BREAKING: Dozens dead in India terrorist attack

[editec]

As far as I know, the terrorists made no demands.

They clearly came to kill people and die in the process.

This movement -- call it Alqada if we must, but I doubt there's a direct connection between these so called cells, it's more a philosophical connection I suspect -- is a threat to every national government and every people of every nation regardless of their religion.

I do not think these terrorists really represent the mindset of most Islamic people.

They seem to be killing more Moslems than non-moslems worldwide.

They kill people in Moslem nations and non-Moslem nations, too.

I suspect their complaints are homegrown, but they are using worldwide Jihad as their excuse.

The real question I want answered is: where are they getting their money and arms to pull off these events?

It cannot be cheap to do this kind of pointless slaughter.

Were I fighting terrorism I'd be seriously trying to follow the money.

Where did these guys, for example, get the arms and money to pull this off?

We've got to start thinking about fighting this kind of problem like we fight organized crime.

The War on Terrorism model doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Annie]

Editec, from my readings over the past 7 years or so, it seems the US has been very effective at drying up the money that flowed from the US to terrorists. The trial last week about money going to Hamas being the latest example. However, it seems that some 'allies' have been dropping the ball, especially if their internal populations are a problem:

Report: Terrorists relying on informal cash networks; old financial controls less effective

 

[DavidS]

As far as I know, the terrorists made no demands.

They clearly came to kill people and die in the process.

This movement -- call it Alqada if we must, but I doubt there's a direct connection between these so called cells, it's more a philosophical connection I suspect -- is a threat to every national government and every people of every nation regardless of their religion.

I do not think these terrorists really represent the mindset of most Islamic people.

They seem to be killing more Moslems than non-moslems worldwide.

They kill people in Moslem nations and non-Moslem nations, too.

I suspect their complaints are homegrown, but they are using worldwide Jihad as their excuse.

The real question I want answered is: where are they getting their money and arms to pull off these events?

It cannot be cheap to do this kind of pointless slaughter.

Were I fighting terrorism I'd be seriously trying to follow the money.

Where did these guys, for example, get the arms and money to pull this off?

We've got to start thinking about fighting this kind of problem like we fight organized crime.

The War on Terrorism model doesn't seem to be working.

An operation like this must have cost a pretty penny. Giving these guys weapons training, buying the guns, getting them inside of the Taj Hotel for weeks to get to know the layout... something like this must have cost a fortune and could not have been financed by anyone other than a government or someone who makes a lot of money from the government.

 

[Annie]

An operation like this must have cost a pretty penny. Giving these guys weapons training, buying the guns, getting them inside of the Taj Hotel for weeks to get to know the layout... something like this must have cost a fortune and could not have been financed by anyone other than a government or someone who makes a lot of money from the government.

Seems the US had already tried to freeze the assets of one of the suspected groups in India:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29intel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

November 29, 2008
U.S. Intelligence Focuses on Pakistani Group

By MARK MAZZETTI and SALMAN MASOOD
WASHINGTON — American intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Friday that there was mounting evidence that a Pakistani militant group based in Kashmir, most likely Lashkar-e-Taiba, was responsible for this week’s deadly attacks in Mumbai.

The officials cautioned that they had reached no firm conclusions about who was responsible for the attacks, or how they were planned and carried out. Nevertheless, they said that evidence gathered in the past two days pointed to a role for Lashkar-e-Taiba or possibly another group based in Kashmir, Jaish-e-Muhammad, which also has a track record of attacks against India....

...Officials in Washington said Friday that there was no evidence that the Pakistani government had any role in the attacks. But if evidence were to emerge that the operation had been planned and directed from within Pakistan, that would certainly further escalate tensions between India and Pakistan, bitter, nuclear-armed rivals. It could also provoke an Indian military response, even strikes against militants’ training camps.

American and Indian officials were pursuing the possibility that the attackers arrived off the coast of Mumbai in a large ship and then boarded smaller boats before initiating their attack.

An American counterterrorism official said there was strong evidence that Lashkar-e-Taiba had a “maritime capability” and would have been able to mount the sophisticated operation in Mumbai.

Senior Bush administration officials sought to keep the tensions from boiling over on Friday by maintaining steady contact with Indian officials. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke by phone with Pranab Mukherjee, India’s foreign minister, and one of Ms. Rice’s deputies spoke with the Indian foreign secretary.

In what was seen as a sign of Pakistan’s concern about a possible Indian response, Pakistani officials announced Friday that the head of the I.S.I. would go to India to help the Indian government with its investigation. On Friday evening, however, Pakistani officials indicated that a lower-level I.S.I. representative might make the trip.

American and Indian officials have for years blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for a campaign of violence against high-profile targets throughout India, including the December 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and an August 2007 strike at an amusement park in Hyderabad. At times, Indian officials have also said Jaish-e-Muhammad was responsible for the attack on Parliament.

That attack prompted the Bush administration to try to freeze Lashkar-e-Taiba’s assets and press Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s president at the time, to crack down on the group’s training operations in Pakistan.

A State Department report released this year called Lashkar-e-Taiba “one of the largest and most proficient of the Kashmiri-focused militant groups.” The report said that the group drew financing in part from Pakistani expatriates in the Middle East, and that it used a front organization called Jamaat ud-Daawa to coordinate charitable activities, like relief for the victims of the October 2006 earthquake in Kashmir....

 

[DavidS]

Seems the US had already tried to freeze the assets of one of the suspected groups in India:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29intel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Oh gee, Pakistan not doing enough to curb its own terrorists. Why does this story sound familiar to me?

 

[Annie]

Oh gee, Pakistan not doing enough to curb its own terrorists. Why does this story sound familiar to me?

That country, among others was the point of the earlier link.

 

[Lycurgus]

An operation like this must have cost a pretty penny. Giving these guys weapons training, buying the guns, getting them inside of the Taj Hotel for weeks to get to know the layout... something like this must have cost a fortune and could not have been financed by anyone other than a government or someone who makes a lot of money from the government.

David, I think most of us would be surprised at how some of these groups are funded and how much of a bank roll they have. Everything from governments supporting them, to you and I if we purchase something at the right store!

 

[Annie]

Seems that if the Indian authorities are correct about the boat the terrorists landed with, it was pirated. Interesting, no? about all the pirate stories lately? Could be a source.

 

[editec]

Seems that if the Indian authorities are correct about the boat the terrorists landed with, it was pirated. Interesting, no? about all the pirate stories lately? Could be a source.

Piracy on the high seas in the 21st century.

Simply amazing.

You folks do know that the Somali pirates have siezed "nearly 40" ships thus far, don't you?

Yeah, the "nearly 40" is a wierd number, isn't it? You mean like 38 or 39?

FOX news didn't bother to tell us...nearly fourty is the best info I have on this issue.

But pirates operating out of a failed nation so effectively that they can threaten international shipping near the straights of Hormuz?

I find that damned near impossible to understand.

How much money does the WEst pay collectively for our Navies?

And we cannot stop Somali pirates?

Does anyone besides myself find this rather unbelievable?

Why CAN'T our nation states crush these pirates?

I cannot believe there's any political, international, or military reason for us not to have long ago ended this piracy, folks.

I believe that those pirates continued existence is being allowed to happen.

 

[Sunni Man]

Actually, the number is 97 as of yesterday.

 

[Xenophon]

Indian forces take back financial capital after 60-hour attacks kill 195 — including 6 Americans.

Can't post URLs, sorry.

 

[DavidS]

Piracy on the high seas in the 21st century.

Simply amazing.

You folks do know that the Somali pirates have siezed "nearly 40" ships thus far, don't you?

Yeah, the "nearly 40" is a wierd number, isn't it? You mean like 38 or 39?

FOX news didn't bother to tell us...nearly fourty is the best info I have on this issue.

But pirates operating out of a failed nation so effectively that they can threaten international shipping near the straights of Hormuz?

I find that damned near impossible to understand.

How much money does the WEst pay collectively for our Navies?

And we cannot stop Somali pirates?

Does anyone besides myself find this rather unbelievable?

Why CAN'T our nation states crush these pirates?

I cannot believe there's any political, international, or military reason for us not to have long ago ended this piracy, folks.

I believe that those pirates continued existence is being allowed to happen.

We have the most technologically advanced Navy in the world. We went to war in World War 1 due to sinking of the Lucitania. Why don't we declare war on these pirates and send a fleet of American warships over there and destroy them? Our Navy could use the target practice as I doubt these pirates have any sophisticated weapons.

 

[Annie]

On the boat and Pakistan links:

Focus on abandoned boat as Mumbai seige ends - CNN.com

MUMBAI, India (CNN) -- As investigators work to unmask the group responsible for the Mumbai terror attacks which have killed at least 183 people, police and soldiers continued to search the Taj Mahal Hotel room by room Saturday to make sure all trapped guests have left and no terrorists remain hidden.


An Indian commando leaves the Taj Mahal Hotel after battling the terrorists.
1 of 3more photos »

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari pledged his country's full cooperation with the investigation and vowed to take "the strictest action" if it is found the terrorists were based in Pakistan.

However, investigators probing the attacks said they found cell phones and a global navigational device on an abandoned boat floating off the coast of Mumbai, CNN's sister station CNN-IBN reported.

The television station showed photographs of a phone's log which showed calls had been placed to Jalalabad in Pakistan.

The boat, intelligence officials told CNN-IBN, had been hijacked. Four crew members who had been on board were missing. The captain was found dead, lying face down with his hands bound behind his back....

 

[DavidS]

On the boat and Pakistan links:

Focus on abandoned boat as Mumbai seige ends - CNN.com

There are deep Pakistani ties here. Just how deep and how far up the ladder these ties go.... phew. It's scary to think what could happen.

 

[editec]

We have the most technologically advanced Navy in the world. We went to war in World War 1 due to sinking of the Lucitania. Why don't we declare war on these pirates and send a fleet of American warships over there and destroy them? Our Navy could use the target practice as I doubt these pirates have any sophisticated weapons.

Ah, yeah.

So, given that, doesn't that make us wonder why that has not ALREADY happened?

I mean if not the USA, then why hasn't some other nation done it?

You see? This is why some of us become conspiracy theorists.

We cannot BELIEVE that our governments can possibly be so incompetent as they so often appear to be.

And if you assume, as in this case, that there is no reason for why d3aling with these pirates has not already been done, then it isn't much a stretch to begin imagining that COLLECTIVELY the governments have decided that having a pirate menace is a useful thing to have, know what I mean?

I promise you that if some non-governmental organziation is employed to take out this pirate menace, then that will be more proof to me that national governments are being made to appear completely impotent ON PURPOSE.

And if that is the case, then that is still more grist for the various international conspiracy theory mills that are grinding away on the facts that keep showing us that our governments so often say one thing but then do another.

Hidden agendas, folks. That's what I'm talking about.

Some of us sense that they not only do exist, but they exist on the highest levels of power in this world.

I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy freak, but this Somali pirate thing, and the world's COLLECTIVE LACK OF RESPONSE to this threat in such a strategically important place for international shipping of oil, makes the case that the agenda is not exactly as we are are constantly being reported by our media.

 

[Old Rocks]

Piracy on the high seas in the 21st century.

Simply amazing.

You folks do know that the Somali pirates have siezed "nearly 40" ships thus far, don't you?

Yeah, the "nearly 40" is a wierd number, isn't it? You mean like 38 or 39?

FOX news didn't bother to tell us...nearly fourty is the best info I have on this issue.

But pirates operating out of a failed nation so effectively that they can threaten international shipping near the straights of Hormuz?

I find that damned near impossible to understand.

How much money does the WEst pay collectively for our Navies?

And we cannot stop Somali pirates?

Does anyone besides myself find this rather unbelievable?

Why CAN'T our nation states crush these pirates?

I cannot believe there's any political, international, or military reason for us not to have long ago ended this piracy, folks.

I believe that those pirates continued existence is being allowed to happen.

Not just in Somalia. There has been piracy in South America, and Indonesia.
A New Golden Age Of High Seas Piracy?

I see where Blackwater is considering building their own little navy, for hire. This rise of modern mercenerys at the same time as the piracy looks to me like a double ripoff. What are we paying our Navy for? What do we have a fleet of Predators for?

I can easily see a time when one branch of Blackwater is hi-jacking ships, while the other collects money for "protection". Time to get out of unneccessary wars, and protect our commerce. Worldwide, in cooperation with other nations who have assets in jeopardy from these criminals.

 

[dilloduck]

Not just in Somalia. There has been piracy in South America, and Indonesia.
A New Golden Age Of High Seas Piracy?

I see where Blackwater is considering building their own little navy, for hire. This rise of modern mercenerys at the same time as the piracy looks to me like a double ripoff. What are we paying our Navy for? What do we have a fleet of Predators for?

I can easily see a time when one branch of Blackwater is hi-jacking ships, while the other collects money for "protection". Time to get out of unneccessary wars, and protect our commerce. Worldwide, in cooperation with other nations who have assets in jeopardy from these criminals.

Where is the UN navy when you need em ?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You guys (and gals) wanna know what pissed me off about this whole fiasco?

The Indian police and SWAT. Not only were they incompetent, as evidenced by the way they would stand up, hold their guns over their heads, and THEN try to fire into a window........FROM ACROSS THE FUCKING STREET!

Not only that, I saw another one that had a 50 cal sniper rifle with tripod, in prone position. He fired, and as soon as he did, he rolled over and hid behind a wall.

Nope.......what they should have done was sent in a SEAL team or two, or a few squads of people who had done at least 1 tour in Iraq. The Indians were saying that it was difficult going house to house and seeking out terrorists. Well....WTF has the US Military been doing for the past 5 years? Besides that, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan are all close to India, so it would have probably taken a max of 24 hours to get some people deployed over there.

Shit......if it had been OUR boys in the fight, it would have lasted a hell of a lot less than 50 some odd hours, and would have not lost as many lives.

They've got the most incompetent police force that I think I've ever seen.

 

[DavidS]

You guys (and gals) wanna know what pissed me off about this whole fiasco?

The Indian police and SWAT. Not only were they incompetent, as evidenced by the way they would stand up, hold their guns over their heads, and THEN try to fire into a window........FROM ACROSS THE FUCKING STREET!

Not only that, I saw another one that had a 50 cal sniper rifle with tripod, in prone position. He fired, and as soon as he did, he rolled over and hid behind a wall.

Nope.......what they should have done was sent in a SEAL team or two, or a few squads of people who had done at least 1 tour in Iraq. The Indians were saying that it was difficult going house to house and seeking out terrorists. Well....WTF has the US Military been doing for the past 5 years? Besides that, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan are all close to India, so it would have probably taken a max of 24 hours to get some people deployed over there.

Shit......if it had been OUR boys in the fight, it would have lasted a hell of a lot less than 50 some odd hours, and would have not lost as many lives.

They've got the most incompetent police force that I think I've ever seen.

If the US military or NYPD were involved in this, it would've lasted 2, maybe 3 hours tops. Something like this wouldn't happen in NYC, because these clowns would be taken out asap. We don't fuck around with hostage situations. The Indian military is incompetent... I really had high hopes for them, but this was just terrible handling of the situation. I sure as hell hope to God they (the Indian military) didn't shoot any of the hostages.

 

[Annie]

If the US military or NYPD were involved in this, it would've lasted 2, maybe 3 hours tops. Something like this wouldn't happen in NYC, because these clowns would be taken out asap. We don't fuck around with hostage situations. The Indian military is incompetent... I really had high hopes for them, but this was just terrible handling of the situation. I sure as hell hope to God they (the Indian military) didn't shoot any of the hostages.

I don't think any calls were put out by India for outside help? The police headquarters was the place first attacked, with the head of terror unit killed on sight.

I don't know too many cities outside of NY that would be equal to the challenge of 3 major hotels, and other locations, (I believe at one point 10), being hit within minutes of each other, after civilians first mowed down indiscriminately in the street from hijacked police van. Uniforms were taken from the dead in the police department.

I'm pretty amazed by the swaggering from those that say we should just be employing diplomacy.