Boy Scouts win right to remain in building they built

[Madeline]

 

[CurveLight]

Lots of people agree with your POV. Lots don't.

Have we now beaten this to death or not?

Now that I've proven via the BSA lawyers they don't pay rent and by the Lease the City doesn't even need a reason for eviction I'm sure some will gratefully agree with you. Fucking hypocrites got bitch slapped again and they go running and hiding.

 

[CurveLight]

Lots of people agree with your POV. Lots don't.

Have we now beaten this to death or not?

You kind of contradict yourself by continuing to post useless bullshit.

 

[del]

Holy fuck it's Nuclear Stoopidapalooza. The free ride on property owned by the government is their public funding you dumbass. Why don't you tell homeowners and renters to stop paying their mortgages and rents? When they get eviction notices you can file a lawsuit to stop the eviction and argue they are not receiving money from banks and landlords therefore they have no reason to be evicted.

Not free stupid. They've paid as agreed.

Just because you don't like the amount, does not mean that they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain...so...

1. They have paid as agreed.
and
2. They have not received public funding.

You may now circle back around and begin the same argument again, like you always do.

No, Radioman, a dollar a year is what the law regards as a "peppercorn". It is a meaningless gesture insofar as payment is concerned. I'd be shocked if the Boy Scout's lawyers had tried to argue this.

And for the record, payment in kind is just as much government support as payment in cash. Goods and services have value and that value can be measured.

they have a lease in perpetuity at a $1/year.

this is what the law regards as a *contract*.

pretty basic stuff; do try to keep up.

 

[del]

Mebbe the case was wrongly decided. But nonetheless, decided it is and unless appealed, that's the end of it.

I see the BSA wants to pursue a suit against the city for their legal fees. At least they are consistent in wanting taxpayers to pay the bills the BSA decides they should pay.

The case was wrongly decided based mostly on emotion and I still don't know how a former Eagle Scout made it as foreman of the jury.

My position is any group that discriminates should not be afforded public subsidizing in any form. A loss of revenue for a City is a loss no matter how it's phrased and if groups want to discriminate within the confines of their Private organization then damn it, be Private and pay your own way. If you want public assistance then play by the Public rules.

you tell em, swervy, you tell 'em.

 

[Madeline]

Not free stupid. They've paid as agreed.

Just because you don't like the amount, does not mean that they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain...so...

1. They have paid as agreed.
and
2. They have not received public funding.

You may now circle back around and begin the same argument again, like you always do.

No, Radioman, a dollar a year is what the law regards as a "peppercorn". It is a meaningless gesture insofar as payment is concerned. I'd be shocked if the Boy Scout's lawyers had tried to argue this.

And for the record, payment in kind is just as much government support as payment in cash. Goods and services have value and that value can be measured.

they have a lease in perpetuity at a $1/year.

this is what the law regards as a *contract*.

pretty basic stuff; do try to keep up.

del, mebbe so. I have not read everything connected with this case. However, there is no contract (in general) unless each side gives the other consideration. One dollar is not "consideration" for property in downtown Philadelphia. IMO, the exchange originally was intended as, and is best viewed as, an irrevocable gift.

There may be some wrinkle in PA real estate law that alters this, but I kinda sorta doubt that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're missing my point. A common argument against gays is they would be too close to young boys but since the clear majority of pedophiles are self professed heteros it means that line of reasoning is based on bullshit.

It actually isn't, even it it is outdated it is based on the fact that quite a few of the early homosexual activists also advocated NAMBLA. It wasn't until the 80s that Gay Pride groups started banning NAMBLA from participating in events they sponsored.

Outdated? Wtf you talking about? Do I really need to waste the time to post the links showing a common reason bigots are against gays in the BSA is the accusation of being too close to young boys?

Be my guest, if it makes you feel better why should I object. It still would not change my point that the accusation is not based on the history between gay activists and NAMBLA which lasted into the 90s. If you actually want to discuss my post we could have a conversation, and you might actually learn some history and perhaps even a little more about English.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Many slaveowners owned slaves indefinitely so by your argument owning slaves should not have stopped after doing so was illegal because they had indefinite contracts of ownership.

Let's see how you try to dance away from that one.

You show me a slave that signed a contract to be a slave and I'll show you one dumb sumbitch.


I guess that makes me Fred Astaire

Holy shitballs you are a fucking loser. Why do bigots like you love dishonesty so damn much? Oh thass right. Without it you'd have to not post 94% of the time. Slave owners had contracts recognized by the State that said they owned their slaves indefinitely so by your argument owning slaves should not have stopped after doing so was illegal because they had indefinite contracts of ownership.

What they had, if anything, was a bill of sale. I will freely admit to not being a lawyer, but my understanding is that a bill of sale is essentially a receipt, not a contract.

 

[Father Time]

They should not have to pay rent since they did pay for the building, but the lesson the boy scouts are teaching the children is wrong. My son will never be in the Boy Scouts.

Horrible lesson.

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.



Awful. Just awful stuff.

You think bigotry is an acceptable lesson?

 

[Againsheila]

All that is likely true, Againshelia. But it doesn't change the fact that the values they teach include intolerance based upon ignorance. For many parents, including me, that would be a deal breaker.

What, because they have to say they believe in God? What's wrong with that? You don't believe in God, don't join. The gay thing is a red herring. I never ran into the situation in the 3 years I was a leader. We never talked about it, never referred to it. We never went around asking the boys "Do you like boys or girls?" and then kicking them out if they gave the wrong answer. As for the leaders, we were required to have TWO at every meeting to make sure there was no inappropriate behavior by any of the leaders. We taught them how to care for the elderly, making gifts and doing Christmas Carols at the local nursing home. We taught them how to care for the poor, collecting food for the food bank door to door. We taught them how to make little racing cars that they could race. We taught them archery. We taught them to respect the flag, and the meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance. We taught them how to use a pocket knife, and the rules that went along with having a pocket knife. Yeah, it's a horrible organization. Good thing you wouldn't let your kids join.

You may criticisize my parenting if you like, Againshelia. It was extremely important to me that my kid grow up to be an adult free of bigotry. If it was less important to you, and you valued other things more, I'm good with that.

My sons have grown up free of bigotry, in a family with people of all races AND sexual orientation. In a home where ALL are welcome, where we have taken in the homeless, where other kids with lousy mothers came to stay because they couldn't stand it at their own homes. They learned all about autism and disability along with tolerance. All this, and boy scouts too.....what a shame.

The only kids who've lost out here, are the ones that weren't allowed to join the Boy Scouts because they MIGHT learn prejudice. Like they don't learn that in the public schools anyway.

 

[ConHog]

They should not have to pay rent since they did pay for the building, but the lesson the boy scouts are teaching the children is wrong. My son will never be in the Boy Scouts.

Horrible lesson.

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.



Awful. Just awful stuff.

You think bigotry is an acceptable lesson?

Yes I sure do, and here is why. This is the USA, you have a right to be a bigot. I love how people hide behind the COTUS unless it is protecting a right you don't agree with. The MOST important rights to defend are those we don't agree with because you definitely want someone defending YOUR rights if the time comes that you need them defended.


It is a religious issue with the Scouts, you do NOT have the right to dictate their religious views to them.

And I will ask again for the 50th time in this thread. Knowing full well that the Scouts want nothing to do with gays, why would a gay want to join? Other than just to stir up the shit?

 

[Againsheila]

They should not have to pay rent since they did pay for the building, but the lesson the boy scouts are teaching the children is wrong. My son will never be in the Boy Scouts.

Horrible lesson.

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.



Awful. Just awful stuff.

You think bigotry is an acceptable lesson?

Where was the bigotry in that oath?

 

[ConHog]

Horrible lesson.

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.



Awful. Just awful stuff.

You think bigotry is an acceptable lesson?

Where was the bigotry in that oath?

Don't be silly. The truth is they hate God and so any organization that purports Christian values must be destroyed.

 

[CurveLight]

It actually isn't, even it it is outdated it is based on the fact that quite a few of the early homosexual activists also advocated NAMBLA. It wasn't until the 80s that Gay Pride groups started banning NAMBLA from participating in events they sponsored.

Outdated? Wtf you talking about? Do I really need to waste the time to post the links showing a common reason bigots are against gays in the BSA is the accusation of being too close to young boys?

Be my guest, if it makes you feel better why should I object. It still would not change my point that the accusation is not based on the history between gay activists and NAMBLA which lasted into the 90s. If you actually want to discuss my post we could have a conversation, and you might actually learn some history and perhaps even a little more about English.

I never said it is based on the history between gay activists and nambla. Holy fuck. And you're trying to preach about learning english? For the last time: many homophobes have falsely accused gays as being pedophiles as a reason to not let gays in the BSA. Please read that again.

 

[Father Time]

Are you sure you're not blonde? The Boy Scouts is one of the best organizations for youth in the world. Boys who have been boyscout have better grades in school, slimmer chances of committing crimes, and many other things I've forgotten since I was a cubscout leader.

All that is likely true, Againshelia. But it doesn't change the fact that the values they teach include intolerance based upon ignorance. For many parents, including me, that would be a deal breaker.

What, because they have to say they believe in God? What's wrong with that?

You honestly think there's nothing wrong with religious discrimination?

 

[CurveLight]

You think bigotry is an acceptable lesson?

Where was the bigotry in that oath?

Don't be silly. The truth is they hate God and so any organization that purports Christian values must be destroyed.

Rotfl! Gotta go with Poe's Law on this one.

 

[CurveLight]

What, because they have to say they believe in God? What's wrong with that? You don't believe in God, don't join. The gay thing is a red herring. I never ran into the situation in the 3 years I was a leader. We never talked about it, never referred to it. We never went around asking the boys "Do you like boys or girls?" and then kicking them out if they gave the wrong answer. As for the leaders, we were required to have TWO at every meeting to make sure there was no inappropriate behavior by any of the leaders. We taught them how to care for the elderly, making gifts and doing Christmas Carols at the local nursing home. We taught them how to care for the poor, collecting food for the food bank door to door. We taught them how to make little racing cars that they could race. We taught them archery. We taught them to respect the flag, and the meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance. We taught them how to use a pocket knife, and the rules that went along with having a pocket knife. Yeah, it's a horrible organization. Good thing you wouldn't let your kids join.

You may criticisize my parenting if you like, Againshelia. It was extremely important to me that my kid grow up to be an adult free of bigotry. If it was less important to you, and you valued other things more, I'm good with that.

My sons have grown up free of bigotry, in a family with people of all races AND sexual orientation. In a home where ALL are welcome, where we have taken in the homeless, where other kids with lousy mothers came to stay because they couldn't stand it at their own homes. They learned all about autism and disability along with tolerance. All this, and boy scouts too.....what a shame.

The only kids who've lost out here, are the ones that weren't allowed to join the Boy Scouts because they MIGHT learn prejudice. Like they don't learn that in the public schools anyway.

The only way you could have kids free of bigotry is if you adopted some 17 year olds who weren't raised by you.

 

[Father Time]

Horrible lesson.

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.



Awful. Just awful stuff.

You think bigotry is an acceptable lesson?

Yes I sure do, and here is why. This is the USA, you have a right to be a bigot.

You have the right to stick hot coals in your eyes it doesn't make it a good idea.

The BSA is still acting like scumbags for their bigotry.

I love how people hide behind the COTUS unless it is protecting a right you don't agree with.

Point me to the part where I said they don't have the right to do this.

And I will ask again for the 50th time in this thread. Knowing full well that the Scouts want nothing to do with gays, why would a gay want to join? Other than just to stir up the shit?

You don't see any good reason to want to be in Scouts.

 

[CurveLight]

Not free stupid. They've paid as agreed.

Just because you don't like the amount, does not mean that they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain...so...

1. They have paid as agreed.
and
2. They have not received public funding.

You may now circle back around and begin the same argument again, like you always do.

No, Radioman, a dollar a year is what the law regards as a "peppercorn". It is a meaningless gesture insofar as payment is concerned. I'd be shocked if the Boy Scout's lawyers had tried to argue this.

And for the record, payment in kind is just as much government support as payment in cash. Goods and services have value and that value can be measured.

they have a lease in perpetuity at a $1/year.

this is what the law regards as a *contract*.

pretty basic stuff; do try to keep up.

As I've already linked.....even the BSA lawyers admit they are there rent free and according the terms of the lease the City doesn't even need to give a reason for an eviction. Philly has been really gracious considering the Law is clearly on their side but you go ahead and ignore the facts. Again.

 

[Againsheila]

All that is likely true, Againshelia. But it doesn't change the fact that the values they teach include intolerance based upon ignorance. For many parents, including me, that would be a deal breaker.

What, because they have to say they believe in God? What's wrong with that?

You honestly think there's nothing wrong with religious discrimination?

so, discriminating against Atheists, is religious discrimination? Then you admit atheism is a religion?