Big Tax Increase coming soon.....we told ya so.

[Blues Man]

All those idiots who thought everything was free....now gonna see somebody always gotta pay for the free stuff.

Biden Plans First Major Federal Tax Hike Since 1993

President Joe Biden is planning the first major federal tax hike since 1993 to help pay for the long-term economic program designed as a follow-up to his pandemic-relief bill, according to people familiar with the matter.Unlike the $1.9 trillion COVID-19 stimulus act, the...

www.newsmax.com

The working class have been paying for the tax give aways to the rich for 40 years. Currently to the tune of $20 Trillion.

The same people who have been paying for the freebies in subsidies to fossil fuel, petro chemical, pharmaceutical, defense contractor, and insurance companies.

The same people that have been paying to bail out the banks, air lines, and Donald Trumps bankruptcies.

You're right. You're getting to see what' it's like to have to give up on those freebies.

That money belongs to the people. The people that actually work for a living in this country, which is the only reason those worthless fucks exist, and we want our money back.

And we're going to get it.

bullshit--the rich pay MORE than their fair share

So why are they the only ones to get much richer with each tax cut?

Because they pay most of the taxes.
How the fuck is a person who pays ZERO taxes suppose to pay less taxes???

They should pay most of the taxes. They get the vast majority of the benefits of our taxes.

They pay the vast majority of taxes - so DUH! they get most of the benefits.
You understand Math Matters right?
If you want to complain about wealth concentration, companies getting too big etc. - I am there also.
But math is math.

Got it. Some are just more equal than others, right?

Exactly. You think people who already pay no income tax should get more of a tax break. Yuo realize that doesn't make sense right?

I believe those at the top have too many tax breaks.
Those at the extreme lower end of the wealth gap can't afford the things that they need, much less pay to help others. If those at the top of the gap were paying their fair share, the gap wouldn't be expanding so quickly. A level playing field isn't too much to ask for.

You are confusing wealth with tax rates.
And it isn't the "extreme lower end".... it is the bottom 45%.
Do you knot know that 44% of the American population has a NEGATIVE tax rate?? Which means they get more back than they pay in.
So just how the heck is a tax break going to affect them?
Like I said - OF COURSE tax breaks give most of the breaks to the upper 56%... because only they pay any!!


Lord almighty

Everybody pays taxes. Just look at your next receipt for ---- anything. You pay taxes.

How much is enough taxes? At what point is the limit?

Makes no more sense than how high is up. For god's sake, get some new talking points. Those are worn out.

Sounds like you are advocating “no limit” for paying taxes when it comes to American’s earned wages. I encourage you to review America’s foundation. Americans can and should pay for the government that supports them; but there are limits. $10M for gender studies in Pakistan yields little or no benefit to any American.

We can discuss what our taxes are spent on if you like. I oppose the billions given to large corporations every year in grants and set asides. However, you mentioned limits. Our top tax rates were above 70% and even as high as above 90% during the biggest financial expansion our country ever saw, and it didn't seem to hurt us a bit.

you forget that after WWII the US was the only industrial power that had any real infrastructure left.

We had no global competition.

It's a different world now, literally.

Money is still money.

not really.

You think a 90% tax bracket would have no effect on our ability to be competitive in the global market? Think again.

 

[BlindBoo]

We still need a balanced budget amendment and term limits for Congresscritters amendment.

It's the only way to be sure!

Wrong! Consider the consequences when natural disasters (pandemics, hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires, earthquakes,etc.) or disasters created by the failure to fix bridges, tunnels, dams, the electric power fail. Once upon a time - before trump - I believed POTUS should have the power of the line-item veto. Hopefully we will never again make a mistake to elect another vindictive and self serving person to have the power of the presidency.

I have. Of course we need emergency spending bills for unforeseen events which could be used as the basis for how to pay for it.

 

[JoeB131]

you don't know much about the debt.

The fact is most of the interest paid on the debt is paid to Americans.

And 23% of the debt isn't really debt at all because it's money the government owes itself

That's the most retarded thing I've heard in my life.

Haven't you gotten the memo from Hate Radio- Debt is bad again.

 

[K9Buck]

The same people that have been paying to bail out the banks, air lines, and Donald Trumps bankruptcies.

You think Nancy and Chuck have been working on behalf of Republicans? That's cute.

 

[Papageorgio]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

The problem is we aren't going to use the increase to pay down debt. We will just keep spending more and more.

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

You realize that to "pay for things"... the IRS would have to collect 100% of every paycheck earned in America for over a year to pay what the government is spending.
No - I didn't think you did

Whatever. You want to put on future generations your irresponsible spending?

Whatever = I don't have an answer for what you say

I did answer. Why shouldn't you be responsible for your irresponsible spending as opposed to future generations?

Spending has to be cut, not taxes raised.
It is simple math. As has been repeated over and over and over - if you "taxed the rich" 100% of their earnings - it wouldn't put a dent in the Debt spending.
It is not about taxes.... it is about spending!!

Sorry, not interested. Pay for your debt.

Who is "your"?

It's your debt whether you want to accept it or not.

Yuo are saying "your" as in a third person, as if you are exempt.
It is "our" debt.

I'm willing to pay. You are the one unwilling to pay "your" debt. Not me.

Really? Are you? Cause all I have heard you post about is raising other people's taxes....how much more taxes are you willing to pay? and nobody is stopping you from paying more....the Fed will keep it

I am support the tax increases, no?

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

Leeching is when you pay little or nothing and expect other people to pay your share and more...... also known as a Democrat.

Why Does Billionaire Warren Buffett Pay a Lower Tax Rate Than His Secretary? | The Motley Fool

I’ve read that article many times. All the more reason why his secretary should keep more of her paycheck. Watch and see what happens.

a

The argument is that income should all be taxed as income. Earlier it was noted that everyone should be taxed the same. O.K.

The only income that's taxed differently are long term investments, that are realized. The reason for that, is that money was first taxed, and we want to encourage people to invest for their future....and that is taxed at the same rate for all levels

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

you don't know much about how borrowed money is taxed do you?

If you borrow 500K you have to pay it back. BUT the loan principal you pay back is not a tax deduction the interest is the only thing that gets treated as a write off. So the 500K you use to pay back the principal comes from the after tax profit of the business.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

The 500K isn't taxed because it's not income it's money you pay to borrow.

And the 700K will be taxed as soon as he sells the assets.

So the profit will be taxed. So you're wrong that none of the money is taxed.

I didn't argue that. I argued ONLY the $200,000 is taxed.

it is taxed as soon as he sells his assets and realizes the gains

So? The $200,000 is taxed, not the $700,000 which means nothing was taxed twice.

OK a little clarification is needed here.

Did he make 700K or 200K

The initial 500K isn't part of what he made it was the purchase price of the stock.

So if he made 700K then his stock has to be worth 1.2 million. The 500K isn't taxed because it is not income but a loan and has to be paid back to the bank with interest. ((banks don't usually make loans for stock market speculation but we'll ignore that for now)

So if you want the 500K loan principal to be taxed then all loan principals for all loans have to be taxed. Do you really want to pay tax on your mortgage principal?

I clearly stated the scenario early on.

The hypo you put further before, the investor that took the $500K loan, invested it, and made $200K, would pay cap gains on the $200K, then still owe the lender $500K....not a great situation to be in

At near zero interest rates that's a pretty darn good place to be.

um no not at all...you owe money, you are in debt...that's not a good place to be at all, even with a low interest rate In your hypo the individual lost money...that's a horrible place to be

Please don't speak to me on finance. You fully understand that the $200,000 is profit, not what he is left with.

it's not profit, when he still owes $300K....obviously you know very little about finance if you think it is....he's actually in the hole $300K, well more then that, because he had to pay taxes on that $200K, so he has even less to pay off the loan

This has to be a liberal....now they are going to ask for a bailout

You are only digging your hole further.

I am not, but the person in your hypo surely is, especially if they are listening to your advice.

I offered no advice.

You suggested taking a $500K loan, to invest, but take it out at $200K and call it profit! Come on man!

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

Exactly what I said.

 

[pknopp]

that's irrelevant

it’s highly relevant when you’re talking long term investment.

Here you’re arguing capital gains shouldn’t be taxed because that would harm long term investment and that’s nonsense given 402ks are long term investments.

Yes they are taxed differently but they ACT as a long term investment. As long as you have 401ks acting as long term investments in the market then there’s no reason not to tax capital gains

I never said capital gains shouldn't be taxed.

in fact no one is saying that. What they are saying is that they shouldn't be taxed as regular income.

And they should be. The guy busting his butt digging ditches shouldn't have to pay a higher rate than some guy sitting at home at his computer.

I disagree.

The guy diffing ditches has an defective income tax rate that is lower than the capital gains rate

Not if they make the same amount of money. We were initially discussing everyone paying the same rate. I agreed but I made sure to point out that it needed to apply to everyone.

Seems many who believe it should be the same for everyone doesn't really believe that.

it depends.

Like most things in life it's not all cut an dried

With CG taxes you pay a flat 15%. Would you want the guy making 60K a year to pay a flat 15% on his income?

He might actually be paying more than he does now.

or are you a fan of the so called progressive tax brackets?

the guy making 60K pays 6187.50 in federal income tax.

The guy who pays capital gains on 60K pays 7117.50 in federal income taxes.

$60000 60,000.00 Tax Calculator 2024/25 | 2024 Tax Refund Calculator

$60000 60,000.00 Tax Calculator 2024/25: 2024 tax refund calculator with 60,000.00 tax, medicare and social security tax allowances

www.taxformcalculator.com

so in your example the so called rich guy living off his investments actually pays more federal income tax.

We are discussing basic ideas here, not teaching an economics class.

If we were to tax everything on a flat basis, I would accept that. I don't really have to worry about whether I support that or not though as it's not going to happen. Wall Street would never allow it.

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

The problem is we aren't going to use the increase to pay down debt. We will just keep spending more and more.

Probably not. Maybe at some point people will tire of higher and higher taxes and actually get serious about the debt.

 

[harmonica]

All those idiots who thought everything was free....now gonna see somebody always gotta pay for the free stuff.

Biden Plans First Major Federal Tax Hike Since 1993

President Joe Biden is planning the first major federal tax hike since 1993 to help pay for the long-term economic program designed as a follow-up to his pandemic-relief bill, according to people familiar with the matter.Unlike the $1.9 trillion COVID-19 stimulus act, the...

www.newsmax.com

The working class have been paying for the tax give aways to the rich for 40 years. Currently to the tune of $20 Trillion.

The same people who have been paying for the freebies in subsidies to fossil fuel, petro chemical, pharmaceutical, defense contractor, and insurance companies.

The same people that have been paying to bail out the banks, air lines, and Donald Trumps bankruptcies.

You're right. You're getting to see what' it's like to have to give up on those freebies.

That money belongs to the people. The people that actually work for a living in this country, which is the only reason those worthless fucks exist, and we want our money back.

And we're going to get it.

bullshit--the rich pay MORE than their fair share

Nope. Jess Bezos made 5.6 billion in 2017 and paid zero dollars in federal income taxes. Is that paying their fair share? I'd like to see the average not pay any federal income taxes on their earnings for a year. The super wealthy in this country are the ones who benefit the most from tax cuts. The tax cuts are made for them, in fact. They are the ones who get major financial bailouts when they fuck up. Paying more than their fair share? Uh.....no. The average american taxpayer is the one you are talking about. We subsidize tax cuts and bailouts for the wealthy over and over. Learn your history and current events.

nope--they do pay more

Post links from legit sources to prove this claim.

already did --many times

Opinion | Wealthy Americans Already Pay Their Share

Arguments to the contrary spurn or wildly distort statistics and cherry-pick anecdotal examples.

www.wsj.com

.

 

[jbander]

All those idiots who thought everything was free....now gonna see somebody always gotta pay for the free stuff.

Biden Plans First Major Federal Tax Hike Since 1993

President Joe Biden is planning the first major federal tax hike since 1993 to help pay for the long-term economic program designed as a follow-up to his pandemic-relief bill, according to people familiar with the matter.Unlike the $1.9 trillion COVID-19 stimulus act, the...

www.newsmax.com

It will be just the fat boys who make a living from someone else's work, while they call their workers trash and say that there should be no minimum wages and would eat our children with out regulations. I just love to see you people cry over this. All you federal debt supporters. Biden won't even come close to the tax breaks that need to be gotten rid of. For the last 45 years these fat guys have gotten all the new wealth of this country , I say it should be turned around completely for the next 45 years and they will get none of the new wealth of this country , it will all go to everyone else , fair deal right?????

 

[Blues Man]

you don't know much about the debt.

The fact is most of the interest paid on the debt is paid to Americans.

And 23% of the debt isn't really debt at all because it's money the government owes itself

That's the most retarded thing I've heard in my life.

Haven't you gotten the memo from Hate Radio- Debt is bad again.

Who Owns the US National Debt?

The majority of the U.S. national debt is owned by Social Security, the Federal Reserve, and foreign investors. Learn how that impacts the economy and you.

www.thebalance.com

The government can't owe money to itself. It's like you saying your electric bill fund owes your car payment fund money when it all comes out of your income anyway.

And I don't listen to talking head radio unless the actual Talking Heads are playing something.

We should let the public own the Social Security debt just like it can own any of the rest of the debt.

And I have always said the debt isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

But then again you only really care about the debt when there's a republican administration.

 

[struth]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

Leeching is when you pay little or nothing and expect other people to pay your share and more...... also known as a Democrat.

Why Does Billionaire Warren Buffett Pay a Lower Tax Rate Than His Secretary? | The Motley Fool

I’ve read that article many times. All the more reason why his secretary should keep more of her paycheck. Watch and see what happens.

a

The argument is that income should all be taxed as income. Earlier it was noted that everyone should be taxed the same. O.K.

The only income that's taxed differently are long term investments, that are realized. The reason for that, is that money was first taxed, and we want to encourage people to invest for their future....and that is taxed at the same rate for all levels

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

you don't know much about how borrowed money is taxed do you?

If you borrow 500K you have to pay it back. BUT the loan principal you pay back is not a tax deduction the interest is the only thing that gets treated as a write off. So the 500K you use to pay back the principal comes from the after tax profit of the business.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

The 500K isn't taxed because it's not income it's money you pay to borrow.

And the 700K will be taxed as soon as he sells the assets.

So the profit will be taxed. So you're wrong that none of the money is taxed.

I didn't argue that. I argued ONLY the $200,000 is taxed.

it is taxed as soon as he sells his assets and realizes the gains

So? The $200,000 is taxed, not the $700,000 which means nothing was taxed twice.

OK a little clarification is needed here.

Did he make 700K or 200K

The initial 500K isn't part of what he made it was the purchase price of the stock.

So if he made 700K then his stock has to be worth 1.2 million. The 500K isn't taxed because it is not income but a loan and has to be paid back to the bank with interest. ((banks don't usually make loans for stock market speculation but we'll ignore that for now)

So if you want the 500K loan principal to be taxed then all loan principals for all loans have to be taxed. Do you really want to pay tax on your mortgage principal?

I clearly stated the scenario early on.

The hypo you put further before, the investor that took the $500K loan, invested it, and made $200K, would pay cap gains on the $200K, then still owe the lender $500K....not a great situation to be in

At near zero interest rates that's a pretty darn good place to be.

um no not at all...you owe money, you are in debt...that's not a good place to be at all, even with a low interest rate In your hypo the individual lost money...that's a horrible place to be

Please don't speak to me on finance. You fully understand that the $200,000 is profit, not what he is left with.

it's not profit, when he still owes $300K....obviously you know very little about finance if you think it is....he's actually in the hole $300K, well more then that, because he had to pay taxes on that $200K, so he has even less to pay off the loan

This has to be a liberal....now they are going to ask for a bailout

You are only digging your hole further.

I am not, but the person in your hypo surely is, especially if they are listening to your advice.

I offered no advice.

You suggested taking a $500K loan, to invest, but take it out at $200K and call it profit! Come on man!

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

Exactly what I said.

In your hypo the $200K would be taxed, at what rate would depend on how long the investment was.....long v short term. Then in your hypo the person then still has to pay back the loan, which he took for $500K.....so whatever is left after being taxed on that $200K would go to paying the creditor, and he'd still be in teh hole $300K plus

 

[struth]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

You realize that to "pay for things"... the IRS would have to collect 100% of every paycheck earned in America for over a year to pay what the government is spending.
No - I didn't think you did

Whatever. You want to put on future generations your irresponsible spending?

Whatever = I don't have an answer for what you say

I did answer. Why shouldn't you be responsible for your irresponsible spending as opposed to future generations?

Spending has to be cut, not taxes raised.
It is simple math. As has been repeated over and over and over - if you "taxed the rich" 100% of their earnings - it wouldn't put a dent in the Debt spending.
It is not about taxes.... it is about spending!!

Sorry, not interested. Pay for your debt.

Who is "your"?

It's your debt whether you want to accept it or not.

Yuo are saying "your" as in a third person, as if you are exempt.
It is "our" debt.

I'm willing to pay. You are the one unwilling to pay "your" debt. Not me.

Really? Are you? Cause all I have heard you post about is raising other people's taxes....how much more taxes are you willing to pay? and nobody is stopping you from paying more....the Fed will keep it

I am support the tax increases, no?

So how much more do you think you should be paying? what rate?

and why aren't you already paying more? There is nothing stopping you from giving the Feds more money

Answer the questions please

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

Leeching is when you pay little or nothing and expect other people to pay your share and more...... also known as a Democrat.

Why Does Billionaire Warren Buffett Pay a Lower Tax Rate Than His Secretary? | The Motley Fool

I’ve read that article many times. All the more reason why his secretary should keep more of her paycheck. Watch and see what happens.

a

The argument is that income should all be taxed as income. Earlier it was noted that everyone should be taxed the same. O.K.

The only income that's taxed differently are long term investments, that are realized. The reason for that, is that money was first taxed, and we want to encourage people to invest for their future....and that is taxed at the same rate for all levels

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

you don't know much about how borrowed money is taxed do you?

If you borrow 500K you have to pay it back. BUT the loan principal you pay back is not a tax deduction the interest is the only thing that gets treated as a write off. So the 500K you use to pay back the principal comes from the after tax profit of the business.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

The 500K isn't taxed because it's not income it's money you pay to borrow.

And the 700K will be taxed as soon as he sells the assets.

So the profit will be taxed. So you're wrong that none of the money is taxed.

I didn't argue that. I argued ONLY the $200,000 is taxed.

it is taxed as soon as he sells his assets and realizes the gains

So? The $200,000 is taxed, not the $700,000 which means nothing was taxed twice.

OK a little clarification is needed here.

Did he make 700K or 200K

The initial 500K isn't part of what he made it was the purchase price of the stock.

So if he made 700K then his stock has to be worth 1.2 million. The 500K isn't taxed because it is not income but a loan and has to be paid back to the bank with interest. ((banks don't usually make loans for stock market speculation but we'll ignore that for now)

So if you want the 500K loan principal to be taxed then all loan principals for all loans have to be taxed. Do you really want to pay tax on your mortgage principal?

I clearly stated the scenario early on.

The hypo you put further before, the investor that took the $500K loan, invested it, and made $200K, would pay cap gains on the $200K, then still owe the lender $500K....not a great situation to be in

At near zero interest rates that's a pretty darn good place to be.

um no not at all...you owe money, you are in debt...that's not a good place to be at all, even with a low interest rate In your hypo the individual lost money...that's a horrible place to be

Please don't speak to me on finance. You fully understand that the $200,000 is profit, not what he is left with.

it's not profit, when he still owes $300K....obviously you know very little about finance if you think it is....he's actually in the hole $300K, well more then that, because he had to pay taxes on that $200K, so he has even less to pay off the loan

This has to be a liberal....now they are going to ask for a bailout

You are only digging your hole further.

I am not, but the person in your hypo surely is, especially if they are listening to your advice.

I offered no advice.

You suggested taking a $500K loan, to invest, but take it out at $200K and call it profit! Come on man!

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

Exactly what I said.

In your hypo the $200K would be taxed, at what rate would depend on how long the investment was.....long v short term. Then in your hypo the person then still has to pay back the loan, which he took for $500K.....so whatever is left after being taxed on that $200K would go to paying the creditor, and he'd still be in teh hole $300K plus

You really are incapable of reading. Or adding,.......I can't tell which.

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

You realize that to "pay for things"... the IRS would have to collect 100% of every paycheck earned in America for over a year to pay what the government is spending.
No - I didn't think you did

Whatever. You want to put on future generations your irresponsible spending?

Whatever = I don't have an answer for what you say

I did answer. Why shouldn't you be responsible for your irresponsible spending as opposed to future generations?

Spending has to be cut, not taxes raised.
It is simple math. As has been repeated over and over and over - if you "taxed the rich" 100% of their earnings - it wouldn't put a dent in the Debt spending.
It is not about taxes.... it is about spending!!

Sorry, not interested. Pay for your debt.

Who is "your"?

It's your debt whether you want to accept it or not.

Yuo are saying "your" as in a third person, as if you are exempt.
It is "our" debt.

I'm willing to pay. You are the one unwilling to pay "your" debt. Not me.

Really? Are you? Cause all I have heard you post about is raising other people's taxes....how much more taxes are you willing to pay? and nobody is stopping you from paying more....the Fed will keep it

I am support the tax increases, no?

So how much more do you think you should be paying? what rate?

and why aren't you already paying more? There is nothing stopping you from giving the Feds more money

Answer the questions please

I can not make any difference alone. Your question is juvenile. Why do you think it's fair to leave our debt to future generations?

 

[struth]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

Leeching is when you pay little or nothing and expect other people to pay your share and more...... also known as a Democrat.

Why Does Billionaire Warren Buffett Pay a Lower Tax Rate Than His Secretary? | The Motley Fool

I’ve read that article many times. All the more reason why his secretary should keep more of her paycheck. Watch and see what happens.

a

The argument is that income should all be taxed as income. Earlier it was noted that everyone should be taxed the same. O.K.

The only income that's taxed differently are long term investments, that are realized. The reason for that, is that money was first taxed, and we want to encourage people to invest for their future....and that is taxed at the same rate for all levels

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

you don't know much about how borrowed money is taxed do you?

If you borrow 500K you have to pay it back. BUT the loan principal you pay back is not a tax deduction the interest is the only thing that gets treated as a write off. So the 500K you use to pay back the principal comes from the after tax profit of the business.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

The 500K isn't taxed because it's not income it's money you pay to borrow.

And the 700K will be taxed as soon as he sells the assets.

So the profit will be taxed. So you're wrong that none of the money is taxed.

I didn't argue that. I argued ONLY the $200,000 is taxed.

it is taxed as soon as he sells his assets and realizes the gains

So? The $200,000 is taxed, not the $700,000 which means nothing was taxed twice.

OK a little clarification is needed here.

Did he make 700K or 200K

The initial 500K isn't part of what he made it was the purchase price of the stock.

So if he made 700K then his stock has to be worth 1.2 million. The 500K isn't taxed because it is not income but a loan and has to be paid back to the bank with interest. ((banks don't usually make loans for stock market speculation but we'll ignore that for now)

So if you want the 500K loan principal to be taxed then all loan principals for all loans have to be taxed. Do you really want to pay tax on your mortgage principal?

I clearly stated the scenario early on.

The hypo you put further before, the investor that took the $500K loan, invested it, and made $200K, would pay cap gains on the $200K, then still owe the lender $500K....not a great situation to be in

At near zero interest rates that's a pretty darn good place to be.

um no not at all...you owe money, you are in debt...that's not a good place to be at all, even with a low interest rate In your hypo the individual lost money...that's a horrible place to be

Please don't speak to me on finance. You fully understand that the $200,000 is profit, not what he is left with.

it's not profit, when he still owes $300K....obviously you know very little about finance if you think it is....he's actually in the hole $300K, well more then that, because he had to pay taxes on that $200K, so he has even less to pay off the loan

This has to be a liberal....now they are going to ask for a bailout

You are only digging your hole further.

I am not, but the person in your hypo surely is, especially if they are listening to your advice.

I offered no advice.

You suggested taking a $500K loan, to invest, but take it out at $200K and call it profit! Come on man!

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

Exactly what I said.

In your hypo the $200K would be taxed, at what rate would depend on how long the investment was.....long v short term. Then in your hypo the person then still has to pay back the loan, which he took for $500K.....so whatever is left after being taxed on that $200K would go to paying the creditor, and he'd still be in teh hole $300K plus

You really are incapable of reading. Or adding,.......I can't tell which.

You said the person took a loan for $500K and invested it, and got $200K.....have you redefined that?

 

[struth]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

You realize that to "pay for things"... the IRS would have to collect 100% of every paycheck earned in America for over a year to pay what the government is spending.
No - I didn't think you did

Whatever. You want to put on future generations your irresponsible spending?

Whatever = I don't have an answer for what you say

I did answer. Why shouldn't you be responsible for your irresponsible spending as opposed to future generations?

Spending has to be cut, not taxes raised.
It is simple math. As has been repeated over and over and over - if you "taxed the rich" 100% of their earnings - it wouldn't put a dent in the Debt spending.
It is not about taxes.... it is about spending!!

Sorry, not interested. Pay for your debt.

Who is "your"?

It's your debt whether you want to accept it or not.

Yuo are saying "your" as in a third person, as if you are exempt.
It is "our" debt.

I'm willing to pay. You are the one unwilling to pay "your" debt. Not me.

Really? Are you? Cause all I have heard you post about is raising other people's taxes....how much more taxes are you willing to pay? and nobody is stopping you from paying more....the Fed will keep it

I am support the tax increases, no?

So how much more do you think you should be paying? what rate?

and why aren't you already paying more? There is nothing stopping you from giving the Feds more money

Answer the questions please

I can not make any difference alone. Your question is juvenile. Why do you think it's fair to leave our debt to future generations?

So, can you please answer the question what rate do you want to pay?

Of course you can't do it alone, but you can certainly lead by example.....but you apparently don't want to...gotcha...I am still curious what rate do you wish to pay?

Answer the question, stop deflecting

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

Leeching is when you pay little or nothing and expect other people to pay your share and more...... also known as a Democrat.

Why Does Billionaire Warren Buffett Pay a Lower Tax Rate Than His Secretary? | The Motley Fool

I’ve read that article many times. All the more reason why his secretary should keep more of her paycheck. Watch and see what happens.

a

The argument is that income should all be taxed as income. Earlier it was noted that everyone should be taxed the same. O.K.

The only income that's taxed differently are long term investments, that are realized. The reason for that, is that money was first taxed, and we want to encourage people to invest for their future....and that is taxed at the same rate for all levels

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it and makes $700,000. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

you don't know much about how borrowed money is taxed do you?

If you borrow 500K you have to pay it back. BUT the loan principal you pay back is not a tax deduction the interest is the only thing that gets treated as a write off. So the 500K you use to pay back the principal comes from the after tax profit of the business.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

The 500K isn't taxed because it's not income it's money you pay to borrow.

And the 700K will be taxed as soon as he sells the assets.

So the profit will be taxed. So you're wrong that none of the money is taxed.

I didn't argue that. I argued ONLY the $200,000 is taxed.

it is taxed as soon as he sells his assets and realizes the gains

So? The $200,000 is taxed, not the $700,000 which means nothing was taxed twice.

OK a little clarification is needed here.

Did he make 700K or 200K

The initial 500K isn't part of what he made it was the purchase price of the stock.

So if he made 700K then his stock has to be worth 1.2 million. The 500K isn't taxed because it is not income but a loan and has to be paid back to the bank with interest. ((banks don't usually make loans for stock market speculation but we'll ignore that for now)

So if you want the 500K loan principal to be taxed then all loan principals for all loans have to be taxed. Do you really want to pay tax on your mortgage principal?

I clearly stated the scenario early on.

The hypo you put further before, the investor that took the $500K loan, invested it, and made $200K, would pay cap gains on the $200K, then still owe the lender $500K....not a great situation to be in

At near zero interest rates that's a pretty darn good place to be.

um no not at all...you owe money, you are in debt...that's not a good place to be at all, even with a low interest rate In your hypo the individual lost money...that's a horrible place to be

Please don't speak to me on finance. You fully understand that the $200,000 is profit, not what he is left with.

it's not profit, when he still owes $300K....obviously you know very little about finance if you think it is....he's actually in the hole $300K, well more then that, because he had to pay taxes on that $200K, so he has even less to pay off the loan

This has to be a liberal....now they are going to ask for a bailout

You are only digging your hole further.

I am not, but the person in your hypo surely is, especially if they are listening to your advice.

I offered no advice.

You suggested taking a $500K loan, to invest, but take it out at $200K and call it profit! Come on man!

The money is NOT taxed. The 'profit" has NEVER been taxed. This is one of the most accepted lies of the gullible.

Even then it's hardly always true. Guy borrows $500,000, invests it
. None of that had been taxed. He pays a lower rate on that $200,000 than the poor guy busting his butt making $60,000.

That needs to end.

Exactly what I said.

In your hypo the $200K would be taxed, at what rate would depend on how long the investment was.....long v short term. Then in your hypo the person then still has to pay back the loan, which he took for $500K.....so whatever is left after being taxed on that $200K would go to paying the creditor, and he'd still be in teh hole $300K plus

You really are incapable of reading. Or adding,.......I can't tell which.

You said the person took a loan for $500K and invested it, and got $200K.....have you redefined that?

Do words mean something different to you?

and makes $700,000

 

[pknopp]

Great. It's about time we starting paying for things. You all that think everything should be free are going to have to stop your leeching.

You realize that to "pay for things"... the IRS would have to collect 100% of every paycheck earned in America for over a year to pay what the government is spending.
No - I didn't think you did

Whatever. You want to put on future generations your irresponsible spending?

Whatever = I don't have an answer for what you say

I did answer. Why shouldn't you be responsible for your irresponsible spending as opposed to future generations?

Spending has to be cut, not taxes raised.
It is simple math. As has been repeated over and over and over - if you "taxed the rich" 100% of their earnings - it wouldn't put a dent in the Debt spending.
It is not about taxes.... it is about spending!!

Sorry, not interested. Pay for your debt.

Who is "your"?

It's your debt whether you want to accept it or not.

Yuo are saying "your" as in a third person, as if you are exempt.
It is "our" debt.

I'm willing to pay. You are the one unwilling to pay "your" debt. Not me.

Really? Are you? Cause all I have heard you post about is raising other people's taxes....how much more taxes are you willing to pay? and nobody is stopping you from paying more....the Fed will keep it

I am support the tax increases, no?

So how much more do you think you should be paying? what rate?

and why aren't you already paying more? There is nothing stopping you from giving the Feds more money

Answer the questions please

I can not make any difference alone. Your question is juvenile. Why do you think it's fair to leave our debt to future generations?

So, can you please answer the question what rate do you want to pay?

Of course you can't do it alone, but you can certainly lead by example.....but you apparently don't want to...gotcha...I am still curious what rate do you wish to pay?

Answer the question, stop deflecting

I have NO idea what the proper rate is. Even if I did you would not understand it.