Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[hadit]

Hearts filled with hatred is why. They thought a mighty king was coming to wipe the romans out. A mere carpenters son showed up and told them they were wrong on certain matters. Their haughty hearts thought they were better than mere lowly flock members. They were fully apostatized at that point.

I'm sorry, dude, but you're just theorizing here.

Now, I've asked you before, who has the power to not only forgive sin, but to give eternal life?

 

[kjw47]

Because the Jews knew what He meant, and that He was taking one of God's titles for Himself. If, as you continue to falsely claim, they were completely different titles, they would not have been offended. They would have thought he was crazy, but not offended to the point of trying to kill Him.

Now, I've asked you before, who has the power to not only forgive sin, but to give eternal life?

The Jewish leaders were liars out of hearts filled with hatred. Jesus told them-your father is the devil. Jesus-NEVER blasphemed as they claim.

 

[kjw47]

I'm sorry, dude, but you're just theorizing here.

Now, I've asked you before, who has the power to not only forgive sin, but to give eternal life?

God gave Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth and the right to judge. WHY? Because Jesus lives 24/7-365 to do his God and Fathers will, so God trusts him 100% to give him those things.

 

[hadit]

The Jewish leaders were liars out of hearts filled with hatred. Jesus told them-your father is the devil. Jesus-NEVER blasphemed as they claim.

Uh, yes, He claimed things they thought of as blasphemous. They were not all liars filled with hatred, some came to talk with Him and learn from Him, but they were all Jews very familiar with Scripture, and they all knew immediately and absolutely what Jesus was claiming, even if you deny the plain truth. Even if you and your band of merry men try unsuccessfully to deny what the Jewish Scriptures say, they knew, and tried to kill Him.

 

[hadit]

God gave Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth and the right to judge. WHY? Because Jesus lives 24/7-365 to do his God and Fathers will, so God trusts him 100% to give him those things.

To judge? Is that what I said? No, I said who has the power to forgive sin and grant eternal life? Who, outside of God Himself, has that power?

 

[d0gbreath]

Too deep. That said, I pray to Jesus, like He's God.

 

[kjw47]

Uh, yes, He claimed things they thought of as blasphemous. They were not all liars filled with hatred, some came to talk with Him and learn from Him, but they were all Jews very familiar with Scripture, and they all knew immediately and absolutely what Jesus was claiming, even if you deny the plain truth. Even if you and your band of merry men try unsuccessfully to deny what the Jewish Scriptures say, they knew, and tried to kill Him.

Jesus told them-Your Father is the devil--yet you believe their words. Then believe these words-Matt 12:24--I have read many apostate JW materials, i found lies out of hearts filled with hatred in all of them. Apostates words cannot be trusted-EVER.

 

[hadit]

Jesus told them-Your Father is the devil--yet you believe their words. Then believe these words-Matt 12:24--I have read many apostate JW materials, i found lies out of hearts filled with hatred in all of them. Apostates words cannot be trusted-EVER.

John 10:

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

There it is in a nutshell. They wanted to kill Him because He plainly claimed to be God. The only way you can avoid that is to insist that you, a 21st century westerner, know more about the Jewish Scriptures than 1st century Jews, who had been raised their entire lives hearing, reading and reciting them. This is what you are reduced to, is that really where you want to be?

 

[kjw47]

John 10:

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

There it is in a nutshell. They wanted to kill Him because He plainly claimed to be God. The only way you can avoid that is to insist that you, a 21st century westerner, know more about the Jewish Scriptures than 1st century Jews, who had been raised their entire lives hearing, reading and reciting them. This is what you are reduced to, is that really where you want to be?

Jehovah and Jesus are one = in purpose. Not in being. Jesus prayed to Jehovah his Father who was in heaven proving they are not one in being.
The true followers become one with Jehovah and Jesus as well=How? By doing exactly as Jesus did=Living now in this satan ruled system doing Jesus' Fathers will over self( Matt 7:21)--just as Jesus did. That is how they are one-living to do the Fathers will.

 

[hadit]

Jehovah and Jesus are one = in purpose. Not in being. Jesus prayed to Jehovah his Father who was in heaven proving they are not one in being.
The true followers become one with Jehovah and Jesus as well=How? By doing exactly as Jesus did=Living now in this satan ruled system doing Jesus' Fathers will over self( Matt 7:21)--just as Jesus did. That is how they are one-living to do the Fathers will.

That is not blasphemous to 1st century Jews. It IS blasphemous, however, for a person to claim they are God, and they explicitly state that is why they wanted to kill Him. Again, you're in the position of claiming to understand Jewish Scripture better than 1st century Jews who lived their entire lives immersed in it. The Jews knew EXACTLY what Jesus was saying, and wanted to kill Him for it.

 

[kjw47]

That is not blasphemous to 1st century Jews. It IS blasphemous, however, for a person to claim they are God, and they explicitly state that is why they wanted to kill Him. Again, you're in the position of claiming to understand Jewish Scripture better than 1st century Jews who lived their entire lives immersed in it. The Jews knew EXACTLY what Jesus was saying, and wanted to kill Him for it.

Hearts filled with hate-twist truth to their false reasonings-100% proof=Matt 12:24--where those same religious leaders condemn Jesus as getting his power to expel demons from the leader of the demons= satan=false reasoning darkness out of hate filled hearts. As in every thing they said about Jesus. Not once did they say a truth about him.

 

[hadit]

Hearts filled with hate-twist truth to their false reasonings-100% proof=Matt 12:24--where those same religious leaders condemn Jesus as getting his power to expel demons from the leader of the demons= satan=false reasoning darkness out of hate filled hearts. As in every thing they said about Jesus. Not once did they say a truth about him.

You cannot deny that they absolutely believed Jesus was claiming to be God. You simply cannot deny that, because they stated it to be so.

Tell a 1st century Jew that you and the Father are one? Blasphemy.
Tell a 1st century Jew that before Abraham was, I am? Blasphemy.
Tell a 1st century Jew that you can forgive sin and grant eternal life? Blasphemy.

Why won't you address your claim that you know more about their Scriptures than they did?

 

[kjw47]

You cannot deny that they absolutely believed Jesus was claiming to be God. You simply cannot deny that, because they stated it to be so.

Tell a 1st century Jew that you and the Father are one? Blasphemy.
Tell a 1st century Jew that before Abraham was, I am? Blasphemy.
Tell a 1st century Jew that you can forgive sin and grant eternal life? Blasphemy.

Why won't you address your claim that you know more about their Scriptures than they did?

They wanted Jesus dead and would say anything. The same when Stephen went in front of the sanhedrin. His defense against the charges were perfect, yet they condemned him to death anyways. Hate filled hearts enough to kill, NEVER say a truth.

 

[hadit]

They wanted Jesus dead and would say anything. The same when Stephen went in front of the sanhedrin. His defense against the charges were perfect, yet they condemned him to death anyways. Hate filled hearts enough to kill, NEVER say a truth.

You're a conclusion seeking validation and are being forced to invent ever larger and more complex scenarios to justify your stance. Have you ever wondered WHY they were so angry at Jesus? They told you themselves, they were angry because He claimed to be God and that offended them deeply. And again, you insist you know the Hebrew Scriptures better than 1st century Jews.

Read your translation of that event and tell me, did Jesus EVER DENY THAT HE WAS CLAIMING TO BE GOD? Think before you give your kneejerk response and consider:

1. Jesus is representing God.
2. Jesus is Messiah.
3. Jesus will say and do absolutely nothing to smear God or dishonor Him.
4. Jesus loves and reveres the Father and is in complete accordance with Him.

Given all of this, do you for a MOMENT believe that Jesus would stay silent if they were falsely accusing Him of claiming to be God, that He would allow that accusation to stand, to allow ANYONE to think He was claiming to be God when He knew He wasn't? Remember, when they accused Him of being in league with the Devil, He spoke up and refuted it. Nowhere does He ever refute their accusations that He was claiming to be God.

Are you starting to understand just how far you have to go and how much you have to invent to maintain your belief?

 

[kjw47]

You're a conclusion seeking validation and are being forced to invent ever larger and more complex scenarios to justify your stance. Have you ever wondered WHY they were so angry at Jesus? They told you themselves, they were angry because He claimed to be God and that offended them deeply. And again, you insist you know the Hebrew Scriptures better than 1st century Jews.

Read your translation of that event and tell me, did Jesus EVER DENY THAT HE WAS CLAIMING TO BE GOD? Think before you give your kneejerk response and consider:

1. Jesus is representing God.
2. Jesus is Messiah.
3. Jesus will say and do absolutely nothing to smear God or dishonor Him.
4. Jesus loves and reveres the Father and is in complete accordance with Him.

Given all of this, do you for a MOMENT believe that Jesus would stay silent if they were falsely accusing Him of claiming to be God, that He would allow that accusation to stand, to allow ANYONE to think He was claiming to be God when He knew He wasn't? Remember, when they accused Him of being in league with the Devil, He spoke up and refuted it. Nowhere does He ever refute their accusations that He was claiming to be God.

Are you starting to understand just how far you have to go and how much you have to invent to maintain your belief?

Yes he would remain silent-He had to die and pay the wages of sin he did not owe=the ransom sacrifice=his Fathers will.

 

[hadit]

Yes he would remain silent-He had to die and pay the wages of sin he did not owe=the ransom sacrifice=his Fathers will.

He would not allow someone to accuse Him of falsely claiming to be God. Not that he refuted their accusations that He was in league with Satan.

 

[kjw47]

He would not allow someone to accuse Him of falsely claiming to be God. Not that he refuted their accusations that He was in league with Satan.

The bible shows your error.

 

[hadit]

The bible shows your error.

Are you claiming that Jesus allowed them to say He was blaspheming God by claiming to be Him? You are in essence now saying that Jesus was a mad man who falsely claimed to be God, something His contemporaries clearly understood He was saying. They stated it.

 

[kjw47]

Are you claiming that Jesus allowed them to say He was blaspheming God by claiming to be Him? You are in essence now saying that Jesus was a mad man who falsely claimed to be God, something His contemporaries clearly understood He was saying. They stated it.

Jesus NEVER claimed to be God. They lied, everything they said about him was lies out of hate filled hearts who wanted him dead.

 

[hadit]

Jesus NEVER claimed to be God. They lied, everything they said about him was lies out of hate filled hearts who wanted him dead.

Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”
62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”

Daniel 7:

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

This is Daniel's vision of when Christ returned to heaven, triumphant, and received back the glory that was His from before the world began. Yes, I know you'll insist that the word should be translated as "served", but I'll give you this homework assignment. In what context is that Hebrew word used, to serve man or to serve God? Where in the Bible is ANYONE declared worthy and worshipped in heaven other than God? You have not dealt with that.

The bottom line remains, you can only insist that Jesus did not claim to be God by also insisting you know Jewish Scriptures better than 1st century Jews did. They CERTAINLY knew exactly what He was claiming.