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No but Obama was correct also. Everything you know is a lie. of course Obamacare was all they could get at the time and is a framework for reform which we will never get with your scumbag Heroes, brainwashed functional moron.Everyone who has health insurance would save money under this plan
LMAO Obama is that you??
Bernie's plan would give us the ability to strongly go after costs which are the actual problem after having a scam GOP system forever.
No but Obama was correct also. Everything you know is a lie. of course Obamacare was all they could get at the time and is a framework for reform which we will never get with your scumbag Heroes, brainwashed functional moron.Everyone who has health insurance would save money under this plan
LMAO Obama is that you??
Bernie's plan would give us the ability to strongly go after costs which are the actual problem after having a scam GOP system forever.
Why don't you mooching deadbeats get a job and pay for your own health insurance like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for YOUR health insurance, or your damn cable bill or buy your groceries snowflakes.
people in the real world know that is just another of your hundreds of phony scandals that go nowhere in the real world, brainwashed functional moron. It would be nice to have an honest public servant again after this scumbag mobbed up lying fool con man fraud...so I'm for Biden and the public option because it is all important that we get your scumbag Heroes out of the White House etc etc.
Biden is toast, we threw him under the bus with the Ukraine scandal.
Nobody pays it.
Bill: $9000
Insurance: pays $3800.
You owe: $240.
No, we all pay for it. Do you think doctors and hospitals operate at a loss? They get that lost money back from other places.
It's also why these figures are all wrong by Sander's or anybody else. They are calculating what it would cost for all of us to be on Medicare, not figuring in how to pay for those losses since private pay and private insurance would no longer be doing it.
I disagree.
When medical providers are only paid a third of what they charge, they are not operating at a loss.
It is just that they have jacked up their bills by over 4 times what they should be.
The savings that would pay for medicare for all would be the billions currently wasted on filling out private insurance claims, prepaying premiums, tax exempt employer benefits, incredibly jacked up provider charges, profit skimming by insurance companies and medical corporation monopolies, etc.
Other countries prove health care costs can be cut in half and still provide better quality service.
Nobody has better healthcare than the US when it comes to quality.
I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. In fact, was just there yesterday to get checked out. When you go to their downtown campus, you are the one who feels like a foreigner.
It's not just patients, it's doctors as well. They either come here from their socialized medical care countries to make some real money, or come here, get educated, and never return home. So because of our system, we draw the best talent from around the world.
My sister works there as well. She can testify to the amount of Canadian patients at the Clinic looking for some relief that they couldn't get in their socialized medical care country. In fact, all our northern hospitals have Canadian patients.
So you can't tell me of another country that's problem-less either. They all have either extremely slow services, low quality equipment, medications we quit using decades ago, or outright refuse to treat some people. Nobody has a perfect medial system, including ours.
Not at all true.
The US is ranked something like 29th in health care.
Medical tourism FROM the US is 100 times higher than people coming to the US for medical care.
The only people coming to the US for medical care are the very wealthy who want elite care.
That is not what most people in the US get.
The US has over 100,000 a year dying from medical malpractice, and is one of the worst in the world for health care quality.
The fact we pay physicians more does not mean we get better quality health care.
Writing bad mortgages had nothing at all to do with the 2008 real estate collapse.
What caused the collapse was bundling the bad mortgages into derivatives that then were traded as stocks, as if they were of far greater value than they really were, both allowing banks to pretend they had more assets than they really did, and to essentially force government to secure risky stock investments the government would not have had to secure if Glass-Steagall had not been repealled.
The proof these were not bad mortgages in the first place, is that people had been successfully making payments on them for many years.
It was the changes in 2008 that doubled their monthly payment that caused the home buyers to default, and that was NOT their fault. Blaming individual home buyers is totally incorrect.
Writing bad mortgages had nothing at all to do with the 2008 real estate collapse.
That's hilarious!!
The proof these were not bad mortgages in the first place, is that people had been successfully making payments on them for many years.
Refinancing during the growth phase of a bubble is easy.
It was the changes in 2008 that doubled their monthly payment that caused the home buyers to default
You mean that mortgages that were current at 1% interest and in default at 5% interest were good mortgages?
and that was NOT their fault.
People who took out loans they couldn't afford are entirely blameless?
The mortage defaults were never allowed to refinance.
The bubble busting made their home not worth enough for them to qualify.
They owed more than the home was worth.
But they still would have kept making their old payments because they would want to protect their down payment.
But they could not make the new ARM payments that as much as doubled.
There were no 1% interest mortgages.
They lowest mortgages during the bubble were around 8%, and the bust made them jump to over 15%.
The drop to 3% did not happen until years later, when there were so many foreclosures that banks had to eventually drop rates.
Almost no one took out real estate loans they could not afford.
They were making the payments successfully, and could have continued doing so.
It was their rates being jack up deceptively by ARM loans that forced them to default.
Do you think they just wanted to throw away their down payment and years of monthly payments?
They liked being make homeless?
Again, read about the LIBOR scandal.
Libor scandal - Wikipedia
But they could not make the new ARM payments that as much as doubled.
If you can only afford the teaser rate.....chances are you got a bad mortgage.
There were no 1% interest mortgages.
There were definitely mortgages with very low teaser rates as well as negative amortization mortgages.
They lowest mortgages during the bubble were around 8%,
If rates were 8% or higher, the bubble wouldn't have happened.
and the bust made them jump to over 15%.
You're lying.
It was their rates being jack up deceptively by ARM loans that forced them to default.
Deceptively? LOL!
When was the last time you took out a mortgage?
The pages and pages of rate disclosure documents are hard to miss.
Do you think they just wanted to throw away their down payment and years of monthly payments?
Many had very low or no down payment at all.
First of all, teaser rates most definitely ARE DECEPTIVE and not the fault of the borrower.
Second is that the loan paper work did NOT disclose that the loan was based on the British LIBOR instead of the US Prime, and that in a recession when the US Prime would go down, the LIBOR would greatly go UP!
The only reason we're ranked 29th is because not everybody has equal coverage.
Bernie the angry elder and his angry younger minions want to punish those who put this country on their back, sacrificed and saved, and made the USA great, They are angry because the woikd not and did not do it themselves and they feel justified to take..take..take..
Who is working for the billions the Fed just pumped into wall street?
Why don't you mooching deadbeats get a job and pay for your own health insurance like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for YOUR health insurance, or your damn cable bill or buy your groceries snowflakes.
Too late. You do now.
Correct, but working people are more likely to pay the rest than a senior citizen.
Nobody pays it.
Bill: $9000
Insurance: pays $3800.
You owe: $240.
No, we all pay for it. Do you think doctors and hospitals operate at a loss? They get that lost money back from other places.
It's also why these figures are all wrong by Sander's or anybody else. They are calculating what it would cost for all of us to be on Medicare, not figuring in how to pay for those losses since private pay and private insurance would no longer be doing it.
No they don't. It's a tax scam. They take the money they get (and obviously do very well) and then write the "paper loss" off on their taxes.
Write offs don't amount to much. I have nearly a hundred every year. They still lose money if they don't make it up elsewhere.
They don't lose a cent if the bills are artificially and deliberately inflated by over 75%.
And they are.
Which is why ACA is not a fix.
The providers are still way over charging.
Medicare for All reminds me of the original Obamacare, "Health Care for America Plan" which contained a public option allowing people to transfer to a Medicare like system without age restriction. The public option was of course a major target of the insurance companies and was dropped almost immediately by congress.
I think there are some misconceptions about how the Medicare for All proposals would be implemented. Once congress gets hold of any of the current proposals, they would change radically.
- First, it would not be Medicare. It would be a healthcare plan similar to Medicare but would look more like an employer sponsored plan than Medicare.
- It would be phased in over many years opening up first to older Americans and gradually extended to all ages.
- Lastly, there would be supplemental insurance just as there is with Medicare.
Any national healthcare plan would be a series of compromises. We have to remember this is not 1965 when Medicare was passed where deals were made between democrats and republicans to pass major legislation and the influence of lobbyists was far less than today.
What would actually stand a chance at working is allow people with preexisting conditions to go on Medicare. That would remove all the high risk patients from private insurance, and that would cause a price decrease, or at the very least, a price freeze.
Next is Medicare and Medicaid needs to start paying the entire bill instead of only part of it.
In any case, nothing gets done the right way until we work on lowering the cost of medical care first. If we don't do that, we're just passing the buck around.
Why don't you mooching deadbeats get a job and pay for your own health insurance like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for YOUR health insurance, or your damn cable bill or buy your groceries snowflakes.
Too late. You do now.
I point and laugh at mooching Dem's. Some states don't have a state income tax I live in one on purpose
As if you would know, brainwash functional moron. LOL. Fifteen million people were added to Medicaid so they have health care, and 75% of those on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month, and people with pre-existing can get great coverage. Approval of it is up to 55% at least even though it is sabotaged by the GOP as much as possible. You got to love those guys. My feeling is that you will all be going to hell. Willful ignorance will not go over well....No but Obama was correct also. Everything you know is a lie. of course Obamacare was all they could get at the time and is a framework for reform which we will never get with your scumbag Heroes, brainwashed functional moron.Everyone who has health insurance would save money under this plan
LMAO Obama is that you??
Bernie's plan would give us the ability to strongly go after costs which are the actual problem after having a scam GOP system forever.
If the wrong thing is all you can get you don't go forward with that.
I said at the time and it's true that Obamacare will only make it harder in the future for others to do the right thing because people will point to Obamacare as what was done before and it accomplished very little.
I have better idea.
Why don't we for the time being keep the taxes where they are and cut back on spending? The money we cut back on we could use to pay the debt.
We could easily cut back a couple of trillion a year on Federal spending and still spend more money on the cost of government than almost any other country on earth.
When everything is paid off then we can reduce taxes by the amount we had been spending on the debt. Win win for everybody except the filthy welfare queens that suck on the teat of big government.
I pretty much agree except that there really is no federal welfare to speak of.
There is ADC, but no one can really live on that, and that is for the children, not adults.
It is military spending we need to cut back by trillions.
View attachment 291983
Federal government current transfer payments: Government social benefits: to persons | FRED | St. Louis Fed
Damn!
That's an increase of a trillion a year since Q1 2008.
No, that is a steep DECREASE since it has not kept up with inflation.
I think it is around 2% per year, and that is over an 11 years span, so should be about 25% increase in total.
No, that is a steep DECREASE since it has not kept up with inflation.
$1.321 trillion in Q1 2008 to $2.353 trillion in Q3 2019 (11.5 years) is 2% a year?
Looks more like 5.148% a year.
You are right my math was off.
But when you expand the graph on both sides, you see the graph is steeper under Bush and Trump, than it is under Obama.
And I am still not sure what "federal government social benefits paid to persons" actually are?
Why don't you mooching deadbeats get a job and pay for your own health insurance like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for YOUR health insurance, or your damn cable bill or buy your groceries snowflakes.
Too late. You do now.
I point and laugh at mooching Dem's. Some states don't have a state income tax I live in one on purpose
They get their taxes in other ways.
I got Dem's by the balls on taxes 
All you rich folks making $14 an hour need to bear the burden.
Sanders: Families Making $29,000 Will ‘Pay More In Taxes’ For Medicare For All - The Partnership for America’s Health Care Future
As if you would know, brainwash functional moron. LOL. Fifteen million people were added to Medicaid so they have health care, and 75% of those on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month, and people with pre-existing can get great coverage. Approval of it is up to 55% at least even though it is sabotaged by the GOP as much as possible. You got to love those guys. My feeling is that you will all be going to hell. Willful ignorance will not go over well....No but Obama was correct also. Everything you know is a lie. of course Obamacare was all they could get at the time and is a framework for reform which we will never get with your scumbag Heroes, brainwashed functional moron.Everyone who has health insurance would save money under this plan
LMAO Obama is that you??
Bernie's plan would give us the ability to strongly go after costs which are the actual problem after having a scam GOP system forever.
If the wrong thing is all you can get you don't go forward with that.
I said at the time and it's true that Obamacare will only make it harder in the future for others to do the right thing because people will point to Obamacare as what was done before and it accomplished very little.
Nobody pays it.
Bill: $9000
Insurance: pays $3800.
You owe: $240.
No, we all pay for it. Do you think doctors and hospitals operate at a loss? They get that lost money back from other places.
It's also why these figures are all wrong by Sander's or anybody else. They are calculating what it would cost for all of us to be on Medicare, not figuring in how to pay for those losses since private pay and private insurance would no longer be doing it.
No they don't. It's a tax scam. They take the money they get (and obviously do very well) and then write the "paper loss" off on their taxes.
Write offs don't amount to much. I have nearly a hundred every year. They still lose money if they don't make it up elsewhere.
They don't lose a cent if the bills are artificially and deliberately inflated by over 75%.
And they are.
Which is why ACA is not a fix.
The providers are still way over charging.
They have to again, to recoup their losses. And remember Medicare is not their only loss. So is Medicaid or any government program. Then of course, the uninsured.
Medicare for All reminds me of the original Obamacare, "Health Care for America Plan" which contained a public option allowing people to transfer to a Medicare like system without age restriction. The public option was of course a major target of the insurance companies and was dropped almost immediately by congress.
I think there are some misconceptions about how the Medicare for All proposals would be implemented. Once congress gets hold of any of the current proposals, they would change radically.
- First, it would not be Medicare. It would be a healthcare plan similar to Medicare but would look more like an employer sponsored plan than Medicare.
- It would be phased in over many years opening up first to older Americans and gradually extended to all ages.
- Lastly, there would be supplemental insurance just as there is with Medicare.
Any national healthcare plan would be a series of compromises. We have to remember this is not 1965 when Medicare was passed where deals were made between democrats and republicans to pass major legislation and the influence of lobbyists was far less than today.
What would actually stand a chance at working is allow people with preexisting conditions to go on Medicare. That would remove all the high risk patients from private insurance, and that would cause a price decrease, or at the very least, a price freeze.
Next is Medicare and Medicaid needs to start paying the entire bill instead of only part of it.
In any case, nothing gets done the right way until we work on lowering the cost of medical care first. If we don't do that, we're just passing the buck around.
No, Medicare and Medicaid is paying the only valid portion of the bill.
What we have to do is stop the insurance companies from paying more of the bill than Medicare does.
The current bills are incredibly fake and inflated.
That is the whole problem of 3rd party payer, they LIKE inflated bills because then everyone absolutely needs to have insurance even more.
The whole problem is 3rd party payer, who does not care about quality or cost.
The patient can do nothing because they already prepaid.
It is like prepaid legal service, can not possibly ever work.
every time the GOP has cut taxes on the rich the last 35 years and passed it on with less federal aid to states and localities, state and local taxes have gone up which kills the non-rich. so now we have a flat tax system if you count all taxes, not the garbage you're told. Google the only tax graph you need to know and stop being a goddamn idiot, oops brain washed functional idiot.Why don't you mooching deadbeats get a job and pay for your own health insurance like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for YOUR health insurance, or your damn cable bill or buy your groceries snowflakes.
Too late. You do now.
I point and laugh at mooching Dem's. Some states don't have a state income tax I live in one on purpose
They get their taxes in other ways.
As if you would know, brainwash functional moron. LOL. Fifteen million people were added to Medicaid so they have health care, and 75% of those on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month, and people with pre-existing can get great coverage. Approval of it is up to 55% at least even though it is sabotaged by the GOP as much as possible. You got to love those guys. My feeling is that you will all be going to hell. Willful ignorance will not go over well....
