Bernie Calls For a Moral Economy; Why Not?

[PredFan]

No idiot, I said it is'nt moral to take money from some one and give it to someone else. That is Crazy Berie's whole schtick. His idea of a moral economy is income equality. That is what is immoral.

Equality of opportunity is moral, equality of outcome is not.

If I take your money and use it to provide healthcare for a poor person,

what about that is NOT taking money from you to give to someone else?

There is nothing moral about that.

So an entire nation, democratically governed, has no moral authority to accompany its legal authority to levy taxes to help the poor.

No moral authority, correct.

Since you now have established that you believe there is no such thing as morality, how, exactly, do you believe society should be run?

What a fucking idiot you are. I said no such thing. That'll teach me to even try to have a discussion with you.

 

[dannyboys]

Mankind's evolution was predicated on 'Darwinism'.
Period.
Always will be.
For LIBs a 'moral economy' is code for if you are smarter and work harder than your neighbor who is fucking dumb and lazy if you are a 'moral' person who will give him enough of your hard earned money so he can live the same lifestyle as you.
That's the LIB bottom line.
All this "just give your lazy dumb neighbor a 'little' of your hard earned money and if the other hard working neighbors do the same then the lazy dumb-fuck can also go to Jamaica for a month in the winter is bullshit!
Margaret Thatcher said: "Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money to spend".
Today in the US the top 20% of wage earners pay about 80% of all federal income taxes.
50% of wage earners pay zero in federal income tax.
That leaves about 30% of wage earners to pay about 20% of what is collected in federal income tax.
DO THE MATH!
The top 20% are already paying their 'fair share' and then some.
Then when you consider that the fucking US government payed almost 400K for a study which gave fucking rabbits daily swedish massages is it any wonder the 'Makers' are pissed off watching their hard earned money being pissed up a wall?
Top 20 Worst Ways the Government Wasted Your Tax Dollars
Read it a weep.

 

[jillian]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

*snip*

no congress would do anything for bernie.

that said, we should change things so corporations pay what they should and can't offshore their money....and make the top 1% pay what they should like they did more of before baby bush was president.

your point, though, since you're certainly not a bernie voter?

 

[jillian]

If I take your money and use it to provide healthcare for a poor person,

what about that is NOT taking money from you to give to someone else?

There is nothing moral about that.

So an entire nation, democratically governed, has no moral authority to accompany its legal authority to levy taxes to help the poor.

No moral authority, correct.

Since you now have established that you believe there is no such thing as morality, how, exactly, do you believe society should be run?

What a fucking idiot you are. I said no such thing. That'll teach me to even try to have a discussion with you.

you really shouldn't call anyone idiot.

the right hasn't shown any morality. that includes you.

 

[Desperado]

You cannot legislate morality no matter how hard you try.

 

[JimBowie1958]

no congress would do anything for bernie.

Why would they not do anything for Sanders when they have done lots for Obama that they did not have to? I think we are talking about a Democrat controled Senate also.

that said, we should change things so corporations pay what they should and can't offshore their money....and make the top 1% pay what they should like they did more of before baby bush was president.

Agreed

your point, though, since you're certainly not a bernie voter?

Lol, no, I am supporting Sanders, as Trump has displayed an inability to navigate the arcane primary and caucus of rules of his own party, which has undercut my confidence in his ability to handle other more complex issues.

Sanders has positions on various social issues that I totally disagree with like BLM and fag marriage, but The GOP is not going to change the status quo in these matters, so it is no loss to vote for Sanders despite them.

Sanders is the only one who is addressing the heart of the Corporate Crony Network problem, the Wall Street Banks are sponsoring the corruption of our political system via the allocation of very low interest loans to their favorite corporations that then distribute much of those funds to political groups, causes and politicians.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You cannot legislate morality no matter how hard you try.

Sure you can.

Murder is immoral and also illegal.

Theft is immoral and also illegal

The Saudis show us that you can also legislate morality on matters that are not so universally agreed to like consumption of alcohol and women drivers.

 

[Redfish]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

morals cannot be legislated.

 

[SmokeALib]

What does Bernie know about anything with the word "moral" in it?

 

[Redfish]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

*snip*

no congress would do anything for bernie.

that said, we should change things so corporations pay what they should and can't offshore their money....and make the top 1% pay what they should like they did more of before baby bush was president.

your point, though, since you're certainly not a bernie voter?

how much SHOULD corporations an high income people PAY?

We already have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. How much higher would you make it? and why would any company stay in the USA if you had your way?

same questions for rich people-----------how much and why would they stay?

 

[JimBowie1958]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

morals cannot be legislated.

Yes, they can.

Everything you believe is right or wrong, permissable or impermissable is a moral value, dude. ALL of our laws are based on our private moral values.

 

[jillian]

no congress would do anything for bernie.

Why would they not do anything for Sanders when they have done lots for Obama that they did not have to? I think we are talking about a Democrat controled Senate also.

that said, we should change things so corporations pay what they should and can't offshore their money....and make the top 1% pay what they should like they did more of before baby bush was president.

Agreed

your point, though, since you're certainly not a bernie voter?

Lol, no, I am supporting Sanders, as Trump has displayed an inability to navigate the arcane primary and caucus of rules of his own party, which has undercut my confidence in his ability to handle other more complex issues.

Sanders has positions on various social issues that I totally disagree with like BLM and fag marriage, but The GOP is not going to change the status quo in these matters, so it is no loss to vote for Sanders despite them.

Sanders is the only one who is addressing the heart of the Corporate Crony Network problem, the Wall Street Banks are sponsoring the corruption of our political system via the allocation of very low interest loans to their favorite corporations that then distribute much of those funds to political groups, causes and politicians.

for one...bernie can't win. trump will make mincemeat out of him. that's my opinion.

two... the GOP House probably won't change...he is not equipped to deal with their obstructionism.... same as they've tried to obstruct this president.

i think sanders raises some good issues. and i think he's moved other politicians in that direction. but ultimately, the things he wants aren't doable. his wish list is admirable, not practical however.

i see a vote for sanders as a vote for trump. but i understand where you are. and we do agree on at least some of the eonomimcs of it.... which i try to remember when i read your posts.

 

[Redfish]

What does Bernie know about anything with the word "moral" in it?

he has spent his entire life sucking the government tit. Never had a real job, never did any real work. But he is the savior of the left----------------this country is sick

 

[Redfish]

We can change tax policies to encourage a more moral and considerate form of economics, so why not do it?

Why do we prefer to live in an economic jungle instead of a 'well regulated' economic garden?

Which would you rather leave to your kids and grand kids?

At the Vatican, Sanders Calls for a ‘Moral Economy’
During a speech this morning at the Vatican, Senator Bernie Sanders advocated for an end to income inequality in America, condemned Wall Street for contributing to that inequality, and called for “a truly moral economy.”...


Sanders was the only presidential candidate invited to a conference at the Vatican today, which was hosted by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. According to The New York Times, Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, the academy’s chancellor, said Sanders was invited because he is “the candidate who cites the pope the most in his campaign.”

The conference marks the 25th anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus encyclical, which called for social and economic justice at the end of the Cold War. In that encyclical, the Pope spoke out against the “illicit exploitation, speculation, or the breaking of solidarity among working people” in pursuit of profit. That made the conference fertile ground for Sanders to discuss his core campaign issues, including income inequality and corporate greed.

But while Sanders is often challenged to explain the mechanics of his plans to decrease income inequality in the United States, the speech at the Vatican was a rare chance to lay out a purely moral argument for doing so.

“The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great economic issue of our time, the great political issue of our time, and the great moral issue of our time,” he said. “It is an issue that we must confront in my nation and across the world.”

Though Pope Francis wasn’t in attendance at the conference, Sanders invoked the Pope’s speeches and writings, showcasing the similarities between himself and Pope Francis.

“As Pope Francis has stated: ‘Man is not in charge today, money is in charge, money rules,'” Sanders said. “And the Pope has also stated: ‘We have created new idols. The worship of the golden calf of old has found a new and heartless image in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.'”

morals cannot be legislated.

Yes, they can.

Everything you believe is right or wrong, permissable or impermissable is a moral value, dude. ALL of our laws are based on our private moral values.

Ummm, how about the moral belief that abortion is murder? a majority of americans hold that belief. Should we make it law?

 

[Renae]

What does Bernie know about anything with the word "moral" in it?

he has spent his entire life sucking the government tit. Never had a real job, never did any real work. But he is the savior of the left----------------this country is sick

There is a huge appeal when someone is offering to bribe you for your vote. Democratic Socialism is the warning Tocville was giving us. "The American Experiment in democracy will fail when the people realize they can vote themselves gold from the treasury" (or the more accurate to this situation "When the politicians realize they can bribe the voters with gold from the treasury")

Which argument is more appealing to the historically ignorant, the economically inept, the civically dumb:
"Vote for me, I'll reduce the footprint of government, lower taxes, regulation, get Government out of the way and increase your opportunities!"

"Vote for me, I'll raise wages to $15 an hour, I'll make those evil rich bastards pay and give you your fair share, I'll make sure every one has college, housing, food!"

 

[PredFan]

There is nothing moral about that.

So an entire nation, democratically governed, has no moral authority to accompany its legal authority to levy taxes to help the poor.

No moral authority, correct.

Since you now have established that you believe there is no such thing as morality, how, exactly, do you believe society should be run?

What a fucking idiot you are. I said no such thing. That'll teach me to even try to have a discussion with you.

you really shouldn't call anyone idiot.

the right hasn't shown any morality. that includes you.

Look! Another left wing idiot spouting irrelevant nonsense.

I said no such thing. What is it with you dunces anyway? Illiteracy? Too much drugs? Lazy minds? Group think? Wtf is wrong with you people?

 

[JimBowie1958]

no congress would do anything for bernie.

Why would they not do anything for Sanders when they have done lots for Obama that they did not have to? I think we are talking about a Democrat controled Senate also.

that said, we should change things so corporations pay what they should and can't offshore their money....and make the top 1% pay what they should like they did more of before baby bush was president.

Agreed

your point, though, since you're certainly not a bernie voter?

Lol, no, I am supporting Sanders, as Trump has displayed an inability to navigate the arcane primary and caucus of rules of his own party, which has undercut my confidence in his ability to handle other more complex issues.

Sanders has positions on various social issues that I totally disagree with like BLM and fag marriage, but The GOP is not going to change the status quo in these matters, so it is no loss to vote for Sanders despite them.

Sanders is the only one who is addressing the heart of the Corporate Crony Network problem, the Wall Street Banks are sponsoring the corruption of our political system via the allocation of very low interest loans to their favorite corporations that then distribute much of those funds to political groups, causes and politicians.

for one...bernie can't win. trump will make mincemeat out of him. that's my opinion.

two... the GOP House probably won't change...he is not equipped to deal with their obstructionism.... same as they've tried to obstruct this president.

i think sanders raises some good issues. and i think he's moved other politicians in that direction. but ultimately, the things he wants aren't doable. his wish list is admirable, not practical however.

i see a vote for sanders as a vote for trump. but i understand where you are. and we do agree on at least some of the eonomimcs of it.... which i try to remember when i read your posts.

1. Sanders beats all the Republican nominees in head to head polls by a lot.

2. The House GOP doesnt have to change as they have made losing to the Dems a specialty. We need a new party to act as opposition to the Democrats as the GOP is just a built in fail.

3. A vote for Sanders is a vote for Sanders and no one else.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ummm, how about the moral belief that abortion is murder? a majority of americans hold that belief. Should we make it law?

I personally believe it should be made law, but the crux is defining when human 'personhood' begins. There is no doubt that it is human life, but then so are the living cells of my skin, so the key factor is not whether it is merely human living tissue, but if there is a person present. Everyone pretty much realizes this if they have given the subject much thought.

While on religious grounds I think personhood begins at conception, that is entirely based on my religious beliefs. I do not wish to impose that belief on others, but then anyone that has felt a baby kicking in the mother's womb knows that that child is a person that reacts to its mother environment. That is a person by common sense standards and we promote a disrespect for all human life when we arbitrarily say that it magically runs into a person after passing through the mothers vagina.

So, taking the methods by which we determine the death of a person, loss of measurable brain waves and heart beat, I think the same should apply in reverse; human personhood begins with the detection of measurable heart beat and brain activity. That would make abortion illegal in the last two trimesters.

So by using secular arguments, reasons and facts, I can see making my moral beliefs into law, but not when I can find no secular arguments to buttress those beliefs.

But still these are moral beliefs as moral beliefs do not have to be religious in nature to be moral values.

 

[JoeNormal]

What are you afraid of then?

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

If you are used to paying 40% in taxes and such they got used to it.

Imagine if we had a tax holiday for three months and people really see how much federal and state taxes they pay .. .

It would be a revolt when they took it away.


.

I pay more than 40% of my income in order to have decent medical care, college fund for the kids and retirement when the time comes. That's all part of the package over there. Plus they eat real food, start out with 6 weeks of vacation and don't work themselves to an early grave.

Yes, you pay a lot more than 40%. It's more like 60%, and your medical care sucks.

Says the man who's never been anywhere.

 

[JoeNormal]

What are you afraid of then?

Higher taxes and a lower standard of living.

I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere that has this kind of economy (probably think it would ruin your ideological purity). Most people who've visited these countries become pretty depressed when they return to the U.S.

I know people who live in Germany and when they came here they thought they had died and gone to heaven. They thought our homes were enormous. They were amazed that everyone owned a car. In Germany they had to pay $50 bucks just to get on a tennis court. Forget about playing golf unless you're rich.

In short, you're lying.

So YOU'VE never been anywhere. Why am I not surprised? Yeah, our homes are enormous. So fucking what? Mine is almost 5000 sq ft but it's more of an investment than anything we actually need. And yeah, there are some other perks like cheap golf if that's your thing. Tennis for $50? Color me skeptical since they have some great parks. If I didn't have family and friends here plus a huge investment in time for career, I'd move to Europe in a heartbeat.

You just admitted you are a lot better off here than in the so-called "democratic socialist" countries.

I did? I think what I said was that due to some fucked up puritanical work ethic, Americans are forced to work way too hard for a bunch of crap they don't need.