Borders are a basic building block of a civilized society ...

[RodISHI]

Think about it without distinct borders the world as a whole at this point cannot properly function in peace. Most of America's success and prosperity came by way of the people who had hopes and dreams of having their own property complete with boundaries (borders). As the civil laws were created to protect their personal rights and borders from intruders the country continued to prosper. Take away those boundaries and the civilized portions starts going downhill.

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Not necessarily true.

If people around the world embraced a life of non-aggression, peaceful exchange between consenting parties, and a live-and-let-live ethos, borders would be unnecessary. But too many have been convinced that the primary violators of that ethical model -namely governments- are necessary.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Not necessarily true.

If people around the world embraced a life of non-aggression, peaceful exchange between consenting parties, and a live-and-let-live ethos, borders would be unnecessary. But too many have been convinced that the primary violators of that ethical model -namely governments- are necessary.

Your initial premise is the pipe dream the founders realized necessitated govt

 

[RodISHI]

Not necessarily true.

If people around the world embraced a life of non-aggression, peaceful exchange between consenting parties, and a live-and-let-live ethos, borders would be unnecessary. But too many have been convinced that the primary violators of that ethical model -namely governments- are necessary.

"You will always have the poor". That statement covers a lot of ground for those who can grasp it. Greed does not cease and neither does the desire in humans for the liberty of freedom of self determination and their own choices.

 

[Unkotare]

Not necessarily true.

If people around the world embraced a life of non-aggression, peaceful exchange between consenting parties, and a live-and-let-live ethos, borders would be unnecessary. But too many have been convinced that the primary violators of that ethical model -namely governments- are necessary.

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

"You will always have the poor". That statement covers a lot of ground for those who can grasp it. Greed does not cease and neither does the desire in humans for the liberty of freedom of self determination and their own choices.

Greed indeed does not cease.

So why keep insisting upon having a monopoly on the use of aggressive force (government), that attracts the greedy and avaricious like a moths to a flame?

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Your initial premise is the pipe dream the founders realized necessitated govt

The pipe dream is that government can be kept in its box.

Spooner was right: your holy Constitution has either set the conditions for the despotic mess we're in, or has been entirely ineffective at preventing it.

Madison got it 180 degrees wrong: it is because men are not angels that government cannot remain limited.

 

[RodISHI]

"You will always have the poor". That statement covers a lot of ground for those who can grasp it. Greed does not cease and neither does the desire in humans for the liberty of freedom of self determination and their own choices.

Greed indeed does not cease.

So why keep insisting upon having a monopoly on the use of aggressive force (government), that attracts the greedy and avaricious like a moths to a flame?

Governing is part of a civil society also (even heaven has a governing body- one set for the corrupt flesh and one for the spirit of the Son).

 

[Manonthestreet]

Not necessarily true.

If people around the world embraced a life of non-aggression, peaceful exchange between consenting parties, and a live-and-let-live ethos, borders would be unnecessary. But too many have been convinced that the primary violators of that ethical model -namely governments- are necessary.

Your initial premise is the pipe dream the founders realized necessitated govt

The pipe dream is that government can be kept in its box.

Spooner was right: your holy Constitution has either set the conditions for the despotic mess we're in, or has been entirely ineffective at preventing it.

that is the failure of the people to hold it to account. they tolerate and applaud lies then wonder why everything turns to shit....

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Governing is part of a civil society also (even heaven has a governing body- one set for the corrupt flesh and one for the spirit of the Son).

You're starting to sound like a Mayan sun worshiper, rationalizing human sacrifice.


If what we have now is "civil society" give me chaos.

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

that is the failure of the people to hold it to account. they tolerate and applaud lies then wonder why everything turns to shit....

That they aren't held to account proves how ineffective that "the people" are in doing so.

What you have now is worse than anarchy.

 

[RodISHI]

Governing is part of a civil society also (even heaven has a governing body- one set for the corrupt flesh and one for the spirit of the Son).

You're starting to sound like a Mayan sun worshiper, rationalizing human sacrifice.


If what we have now is "civil society" give me chaos.

What we have in this country?

 

[Manonthestreet]

that is the failure of the people to hold it to account. they tolerate and applaud lies then wonder why everything turns to shit....

That they aren't held to account proves how ineffective that "the people" are in doing so.

What you have now is worse than anarchy.

No it proves how lazy and degenerate they are as a whole.......

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

No it proves how lazy and degenerate they are as a whole.......

Oh, so your life is at the mercy of the lazy and degenerate?

Would appear I'm making some headway here.

 

[RodISHI]

View attachment 111552

Did a portion of the people call for it in their own quest for revenge?

(don't get me wrong its not a perfect country but when the people chose to believe the lies and lie to themselves shit happens)

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

What we have in this country?

Anarchy via oligarchic bureaucracy.

At least with real anarchy, nobody has such monopoly power over your or me.

 

[RodISHI]

What we have in this country?

Anarchy via oligarchic bureaucracy.

At least with real anarchy, nobody has such monopoly power over your or me.

I merely see it all as growing pains as the country is still a babe.

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Did a portion of the people call for it in their own quest for revenge?

(don't get me wrong its not a perfect country but when the people chose to believe the lies and lie to themselves shit happens)

And when you have liars with such awesome power to kill millions indiscriminately and with no accountability, your argument for keeping the institutions that make this possible would be...?

 

[esthermoon]

Think about it without distinct borders the world as a whole at this point cannot properly function in peace. Most of America's success and prosperity came by way of the people who had hopes and dreams of having their own property complete with boundaries (borders). As the civil laws were created to protect their personal rights and borders from intruders the country continued to prosper. Take away those boundaries and the civilized portions starts going downhill.

I agree with you RodlSHI
Without borders a Nation is no more a Nation. Everybody can come and go and all the power of government goes away