Big Brother Walks With You

[g5000]

Prior to 9/11, law enforcement had a long wish list of police powers they wanted which were not available to them at the time. They wanted these powers for domestic law enforcement.

When America lost its collective mind in the wake of 9/11, the PATRIOT Act gave law enforcement many of those powers they had longed for, all under the guise of the "War on Terror™". Some voices tried to warn these powers would not be restricted to fighting terrorits for long. These powers would one day be used against us.

When evidence of the government spying on us began flooding into the mainstream consciousness in 2006, most people were still in full throated fear of terrorism. Upon learning of this massive domestic spying effort, they cheered the Administration for these things and, as justification for their support of these police powers and the trampling of the Constitution, they pointed out no attacks had occurred on American soil since 9/11.

Some of these maniacs did not discover the Constitution and liberty until the police baton was passed to a Democrat in 2009. Reports of domestic spying are now treated as a revelation by such people.

I have often half-joked that somewhere in a storage room in the US Capitol is a shrink-wrapped copy of PATRIOT Act II. It is sitting there collecting dust, waiting for another 9/11 style attack.

PATRIOT Act II will give meter maids the power to shoot double parkers.

So now I am reading about the NSA tracking cellphone locations:

The National Security Agency is gathering nearly 5 billion records a day on the whereabouts of cellphones around the world, according to top-secret documents and interviews with U.S. intelligence officials, enabling the agency to track the movements of individuals — and map their relationships — in ways that would have been previously unimaginable.

The NSA does not target Americans’ location data by design, but the agency acquires a substantial amount of information on the whereabouts of domestic cellphones “incidentally,” a legal term that connotes a foreseeable but not deliberate result.

The government is tracking people from afar into confidential business meetings or personal visits to medical facilities, hotel rooms, private homes and other traditionally protected spaces.

This program is called, so fittingly it is chilling, "CO-TRAVELER".

Wherever you go, the NSA is travelling with you.

So here's the thing I am getting to. The NSA says the tracking of innocent Americans is "incidental". They can't filter out good guys from suspects in all that data. They need all that data so they can see what other people the bad guys' travelling intersect with.

That's their official line.

But under questioning, the NSA admitted something which should spook every one of us:

NSA Director Keith Alexander disclosed in Senate testimony in October that the NSA had run a pilot project in 2010 and 2011 to collect “samples” of U.S. cellphone location data. The data collected were never available for intelligence analysis purposes, and the project was discontinued because it had no “operational value,” he said.

No operational value? Sure. For now. But why would they do such a pilot program unless they had a wish list item which wanted to be able to track American criminal suspects?


And here it is:

Alexander allowed that a broader collection of such data “may be something that is a future requirement for the country, but it is not right now.”

PATRIOT Act II. It's out there. Waiting.

Maybe under a different name, but it's out there.

 

[Destroyer2]

See, this is the stuff that actually scares me.

And I'm not one that easily scares.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Prior to 9/11, law enforcement had a long wish list of police powers they wanted which were not available to them at the time. They wanted these powers for domestic law enforcement.

When America lost its collective mind in the wake of 9/11, the PATRIOT Act gave law enforcement many of those powers they had longed for, all under the guise of the "War on Terror™". Some voices tried to warn these powers would not be restricted to fighting terrorits for long. These powers would one day be used against us.

When evidence of the government spying on us began flooding into the mainstream consciousness in 2006, most people were still in full throated fear of terrorism. Upon learning of this massive domestic spying effort, they cheered the Administration for these things and, as justification for their support of these police powers and the trampling of the Constitution, they pointed out no attacks had occurred on American soil since 9/11.

Some of these maniacs did not discover the Constitution and liberty until the police baton was passed to a Democrat in 2009. Reports of domestic spying are now treated as a revelation by such people.

I have often half-joked that somewhere in a storage room in the US Capitol is a shrink-wrapped copy of PATRIOT Act II. It is sitting there collecting dust, waiting for another 9/11 style attack.

PATRIOT Act II will give meter maids the power to shoot double parkers.

So now I am reading about the NSA tracking cellphone locations:

The National Security Agency is gathering nearly 5 billion records a day on the whereabouts of cellphones around the world, according to top-secret documents and interviews with U.S. intelligence officials, enabling the agency to track the movements of individuals — and map their relationships — in ways that would have been previously unimaginable.

The NSA does not target Americans’ location data by design, but the agency acquires a substantial amount of information on the whereabouts of domestic cellphones “incidentally,” a legal term that connotes a foreseeable but not deliberate result.

This program is called, so fittingly it is chilling, "CO-TRAVELER".

Wherever you go, the NSA is travelling with you.

So here's the thing I am getting to. The NSA says the tracking of innocent Americans is "incidental". They can't filter out good guys from suspects in all that data. They need all that data so they can see what other people the bad guys' travelling intersect with.

That's their official line.

But under questioning, the NSA admitted something which should spook every one of us:

NSA Director Keith Alexander disclosed in Senate testimony in October that the NSA had run a pilot project in 2010 and 2011 to collect “samples” of U.S. cellphone location data. The data collected were never available for intelligence analysis purposes, and the project was discontinued because it had no “operational value,” he said.

No operational value? Sure. For now. But why would they do such a pilot program unless they had a wish list item which wanted to be able to track American criminal suspects?


And here it is:

Alexander allowed that a broader collection of such data “may be something that is a future requirement for the country, but it is not right now.”

PATRIOT Act II. It's out there. Waiting.

Maybe under a different name, but it's out there.

I'm sure we can get republicans and democrats together, to work in a bipartisan way, to fix all the problems with this. Then everything will be smooooooooth sailing!

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They walk with everyone now, E911 in every cell phone. I was and still am against the creation of the HS Dept.

 

[whitehall]

Americans trusted president Bush to use the expanded law-enforcement powers responsibly but Americans had no way of knowing that an irresponsible president would be elected and abuse the powers.

 

[g5000]

See, this is the stuff that actually scares me.

And I'm not one that easily scares.

Since you are here, our records show you were at the No Tell Motel between the hours of 1:23 and 1:29 am on the 23rd of November. This is lodging known as a business for hookers. Care to explain?

Six minutes. Some of the fellas around here have given you the codename Quick Draw.

Also, cell phone tracking records show you were travelling 68 mph in a 55 mph zone on your way home. A ticket is in the mail to your DMV record of address, along with evidentiary maps and computer records, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is for.

We addressed it to your wife. We got her name off your IRS tax returns.

 

[kiwiman127]

I was called unpatriotic for voicing anger over our government spying on US citizens when the news broke about all the listening our government was doing. I was kinda like a lonely voice in the wilderness. I am no longer a lonely unpatriotic soul!
And you're right g5000, there are more surprises on the way.
Bin Laden and al Qaeda have won a battle.

 

[g5000]

Americans trusted president Bush to use the expanded law-enforcement powers responsibly...

First mistake. Over 3000 violations of NSLs, imprisoning US citizens without habaes corpus, spying on millions of Americans' phone records, etc. Yeah, he was definitely responsible for that.

... but Americans had no way of knowing that an irresponsible president would be elected and abuse the powers.

We're still talking about Bush, right?

 

[kiwiman127]

Americans trusted president Bush to use the expanded law-enforcement powers responsibly but Americans had no way of knowing that an irresponsible president would be elected and abuse the powers.

You just can't help yourself, can you? This is a tag team match buddy. Bush and Obama versus our privacy and freedom.

 

[whitehall]

Federal law-enforcement has gone rogue many times and usually the honest media keeps them in line. Federal cops entrapped an innocent man at Ruby Ridge and shot his son in the back and his wife while she was holding an 18th month baby in her arms. The same rogue agency botched a simple search warrant to such an extent that it ended up with tanks and poison gas and the burning of 80 men, women and children alive. The media justified the abuse of power because a liberal democrat was in the White House. Today the liberal administration is considering arming a little army of IRS agents to enforce a 3,000 page law that nobody understands and spying and evesdropping violations are rampant. The media we used to trust to pressure the federal government is absent.

 

[g5000]

Federal law-enforcement has gone rogue many times and usually the honest media keeps them in line. Federal cops entrapped an innocent man at Ruby Ridge and shot his son in the back and his wife while she was holding an 18th month baby in her arms. The same rogue agency botched a simple search warrant to such an extent that it ended up with tanks and poison gas and the burning of 80 men, women and children alive. The media justified the abuse of power because a liberal democrat was in the White House. Today the liberal administration is considering arming a little army of IRS agents to enforce a 3,000 page law that nobody understands and spying and evesdropping violations are rampant. The media we used to trust to pressure the federal government is absent.

The media watchdog is now a lapdog to government. They party with each other. Literally.

Not kidding.

We're on our own.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Federal law-enforcement has gone rogue many times and usually the honest media keeps them in line. Federal cops entrapped an innocent man at Ruby Ridge and shot his son in the back and his wife while she was holding an 18th month baby in her arms. The same rogue agency botched a simple search warrant to such an extent that it ended up with tanks and poison gas and the burning of 80 men, women and children alive. The media justified the abuse of power because a liberal democrat was in the White House. Today the liberal administration is considering arming a little army of IRS agents to enforce a 3,000 page law that nobody understands and spying and evesdropping violations are rampant. The media we used to trust to pressure the federal government is absent.

The media watchdog is now a lapdog to government. They party with each other. Literally.

Not kidding.

But, somehow or another, many of the same people can be trusted to come together to fix the bureaucratic nightmare that is O-care.

And if you really believe that one is separate from the other anymore, you are really off your nut.

 

[g5000]

The thing about a totalitarian government which has nearly omnipotent power is...they have this tendency to find the crimes they are looking for, even when they aren't really there.

 

[Trajan]

Americans trusted president Bush to use the expanded law-enforcement powers responsibly...

First mistake. Over 3000 violations of NSLs, imprisoning US citizens without habaes corpus, spying on millions of Americans' phone records, etc. Yeah, he was definitely responsible for that.

... but Americans had no way of knowing that an irresponsible president would be elected and abuse the powers.

We're still talking about Bush, right?

I believe the issue over habeas corpus went to the SC...and the issue over phone records etc. was outted as well, the hydra grew, it always does.

its been 5 years, so I think we need to start thinking about what this admin. is or has been doing. Bush didn't hide his sppt. of the pat act, obama has as usual double talked his way round it to make himself appear aloof or in contravention of/from any of the goings on, when his own DOJ fought sunset provision and to renew the pat act etc....*shrugs*

 

[HelenaHandbag]

The thing about a totalitarian government which has nearly omnipotent power is...they have this tendency to find the crimes they are looking for, even when they aren't really there.

Uh, yeah.

So, why is that so much of a concern for you here, yet not so much with the O-care Frankenstein's monster?

 

[Trajan]

The thing about a totalitarian government which has nearly omnipotent power is...they have this tendency to find the crimes they are looking for, even when they aren't really there.

I agree. Its like every bureaucracy, it seeks to enhance its reach and justify its existence.

 

[g5000]

The thing about a totalitarian government which has nearly omnipotent power is...they have this tendency to find the crimes they are looking for, even when they aren't really there.

Uh, yeah.

So, why is that so much of a concern for you here, yet not so much with the O-care Frankenstein's monster?

You efforts to derail this topic are in vain. You are also badly mistaken if you think I support ObamaCare.

 

[MACAULAY]

Guilty.

I was one of the fools who thought that the Patriot Act was about getting control of the Lunatic Muslims.

And it originally was, but in the hands of a malevolent government, it is obviously very dangerous to our liberty.

Under the present administration, which is filled with leftwing loon liars, a "terrorist" is every white boy with a hunting rifle from Montana to Mississippi; from Arizona to Pennsylvania.

The Heartland.

I repent of past complacency on this matter. I never knew it would get this far out of hand this quickly.

The fact is that throughout our history, we have been willing to give up a little liberty during times of great peril. Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. Roosevelt put Japanese in concentration camps.

Always there is a continuous drumbeat for the forces of liberty to repent of the necessary evil as soon as the peril is over....except not this time....because Obama has found a valuable abuse for the power Bush left him.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

The thing about a totalitarian government which has nearly omnipotent power is...they have this tendency to find the crimes they are looking for, even when they aren't really there.

Uh, yeah.

So, why is that so much of a concern for you here, yet not so much with the O-care Frankenstein's monster?

You efforts to derail this topic are in vain. You are also badly mistaken if you think I support ObamaCare.

It's not derailing. If you think the surveillance state can be separated out from the rest of the leviathan, you have another thing coming.

After that, you can't seem to muster the same level of fear and outrage for your total loss of privacy that is part and parcel to O-care. No, you think that republicans can and should join together ti fix it. Same foolhardy mindset applies here.

It's the same overreaching totalitarian state, dude.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

See, this is the stuff that actually scares me.

And I'm not one that easily scares.

Since you are here, our records show you were at the No Tell Motel between the hours of 1:23 and 1:29 am on the 23rd of November. This is lodging known as a business for hookers. Care to explain?

Six minutes. Some of the fellas around here have given you the codename Quick Draw.

Also, cell phone tracking records show you were travelling 68 mph in a 55 mph zone on your way home. A ticket is in the mail to your DMV record of address, along with evidentiary maps and computer records, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is for.

We addressed it to your wife. We got her name off your IRS tax returns.

Absent a warrant, there’s nothing to ‘explain.’

In fact, none of what the NSA collects can be used in a court of law; in order to pursue criminal prosecution the state would need to obtain a warrant to collect and use that information.

As for cell phone records, there is no expectation of privacy with regard to information provided to a private third party, such as a wireless company or ISP.

The surveillance programs are both legal and Constitutional, they exist at the behest of the American people as enacted into law by their elected representatives. And it’s the sole responsibility of the American people to seek to have these laws repealed.

Of course, lawmakers did not enact these measures out of a desire to ‘protect’ the American people, nor were they encouraged to do so by the nefarious motives suggested in the OP; rather, they were enacted as a consequence of their fear of the American people, and the wrath of the voters should indeed another 9/11 occur.

Rather than whining about the surveillance programs in yet another pointless ‘ain’t it awful’ thread, propose and explore instead ways to prevent another 9/11 while at the same time safeguarding our civil liberties.