Boycott Israel

[P F Tinmore]

Do you mean like working for someone else on your own farm?

You mean like the Ottoman land system?

Indeed, the Ottomans had a land rights system. The "West" has a land ownership system. You are always talking apples and oranges trying to conform one system to the other.

Interesting question, though. Virtually all of Palestinian cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire. Who were the owners then? How did the Ottomans and its rich friends get to "own" that land?

Have you ever heard of the word EMPIRE?
Do you know what the word Empire means?
Are you sure that ALL the Arab villages predate the take over by the Ottoman Empire?

I would love to see the documentation on it.
As we know, the Ottomans, and then the British, kept records of a lot of things.



By the way, Hevron and Sfad were not Arab villages. But became such after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews from them.

Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem was not an Arab Quarter. It is now, after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews in 1948.

You pick and choose.

It is ARABS, and not Palestinians, who lived amongst the indigenous Jews during the Ottoman Empire.

I did not say all villages. And I did not mentioned Arabs. That is not relevant.

Surely there were newer villages but that dos not change the status of older villages.

What are you trying to imply here?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jews only owned about 7% of Palestine by 1947.

Private ownership is NOT sovereignty. Private Arab ownership was NOT the other 93%. And you know it.

Private property ownership does not remove that lands from the country's sovereignty. Jews own land in the the US but it is still US land.

Any land privately owned in Palestine does not remove that land from Palestinian sovereignty which is collectively owned by its citizens.

Few Arabs and Turks owned lands in the Ottoman Empire. They did not have sovereignty over the whole land. It "belonged" to the Ottomans.
Because they said so.
And the Ottomans started selling some of that land from 1850 on.
Poor Arabs remained poor and simply worked for the owners of the lands which were bought.
If those owners chose to sell the land to Jews, it was their right to do so.
The Arabs farming for their previous owners, continued to farm for the new Jewish owners.

BUT, mostly, the Jews bought Arab owned lands where no one lived, like swamps (pre Tel-Aviv) or deserts. Or went to live in Hebron or Jerusalem, etc.

There was NO SUCH THING as Palestinian Sovereignty, as there was no such people know as Palestinians BEFORE the Mandate for Palestine, where ALL of those now living on the land became known as Palestinians, until Israel was created.

Few Arabs and Turks owned lands in the Ottoman Empire. They did not have sovereignty over the whole land. It "belonged" to the Ottomans.

The land was ceded to Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

 

[P F Tinmore]

UN takes first concrete step to hold Israel accountable for violating Palestinian human rights

September 27, 2017 — Today’s media reports revealed that the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights began sending letters two weeks ago to 150 companies in Israel and around the globe, warning them that they could be added to a database of complicit companies doing business in illegal Israeli settlements based in the occupied Palestinian West Bank, including East Jerusalem.

The letters reminded these companies that their operations in and with illegal Israeli settlements are in violation of “international law and in opposition of UN resolutions.” They also requested that these companies respond with clarifications about such operations.

According to senior Israeli officials, some of the companies have already responded to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights by saying they won't renew their contracts or sign new ones in Israel. “This could turn into a snowball,” worried an Israeli official.

UN Takes First Concrete Step To Hold Israel Accountable For Violating Palestinian Human Rights

From the article:

But if implemented properly, this UN database of companies that are complicit in some of Israel's human rights violations may augur the beginning of the end of Israel's criminal impunity.

So the mere presence of Jewish people in certain places is a human rights violation?

Selling water to communities is a human rights violation?


What is the goal here? To make Area C so inhospitable that no one wants to live there? Do you really think that is going to work? All those businesses will suddenly stop supplying, well, anything to the people in Area C and they will all pack up and move back behind the Green Line? You're nuts if you think that is what is going to happen. You'll just force Israel to annex it.

Hmmmm. Not a bad idea. Then extradite all non-Israeli citizens. And make a real solid border. Oh looky! Instant Palestinian State. Israel should even recognize it at that point. Then they will have the choice to go the way of Gaza -- a violent takeover of the extremists and all the funding going to support terror instead of people's needs OR they could, you know, actually build a viable State.

So the mere presence of Jewish people in certain places is a human rights violation?

I never said that.

You are sooooo confused.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Do you mean like working for someone else on your own farm?

You mean like the Ottoman land system?

Indeed, the Ottomans had a land rights system. The "West" has a land ownership system. You are always talking apples and oranges trying to conform one system to the other.

Interesting question, though. Virtually all of Palestinian cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire. Who were the owners then? How did the Ottomans and its rich friends get to "own" that land?

Have you ever heard of the word EMPIRE?
Do you know what the word Empire means?
Are you sure that ALL the Arab villages predate the take over by the Ottoman Empire?

I would love to see the documentation on it.
As we know, the Ottomans, and then the British, kept records of a lot of things.



By the way, Hevron and Sfad were not Arab villages. But became such after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews from them.

Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem was not an Arab Quarter. It is now, after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews in 1948.

You pick and choose.

It is ARABS, and not Palestinians, who lived amongst the indigenous Jews during the Ottoman Empire.

I did not say all villages. And I did not mentioned Arabs. That is not relevant.

Surely there were newer villages but that dos not change the status of older villages.

What are you trying to imply here?

You are not mentioning Arabs?
All the non Jews, they are all Arabs, you like it or not, understand it or not.

I am implying, no, actually I have said it many times but you do not like the facts........

The Palestinians you are defending as native, indigenous people of the land always have been ARABS, like their ancestors or from other Arab clans who invaded the Jewish Homeland in the 7th Century.

That is all

 

[Sixties Fan]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

Read, once and for all, THE MANDATE FOR PALESTINE

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do you mean like working for someone else on your own farm?

You mean like the Ottoman land system?

Indeed, the Ottomans had a land rights system. The "West" has a land ownership system. You are always talking apples and oranges trying to conform one system to the other.

Interesting question, though. Virtually all of Palestinian cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire. Who were the owners then? How did the Ottomans and its rich friends get to "own" that land?

Have you ever heard of the word EMPIRE?
Do you know what the word Empire means?
Are you sure that ALL the Arab villages predate the take over by the Ottoman Empire?

I would love to see the documentation on it.
As we know, the Ottomans, and then the British, kept records of a lot of things.



By the way, Hevron and Sfad were not Arab villages. But became such after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews from them.

Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem was not an Arab Quarter. It is now, after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews in 1948.

You pick and choose.

It is ARABS, and not Palestinians, who lived amongst the indigenous Jews during the Ottoman Empire.

I did not say all villages. And I did not mentioned Arabs. That is not relevant.

Surely there were newer villages but that dos not change the status of older villages.

What are you trying to imply here?

You are not mentioning Arabs?
All the non Jews, they are all Arabs, you like it or not, understand it or not.

I am implying, no, actually I have said it many times but you do not like the facts........

The Palestinians you are defending as native, indigenous people of the land always have been ARABS, like their ancestors or from other Arab clans who invaded the Jewish Homeland in the 7th Century.

That is all

Whatever they were they became Palestinian citizens by international law, the Treaty of Lausanne, and domestic law.

Why are you trying to confuse the issue?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

Read, once and for all, THE MANDATE FOR PALESTINE

I have.

ART. 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

 

[Sixties Fan]

You mean like the Ottoman land system?

Indeed, the Ottomans had a land rights system. The "West" has a land ownership system. You are always talking apples and oranges trying to conform one system to the other.

Interesting question, though. Virtually all of Palestinian cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire. Who were the owners then? How did the Ottomans and its rich friends get to "own" that land?

Have you ever heard of the word EMPIRE?
Do you know what the word Empire means?
Are you sure that ALL the Arab villages predate the take over by the Ottoman Empire?

I would love to see the documentation on it.
As we know, the Ottomans, and then the British, kept records of a lot of things.



By the way, Hevron and Sfad were not Arab villages. But became such after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews from them.

Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem was not an Arab Quarter. It is now, after the Hashemites kicked all the Jews in 1948.

You pick and choose.

It is ARABS, and not Palestinians, who lived amongst the indigenous Jews during the Ottoman Empire.

I did not say all villages. And I did not mentioned Arabs. That is not relevant.

Surely there were newer villages but that dos not change the status of older villages.

What are you trying to imply here?

You are not mentioning Arabs?
All the non Jews, they are all Arabs, you like it or not, understand it or not.

I am implying, no, actually I have said it many times but you do not like the facts........

The Palestinians you are defending as native, indigenous people of the land always have been ARABS, like their ancestors or from other Arab clans who invaded the Jewish Homeland in the 7th Century.

That is all

Whatever they were they became Palestinian citizens by international law, the Treaty of Lausanne, and domestic law.

Why are you trying to confuse the issue?

Except that until 1964 the Arabs did not want to become "Palestinians".
They considered themselves Syrians, and wanted to be a part of Greater Syria.
And during the Mandate for Palestine, the Arabs did not call themselves Palestinians at all.

The "Nationality" of being Palestinians, only became used after 1964 when Arafat and the KGB came up with that plan to help destroy Israel.
-------

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

Palestinian Myths

---------
Believe what you wish. The Mandate being called Palestine, did not create a Nationality called Palestinian, for Jews or for Arabs.

And the Arabs never wanted to be "Palestinians".

Arabs belong to one Nation, and one Nation only.

The Arab Nation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Except that until 1964 the Arabs did not want to become "Palestinians".

So fucking what?

You did not read the 1948 Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

Read, once and for all, THE MANDATE FOR PALESTINE

I have.

ART. 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

You do not find it odd that article7 mentions Jews, but not Arabs?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Except that until 1964 the Arabs did not want to become "Palestinians".

So fucking what.

You did not read the 1948 Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

Getting testy, are you?

What part of the 1948 "Palestinian" Declaration of Independence, known as Israel, would you like me to read?

Or is there any other 1948 Declaration of Independence the UN is not aware of?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

Read, once and for all, THE MANDATE FOR PALESTINE

I have.

ART. 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

You do not find it odd that article7 mentions Jews, but not Arabs?

It did not mentioned Arabs because it was irrelevant. All other Palestinians already had citizenship.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

Read, once and for all, THE MANDATE FOR PALESTINE

I have.

ART. 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

You do not find it odd that article7 mentions Jews, but not Arabs?

It did not mentioned Arabs because it was irrelevant. All other Palestinians already had citizenship.

What other Palestinians ?

You attempt to separate the Arabs from the Palestinians. You cannot.

You fail to read all of the Mandate of Palestine, which was primarily for the recreation of the sovereign Jewish Nation on the Historical Jewish Homeland.

There are no Jews, Arabs and "Other" Palestinians.

Once the Mandate took effect, ALL living or migrating into that Mandate became known as Palestinians.

The sad part of all of this, as usual, is that you rewrite all which is written according to how you wish others to understand it, and not what it actually says.

The Mandate for Palestine was exclusively, at first, until 1937, for the recreation of the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish homeland, with all other inhabitants continuing to live on the land, but UNDER Jewish sovereignty.


Change it all you like, that is how it was until the British gave in, again and again to Arab violence. ARABS.

Arabs have not changed ethnicity, then or now.

They were and always will be Arabs, who primarily belong to a Nation called ARAB, which exists in Arabia.

Arab Christians or Muslims, too many are taught to hate Jews, that they are superior to Jews, that they must NEVER lose any land to Jews.

And so, the Palestinians were born, to destroy Israel. To kill Jews without any consequences.

The only one you keep fooling is yourself.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Except that until 1964 the Arabs did not want to become "Palestinians".

So fucking what.

You did not read the 1948 Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

Getting testy, are you?

What part of the 1948 "Palestinian" Declaration of Independence, known as Israel, would you like me to read?

Or is there any other 1948 Declaration of Independence the UN is not aware of?

A All-Palestine National Council was convened in Gaza on 30 September 1948 under the chairmanship of Amin al-Husayni. The council passed a series of resolutions culminating on 1 October 1948 with a declaration of independence over the whole of Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital.

After Israel began a counter-offensive on the southern front on 15 October 1948, the All-Palestine Government was quickly recognized by six of the then seven members of the Arab League: Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen, but not by Transjordan.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia
-------------

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY

Who Are The Palestinians?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Except that until 1964 the Arabs did not want to become "Palestinians".

So fucking what.

You did not read the 1948 Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

Getting testy, are you?

What part of the 1948 "Palestinian" Declaration of Independence, known as Israel, would you like me to read?

Or is there any other 1948 Declaration of Independence the UN is not aware of?

A All-Palestine National Council was convened in Gaza on 30 September 1948 under the chairmanship of Amin al-Husayni. The council passed a series of resolutions culminating on 1 October 1948 with a declaration of independence over the whole of Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital.

After Israel began a counter-offensive on the southern front on 15 October 1948, the All-Palestine Government was quickly recognized by six of the then seven members of the Arab League: Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen, but not by Transjordan.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia
-------------

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY

Who Are The Palestinians?

That meeting has no meaning at all.

You know why?

Because the Arabs during the Mandate for Palestine did not accept the Peel Partition of 1937, or the UN Partition of 1947.

This nonsense you found as proof of "Independence" is not worth anything.
It was done after Israel declared Independence in May of 1948 and the Arab countries invaded it the next day wanting to destroy it.

Pay attention to the language. It says ALL OF PALESTINE, meaning what was left of the Mandate after the British gave the Hashemite ARABS 78% of the Jewish Homeland in 1922.

You do not like that the Arabs are THIEVES, but that is what they are, whether you are an Arab Christian or any other Christian.

ARABS ARE THIEVES.

 

[Shusha]

I never said that.

You are sooooo confused.

Sigh. The article says that the companies are complicit in Israel's human rights violations. What human rights violations? That Jewish people live in Area C -- an area which by treaty (and again, that means by international law) is under the full civil and military control of Israel?

 

[Shusha]

The land was ceded to Palestine.

The land was ceded to the Jewish people for the purpose of creating a Jewish national homeland.

Link?

Really? I know you are not ignorant about the legal instruments pertaining to the conflict. And I know you have read my posts dozens of times. And I know you know that I am going to post the preamble and Article 2 and Article 4 and Article 5 and Article 6 and Article 7 of the Mandate for Palestine at the least. And I know you know I have more.

So, this is a diversion, and a rejection of reality. The request for "links" is nothing more than a refusal to discuss the topic with intelligence and reason.

 

[Shusha]

I have.

ART. 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

Do you not realize what that Article means? It means that ALL those "European Jews" and "Zionists" are not foreigners or invaders or colonizers. They are citizens of Palestine (which is the homeland for the Jewish people and now called Israel). It means there is no such thing as "settlers".