Both Sides of the Gun Debate Need to Listen to This

[Pop23]

Kind of a squishy definition. Swords are arms. Does the 2nd give us the right to bear every possible kind of arm or only a limited subset?

It does not specify

So we can regulate and or ban certain guns under the Constitution then. Since it doesn't specify.

It doesn't say you can......

either

 

[Pop23]

Are you really arguing that guns should be registered?

Yes. I would like to ensure that only law-abiding, trained, sane people have access to guns.

trained is not a requirement. Sane and law abiding, after due process is acceptable.

You may want to live in a country where you can have a gun and not know how to use it but I don't.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Betcha he lives in a City with HUGE gun restrictions, you know, where people get shot a lot.

 

[2aguy]

I can't understand why all these stupid Moon Bats are so anxious to give up their Constitutional rights and put their security in the hands of the government and crooks. That is just plain dumb. Our Founding Fathers certainly knew that.

It has been proven over and over again that gun control laws have a negligible effect on crime. The Moon Bats are always on the dumb side of every issue but this one is mother of all stupidity.

It is especially funny when they bitch and moan about how corrupt and evil government is......and then they want to give that same, evil, corrupt entity even more power over their lives...they are insane.

 

[2aguy]

You register a car for several reasons, but most have to be about using one on a TAX PAYER FUNDED ROADWAY.

Do any of the reasons include a hidden agenda to confiscate the cars?

No, automobiles are not covered in the constitution.

Continue

Neither are automatic weapons. Or should those be covered by the 2nd?

They are covered by the 2nd Amendment...

From Heller.....

Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms” in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the people.”

We start therefore with a strong presumption that the Second Amendment right is exercised individually and belongs to all Americans.

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment.

We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I can't understand why all these stupid Moon Bats are so anxious to give up their Constitutional rights and put their security in the hands of the government and crooks. That is just plain dumb. Our Founding Fathers certainly knew that.

It has been proven over and over again that gun control laws have a negligible effect on crime. The Moon Bats are always on the dumb side of every issue but this one is mother of all stupidity.

It is especially funny when they bitch and moan about how corrupt and evil government is......and then they want to give that same, evil, corrupt entity even more power over their lives...they are insane.

Yeah, cops are intentionally shooting innocent people!
Tell the cops to disarm us!

 

[2aguy]

It’s against the law to have an unregistered gun.

Not where I live it isn't unless you want an 'assault rifle' or fully automatic. Rifles and pistols don't require registration.

What's your point about registration anywho?

You want guns registered just like we do cars?

Yes. I don't really see any other way to keep them out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them: criminals, minors, nut jobs, etc. i'm open to other suggestions...

You punish them when they are caught using them illegally, just like every other item that is dangerous...

 

[2aguy]

Are you really arguing that guns should be registered?

Yes. I would like to ensure that only law-abiding, trained, sane people have access to guns.

I am sorry Moon Bat but according to the Bill of Rights you don't have to get permission from the filthy ass oppressive government in order to have the right to keep and bear.

Do you even know what the Bill of Rights is?

It says very specifically that being necessary for the security of a free state the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you have to prove to the filthy ass government that you are worthy to have that right then it really isn't a right at all, is it? In fact if you have to get permission for the filthy government to enjoy a right spelled out in the BORs then it isn't worth the paper it is written on, is it? Isn't also a case of you are guilty until the government says you are innocent. Gun control is despicable, isn't it?

Remember when that asshole Obama says that veterans are potential terrorists? Do you really want some government loony like him to determine who should have the right to keep and bear arms and who shouldn't? If you do then you are an idiot. How about the asshole Democrats in New York passing the SAFE Act and then a veteran had his firearms confiscated because he visited the doctor because of a mild case of insomnia? Do you really want government shitheads like that doling out your Constitutional rights? If you do then you are an idiot.

Would you like for me to give you some more examples of the government infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms? I think I have done that several times but you being a stupid Moon Bat don't understand.

So the government has no right to regulate guns? Is there any other right in the Constitution that can't be regulated?

Only for product safety.....otherwise, no. You can't limit free speech before the speaker speaks.....and no, requiring a permit for a march is not limiting or regulating speech, it is coordinating the use of a public space where many may want to use it. We don't require that writers and journalists register with the government before publishing their work, we do not require them to get training in libel, and slander laws before they publish, we do not limit how much paper or ink they can use to express themselves....

 

[2aguy]

Kind of a squishy definition. Swords are arms. Does the 2nd give us the right to bear every possible kind of arm or only a limited subset?

It does not specify

So we can regulate and or ban certain guns under the Constitution then. Since it doesn't specify.

It does specify...

D.C. v. Heller...

Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms” in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the people.”

We start therefore with a strong presumption that the Second Amendment right is exercised individually and belongs to all Americans.

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment.

We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

 

[Flash]

I can't understand why all these stupid Moon Bats are so anxious to give up their Constitutional rights and put their security in the hands of the government and crooks. That is just plain dumb. Our Founding Fathers certainly knew that.

It has been proven over and over again that gun control laws have a negligible effect on crime. The Moon Bats are always on the dumb side of every issue but this one is mother of all stupidity.

It is especially funny when they bitch and moan about how corrupt and evil government is......and then they want to give that same, evil, corrupt entity even more power over their lives...they are insane.

Tier only goal is to make America a socialist shithole by any means necessary.

They need to get rid of that pesky right for Conservative White men to keep and bear arms. Number one on their list.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The left have no motive for reason, just more gun grabbing.

The same argument can be made about licensing cars and drivers.

Say what? Someone saying driving license laws need to be changed?

No but why register cars unless we want to take them away from their owners?

You only have to register a car if you plan to drive it on government owned roads.

You have no tight to drive a car on government owned roads it is instead a privilege granted to you by the state.

You do on the other hand have a right to keep and bear arms that is not a privilege granted by the state

Does the state have the right to regulate said arms?

Does the Constitution say it does?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Kind of a squishy definition. Swords are arms. Does the 2nd give us the right to bear every possible kind of arm or only a limited subset?

It does not specify

So we can regulate and or ban certain guns under the Constitution then. Since it doesn't specify.

There is no provision for the state to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.

The right belongs to the people, to the person, to the individual as all rights do

 

[alang1216]

What legitimate government purpose would gun registration serve, other than taxing guns or confiscating them?

Tracking ownership to ensure they are not in the possession of someone who shouldn't have them?
Tracking ownership to enable law enforcement to investigate gun crimes?

 

[alang1216]

The state can only restrict a constitutional right, if the state can show a compelling need to do so, and then only if doing so is the least restrictive means of solving that compelling need.

I agree.

 

[alang1216]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You may disagree with me but this country is my home and I have the right to protect my home and decide how it is run.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You may disagree with me but this country is my home and I have the right to protect my home and decide how it is run.

And you have no right to infringe n my rights if I am not breaking the law

 

[alang1216]

Your suggestion is to take from the law abiding because a criminal........

They don't give a crap about your bans, they're criminals, they will commit violent crimes regardless. Murder, Rape or whatever.

So why do you want to make women more accessible to their rapists?

I don't recall any such suggestion. I want just the opposite, I want only the law abiding and responsible to have guns.

 

[alang1216]

And you have no right to infringe n my rights if I am not breaking the law

I agree but you might want to think about what you're saying because it may not be what you mean.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you have no right to infringe n my rights if I am not breaking the law

I agree but you might want to think about what you're saying because it may not be what you mean.

I know what it means what do you think it means

 

[alang1216]

Kind of a squishy definition. Swords are arms. Does the 2nd give us the right to bear every possible kind of arm or only a limited subset?

It does not specify

So we can regulate and or ban certain guns under the Constitution then. Since it doesn't specify.

It doesn't say you can......

either

It doesn't say I can yell fire in a crowded theater either. Do I have that right?

 

[alang1216]

And you have no right to infringe n my rights if I am not breaking the law

I agree but you might want to think about what you're saying because it may not be what you mean.

I know what it means what do you think it means

It means you accept that we can pass gun control laws and, only if you don't break them, you may exercise your 2nd amendment rights. That is what you wrote.