got used to it.

Imagine if we had a tax holiday for three months and people really see how much federal and state taxes they pay .. .

It would be a revolt when they took it away.


.

I pay more than 40% of my income in order to have decent medical care, college fund for the kids and retirement when the time comes. That's all part of the package over there. Plus they eat real food, start out with 6 weeks of vacation and don't work themselves to an early grave.

Yes, you pay a lot more than 40%. It's more like 60%, and your medical care sucks.

Says the man who's never been anywhere.

I've probably been to more foreign countries than you have. I've even landed in several European cities, but I was just passing through.

You've probably been to a bunch of third world shit holes that make the U.S. look good by comparison.

 

[rdean]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

Like I said, he's great at pointing out the problems, but where are the solutions? And if you post a Bernie Sanders solution, remember, I read. If it says the typical BS other Bernie Sanders solutions have said, I will point out the BS. Believe it.

 

[Iceweasel]

I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.

Who's forcing them?

The difference between working reasonably hard and ridiculously hard is the difference between living in squalor and living in relative comfort.

Working reasonably hard lands you in squalorland? You must have the mad skills of a preteen.

 

[JoeNormal]

I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.

Who's forcing them?

The difference between working reasonably hard and ridiculously hard is the difference between living in squalor and living in relative comfort.

Working reasonably hard lands you in squalorland? You must have the mad skills of a preteen.

Well, that's what it gets you where I live. Of course in your home town, it'd get you your own trailer and all the Mac and cheese you can eat. Sounds like you're living pretty large.

And BTW, I'll put my mad skills up against your any time you want.

 

[Iceweasel]

I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.

Who's forcing them?

The difference between working reasonably hard and ridiculously hard is the difference between living in squalor and living in relative comfort.

Working reasonably hard lands you in squalorland? You must have the mad skills of a preteen.

Well, that's what it gets you where I live. Of course in your home town, it'd get you your own trailer and all the Mac and cheese you can eat.

Where's my home town?

 

[JoeNormal]

I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.

Who's forcing them?

The difference between working reasonably hard and ridiculously hard is the difference between living in squalor and living in relative comfort.

Working reasonably hard lands you in squalorland? You must have the mad skills of a preteen.

Well, that's what it gets you where I live. Of course in your home town, it'd get you your own trailer and all the Mac and cheese you can eat.

Where's my home town?

Since you appear to be an ultra right ideologue, I'll guess jerkwater USA.

 

[bripat9643]

If you are used to paying 40% in taxes and such they got used to it.

Imagine if we had a tax holiday for three months and people really see how much federal and state taxes they pay .. .

It would be a revolt when they took it away.


.

I pay more than 40% of my income in order to have decent medical care, college fund for the kids and retirement when the time comes. That's all part of the package over there. Plus they eat real food, start out with 6 weeks of vacation and don't work themselves to an early grave.

Yes, you pay a lot more than 40%. It's more like 60%, and your medical care sucks.

Says the man who's never been anywhere.

I've probably been to more foreign countries than you have. I've even landed in several European cities, but I was just passing through.

You've probably been to a bunch of third world shit holes that make the U.S. look good by comparison.

Australia, Singapore and South Korea are "third world shit holes?"

 

[JoeNormal]

I pay more than 40% of my income in order to have decent medical care, college fund for the kids and retirement when the time comes. That's all part of the package over there. Plus they eat real food, start out with 6 weeks of vacation and don't work themselves to an early grave.

Yes, you pay a lot more than 40%. It's more like 60%, and your medical care sucks.

Says the man who's never been anywhere.

I've probably been to more foreign countries than you have. I've even landed in several European cities, but I was just passing through.

You've probably been to a bunch of third world shit holes that make the U.S. look good by comparison.

Australia, Singapore and South Korea are "third world shit holes?"

I'm actually very surprised that you've been abroad and still harbor such provincial views. You still haven't been to nearly as many countries as I have however.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, you pay a lot more than 40%. It's more like 60%, and your medical care sucks.

Says the man who's never been anywhere.

I've probably been to more foreign countries than you have. I've even landed in several European cities, but I was just passing through.

You've probably been to a bunch of third world shit holes that make the U.S. look good by comparison.

Australia, Singapore and South Korea are "third world shit holes?"

I'm actually very surprised that you've been abroad and still harbor such provincial views. You still haven't been to nearly as many countries as I have however.

They are the truth. Unlike you, I don't view the world through pink spectacles

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why not? Because there is nothing moral about taking money from someone to give to someone else.

So it's immoral to have a democratic government that decides to collect taxes to help pay for the health and education of the poor.

See, that's how far off the planet the modern American conservative is.

No idiot, I said it is'nt moral to take money from some one and give it to someone else. That is Crazy Berie's whole schtick. His idea of a moral economy is income equality. That is what is immoral.

Equality of opportunity is moral, equality of outcome is not.

Its also Trumpery's and CrazyCruz's.

Difference is, with Bernie, you get something back.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Capitalism and free markets are the moral economy...

Thanks !

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I can't believe we have a flaming commie sympathizer/avowed Socialist calling for anything in this country. let alone running for President. sheeesh this country is doomed with the citizens of today

Well, I see Stefunny STILL has no clue.

Here's a simple explanation.

Probably over your head.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So-called "Nordic socialism" is indistinguishable from capitalism.

What are you afraid of then?

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

I know people who live in Germany and when they came here they thought they had died and gone to heaven. They thought our homes were enormous. They were amazed that everyone owned a car. In Germany they had to pay $50 bucks just to get on a tennis court. Forget about playing golf unless you're rich.

In short, you're lying.

So YOU'VE never been anywhere. Why am I not surprised? Yeah, our homes are enormous. So fucking what? Mine is almost 5000 sq ft but it's more of an investment than anything we actually need. And yeah, there are some other perks like cheap golf if that's your thing. Tennis for $50? Color me skeptical since they have some great parks. If I didn't have family and friends here plus a huge investment in time for career, I'd move to Europe in a heartbeat.

Same here.

If we didn't have a gorgeous home on a beautiful and pristine lake, we'd move to France or Belgium.

We have friends in both places who think Americans are just plain stupid.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

What could be more "immoral" than looting money from the people who earned it so you can dispense to ticks on the ass of society?

As it is, you support the 1% who do nothing for you in return.

DUH.