Bernie Sanders: We Will Raise Taxes On Anyone Making Over $29,000 To Fund Government Health Care

[Ray From Cleveland]

Have you ever given any thought to what profit is, what role it plays in an economy? You dismissed the idea that profit is payment for services rendered, but it is that, and more. It's a deliberate allocation of society's resources. It's people deliberately giving their money to the those who can best provide them with their wants and needs. That's a good thing. We want the people who are good at managing capital and labor to have more capital and labor to manage. The people who are best to have the most. Because they've proven they'll do things we like with that power. And if they don't, we'll stop giving them our money.

When we "eliminate profit" we break that feedback loop. We're essentially saying to consumers, "You're doing it wrong", that the priorities and values expressed by society via the market aren't valid and only government overseers can make the call. That, to me, is about as undemocratic as it gets. You'll may find consolation in the notion that you get to vote for the overseers every few years, but that's a sad replacement for the real time feedback of a free market - where "voters" can express themselves every day.

Non profits don't work? People who work at non profits dont' get paid? How about if you want a profit you forgo ALL government money?

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

You are partly correct. As an insulin dependent diabetic, I experience it.

The price of insulin kept getting higher and higher, mostly during the Bush years. I contacted the company to ask why, and got no real satisfactory answer. I did research on the internet, again, a dead end.

So when I went to my grocery store, just for the hell of it I asked about what they charge for insulin? They gave me a price of 40 bucks a vial. I use four a month and pay cash. But the pharmacist told me about Walmart generic insulin. Walmart insulin? Not in your life! You have to be nuts!!!

As time progressed, insulin continued to get more expensive. Out of desperation, I decided to take that grocery stores pharmacists advice. I went to Walmart.

When I got there, I only ordered one vial because I thought I'd have to contact my physician first. When she handed it to me, it was only $25.00. When I got home and opened it up, I realized it was not Walmart insulin at all. It was the same insulin from the same company I always purchased it from. The only difference was a tiny ® on the package, which stood for the name Reliance, the generic Walmart name.

The company that makes the insulin made a dirty deal with Walmart. They gave them a huge discounted rate on insulin, and dramatically increased it on every other pharmacy. I think, that should be illegal.

Why? You support profit. Obviously they are profiting. That is good right? This is the free market right?

Yes it is, but think of it this way:

People with prescription coverage never look into things like this, so they purchase their insulin at their favorite pharmacy, and tolerate the increasing prices. That makes medical coverage more expensive. People like me, who don't have such coverage, take the time to figure this all out, and if you're lucky enough to run into a pharmacist to tell you about it like I did, you save yourself hundreds of dollars every year. I believe now, the same insulin is over $75.00 a vial. I only pay $24.99.

The company is making the same amount of profit as they would selling their product to everybody at the same price. But there are a lot of people getting screwed in the process. I'm no longer one of those people.

 

[pknopp]

Non profits don't work? People who work at non profits dont' get paid? How about if you want a profit you forgo ALL government money?

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

You are partly correct. As an insulin dependent diabetic, I experience it.

The price of insulin kept getting higher and higher, mostly during the Bush years. I contacted the company to ask why, and got no real satisfactory answer. I did research on the internet, again, a dead end.

So when I went to my grocery store, just for the hell of it I asked about what they charge for insulin? They gave me a price of 40 bucks a vial. I use four a month and pay cash. But the pharmacist told me about Walmart generic insulin. Walmart insulin? Not in your life! You have to be nuts!!!

As time progressed, insulin continued to get more expensive. Out of desperation, I decided to take that grocery stores pharmacists advice. I went to Walmart.

When I got there, I only ordered one vial because I thought I'd have to contact my physician first. When she handed it to me, it was only $25.00. When I got home and opened it up, I realized it was not Walmart insulin at all. It was the same insulin from the same company I always purchased it from. The only difference was a tiny ® on the package, which stood for the name Reliance, the generic Walmart name.

The company that makes the insulin made a dirty deal with Walmart. They gave them a huge discounted rate on insulin, and dramatically increased it on every other pharmacy. I think, that should be illegal.

Why? You support profit. Obviously they are profiting. That is good right? This is the free market right?

Yes it is, but think of it this way:

People with prescription coverage never look into things like this, so they purchase their insulin at their favorite pharmacy, and tolerate the increasing prices. That makes medical coverage more expensive. People like me, who don't have such coverage, take the time to figure this all out, and if you're lucky enough to run into a pharmacist to tell you about it like I did, you save yourself hundreds of dollars every year. I believe now, the same insulin is over $75.00 a vial. I only pay $24.99.

The company is making the same amount of profit as they would selling their product to everybody at the same price. But there are a lot of people getting screwed in the process. I'm no longer one of those people.

Would it not be better if those who need insulin knew that the cost would be $32 no matter where they went?

 

[dblack]

You are arguing that profit is an important aspect of delivery health care. I am arguing it is not. I am not arguing to eliminate profit everywhere. I am arguing that when people can not access health care because shareholders are not happy with their returns, something is wrong.

You say "eliminate profit" as though you don't need to replace it with anything. And I'm trying to figure out if you understand the role that profit plays. How do you plan to replace that role with government?

I am not looking to replace profit in healthcare. I'm looking to ending it.

Ok, so you don't understand that it's not that simple. Because it's not. The people earning profits are working for their money. They're making daily decisions about how to best allocate society's labor and resources. If you eliminate them, those decisions still need to get made.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Have you ever given any thought to what profit is, what role it plays in an economy? You dismissed the idea that profit is payment for services rendered, but it is that, and more. It's a deliberate allocation of society's resources. It's people deliberately giving their money to the those who can best provide them with their wants and needs. That's a good thing. We want the people who are good at managing capital and labor to have more capital and labor to manage. The people who are best to have the most. Because they've proven they'll do things we like with that power. And if they don't, we'll stop giving them our money.

When we "eliminate profit" we break that feedback loop. We're essentially saying to consumers, "You're doing it wrong", that the priorities and values expressed by society via the market aren't valid and only government overseers can make the call. That, to me, is about as undemocratic as it gets. You'll may find consolation in the notion that you get to vote for the overseers every few years, but that's a sad replacement for the real time feedback of a free market - where "voters" can express themselves every day.

Non profits don't work? People who work at non profits dont' get paid? How about if you want a profit you forgo ALL government money?

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

We unfortunately do not work that way.

Why not? Universities do most of the work...…..

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

Insulin is more complicated, and better, than when it was extracted from pigs.

You asked. I answered. We charge many times higher than other countries.

We charge many times higher than other countries.

Of course we do. We do the research and they threaten to steal the IP.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is a ton of profit in college tuition.

Most colleges are non-profits.

That isn't what was said.

Because when government gets involved, stuff gets cheaper......DURR. <like college tuition, eh?
Eliminate the profit angle and there is no reason it shouldn't. <non-profit tuition getting cheaper?​

Yes, absolutely. Banks get money at near zero interest rates. If students got the same it would be cheaper.

Banks get money at near zero interest rates.

Where do they get this cheap money?

From the magic of the Federal Reserve.

If students got the same it would be cheaper.

Government didn't remove profit from student borrowing?

No.

From the magic of the Federal Reserve.

Banks borrow very little from the Fed. Banks are net lenders to the Fed.

Government didn't remove profit from student borrowing?
​

No.​

Then why did Obama have the government take over student loans?​

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

You are partly correct. As an insulin dependent diabetic, I experience it.

The price of insulin kept getting higher and higher, mostly during the Bush years. I contacted the company to ask why, and got no real satisfactory answer. I did research on the internet, again, a dead end.

So when I went to my grocery store, just for the hell of it I asked about what they charge for insulin? They gave me a price of 40 bucks a vial. I use four a month and pay cash. But the pharmacist told me about Walmart generic insulin. Walmart insulin? Not in your life! You have to be nuts!!!

As time progressed, insulin continued to get more expensive. Out of desperation, I decided to take that grocery stores pharmacists advice. I went to Walmart.

When I got there, I only ordered one vial because I thought I'd have to contact my physician first. When she handed it to me, it was only $25.00. When I got home and opened it up, I realized it was not Walmart insulin at all. It was the same insulin from the same company I always purchased it from. The only difference was a tiny ® on the package, which stood for the name Reliance, the generic Walmart name.

The company that makes the insulin made a dirty deal with Walmart. They gave them a huge discounted rate on insulin, and dramatically increased it on every other pharmacy. I think, that should be illegal.

Why? You support profit. Obviously they are profiting. That is good right? This is the free market right?

Yes it is, but think of it this way:

People with prescription coverage never look into things like this, so they purchase their insulin at their favorite pharmacy, and tolerate the increasing prices. That makes medical coverage more expensive. People like me, who don't have such coverage, take the time to figure this all out, and if you're lucky enough to run into a pharmacist to tell you about it like I did, you save yourself hundreds of dollars every year. I believe now, the same insulin is over $75.00 a vial. I only pay $24.99.

The company is making the same amount of profit as they would selling their product to everybody at the same price. But there are a lot of people getting screwed in the process. I'm no longer one of those people.

Would it not be better if those who need insulin knew that the cost would be $32 no matter where they went?

Didn't I just say that? When I did, you questioned me about profit motive for the company. I said that practice should be illegal. The nearest Walmart to me is about 15 miles away. My nearest pharmacy is about 2 miles away.

 

[dudmuck]

You are arguing that profit is an important aspect of delivery health care. I am arguing it is not. I am not arguing to eliminate profit everywhere. I am arguing that when people can not access health care because shareholders are not happy with their returns, something is wrong.

You say "eliminate profit" as though you don't need to replace it with anything. And I'm trying to figure out if you understand the role that profit plays. How do you plan to replace that role with government?

I am not looking to replace profit in healthcare. I'm looking to ending it.

Ok, so you don't understand that it's not that simple. Because it's not. The people earning profits are working for their money. They're making daily decisions about how to best allocate society's labor and resources. If you eliminate them, those decisions still need to get made.

In our healthcare: For every physician / medical doctor, there are 16 other workers. 8 of those works never see a patient.

 

[pknopp]

Non profits don't work? People who work at non profits dont' get paid? How about if you want a profit you forgo ALL government money?

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

We unfortunately do not work that way.

Why not? Universities do most of the work...…..

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

Insulin is more complicated, and better, than when it was extracted from pigs.

You asked. I answered. We charge many times higher than other countries.

We charge many times higher than other countries.

Of course we do. We do the research and they threaten to steal the IP.

As has been noted, we did NOT do the research on insulin and that makes absolutely no sense. If you create something you charge others more.

 

[Rustic]

You might pay more in taxes, but you would pay $20,000 a year less for health insurance.

Health Insurance Costs Surpass $20,000 Per Year, Hitting a Record

Lol
Forced socialized medicine/healthcare... how Communist

 

[pknopp]

Banks get money at near zero interest rates.

Where do they get this cheap money?

From the magic of the Federal Reserve.

If students got the same it would be cheaper.

Government didn't remove profit from student borrowing

No.

From the magic of the Federal Reserve.

Banks borrow very little from the Fed. Banks are net lenders to the Fed.

The Fed has pumped hundreds of billions into the market through 'repo' offerings. Here's what they are, and why they're back for the first time since the financial crisis. | Markets Insider

​

Government didn't remove profit from student borrowing?

No.

Then why did Obama have the government take over student loans?​

Because Obama was little more than a stooge for wall street.


One person’s debt is another person’s asset. What some owe, others own. And student debtors don’t just cut checks to lenders. Our money flows to third parties — including investors.

One rarely discussed feature of the “student loan industrial complex” is the $200 billion market for student loan asset-backed securities (SLABS). This is a circular business, involving lenders like Sallie Mae and big banks like Wells Fargo and Bank of America. Like mortgages, student loans get pooled and repackaged into new financial products (securities). The lenders then sell the securities to investors. Investors receive the reward of monthly loan payments, plus interest. They can hold the securities themselves, trade them or bet on them. In turn, lenders receive quick cash, including fees and commissions, and push the risk of the underlying loans onto investors. This shift allows lenders to make more, and larger, loans.

How Wall Street Profits From Student Debt

For people claiming I do not know what I am talking about, there sure are a lot of ignorant people who do not know how things work.

 

[Flash]

My god socialism is stupid. No wonder it fails to some degree or another no matter where or how it is implemented.

Tell Trump and his bail outs that.

I didn't vote for Trump so I don't have to tell him anything. Bail outs are bad no matter who does it. Orange Man bailouts bad. Negro Man bailouts were bad, especially the ones he gave to the big corporations and banks.

Glad that you are joining me in condemning all bailouts. You wouldn't be one of these partisan assholes that condemn Republican bailouts but justify Democrat bailouts, would you? Because if you did then that would be really hypocritical of you, wouldn't it?

Will you also joining me in condemning all welfare, entitlements, subsidies and grants, no matter who does them? How about debt?

 

[pknopp]

My god socialism is stupid. No wonder it fails to some degree or another no matter where or how it is implemented.

Tell Trump and his bail outs that.

I didn't vote for Trump so I don't have to tell him anything. Bail outs are bad no matter who does it. Orange Man bailouts bad. Negro Man bailouts were bad, especially the ones he gave to the big corporations and banks.

Glad that you are joining me in condemning all bailouts. You wouldn't be one of these partisan assholes that condemn Republican bailouts but justify Democrat bailouts, would you? Because if you did then that would be really hypocritical of you, wouldn't it?

Will you also joining me in condemning all welfare, entitlements, subsidies and grants, no matter who does them? How about debt?

I did not support any of them BUT since we obviously will not stop handing out money left and right to those who already have money, I'm certainly not going to stop arguing for the ability of people to affordably see a doctor when they need to.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

AT least he is willing to tell the truth, unlike all of the other candidates.

 

[Claudette]

Another looney idea brought to you by a loon.

 

[pknopp]

Another looney idea brought to you by a loon.

It's really sad that those like yourself are so uncaring when it comes to others. It's no wonder the country is in the mess it is.

 

[Desperado]

“We are going to have a healthcare that is far less expensive and far better,” Trump said.

Trump Calls 'Obamacare' 'Disaster' Vows To Immediately Repeal, Replace

It is not like he did not try. He failed because of the Dems and the Never Trumpers

 

[pknopp]

“We are going to have a healthcare that is far less expensive and far better,” Trump said.

Trump Calls 'Obamacare' 'Disaster' Vows To Immediately Repeal, Replace

It is not like he did not try. He failed because of the Dems and the Never Trumpers

He failed because he was a dick to McCain. And he had nothing to replace it with.

 

[Desperado]

“We are going to have a healthcare that is far less expensive and far better,” Trump said.

Trump Calls 'Obamacare' 'Disaster' Vows To Immediately Repeal, Replace

It is not like he did not try. He failed because of the Dems and the Never Trumpers

He failed because he was a dick to McCain.

That's right, among all his other faults and failures, McCain is the one we can blame for not getting rid of ObamaCare

 

[Weatherman2020]

Okay, now I know what you're talking about.

I contacted my cousin who is a research doctor years ago about that. She sent me back an explanation of what really goes on.

In short, pharmaceutical companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get a new drug on the market. After all this money spent, and all the time to get FDA approval (sometimes up to ten years) they have to make that money back.

Okay, so what happens when the drug companies spend all that time and money, and get rejected by the FDA? They recoup those losses on the drugs they already have on the market. It's the only way to stay in business.

Like doctors and hospitals, there is an expectation of liability in this country. So in the medications we buy, there is an intrinsic cost we all pay for legal protection. Just look at what the companies that manufacture opioid products are going through now.

When the media reports on things like this, all they tell you is that so and so produce a pill for twenty cents, and sell it for twenty dollars, but they never explain why.

Remove the profit.

Have you ever given any thought to what profit is, what role it plays in an economy? You dismissed the idea that profit is payment for services rendered, but it is that, and more. It's a deliberate allocation of society's resources. It's people deliberately giving their money to the those who can best provide them with their wants and needs. That's a good thing. We want the people who are good at managing capital and labor to have more capital and labor to manage. The people who are best to have the most. Because they've proven they'll do things we like with that power. And if they don't, we'll stop giving them our money.

When we "eliminate profit" we break that feedback loop. We're essentially saying to consumers, "You're doing it wrong", that the priorities and values expressed by society via the market aren't valid and only government overseers can make the call. That, to me, is about as undemocratic as it gets. You'll may find consolation in the notion that you get to vote for the overseers every few years, but that's a sad replacement for the real time feedback of a free market - where "voters" can express themselves every day.

Non profits don't work? People who work at non profits dont' get paid? How about if you want a profit you forgo ALL government money?

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

You’re free to start a company and give away as many free things as you wish.
Why are you just sitting there, get to it, lives are at stake!

 

[pknopp]

Remove the profit.

Have you ever given any thought to what profit is, what role it plays in an economy? You dismissed the idea that profit is payment for services rendered, but it is that, and more. It's a deliberate allocation of society's resources. It's people deliberately giving their money to the those who can best provide them with their wants and needs. That's a good thing. We want the people who are good at managing capital and labor to have more capital and labor to manage. The people who are best to have the most. Because they've proven they'll do things we like with that power. And if they don't, we'll stop giving them our money.

When we "eliminate profit" we break that feedback loop. We're essentially saying to consumers, "You're doing it wrong", that the priorities and values expressed by society via the market aren't valid and only government overseers can make the call. That, to me, is about as undemocratic as it gets. You'll may find consolation in the notion that you get to vote for the overseers every few years, but that's a sad replacement for the real time feedback of a free market - where "voters" can express themselves every day.

Non profits don't work? People who work at non profits dont' get paid? How about if you want a profit you forgo ALL government money?

Non profits don't work?

You have a list of drugs that a non-profit has run from discovery thru trials thru FDA approval to release?
The top 5 should be plenty.

We unfortunately do not work that way. Its the way I am arguing for.

Insulin was meant as a non profit until for profit companies got hold of it.

You’re free to start a company and give away as many free things as you wish.
Why are you just sitting there, get to it, lives are at stake!

What is this thread about? It's about paying for health care. If unable to comprehend a simple concept, stay on the sidelines.