Boy leads protest over deported mother

[doniston]

Apparently, in fact, there is a need. Thankfully, our Constitution is fluid enough to handle being added to and retracted from. If we seem to need clarification in order to fix the side affect of anchor babies then..



.

REPEAT. it is the understanding BY the legal department that needs fixing, NOT the constitution.

Perhaps we should just include the phrase" but not the families" OK???

 

[doniston]

The US has to take responsibility for doing all it does TO PREVENT people of our neighboring nations being successful in getting the changes they are actively trying to make. That means no more death squads, no more US staged coups in their countries, no more US installing brutal dictators, no more US bullying the nations into economic policies that keep them impoverished, no more bullying them for access to their resources etc.

The US citizens cant even control their own govt but we ask people to not only control thier OWN govt, but to also fight off the US one as well! US citizens are MORE equipped to do it and dont have even HALF the battle those people are up against....yet we cant manage it. They can do it much better if we remove ourselves as such a large and deadly obstacle.

Oh, and the US OWES them, owes them more than we can ever even repay and we OWE them for the years of terrorism we have committed against them.

I think you arguement is garbled. it has little to do with the issue at hand

 

[doniston]

Im pretty sure that WE are not the reason MEXICO is a shithole. I agree with you on the meddling of the CIA.. indeed, I can see ho the fallout would affect people.. However, the CIA is not the reason Mexico is a shithole. The US is not the reason MExico is a shithole. MEXICO is the reason that MEXICO is a shithole. Sure, Canadia is a nicer place to live than Mexico.. but that's because Canadia follows a different cultural path than Mexico.

I repeat:

WE are not the reason that MExico is a shithole and a crappy place to live. It's not our responsibility to clean up the shitty diaper of Mexico. I can hear the humanitarian arguement and would be open to suggestions to alleviate considtions that we have control over, however, piling millions into a john boat beceause no one wants to learn how to swim wont work. Mexico should learn how to swim on it's own and Mexicans should be the ones to change THEIR homeland instead of running away to ours.

OH, come on, Don't be shy, Why don't you just SAY what you mean ???? HEH HEH. I fully agree with you.

 

[Shogun]

REPEAT. it is the understanding BY the legal department that needs fixing, NOT the constitution.

Perhaps we should just include the phrase" but not the families" OK???

whatsa matter? a little clarification a scary idea? the legal dept are going to argue without getting to any real solutions. Sure, we can let the scotus argue it out but that doesn't seem to work for determining individual privacy (ninth) so why pretend that clarification isn't necessary here?

Perhaps we should realize that the Constitution has never been a static icon set in stone and it is, in fact, reflective of the people who have to abide by it's standards... INCLUDING todays illegal immigrant issues and the American's who have been told that the band-aid for slavery validates anchor babies birthed by illegals seeking the fast lane to a green card.

 

[Ruby]

I think you arguement is garbled. it has little to do with the issue at hand

Not at all, its pretty simple. The US creates situations in latin american nations that motivate people to escape, that means they illegally immigrate to the US. If we want less illegal immigration then we should stop creating the situation that motivates them to do so.

 

[Shogun]

OH, come on, Don't be shy, Why don't you just SAY what you mean ???? HEH HEH. I fully agree with you.

I tend to be honest like that. It's a curse.

 

[Ruby]

Im pretty sure that WE are not the reason MEXICO is a shithole. I agree with you on the meddling of the CIA.. indeed, I can see ho the fallout would affect people.. However, the CIA is not the reason Mexico is a shithole. The US is not the reason MExico is a shithole. MEXICO is the reason that MEXICO is a shithole. Sure, Canadia is a nicer place to live than Mexico.. but that's because Canadia follows a different cultural path than Mexico.

I repeat:

WE are not the reason that MExico is a shithole and a crappy place to live. It's not our responsibility to clean up the shitty diaper of Mexico. I can hear the humanitarian arguement and would be open to suggestions to alleviate considtions that we have control over, however, piling millions into a john boat beceause no one wants to learn how to swim wont work. Mexico should learn how to swim on it's own and Mexicans should be the ones to change THEIR homeland instead of running away to ours.

We have done the same to mexico as we have to the rest of latin america. We have interferred in their politics and backed only leaders who will do US bidding and use our might to defeat anyone who dare disagree. Our school of americas and mercenarys (death squads) are utilized in Mexico just as they are in other parts of the world as well.

Its not their "culture" that placed them in the position they are in...its US dominance in the region and our faulty idea that its OUR RIGHT to dictate to them and interferre (with deadly force when neccessary).

Honestly just consider the oil Mexico has and its not hard to realize why the US interferres.

http://texascivilrightsreview.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=680

At the time of the massacre, the CIA leader forwarded untrue reports to Washington that the shootings had been instigated by Trotskyites, although the truth would come out much later that the killings had been deliberately planned as a military operation.

Biographer and columnist Jefferson Morley has posted documents online in support of his account at the NSA Archive of George Washington University.

The information offers a telling model for the way that so-called CIA intelligence and FBI investigations can work in alliance with hardline ambitions against genuine grassroots movements.

http://www.aztlan.net/future_us_invasion_of_mexico.htm

and lets look at NED and USAID activity in Mexico.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/country/mexico/

The USAID Program: USAID plans to spend $33 million in programs in 2004, many of which reinforce President Fox’s reforms. Included in USAID’s work in Mexico are programs to prevent and control infectious diseases (such as tuberculosis and HIV/AIDS), form partnerships between U.S. and Mexican higher education institutions, improve management of natural resources, and broaden access to financial opportunities. In addition, USAID collaborates with the Mexican government to achieve higher standards on accountability and openness.

Thats 33 million from just ONE of the agencies the US uses to interferre and corrupt peoples right to self-determine.

http://www.ned.org/grants/06programs/grants-lac06.html#mexico

You can choose mexico, they dont give a lump sum they just give various money amount to various "projects" and you can see them for yourself.

We are doing the SAME exact things to Mexico as we do to the rest and how lethal we get depends on how much they fight us.

There is also much evidence that Mexico suffered some of the same kind of voter tampering we had in the US (surprise surprise) and many legitimate voters were stripped of their right to vote and another SHOCK....they came from the poor districts and were believed to be more inclined to vote for the one the US govt wasnt backing.

 

[Shogun]

bullshit.

In a nation whose own police force is rife with it's own corruption it is a FAR cry to insist that American influence, INFLUENCE not control, is why Mexico can't give it's own people clean drinking water. Like I said, AMERICA is not the reason Mexico is a shithole.

I would agree that America is why CUBA is a shithole.. but certainly not Mexico. Instead of a Mexican revolution where MEXICANS reinvent their own nation as a first world country they exodus here and expect our humanitarian concience to hand out finite resources without having the courtesy to come in through the front door. Im sorry, but I refuse to take the blame for the living standard of MEXICO. This is why I always suggest that we should annex 100 miles into Mexico, garentee the social benefits of NAFTA in that area, and let MEXICANS develop on their land what they crave here. Hell, I wouldnt even care if we GAVE BACK that land to Mexico once it serves as a buffer between a bloating America and Mexicans who don't give a fuck as long as they get into the country long enough to get a fat chick pregnant. I don't WANT 100 miles of Mexico; I WANT the illegal immigration, and loopholes, to end.



Electoral Democracy Has Yet to Shake Mexico's Corrupt Bureaucracy
http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=21863

Greasing Palms: Corruption in Mexico
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=4640

Senator Biden Urges America To Take Tougher Stance With ‘Corrupt' Mexico
http://www.nysun.com/article/44296

World Briefing | Americas: Mexico: U.S. Warns Corrupt Cancún Police Are Swindling Tourists
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D02E0D7163EF934A35757C0A9639C8B63

WORLD BRIEFING | AMERICAS; Mexico: New Allegations of Corrupt Police For Tijuana's Ex-Mayor
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A02E5DD1538F930A3575BC0A9619C8B63

Mexico's Tijuana crackdown hunts for corrupt cops
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20070105/ai_n17112172




I repeat.. AMERICA is not the reason Mexico is full of corruption. WE had our own revolution and they need to have their own instead of breaking in and getting some chick preggos for a green card.

 

[Ruby]

bullshit.

In a nation whose own police force is rife with it's own corruption it is a FAR cry to insist that American influence, INFLUENCE not control, is why Mexico can't give it's own people clean drinking water. Like I said, AMERICA is not the reason Mexico is a shithole.

I would agree that America is why CUBA is a shithole.. but certainly not Mexico. Instead of a Mexican revolution where MEXICANS reinvent their own nation as a first world country they exodus here and expect our humanitarian concience to hand out finite resources without having the courtesy to come in through the front door. Im sorry, but I refuse to take the blame for the living standard of MEXICO. This is why I always suggest that we should annex 100 miles into Mexico, garentee the social benefits of NAFTA in that area, and let MEXICANS develop on their land what they crave here. Hell, I wouldnt even care if we GAVE BACK that land to Mexico once it serves as a buffer between a bloating America and Mexicans who don't give a fuck as long as they get into the country long enough to get a fat chick pregnant. I don't WANT 100 miles of Mexico; I WANT the illegal immigration, and loopholes, to end.

I agree that they have corrupt police, a corrupt govt etc...but it is also true that it is somthing the US supports since those things serve US purposes.

The history is there and the US intereferrence is there and well documented. Our inteferrence in their last election is also pretty telling and CERTAINLY violates all notions and concepts of self determination. If you REALLY want a solution to illegal immigration the best place to start is with our OWN govt and stop it from interferring in Mexicos politics in ALL WAYS. They will also have a long difficult road to travel, but the US needs to back off and back out so they can get to it.

Its EASY to see why the US interferres and why it has even MORE motivation to keep Mexico in check than it does numerous other latin american nations its done its dirty work to. Its common sense to recognize our interferrence there.

 

[Ruby]

Also, NAFTA dosent benefit mexico nor does it benefit america. It benefits some large corporate structures at the top end...and thats ALL it benefits.

There is another good way to help, get rid of all the free trade agreements, they dont benefit any of us.

 

[Shogun]

I agree that they have corrupt police, a corrupt govt etc...but it is also true that it is somthing the US supports since those things serve US purposes.
The history is there and the US intereferrence is there and well documented. Our inteferrence in their last election is also pretty telling and CERTAINLY violates all notions and concepts of self determination. If you REALLY want a solution to illegal immigration the best place to start is with our OWN govt and stop it from interferring in Mexicos politics in ALL WAYS. They will also have a long difficult road to travel, but the US needs to back off and back out so they can get to it.
Its EASY to see why the US interferres and why it has even MORE motivation to keep Mexico in check than it does numerous other latin american nations its done its dirty work to. Its common sense to recognize our interferrence there.

you tell me what you would do if you found out that a republican was taking bribes from any other foreign nation.. would you run to Mexico or would you take that bastard to task? Again, some decades old inference about CIA influence is NOT thereason Mexico is a shithole. It's not. WE are not the reason for the corruption. Sure, I can vote to keep my government's hands out of Mexico but, at the same time, ill be voting to seal off the southern border until Mexico can get its shit together. Stop blaming the US for shit that is not our fault. The right tears you up when you insist as much. MEXICO could give it's people more if it wanted to. It doesn't because they are just as susseptable to greed as anyone else and have allowed THEMSELVES to perpetuate a cycle where the poor remain poot and the wealthy remain wealthy. There ARE rich people in Mexico, Ruby. There IS money and resources tospread around. It's not our fault when they choose not to. Some CIA story is not the troll under the bridge standing in the way between Mexicos current shitty diaper and becoming a first world country. Why would Americans be humanistic when they are constantly being told that THEY are the reason Mexico is a shithole? It's bullshit, Ruby. Mexico doesn't allow illegals into their country any more than we should. By ignoring THEIR responsibility for THEIR own nation we are reinforcing negative behaviour and diminish the potential for American goodwill and humanitarianism.

 

[Shogun]

Also, NAFTA dosent benefit mexico nor does it benefit america. It benefits some large corporate structures at the top end...and thats ALL it benefits.

There is another good way to help, get rid of all the free trade agreements, they dont benefit any of us.

AGAIN, whose fault is that? How is it Americas fault that a benevolent gesture is being sopped up like gravy on a biscuit by corrupt as hell MEXICANS who are not interested in the general population? AMERICA broke up it's baby bells when they became a social liability. Did we run screaming to Canadia and sink their boat? no. Let MExico fix it's own broken self instead of projecting blame onto the very people they hope will accept them with open arms. We spilled our own blood to correct our own mistakes. Mexico can do the same thing and Mexicans who are here illegally that dont agree can suck my dick on their way out of the country.

 

[hjmick]

We have done the same to mexico as we have to the rest of latin america. We have interferred in their politics and backed only leaders who will do US bidding and use our might to defeat anyone who dare disagree. Our school of americas and mercenarys (death squads) are utilized in Mexico just as they are in other parts of the world as well.

Its not their "culture" that placed them in the position they are in...its US dominance in the region and our faulty idea that its OUR RIGHT to dictate to them and interferre (with deadly force when neccessary).

Honestly just consider the oil Mexico has and its not hard to realize why the US interferres.

http://texascivilrightsreview.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=680



http://www.aztlan.net/future_us_invasion_of_mexico.htm

and lets look at NED and USAID activity in Mexico.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/country/mexico/



Thats 33 million from just ONE of the agencies the US uses to interferre and corrupt peoples right to self-determine.

http://www.ned.org/grants/06programs/grants-lac06.html#mexico

You can choose mexico, they dont give a lump sum they just give various money amount to various "projects" and you can see them for yourself.

We are doing the SAME exact things to Mexico as we do to the rest and how lethal we get depends on how much they fight us.

There is also much evidence that Mexico suffered some of the same kind of voter tampering we had in the US (surprise surprise) and many legitimate voters were stripped of their right to vote and another SHOCK....they came from the poor districts and were believed to be more inclined to vote for the one the US govt wasnt backing.

You lost me when you linked to La Voz de Aztlan. Published and run by Nation of Aztlán. Nation of Aztlán is known to be just one of several groups interested in retaking the American Southwest. The Anti-defamation League has identified them as being anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, and homophobic.

The NOA has posted numerous anti-Semitic articles and editorials on its Web site, La Voz de Aztlan. Many of these articles allege Jewish control of the U.S. government (one described the Monica Lewinsky affair as a plot involving the Mossad and, by extension, Israel.) The NOA has exploited the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks to further extend its anti-Semitic and anti-Israel conspiracy theories.

As a rule, a person tends to lose credibility with me when they use a hate group to defend their argument.

 

[Ruby]

You lost me when you linked to La Voz de Aztlan. Published and run by Nation of Aztlán. Nation of Aztlán is known to be just one of several groups interested in retaking the American Southwest. The Anti-defamation League has identified them as being anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, and homophobic.

The NOA has posted numerous anti-Semitic articles and editorials on its Web site, La Voz de Aztlan. Many of these articles allege Jewish control of the U.S. government (one described the Monica Lewinsky affair as a plot involving the Mossad and, by extension, Israel.) The NOA has exploited the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks to further extend its anti-Semitic and anti-Israel conspiracy theories.

As a rule, a person tends to lose credibility with me when they use a hate group to defend their argument.

The article posted was written by one man

by
Professor Lorenzo Cano
University of Houston

No matter if you like the source or not, the article posted is factual. The claims I make are backed by FACTUAL evidence including our OWN government declassified documents. Those are the facts and fall out we are dealing with.

 

[Ruby]

AGAIN, whose fault is that? How is it Americas fault that a benevolent gesture is being sopped up like gravy on a biscuit by corrupt as hell MEXICANS who are not interested in the general population? AMERICA broke up it's baby bells when they became a social liability. Did we run screaming to Canadia and sink their boat? no. Let MExico fix it's own broken self instead of projecting blame onto the very people they hope will accept them with open arms. We spilled our own blood to correct our own mistakes. Mexico can do the same thing and Mexicans who are here illegally that dont agree can suck my dick on their way out of the country.

NAFTA is not a benevolent gesture.

I know they have an elite rich class there...those are the same ones that are quite quick to jump into bed with the US power brokers in our govt.

The fact is that we have interferred tremendously in their politics and we use our power and might to make sure they CANT self determine and fix things and we do this WITH the corrupt among the mexican population (as we do in other latin american nations as well).

Mexico can do much better at fixing itself when one of the world most powerful govts stops using its power and might to stop them from doing just that.

The illegal immigration is a symptom of that problem and you wont cure the symptom if you dont cure the cause.

 

[Ruby]

You lost me when you linked to La Voz de Aztlan. Published and run by Nation of Aztlán. Nation of Aztlán is known to be just one of several groups interested in retaking the American Southwest. The Anti-defamation League has identified them as being anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, and homophobic.

The NOA has posted numerous anti-Semitic articles and editorials on its Web site, La Voz de Aztlan. Many of these articles allege Jewish control of the U.S. government (one described the Monica Lewinsky affair as a plot involving the Mossad and, by extension, Israel.) The NOA has exploited the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks to further extend its anti-Semitic and anti-Israel conspiracy theories.

As a rule, a person tends to lose credibility with me when they use a hate group to defend their argument.

BTW, I am not all that impressed with the ADL themselves and I am also aware that anyone or any group/nation that shows any understanding or sympathy with the palestinians would also be labeled a hate group....they are quite biased themselves really.

 

[Shogun]

No, Ruby.. Im pretty sure that what you are talking about, even if totally factual, is not the fallout we are dealing with. Even if there is the barest correlation it's still a standard of living issue that brings them here. The CIA, even if influencing the Mexican government, is not FORCING the Mexican government to comply. Even if we ARE trying to be their puppetmaster THEY STILL ACCEPT IT RATHER THAN DO GOOD FOR MEXICO. Again, what woudl you do if you knew that some republican was being bought by a foreign nation and shitting on Americans for the sake of their personal wealth? More than what we see happening in Mexico, im sure.

and again, I would suggest not projecting blame for Mexico's failure as a nation onto America. It cripples the humanitarian arguement by making half of America defensive and unwilling to care about mexican humans.


At what point would you agree that America needs to step in and clean Mexico up so that their peoples stop being a burden on America?

 

[Shogun]

NAFTA is not a benevolent gesture.
I know they have an elite rich class there...those are the same ones that are quite quick to jump into bed with the US power brokers in our govt.
The fact is that we have interferred tremendously in their politic and we use our power and might to make sure they CANT self determine and fix things and we do this WITH the corrupt among the mexican population (as we do in other latin american nations as well).
Mexico can do much better at fixing itself when one of the world most powerful govts stops using its power and might to stop them from doing just that.
The illegal immigration is a symptom of that problem and you wont cure the symptom if you dont cure the cause.

It was sold to America as a benevolent gesture. Weather or not it has become as much is the very reason I am willing to use it in my hypotheticals.

And, Ill remind you that the thirteen colonies ALSO had a rich population that also agreed with the British Crown. Hell, Ben Franklins own estranged son was one. BUT, that didn't keep OUR nation from declaring itself. Liekwise, it makes no sense to pretend that Mexico is a helpless wounded animal that can't lick it's own wounds because, somehow, America stands in the way. That's rhetorical bullshit and makes for an easy target. When you say "WE USE OUR POWER TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CANT..." you will need to prvide evidence beyond what you will find on a Atzlan website. Illegal immigration is not CAUSED by America, Ruby. You might as well be making excuses for the fat kid stealing the candy bar he was told he cant have. Im a fair dude, Ruby. I understand the reactive nature of society and culture. However, pretending that Americans are the reason Mexico is a shithole where no one wants to be is not only way off but sets a dangerous pattern of thought to work. One that makes excuses for personal behaviour rather than hold accountable those who are really at the core: MEXICO

 

[Ruby]

No, Ruby.. Im pretty sure that what you are talking about, even if totally factual, is not the fallout we are dealing with. Even if there is the barest correlation it's still a standard of living issue that brings them here. The CIA, even if influencing the Mexican government, is not FORCING the Mexican government to comply. Even if we ARE trying to be their puppetmaster THEY STILL ACCEPT IT RATHER THAN DO GOOD FOR MEXICO. Again, what woudl you do if you knew that some republican was being bought by a foreign nation and shitting on Americans for the sake of their personal wealth? More than what we see happening in Mexico, im sure.

and again, I would suggest not projecting blame for Mexico's failure as a nation onto America. It cripples the humanitarian arguement by making half of America defensive and unwilling to care about mexican humans.


At what point would you agree that America needs to step in and clean Mexico up so that their peoples stop being a burden on America?

I dont think america has any responsiblity to step in and clean up mexico, it only has a responsiblity to STOP interferring in their policitcal process.

You ask a good question...what would I do if our own govt was being bought off by a foreign govt. I will answer, the same activism I do now! BUT, what if my life and my sons life were threatened? I honestly dont know, I might also try to run and save my sons life.

I also dont think people would stand up and rebel as you think they would in america.....people have a tendency to take a HUGE amount of shit before they really stand up and put their very LIVES and families lives on the lines.

In many ways we already have that problem to some degree but its not a nation as much as it is corporate business interests. We take that and allow our govt to place their needs above ours. We also take a good deal of money from lobby groups who represent Israels needs (and not ours) and due to this Israel is our NUMBER 1 recipient of US tax dollars and they get billions per year. I have definitely been an activist and tried to get that to stop, we shouldnt be accepting any monies from a group thats express purpose is a foreign nations interest.

I agree that ultimately they are going to have to fight the forces no matter how large and powerful those forces are but that dosent change our own responsiblity to control our own govt. We cant even seem to do that and yet we are asking them to do so much more arent we?

"They" dont accept it, they are threatened and coerced into it...there is a difference and we have to recognize it.

We can only control OUR role in it and thats what we need to focus on.

 

[hjmick]

BTW, I am not all that impressed with the ADL themselves and I am also aware that anyone or any group/nation that shows any understanding or sympathy with the palestinians would also be labeled a hate group....they are quite biased themselves really.

Yeah, they're biased against any group or person who go around expressing anti-semetic views, otherwise they pretty much ignore the rest of us.