Book of Mormon a bunch of crap?

[BS Filter]

I have mormon friends. Good people. Sincere. Sincerely wrong. Supposedly, an angel delivered a new gospel. I read in the first chapter of Galatians that even if an angel brings a different gospel than the one Paul preached to let him be accursed. The scriptures say the devil can appear as an angel of light. So how do we know the truth? The Holy Spirit and the Word. They must agree. Mormonism doesn't agree with Scripture.

Revelation 14:6-7 promises an angel carrying the everlasting Gospel. The gospel Moroni brought was not another one. It was the long awaited restoration of the same Gospel Paul taught.

The Book of Mormon contains a promise that the Holy Spirit will show you that it's true. And the Holy Spirit does.

We're never going to agree on that. I have the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has shown me that Mormonism is a lie. We'll leave it at that.

 

[BS Filter]

Jesus came after Abraham. Actually Jesus always was, he is eternal. Ever read the part in the NT where Jesus says...."Before Abrhams was, I Am. However, he came to earth as a human. As the Messiah, he was prophesied to come in Genesis. He made appearances in the Old Testament. Abraham saw him. He talked to Moses. He appeared to Daniel. No mention of Mohammed. No mention of Islam. Christianity really isn't a new separate religion. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. The first Christians were all Jews. The New Testament was written by Jews. The disciples of Jesus were all Jews. There are many Jews that are Christians today. I even know of a Christian Rabbi that teaches how the OT festivals and symbols point to Jesus. No mention of Islam.

Because Islam came AFTER christianity so why would they mention it? Look, idk if you realize what makes judaism and christianity abrahamic religions, but you need to find out.
95% of Jews dont believe Jesus to be the Messiah in their Holy book. Mostly because he didnt fulfill the prophecy. But you can CLAIM that he is the one all you want LOL

Yes, I understand many Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. However, their Scriptures do prophesy a Messiah that will come. We can agree on that. That's not disputed. Can we also agree that there is no mention of Islam and it's prophet Mohammed.

Of course they say that. Its a prophecy. One that Jesus OBVIOUSLY didnt fulfill. So why say Judaism mentions Jesus? Especially him as a person, so why would you expect christianity to when islam happened 500 years or so after?

According to the NT, Jesus fulfilled every OT prophecy pointing to the Messiah. My point is this: Whether you believe Jesus is the Messiah or not, OT prophecy speaks of a Messiah. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the OT or NT pointing to Islam or Mohammed.

What about the Old Testament prophecies of the Second coming? Pretty sure those haven't been fulfilled yet

Agree.

 

[Penelope]

Jesus came after christianity? Or after the Jews? lol

Jesus came after Abraham. Actually Jesus always was, he is eternal. Ever read the part in the NT where Jesus says...."Before Abrhams was, I Am. However, he came to earth as a human. As the Messiah, he was prophesied to come in Genesis. He made appearances in the Old Testament. Abraham saw him. He talked to Moses. He appeared to Daniel. No mention of Mohammed. No mention of Islam. Christianity really isn't a new separate religion. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. The first Christians were all Jews. The New Testament was written by Jews. The disciples of Jesus were all Jews. There are many Jews that are Christians today. I even know of a Christian Rabbi that teaches how the OT festivals and symbols point to Jesus. No mention of Islam.

Because Islam came AFTER christianity so why would they mention it? Look, idk if you realize what makes judaism and christianity abrahamic religions, but you need to find out.
95% of Jews dont believe Jesus to be the Messiah in their Holy book. Mostly because he didnt fulfill the prophecy. But you can CLAIM that he is the one all you want LOL

Yes, I understand many Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. However, their Scriptures do prophesy a Messiah that will come. We can agree on that. That's not disputed. Can we also agree that there is no mention of Islam and it's prophet Mohammed.

Of course they say that. Its a prophecy. One that Jesus OBVIOUSLY didnt fulfill. So why say Judaism mentions Jesus? Especially him as a person, so why would you expect christianity to when islam happened 500 years or so after?

According to the NT, Jesus fulfilled every OT prophecy pointing to the Messiah. My point is this: Whether you believe Jesus is the Messiah or not, OT prophecy speaks of a Messiah. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the OT or NT pointing to Islam or Mohammed.

Do you know the history of land of Palestine in the first century?

 

[Penelope]

I've been reading the book of Mormons and The late war by Gilbert Hunt are a lot a like. The late war is the war of 1812, and was taught in schools , it was wrote like the King James bible. I have not read both completely, but it sounds like Josephus and the NT similarities.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

12 witnesses saw the plates retard. At least get your facts straight. Of the 12 at least one eventually left the church and NEVER recanted seeing the plates.

Sure.....witnesses....members of the church...sure....

Some of them eventually QUIT the church but NEVER recanted seeing the plates RETARD.

 

[bodecea]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

12 witnesses saw the plates retard. At least get your facts straight. Of the 12 at least one eventually left the church and NEVER recanted seeing the plates.

Sure.....witnesses....members of the church...sure....

Some of them eventually QUIT the church but NEVER recanted seeing the plates RETARD.

Sure...that's so very convincing......and you call ME a retard.....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Raised in Western NY near Hill Cumorah where this whole thing began....Smith was a con artist, just like L. Ron Hubbard, just like Muhammed, just like Saul/Paul.

You mean he never really found those "golden plates" that nobody else was allowed to see?

12 witnesses saw the plates retard. At least get your facts straight. Of the 12 at least one eventually left the church and NEVER recanted seeing the plates.

Sure.....witnesses....members of the church...sure....

Some of them eventually QUIT the church but NEVER recanted seeing the plates RETARD.

Sure...that's so very convincing......and you call ME a retard.....

I believe when 12 people swear they saw something and then leave the church but do not recant seeing the scrolls that they told the truth yes. Meanwhile you support lying as in your statement that No one saw the plates.

 

[onefour1]

I always thought Joseph Smith was a schizo or a con.

One of the things I could never understand about Joseph Smith was that he taught and practiced polygamy and many of his followers followed his advice. However, the Book of Mormon specifically and strongly condemns this practice The following verses are from the Book of Mormon. All verse numbers have been removed for easier reading and all highlights are my own:

“And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son” (Jacob 1:15).

“But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son. Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord. Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old. Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes” (Jacob 2:23,-29).

“And it came to pass that Riplakish did not do that which was right in the sight of the Lord, for he did have many wives and concubines, and did lay that upon men's shoulders which was grievous to be borne; yea, he did tax them with heavy taxes; and with the taxes he did build many spacious buildings” (Ether 10:5).

“And now it came to pass that Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon Noah, one of his sons; therefore Noah began to reign in his stead; and he did not walk in the ways of his father. For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness” (Mosiah 11:1, 2).

For those of you who do not have a copy of the Book of Mormon, here is a link that will get you access to the Book. The site has both word-search and verse-search:

The Book of Mormon -- Simple Searches'

Let's go back and take another look at Jacob chapter 2:

Jacob 2:24-30
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

In this last verse (30) it states that if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. The Lord reserves the right to command his people to live according to the law of plural marriage when he desires to raise up seed unto himself. In other words, if God feels that He needs to raise up seed unto himself, he reserves the right to command his people to live according to the law of plural marriage. In many cases the people have been justified in living this law since it was commanded of them by God. But in other cases they have been condemned for taking this upon themselves. When God does not command such, it is considered sin. Consider the words of the revelation given to Joseph Smith concerning this law:

Doctrine and Covenants 132:28-35
28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.
29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.
30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.
32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.
36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.
40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.
41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.
42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has committed adultery.
43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a vow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.
44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and give her unto him that hath not committed adultery but hath been faithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.
45 For I have conferred upon you the keys and power of the priesthood, wherein I restore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time.

D&C 132 clarifies that David did not sin only in the case of Uriah. Solomon likewise. If he sinned it was in that he took wives which were not given unto him of the Lord.

In this, the last dispensation before the coming of Christ, it has been promised that God would restore all things.

Acts 3:21
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

What this means is that God, in this the dispensation of the fulness of times will restore all things that have been revealed from the heavens in previous dispensations. This includes the priesthood that was given unto Abraham wherein he was allowed to practice the law of plural marriage and not have it considered adultery. To the people of the Book of Mormon this priesthood was not given.

 

[LittleNipper]

The Word of GOD is founded on fact and not feelings. The Book of Mormon is founded on feelings and not fact.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I believe when 12 people swear they saw something and then leave the church but do not recant seeing the scrolls that they told the truth yes.

Haha....buuuuuuuullshit. If we were talking about 12 muslims who claim they saw Mohammed at Allah's side (and no Jesus) would you believe them?

Manson family members claim Manson was well versed in black magic. They claim black magic is real, and Manson could control it. Must be true!

 

[Avatar4321]

I have mormon friends. Good people. Sincere. Sincerely wrong. Supposedly, an angel delivered a new gospel. I read in the first chapter of Galatians that even if an angel brings a different gospel than the one Paul preached to let him be accursed. The scriptures say the devil can appear as an angel of light. So how do we know the truth? The Holy Spirit and the Word. They must agree. Mormonism doesn't agree with Scripture.

Revelation 14:6-7 promises an angel carrying the everlasting Gospel. The gospel Moroni brought was not another one. It was the long awaited restoration of the same Gospel Paul taught.

The Book of Mormon contains a promise that the Holy Spirit will show you that it's true. And the Holy Spirit does.

We're never going to agree on that. I have the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has shown me that Mormonism is a lie. We'll leave it at that.

I don't think the Spirit has done any such thing

 

[Avatar4321]

The Word of GOD is founded on fact and not feelings. The Book of Mormon is founded on feelings and not fact.

That is empty rhetoric. Its complete jibberish.

The Holy Spirit is not a feeling. He is a member of Godhead. He testifies of truth. He speaks the Word of God because He is God. And He will show any who study the Book of Mormon and take Moroni's challenge that it is true

 

[Avatar4321]

I believe when 12 people swear they saw something and then leave the church but do not recant seeing the scrolls that they told the truth yes.

Haha....buuuuuuuullshit. If we were talking about 12 muslims who claim they saw Mohammed at Allah's side (and no Jesus) would you believe them?

Manson family members claim Manson was well versed in black magic. They claim black magic is real, and Manson could control it. Must be true!

If 12 people saw Mohammad at Allah's side, then had disputes with Mohammad and left Islam but continued affirming their witness, you wouldn't pause to consider it?

Besides the claim was no one saw the plates. We've pointed out that this is true so now I can only conclude that point has been conceded.

And that is the real miracle of Mormonism. The message has never been "I've seen this obey me". It's been " I've seen this come see for yourself." Every major event outside first vision had had multiple witnesses.

Oliver Cowdery, one of the Book of Mormon witnesses, was witness for the restoration of the priesthood as well. This is his account of the Aaronic priesthood being restored:

“These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’

“To notice, in even few words, the interesting account given by Mormon and his faithful son, Moroni, of a people once beloved and favored of heaven, would supersede my present design; I shall therefore defer this to a future period, and, as I said in the introduction, pass more directly to some few incidents immediately connected with the rise of this Church, which may be entertaining to some thousands who have stepped forward, amid the frowns of bigots and the calumny of hypocrites, and embraced the Gospel of Christ.

“No men, in their sober senses, could translate and write the directions given to the Nephites from the mouth of the Savior, of the precise manner in which men should build up His Church, and especially when corruption had spread an uncertainty over all forms and systems practiced among men, without desiring a privilege of showing the willingness of the heart by being buried in the liquid grave, to answer a ‘good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.’

“After writing the account given of the Savior’s ministry to the remnant of the seed of Jacob, upon this continent, it was easy to be seen, as the prophet said it would be, that darkness covered the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people. On reflecting further it was as easy to be seen that amid the great strife and noise concerning religion, none had authority from God to administer the ordinances of the Gospel. For the question might be asked, have men authority to administer in the name of Christ, who deny revelations, when His testimony is no less than the spirit of prophecy, and His religion based, built, and sustained by immediate revelations, in all ages of the world when He has had a people on earth? If these facts were buried, and carefully concealed by men whose craft would have been in danger if once permitted to shine in the faces of men, they were no longer to us; and we only waited for the commandment to be given ‘Arise and be baptized.’

“This was not long desired before it was realized. The Lord, who is rich in mercy, and ever willing to answer the consistent prayer of the humble, after we had called upon Him in a fervent manner, aside from the abodes of men, condescended to manifest to us His will. On a sudden, as from the midst of eternity, the voice of the Redeemer spake peace to us, while the veil was parted and the angel of God came down clothed with glory, and delivered the anxiously looked for message, and the keys of the Gospel of repentance. What joy! what wonder! what amazement! While the world was racked and distracted—while millions were groping as the blind for the wall, and while all men were resting upon uncertainty, as a general mass, our eyes beheld, our ears heard, as in the ‘blaze of day’; yes, more—above the glitter of the May sunbeam, which then shed its brilliancy over the face of nature! Then his voice, though mild, pierced to the center, and his words, ‘I am thy fellow-servant,’ dispelled every fear. We listened, we gazed, we admired! ’Twas the voice of an angel from glory, ’twas a message from the Most High! And as we heard we rejoiced, while His love enkindled upon our souls, and we were wrapped in the vision of the Almighty! Where was room for doubt? Nowhere; uncertainty had fled, doubt had sunk no more to rise, while fiction and deception had fled forever!

“But, dear brother, think, further think for a moment, what joy filled our hearts, and with what surprise we must have bowed, (for who would not have bowed the knee for such a blessing?) when we received under his hand the Holy Priesthood as he said, ‘Upon you my fellow-servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer this Priesthood and this authority, which shall remain upon earth, that the Sons of Levi may yet offer an offering unto the Lord in righteousness!’

“I shall not attempt to paint to you the feelings of this heart, nor the majestic beauty and glory which surrounded us on this occasion; but you will believe me when I say, that earth, nor men, with the eloquence of time, cannot begin to clothe language in as interesting and sublime a manner as this holy personage. No; nor has this earth power to give the joy, to bestow the peace, or comprehend the wisdom which was contained in each sentence as they were delivered by the power of the Holy Spirit! Man may deceive his fellow-men, deception may follow deception, and the children of the wicked one may have power to seduce the foolish and untaught, till naught but fiction feeds the many, and the fruit of falsehood carries in its current the giddy to the grave; but one touch with the finger of his love, yes, one ray of glory from the upper world, or one word from the mouth of the Savior, from the bosom of eternity, strikes it all into insignificance, and blots it forever from the mind. The assurance that we were in the presence of an angel, the certainty that we heard the voice of Jesus, and the truth unsullied as it flowed from a pure personage, dictated by the will of God, is to me past description, and I shall ever look upon this expression of the Savior’s goodness with wonder and thanksgiving while I am permitted to tarry; and in those mansions where perfection dwells and sin never comes, I hope to adore in that day which shall never cease.”—Messenger and Advocate, vol. 1 (October 1834), pp. 14–16.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Frankly, I am at a complete loss as to how anyone can possibly take the Book of Mormon seriously for more than one chapter.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If 12 people saw Mohammad at Allah's side, then had disputes with Mohammad and left Islam but continued affirming their witness, you wouldn't pause to consider it?

I absolutely would not! I would nod and smile and think, "Get out of here with that crazy bullshit, you freaks."


But thanks for asking!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Frankly, I am at a complete loss as to how anyone can possibly take the Book of Mormon seriously for more than one chapter.

Seriously.... what in bloody hell... one would almost HAVE to be born into it and brainwashed as a child.


I read a list of some of the canonical myths to my kids... they were laughing. And no, I wasn't coaching them. It was a real wake up for them. My son was aghast that adults believe that stuff.

 

[LittleNipper]

The Word of GOD is founded on fact and not feelings. The Book of Mormon is founded on feelings and not fact.

That is empty rhetoric. Its complete jibberish.

The Holy Spirit is not a feeling. He is a member of Godhead. He testifies of truth. He speaks the Word of God because He is God. And He will show any who study the Book of Mormon and take Moroni's challenge that it is true

There is no such Moroni challenge found anywhere in the Bible --- only in the book of Mormon. Mormons need converts ---- not Christians, and the only way that can happen is if one accepts the book of Mormon. Christians need only CHRIST.

 

[Picaro]

Doesn't matter much what they believe; it seems to work for them, and they are mostly nice people, believe in the Protestant work ethic, and have some great emergency planning strategies. I buy my stores from them, and have for over 20 years now. they have their weirdos and freaks but not nearly as many as 'new atheist' tards do, so they're still a lot more preferable and useful to society than you deviants and gimp Jesus haters are or ever will be, so there is nothing to complain about re Mormons..

 

[Picaro]

Frankly, I am at a complete loss as to how anyone can possibly take the Book of Mormon seriously for more than one chapter.

Seriously.... what in bloody hell... one would almost HAVE to be born into it and brainwashed as a child.


I read a list of some of the canonical myths to my kids... they were laughing. And no, I wasn't coaching them. It was a real wake up for them. My son was aghast that adults believe that stuff.

Well good thing they're dumber than rocks or they would be laughing their asses off at you on sight, like all your neighbors do.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Doesn't matter much what they believe; it seems to work for them, and they are mostly nice people, believe in the Protestant work ethic, and have some great emergency planning strategies. I buy my stores from them, and have for over 20 years now. they have their weirdos and freaks but not nearly as many as 'new atheist' tards do, so they're still a lot more preferable and useful to society than you deviants and gimp Jesus haters are or ever will be, so there is nothing to complain about re Mormons..

I am sure that Jesus appreciates you being his spokesperson ....