Breaking: Obama To Address Nation Tonight. Will Bypass Congress & Invoke 14th Amendmt

[Trajan]

Read what I posted. Much more on the point than 80% want tax increases on the wealthy.

You mean the 400 Wealthiest Americans who pay an effective tax rate of 18%? Those people? Or the people making $10 million a year who pay an effective tax rate of 19%?

and so what? you do realize that that is a huge portion of and as total net recipients is over 93% of the fed revenue collects on income...right?

 

[Trajan]

The problem is there is no compromise. Repubs don't want to increase taxes, Dems don't want to cut spending. Surely, there can be a tax increase and a cut to spending.

Annie
As for your poll, of course people don't want tax increases. Probably the most redundant question on any poll like this. It's like saying to a guy, "Yes or no, would you like your balls squeezed in a vice?"...

obama already has a tax increase coming in 2013 several in fact...you know that...right?

 

[Trajan]

Blamed Bush
Corporate jets
Quoted Reagan (wanna be)
Rich people suck
Middle class suffering
Clean energy
Education

Same old

Put a fucking windmill in my backyard and STFU

He forgot to mention Green Jobs.

His speech writers deserve a REPRIMAND!

hey polling says keep Green jobs on the downlow....

 

[saveliberty]

Two words for you, saveliberty: non sense.

I see your math is still fuzzy. Nonsense is one word.

 

[MaggieMae]

Huge surprise.

My reaction too.

is this objectionable?

Only that USAR thought it was "breaking news." Breaking news would be a surprise announcement. That was a given.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie...now you are playing childsih games...I thought you were above that.

The discussion has NOTHING to do with the constitutionality of raising the debt limit.

It is consitutional to raise the debt limit.

This debate has to do with the coinsiututionality of one man, the President, raising the debt limit all by his lonesome.

I guess you had trouble comprehending the crux of the debate?

Or you decided to act like a child and play silly reindeer games.

Which one was it?

Look at the title of the thread, man. Jeezus.

I'm willing to discuss the budget crisis anytime. Just not here, because there are other threads discussing it.

Nice try Maggie..

So I will say the same thing to you.....

LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THE THREAD

Breaking: Obama To Address Nation Tonight. Will Bypass Congress & Invoke 14th Amendmt

This thread has nothing to do with the constitutionality of raising the debt limit.

It has to do with the President op[ting to bypass congress and make a decision to do something that will affect all Americans...BY HIMSELF.

So tell me...

Is it that you are playingt childish games..

Or do you have a problem understanding the topics you debate.

It must be one of them...which one is it?

Are you a child or are you intellectually immature?

Well he didn't do that, did he... And you can stop with the phony condescension, please.

 

[MaggieMae]

My reaction too.

is this objectionable?

Not at all.

Maggie just likes to say childish things. It makes her feel like a winner.

And must really piss you off when I am! Sorry.

At least Trajan puts forth genuinely thought-out points most of the time and knows how to play fair.

 

[MaggieMae]

First, I notice all of you ignored Willow's suggestion, repeated several times in this thread, that everybody should actually listen to the video. This could be a historic event as it might be the first and last time that Willow will be defending this President.

To my fellow rightwingers, please cool the rhetoric about Obama threatening to evoke anything illegal in that speech. He didn't. All he said was that after dealing with Congress over this, he wished he could do it on his own. But he followed that comment immediately with a statement that such is not the way things get done.

In short, in that particular sequence of his speech, he said noting whatsoever to criticize.

What he will say tonight if that speech happens is anybody's guess. But as he has been steadily moving closer and closer to the GOP position on all of this, I am guessing that he will offer a suggestion at least most Republicans will come off looking lame if they criticize it. They're sooo close in the White House and House of Representatives. All that we have to do is table the issue of higher taxes on the rich for at least a little while and get the Senate to agree.

Like Obama, I wish so much I could be undisputed dictator for just a little while.

But that's not the way we get things done.

I think most of us are very tired of the grandstanding, the gaming, the so obvious political posturing with a major election cycle just over the horizon. Since it's now the following day and we all know what both Obama and Boehner had to say, my opinion is that nobody wants to hear any more ideological positioning from either camp. Just get busy and do something.

 

[Mr. Jones]

It's really sad how things turn out sometimes. All the fanatical Hopey Changey followers used to call George Bush a "Dictator." Well guess what? Bush wasn't even close. This current President behaves more & more like a maniacal Dictator everyday. It really is very sad.

It's sadder that we really don't do anything about it, and continue to trust these people.

How many campaign promises has Obama reneged on now?

When will everybody learn that the 2 party system is not designed to give you a choice. At the end of the day they don't benefit the American people, they are not your voice.
They are all beholden to other interests, and YOUR ass always comes last, YOU have to make do without, YOU get the shitty end of the stick, ALWAYS.
We must change our way of thinking and stop the stupid partisan bickering, and go back to the basics.
This is not the first time they have bypassed (or threatened to bypass the Constitution).
Get away from it , do your research on alternative candidates that are not puppets of corporations and the money system, but are willing to uphold and defend the Constitution.
I'd rather have a bunch of no names who know their shit when it comes to the law of the land and sound economics then the lying scumbags that are presented to us as viable choices.

 

[MaggieMae]

Read the powers of the branches of Government. Only Congress has the power to incur debt for the Government.

And they already did, which is what this is all about. What part of that can't you grasp?

They did? In the budgets they never submitted?

You're not paying for anything in those yet. A spending bill can be enacted and signed, but until it's appropriated (funded), it can just sit in limbo.

United States House Committee on Appropriations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MaggieMae]

McConnell told him what to do, since Tea Party moron fanatics are out of control, literally.So it's hardly even Obama's idea. When will these a-holes let the recovery continue?

Ever think that there area some of us who are not real high on THIS economy or THIS government recovering?

What recovery? Unemployment went up another 2 points in the past month.

Here's why:

 

[MaggieMae]

What he will say tonight if that speech happens is anybody's guess.

Foxfyre, Wolf Blitzer went on the air over a hour ago and gave a heads up what the speech will contain. Here it is.

Speech Will Be Just 18 Minutes

Highlights will be according to CNN: President will say:

Number 1. United States Is In Imminent Threat Of Default

Number 2. Congress Has Reached A Stalemate Forcing President To Telling Americans He Will Bypass Congress And Take Matters Into Own Hands


In other words he is fixing to usurp the Constitution just to save his reelection bid for a second term. Wolf Blitzer just stated this is a serious dangerous move from the president and will instill fear amongst the American people. This is Wolf saying this now and he is flabbergasted (astonished). Anyone remember the Reichstag Fire and decree Hitler used to his advantage?

Poor Wolf. He knows better than to jump the gun. I did notice he looked a little sheepish after the speech.

 

[MaggieMae]

i get all that. I guess I am taking the 14th too literally then...

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
So far, so good. I understand this.

But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
This is where I think people are hung up, and where I don't see the relevance. It specifically discusses debt which is 'incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States' or 'any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave'.

I read the next line 'all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void' to mean specifically those instance mentioned within the section...

'incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave', and ONLY for these types of debt.

Again, maybe I am being too literal?

That part is parenthetical to the clause. The Constitution is full of those, which have caused innumerable squabbles over interpretation. It's just the way they wrote stuff in those days.

right. Some people interpret it to mean A, while others say it really means B.

So, that being the case, the only way to prove anything the President does in this regard is a violation of the Constitution, would be a court challenge to the action itself. Therefore, all statements of 'it's unconstitutional' or 'it's not unconstitutional' are essentially bogus unless and until there is a court case and a decision is reached.

Exactly. Thanks.

 

[MaggieMae]

Boehner just set the record straight about Obama, It's about the usurper wanting to be reelected.

Your tunnel vision is absolutely incredible. Boehner KNOWS that if he doesn't kowtow to the 100 or so Tea Party members, he'll loose the speakership. Howzat for game playing?

 

[MaggieMae]

well the speech is over he didn't do anything but reiterate that a) he is now on the left of harry reid and b) evoked more class warfare,

Anyone who doesn't believe there's class warfare going on needs to check out the latest PEW statistics. (It was only released today, so I can't find it posted yet).

Here's a nuts and bolts of the study, which can be found in a variety of places.

Wealth gap widens during recession | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

 

[saveliberty]

Obama's at 43% approval rating it seems. Lower then Clinton in a similiar time and circumstance.

 

[MaggieMae]

Just got off the phone with my rep's office. Interesting discussion of how easily I might re-direct my campaign contributions to any candidate that arises to take him on in a primary should he cave in to Our Kenyan President's impeachment-grade threats.

Scott Brown? He's too smart to fall for such bullshit.

 

[MaggieMae]

If Obama does what is claimed and it stands we can forget about a three tiered Government and a Republic. The Constitution will be useless. If the Democrats support this they are fomenting rebellion. If the House Impeaches and the Senate does not convict our Government is a shame.

An armed insurgency against the US government is precisely what you right-wing extremists are itching for. Well the rest of us are ready, and we would soon find out who the traitors really are.

Section 3 of the Constitution defines treason as ~~
“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court..."

The Supreme Court ruled that there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war.

MY advice...Stay off the drugs.

Best you can do? Says nothing and makes zero sense in the context of the post anyway.

 

[MaggieMae]

Then there's reality:

 

[saveliberty]

What would be a cartoon Maggie. I understand it may pass for reality for you.