Book of Mormon a bunch of crap?

[Indeependent]

If you don't use the real Bible you are not real. Close the thread please.

What makes the bible real?

The one and only true book of God, our Lord and saviour. All others are copy-cat phony spin-offs used to enslave, pillage and rape. Like the koran.

the same can be said of the bible. Copy cat, anyways.
It isnt very original...

No, the same can't be said of the Bible. The scribes were meticulous when copying scrolls. The Jewish scribes were painstakingly accurate. If there was one mistake on the proof reading, the entire scroll was trashed.

I assume you are christian? If so, how do you know? Your NT is so trashed from misrepresentations, you dont know what the hell they were saying. People that speak Hebrew laugh at you guys....
I was referring to the stories in the bible that were copies from older religions. Garden of Eden, chapters in proverbs, angels and demons (good vs evil) etc

Where were they copied from?

 

[Avatar4321]

I have mormon friends. Good people. Sincere. Sincerely wrong. Supposedly, an angel delivered a new gospel. I read in the first chapter of Galatians that even if an angel brings a different gospel than the one Paul preached to let him be accursed. The scriptures say the devil can appear as an angel of light. So how do we know the truth? The Holy Spirit and the Word. They must agree. Mormonism doesn't agree with Scripture.

Revelation 14:6-7 promises an angel carrying the everlasting Gospel. The gospel Moroni brought was not another one. It was the long awaited restoration of the same Gospel Paul taught.

The Book of Mormon contains a promise that the Holy Spirit will show you that it's true. And the Holy Spirit does.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you don't use the real Bible you are not real. Close the thread please.

Who isn't using the real Bible? Which version do you consider real?

 

[Avatar4321]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

Right......no way they existed there.

Except as I already pointed out, there are twelve eye witnesses who gave their testimony in the beginning of the Book of Mormon

 

[Avatar4321]

If you don't use the real Bible you are not real. Close the thread please.

What makes the bible real?

The one and only true book of God, our Lord and saviour. All others are copy-cat phony spin-offs used to enslave, pillage and rape. Like the koran.

the same can be said of the bible. Copy cat, anyways.
It isnt very original...

I am no expert of course. Lol! I know mostly what I have learned. The others don't measure up.

The Bible is composed of 66 books by 40 different writers over 1500 years, yet it has one consistent storyline running all the way through, and it has just one ultimate author — God.

And the Book of Mormon has many different writers who lived on the other side of the planet with the same story line. It stands as a witness that Jesus is the Christ. It proves that God loves, that He remembers His covenants, and still acts in the world today

 

[Avatar4321]

"The Book of Mormon" was a great show. I laughed my ass off.

If you liked the show, read the Book. It's much better

 

[Avatar4321]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

Many saw them. If you read it you’d know that because before the book starts 12 witnesses give their testimony

Sure they did......

You have reason to ignore their testimony? Let's just take three

David Whitmer - testified he saw the plates and an angel. After a dispute with Joseph he left the church. He continued testifying that he saw them all his life. His non Mormon neighbors swore you wouldn't find a more honest man. He gave many interviews with local media about his experiences.

Oliver cowdery - same experience as David. He also was involved with other angelic visitations in the Church. He left the Church after a falling out with Joseph. He became an attorney and his non Mormon neighbors spoke highly of his integrity. He reaffirmed his testimony to the detriment of his career. He also lost political office because he wouldn't deny his testimony of the Book of Mormon. He later humbled himself and returned to the Church. He died shortly afterword testifying that the Book of Mormon was true with his dying breath

Martin Harris - saw the plates and the Angel. Also had a dispute with Joseph and when the saints went west he stayed in Ohio and left the Church. He also had a reputation for integrity and maintained his testimony of book of Mormon. He too returned to the Church.

That's just three. There are more. Take Hyrum and Joseph Smith the "con man" as so many falsely claim. They went to their death for testimony that they saw the plates

May I refer to a modern “last days” testimony? When Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum started for Carthage to face what they knew would be an imminent martyrdom, Hyrum read these words to comfort the heart of his brother:

“Thou hast been faithful; wherefore … thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

“And now I, Moroni, bid farewell … until we shall meet before the judgment-seat of Christ.”7

A few short verses from the 12th chapter of Ether in the Book of Mormon. Before closing the book, Hyrum turned down the corner of the page from which he had read, marking it as part of the everlasting testimony for which these two brothers were about to die. I hold in my hand that book, the very copy from which Hyrum read, the same corner of the page turned down, still visible. Later, when actually incarcerated in the jail, Joseph the Prophet turned to the guards who held him captive and bore a powerful testimony of the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon.8 Shortly thereafter pistol and ball would take the lives of these two testators.

As one of a thousand elements of my own testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon, I submit this as yet one more evidence of its truthfulness. In this their greatest—and last—hour of need, I ask you: would these men blaspheme before God by continuing to fix their lives, their honor, and their own search for eternal salvation on a book (and by implication a church and a ministry) they had fictitiously created out of whole cloth?

Never mind that their wives are about to be widows and their children fatherless. Never mind that their little band of followers will yet be “houseless, friendless and homeless” and that their children will leave footprints of blood across frozen rivers and an untamed prairie floor.9 Never mind that legions will die and other legions live declaring in the four quarters of this earth that they know the Book of Mormon and the Church which espouses it to be true. Disregard all of that, and tell me whether in this hour of death these two men would enter the presence of their Eternal Judge quoting from and finding solace in a book which, if not the very word of God, would brand them as imposters and charlatans until the end of time? They would not do that! They were willing to die rather than deny the divine origin and the eternal truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

For 179 years this book has been examined and attacked, denied and deconstructed, targeted and torn apart like perhaps no other book in modern religious history—perhaps like no other book in any religious history. And still it stands. Failed theories about its origins have been born and parroted and have died—from Ethan Smith to Solomon Spaulding to deranged paranoid to cunning genius. None of these frankly pathetic answers for this book has ever withstood examination because there is no other answer than the one Joseph gave as its young unlearned translator. In this I stand with my own great-grandfather, who said simply enough, “No wicked man could write such a book as this; and no good man would write it, unless it were true and he were commanded of God to do so.”10

I testify that one cannot come to full faith in this latter-day work—and thereby find the fullest measure of peace and comfort in these, our times—until he or she embraces the divinity of the Book of Mormon and the Lord Jesus Christ, of whom it testifies. If anyone is foolish enough or misled enough to reject 531 pages of a heretofore unknown text teeming with literary and Semitic complexity without honestly attempting to account for the origin of those pages—especially without accounting for their powerful witness of Jesus Christ and the profound spiritual impact that witness has had on what is now tens of millions of readers—if that is the case, then such a person, elect or otherwise, has been deceived; and if he or she leaves this Church, it must be done by crawling over or under or around the Book of Mormon to make that exit. In that sense the book is what Christ Himself was said to be: “a stone of stumbling, … a rock of offence,”11 a barrier in the path of one who wishes not to believe in this work. Witnesses, even witnesses who were for a time hostile to Joseph, testified to their death that they had seen an angel and had handled the plates. “They have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man,” they declared. “Wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true.” Safety for the soul

You might be able to dismiss it all with a wave of the hand. But I couldn't. That's why I read the Book of Mormon for myself and received my own witness from the Holy Spirit. I know the record it contains is true. Because of it I understand why Christ died for me. I know Him.

 

[Avatar4321]

Gads is TN sharing his ignorance again?

The devil seizes upon stupid people.

I see only honest questioning from TN. Better honest questioning then ignorant assumptions

 

[Care4all]

Very interesting article. I have never heard of this before.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...archaeology-mexico-and-ended-losing-his-faith
This is the main takeaway

In the summer of 1835, Joseph Smith had received a curious visitor in Kirtland, Ohio, then the headquarters of his burgeoning LDS church: a traveling showman, with four Egyptian mummies and some hieroglyphic texts in tow. The church bought the mummies and texts, and Smith said he translated the hieroglyphics, resulting in the Book of Abraham, which lays out Smith's cosmic vision of the afterlife. (Although Egyptian hieroglyphics had been deciphered in France in 1822 with the help of the Rosetta Stone, the news had barely reached U.S. shores.) As Smith and his followers moved around the Midwest, often fleeing angry mobs, they carried the mummies and papyri with them. After Smith's death at the hands of one of those mobs in Nauvoo, Illinois, they were sold by his family.

The fate of the mummies remains a mystery. But in 1966, a University of Utah professor examining artifacts at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City came across 11 Egyptian papyri with an 1856 certificate of sale signed by Smith's widow, Emma. The professor realized he was looking at the Book of Abraham papyri, and the documents were returned to the Mormon church.
Ferguson learned the news from a frontpage article in the newspaper Deseret News on 27 November 1967. Within days, he wrote to a friend in the church leadership, begging to know whether the papyri would be studied. Hearing that no studies were planned, Ferguson, as ever, took matters into his own hands. He received photos of the documents from the church and hired Egyptologists at UC Berkeley to translate them. He told the scholars nothing about the religious significance of the papyri. "He was conducting a clearly blind test," Clark says.

The results started coming in 6 weeks later. "I believe that all of these are spells from the Egyptian Book of the Dead," UC Berkeley Egyptologist Leonard Lesko wrote to Ferguson. Three other scholars independently gave Ferguson the same result: The texts were authentic ancient Egyptian, but represented one of the most common documents in that culture.

I'm pretty sure Mormons don't care what you think of their religion. Most people don't care what other people think of their religion. World's funny like that.

Indeed. But perhaps they should care that their darling joseph lied to them..

Does it matter if Joseph lied or Constantine the great? Or any other leader?

Whats the point of believing in someone when you knwo they are full of shit?

i ask that question every day about Trump supporters!!

 

[Avatar4321]

Jesus came after christianity? Or after the Jews? lol

Jesus came after Abraham. Actually Jesus always was, he is eternal. Ever read the part in the NT where Jesus says...."Before Abrhams was, I Am. However, he came to earth as a human. As the Messiah, he was prophesied to come in Genesis. He made appearances in the Old Testament. Abraham saw him. He talked to Moses. He appeared to Daniel. No mention of Mohammed. No mention of Islam. Christianity really isn't a new separate religion. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. The first Christians were all Jews. The New Testament was written by Jews. The disciples of Jesus were all Jews. There are many Jews that are Christians today. I even know of a Christian Rabbi that teaches how the OT festivals and symbols point to Jesus. No mention of Islam.

Because Islam came AFTER christianity so why would they mention it? Look, idk if you realize what makes judaism and christianity abrahamic religions, but you need to find out.
95% of Jews dont believe Jesus to be the Messiah in their Holy book. Mostly because he didnt fulfill the prophecy. But you can CLAIM that he is the one all you want LOL

Yes, I understand many Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. However, their Scriptures do prophesy a Messiah that will come. We can agree on that. That's not disputed. Can we also agree that there is no mention of Islam and it's prophet Mohammed.

Of course they say that. Its a prophecy. One that Jesus OBVIOUSLY didnt fulfill. So why say Judaism mentions Jesus? Especially him as a person, so why would you expect christianity to when islam happened 500 years or so after?

According to the NT, Jesus fulfilled every OT prophecy pointing to the Messiah. My point is this: Whether you believe Jesus is the Messiah or not, OT prophecy speaks of a Messiah. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the OT or NT pointing to Islam or Mohammed.

What about the Old Testament prophecies of the Second coming? Pretty sure those haven't been fulfilled yet

 

[Avatar4321]

So we will just apply a completely different set of standards so we can say islam isnt one. More dishonesty smh..
Not a very "christian" trait..

Oh, c'mon, don't start that crap. I applied one standard to Islam, Christianity and Judaism, and that was Scripture. You know that, so just cease with the cheap shots.

Its not a cheap shot. You have your own version of "abrahamic religions" and it isnt correct.
Its dishonest. Seriously, how does it hurt you to admit reality?

No, it is a cheap shot because I used scriptures and only scripture. You're just butthurt that you got schooled. Grow up.

Scripture doesn’t prove the contents of itself.

Yes, it does. Do you have the Holy Spirit?

Do you?

 

[Avatar4321]

Indeed. But perhaps they should care that their darling joseph lied to them..

Does it matter if Joseph lied or Constantine the great? Or any other leader?

Whats the point of believing in someone when you knwo they are full of shit?

Belief isn’t founded on logic. It’s fiunded on faith. And people believe what they believe regardless of fact — like people who think the earth is 5000 years old. We know that’s absurd.

Excellent post
No shit, last week or so some guy said "when the earth was flat" LOL

Its not a cheap shot. You have your own version of "abrahamic religions" and it isnt correct.
Its dishonest. Seriously, how does it hurt you to admit reality?

No, it is a cheap shot because I used scriptures and only scripture. You're just butthurt that you got schooled. Grow up.

Scripture doesn’t prove the contents of itself.

Yes, it does. Do you have the Holy Spirit?

How does it. It is based on the same “faith” not in fact. So saying scripture proves the existence of what the scripture says is dishonest and silly.

The Holy Spirit agrees with Scripture. That's what skeptics and unbelievers can't understand. It's not an ordinary book. It's a living spirit. Jesus said "My words are life and Spirit".

The Holy Spirit testifies to those who seek to know that the Book of Mormon is true.

 

[Avatar4321]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

12 witnesses saw the plates retard. At least get your facts straight. Of the 12 at least one eventually left the church and NEVER recanted seeing the plates.

More than 12 actually. Only 12 had their testimonies printed with the Book of Mormon.

Appropriate since the Book of Mormon is a type for the burial and resurrection of Christ

 

[Penelope]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

12 witnesses saw the plates retard. At least get your facts straight. Of the 12 at least one eventually left the church and NEVER recanted seeing the plates.

More than 12 actually. Only 12 had their testimonies printed with the Book of Mormon.

Appropriate since the Book of Mormon is a type for the burial and resurrection of Christ

The twelve, 3 of them saw a vision and the rest were from 2 families.

 

[JoeB131]

I have faith the flying spaghetti monster raped Thor in 1976

Which issue of his comic was that in? Because the Thor comics were pretty trippy in the 1970's.

 

[TNHarley]

What makes the bible real?

The one and only true book of God, our Lord and saviour. All others are copy-cat phony spin-offs used to enslave, pillage and rape. Like the koran.

the same can be said of the bible. Copy cat, anyways.
It isnt very original...

No, the same can't be said of the Bible. The scribes were meticulous when copying scrolls. The Jewish scribes were painstakingly accurate. If there was one mistake on the proof reading, the entire scroll was trashed.

I assume you are christian? If so, how do you know? Your NT is so trashed from misrepresentations, you dont know what the hell they were saying. People that speak Hebrew laugh at you guys....
I was referring to the stories in the bible that were copies from older religions. Garden of Eden, chapters in proverbs, angels and demons (good vs evil) etc

Where were they copied from?

Persian religion zoroastrianism and amenemope.

 

[TNHarley]

I have faith the flying spaghetti monster raped Thor in 1976

Which issue of his comic was that in? Because the Thor comics were pretty trippy in the 1970's.

The GOD not the character. silly goose

 

[ding]

Very interesting article. I have never heard of this before.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...archaeology-mexico-and-ended-losing-his-faith
This is the main takeaway

In the summer of 1835, Joseph Smith had received a curious visitor in Kirtland, Ohio, then the headquarters of his burgeoning LDS church: a traveling showman, with four Egyptian mummies and some hieroglyphic texts in tow. The church bought the mummies and texts, and Smith said he translated the hieroglyphics, resulting in the Book of Abraham, which lays out Smith's cosmic vision of the afterlife. (Although Egyptian hieroglyphics had been deciphered in France in 1822 with the help of the Rosetta Stone, the news had barely reached U.S. shores.) As Smith and his followers moved around the Midwest, often fleeing angry mobs, they carried the mummies and papyri with them. After Smith's death at the hands of one of those mobs in Nauvoo, Illinois, they were sold by his family.

The fate of the mummies remains a mystery. But in 1966, a University of Utah professor examining artifacts at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City came across 11 Egyptian papyri with an 1856 certificate of sale signed by Smith's widow, Emma. The professor realized he was looking at the Book of Abraham papyri, and the documents were returned to the Mormon church.
Ferguson learned the news from a frontpage article in the newspaper Deseret News on 27 November 1967. Within days, he wrote to a friend in the church leadership, begging to know whether the papyri would be studied. Hearing that no studies were planned, Ferguson, as ever, took matters into his own hands. He received photos of the documents from the church and hired Egyptologists at UC Berkeley to translate them. He told the scholars nothing about the religious significance of the papyri. "He was conducting a clearly blind test," Clark says.

The results started coming in 6 weeks later. "I believe that all of these are spells from the Egyptian Book of the Dead," UC Berkeley Egyptologist Leonard Lesko wrote to Ferguson. Three other scholars independently gave Ferguson the same result: The texts were authentic ancient Egyptian, but represented one of the most common documents in that culture.

I wonder if there is a group of Mormons somewhere patting themselves on their backs for ridiculing Tennessee hicks.

 

[Indeependent]

The one and only true book of God, our Lord and saviour. All others are copy-cat phony spin-offs used to enslave, pillage and rape. Like the koran.

the same can be said of the bible. Copy cat, anyways.
It isnt very original...

No, the same can't be said of the Bible. The scribes were meticulous when copying scrolls. The Jewish scribes were painstakingly accurate. If there was one mistake on the proof reading, the entire scroll was trashed.

I assume you are christian? If so, how do you know? Your NT is so trashed from misrepresentations, you dont know what the hell they were saying. People that speak Hebrew laugh at you guys....
I was referring to the stories in the bible that were copies from older religions. Garden of Eden, chapters in proverbs, angels and demons (good vs evil) etc

Where were they copied from?

Persian religion zoroastrianism and amenemope.

Comtemporaries...try again.

 

[TNHarley]

the same can be said of the bible. Copy cat, anyways.
It isnt very original...

No, the same can't be said of the Bible. The scribes were meticulous when copying scrolls. The Jewish scribes were painstakingly accurate. If there was one mistake on the proof reading, the entire scroll was trashed.

I assume you are christian? If so, how do you know? Your NT is so trashed from misrepresentations, you dont know what the hell they were saying. People that speak Hebrew laugh at you guys....
I was referring to the stories in the bible that were copies from older religions. Garden of Eden, chapters in proverbs, angels and demons (good vs evil) etc

Where were they copied from?

Persian religion zoroastrianism and amenemope.

Comtemporaries...try again.

They both are over a millenia older