Breaking: SCOTUS ends Affirmative Action in university race-based admissions

[Lisa558]

Lisa, I go by the threads you start and the comments you make regarding race and they follow a pattern. I am pro diversity and I support the right of colleges to be flexible in the criteria they use in order to achieve that outcome of it is what they want.

I don’t limit that to race either.

And yes, I do try to get your goat when you run around calling people anti-semitic.

You are not pro-diversity. Otherwise you wouldn’t pull out every nasty trick in the book to demonize people who disagree with you.

And let’s get this straight: you try to get my goat when I point out people who are antisemitic - and then you turn around and call me racist?! Typical hypocritical leftist.

Look, hon. You lost this round. The SCOTUS is not allowing colleges to lower standards for blacks. All races will be treated equally. It is the very OPPOSITE of racism, yet you are upset.

 

[Lisa558]

Black vote for her Party.

BINGO!

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Racist discrimination cancelled.

Racial discrimination is back. Thxs to a racist Supreme Court, Mitchell McConnell knew what he was doing. That is why he backed that orange idiot until he got what he wanted.

 

[Billiejeens]

BINGO!

For people like Coyote it is all about power and control.
They attempt to hide in the guise of hey look how open minded we are.

 

[Hollie]

Racial discrimination is back. Thxs to a racist Supreme Court, Mitchell McConnell knew what he was doing. That is why he backed that orange idiot until he got what he wanted.

The racism™ canard.

How predictable.

 

[Coyote]

Asians must score 140 points higher on the exams than Blacks to get the same score. DISCRIMINATION

It isn’t clear that that is the case. For example:

A look at the data and arguments about Asian-Americans and admissions at elite colleges

Justice Department inquiry renews debate over whether top colleges hold some applicants to an unfair standard -- and what the data say about Asian-American applicants.

www.insidehighered.com

In 2015, the Education Department cleared Princeton University of bias against Asian applicants -- after a nine-year investigation in which it reviewed such data.

The reason Asian-American applicants have such a tough time getting into Princeton, OCR concluded, was that everyone has a tough time getting into Princeton.

The OCR report found that there are so many highly qualified applicants to Princeton that the university rejects many with stellar if not perfect academic records. And OCR found that Asians could also be found among some of the less than perfect applicants, as well.

"The university told OCR that 82 percent of the valedictorians in the applicant pool for the Class of 2010 were not admitted, and over 50 percent of applicants with perfect SAT I scores of 2,400 were not admitted," the OCR report said. "The university added that for the Class of 2010 -- for which the university admitted only 1,790 students -- there were more than 6,300 applicants who had SAT scores of 750 or higher on the math portion of the test, and there were more than 4,800 applicants that year who scored 750 or higher on the verbal portion of the SAT. More than 5,600 applicants for the Class of 2010 alone had GPAs of 4.0 or higher."

Princeton also told OCR (and the agency confirmed), “that less than stellar grades or test scores do not mean that an applicant is automatically foreclosed from admission. OCR in its file review found examples of applicants who did not have the highest quantifiable qualifications, such as grades and test scores, who were nonetheless admitted by the university based on other qualities and the overall strength of their applications. Some of these applicants were Asian.

“The university reported to OCR that the university ‘frequently accepted to the Class of 2010 applicants from Asian backgrounds with grades and test scores lower than rejected non-Asian applicants.’ The university gave OCR specific examples of Asian-American applicants for the Class of 2010 whose grades and SAT scores were not near the top of the range usually seen by the university’s admissions officers, but who nonetheless were offered admission. These included an Asian-American applicant who had ‘only’ a 3.45 GPA in high school, but who was a nationally recognized athlete; and two other Asian-American applicants with relatively low GPAs and SAT scores who were notable for other distinctions such as community service, overcoming impoverished backgrounds and working in a family business.”

 

[Superbadbrutha]

You are not pro-diversity. Otherwise you wouldn’t pull out every nasty trick in the book to demonize people who disagree with you.

And let’s get this straight: you try to get my goat when I point out people who are antisemitic - and then you turn around and call me racist?! Typical hypocritical leftist.

Look, hon. You lost this round. The SCOTUS is not allowing colleges to lower standards for blacks. All races will be treated equally. It is the very OPPOSITE of racism, yet you are upset.

That is why you are so happy, white privilege is back in full effect. They lowered the standards for you, since you have benefitted more from AA than any black person ever has.

Only a fool would belive everyone is going to be treated equally, it is going to have the opposite effect. I notice you never whine about all the special privileges that whites have when it comes to college admissions.

 

[Coyote]

No question. Harvard's rhetoric about "diversity" is 100% bullshit. It's all about $$$. They want diversity - drop all legacy admits and stop the express discrimination based on race.

I agree $$$ has lots to do with it and there is pressure to limit or do away with legacy admits.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Asians must score 140 points higher on the exams than Blacks to get the same score. DISCRIMINATION

How much higher do they to score than whites on exams to get in?

 

[justoffal]

How much higher do they to score than whites on exams to get in?

I forget the number... But it's the same deal. I don't particularly have a problem with it because I think most people miss the point. The University is not there simply to select the most intelligent people. (remembering that scoring well on an exam does not necessarily mean highest intelligence) The University is there to provide a service to society. I think if they change their message a little bit stop treating the masses like plebeians and actually try talking to them that people will begin to understand why the process is the way it is. Asians tend to have a tighter home life than either black or white in North America so in response and in an effort to make things fair I understand why affirmative action did what it did. I think the real problem lies with the expense of education this is one service that I believe deserves consideration as a universal right. Though some type of entrance exam should always be given to make sure people are not wasting the time and effort of those who are trying to instruct them. Short of being able to read somebody's mind I can't think of any other way to keep it organized.

 

[Coyote]

You are not pro-diversity. Otherwise you wouldn’t pull out every nasty trick in the book to demonize people who disagree with you.

Hold on….what is it you keep saying about leftists? And aren’t you pulling some nasty tricks when you demonize people who disagree with you (leftists, those who don’t support Israel’s political behavior!).

Your glass house is cracking.

And let’s get this straight: you try to get my goat when I point out people who are antisemitic - and then you turn around and call me racist?! Typical hypocritical leftist.

You accuse people antisemitic at the drop of a hat.

Other than one thread on a politician…I can’t find anything positive you have said about Blacks as a group. And with you is only ever Blacks.

What conclusions would a reasonable person draw?

That Blacks are inherently low IQ, lazy, incompeten, violent, bad people?

Or there is a bias there?

Look, hon. You lost this round. The SCOTUS is not allowing colleges to lower standards for blacks. All races will be treated equally. It is the very OPPOSITE of racism, yet you are upset.

All SCOTUS said was race cannot be a factor. That doesn’t only test scores and GPA will be the only metrics.

Now if you were truly about equality, you’ll be starting threads on the unjustness of legacy admits…right?

 

[Coyote]

I forget the number... But it's the same deal. I don't particularly have a problem with it because I think most people miss the point. The University is not there simply to select the most intelligent (remembering that scoring well on an exam does not necessarily mean highest intelligence) people University is there to provide a service to society. I think if they change their message a little bit stop treating the masses like plebeians and actually try talking to them that people will begin to understand why the process is the way it is. Asians tend to have a tighter home life than either black or white in North America so in response and in an effort to make things fair I understand why affirmative action did what it did. I think the real problem lies with the expense of education this is one service that I believe deserves consideration as a universal right. Though some type of entrance exam should always be given to make sure people are not wasting the time and effort of those who are trying to instruct them. Short of being able to read somebody's mind I can't think of any other way to keep it organized.

I think if the admissions process is holistic (GPA, essay, resume, interview) that gives a better idea of the students abilities than an entrance exam.

 

[Coyote]

None of that is racist. It is a fact that the average black IQ is much lower than, say, the average Asian IQ.

Except IQ has been shown to be a problematic indicator of intelligence and changes with education, but you still raise like a flag. This is expected of people like your buddy Hector and his “scientific race realism”…is that what you follow?

Neither is pointed out that they are EXTREMELY overrepresented in advertising, as that shows the racist decisions that go into hiring them over whites,

Except they aren’t, and I posted articles supporting this while the only thing you have posted are your complaints that you are seeing too many Blacks.

And yes, with affirmative action giving promotions to blacks due to skin color, of course they are more likely to be unqualified.

And promotions to white women because of gender.

And why are you not coming down on posters who say really awful things….like “Negroes” don‘t know how to behave, that they leave gatherings when too many blacks are there, etc?

I have, you just don’t notice. How come you never do?

Surely you could find another Jew to target.

NOPE. But YOU are.

I don’t care that you are a Jew. You are the only one making it about your ethnic identity instead of the positions you take.

 

[justoffal]

I think if the admissions process is holistic (GPA, essay, resume, interview) that gives a better idea of the students abilities than an entrance exam.

It's time for the universities to fess up and admit that admissions is not all about ability. They need to clarify their mission statements.
They need to do a little bit more explaining about why they are there exactly and what it is they're trying to accomplish. Having said that perhaps at this time to set up yet another system that is completely competitively merit-based. The last thing we want to do is turn away our most valuable assets.
Perhaps there should be some schools designated as merit only and highly competitive as to ability.
Would it be 80% Asian? Maybe.... But to ignore the inherent potential offhand is insane in my opinion.
Jo

 

[Rawley]

I agree $$$ has lots to do with it and there is pressure to limit or do away with legacy admits.

But they are not going to do it. $$$ is a all they care about. Their ullshit about "Diversity" is simply to keep liberals and progressives on the plantation. They don't give a fuck about diversity.

 

[justoffal]

I think if the admissions process is holistic (GPA, essay, resume, interview) that gives a better idea of the students abilities than an entrance exam.

We are close to being on the same page however I'm going to say one thing that many people are going to consider cruel. Some people are just plain old smarter than others and when you find them it's wrong to beat them up because they're smart. They may be selfish antisocial pricks but they're also capable of moving the world forward in ways that other people are not capable of. If the goal ultimately is to benefit society we simply cannot ignore their potential. Einstein was an asshole in his personal life. Hard to say whether or not he would have even made it into today's modern university setting. Feynman was atrocious at spelling and grammar right up to his last day.. yet he was probably the brightest physicist that ever lived.

 

[Coyote]

It's time for the universities to fess up and admit that admissions is not all about ability. They need to clarify their mission statements.

I think some do, they make it clear gpa and test scores are not the only metric. Others lean much more heavily on gpa/test scores. Having variability that way is good imo, especially when you consider a school like Harvard that gets over 6000 applications, most pretty stellar, and admits something like 1% of them.

They need to do a little bit more explaining about why they are there exactly and what it is they're trying to accomplish. Having said that perhaps at this time to set up yet another system that is completely competitively merit-based. The last thing we want to do is turn away our most valuable assets.

There are many schools less “elite” than the handful of Ivy Leagues…and some of the Ivy Leagues are almost entirely merit based. Most applicants do not get into any Ivy Leagues no matter how perfect their scores.

Perhaps there should be some schools designated as merit only and highly competitive as to ability.
Would it be 80% Asian? Maybe.... But to ignore the inherent potential offhand is insane in my opinion.
Jo

I think some are, like UCLA, but with an acceptance rate of only 9%, students will need in order to stand out.

 

[Coyote]

We are close to being on the same page however I'm going to say one thing that many people are going to consider cruel. Some people are just plain old smarter than others and when you find them it's wrong to beat them up because they're smart. They may be selfish antisocial pricks but they're also capable of moving the world forward in ways that other people are not capable of. If the goal ultimately is to benefit society we simply cannot ignore their potential. Einstein was an asshole in his personal life. Hard to say whether or not he would have even made it into today's modern university setting. Feynman was atrocious at spelling and grammar right up to his last day.. yet he was probably the brightest physicist that ever lived.

Actually, I don’t disagree with you

 

[Markle]

These aren’t the GPA’s that get a Black student into Harvard…in terms of difference, GPA’s are less influenced by wealth and more indicative of success. (I hated French!).

Who said they were the GPAs that get a Black student into Harvard? These are the average GPAs of American high school graduates.

Comparisons by Race/Ethnicity​

• Average GPA for Black: 2.69, Hispanic: 2.84, White: 3.09, Asian/Pacific: 3.26

Average GPA in High School​

Report Highlights Statistics on the average GPA in high schools show that the scores have been increasing. TACT Research conducted analyses to compare first-year college GPA to high school GPA data on the usual grading

www.thinkimpact.com

 

[Lisa558]

Except IQ has been shown to be a problematic indicator of intelligence and changes with education, but you still raise like a flag. This is expected of people like your buddy Hector and his “scientific race realism”…is that what you follow?



Except they aren’t, and I posted articles supporting this while the only thing you have posted are your complaints that you are seeing too many Blacks.




And promotions to white women because of gender.



I have, you just don’t notice. How come you never do?




I don’t care that you are a Jew. You are the only one making it about your ethnic identity instead of the positions you take.

Sorry, you’re already revealed your hypocrisy.

You just said you like “getting my goat” by using antisemitic slurs like ”Princess“ when addressing me because I call out antisemites. Yet you are fine, or perhaps was part of setting it up, a subforum where blacks like IM2 and Superbadbro call everyone and everything racist.

Perfect illustration of the problem I have with many Democrats. They not only allow blacks to yell ”racist” at everyone but actually encourage it, and then tolerate antisemitism - or worse, lash out with antisemitic slurs at Jews who speak up against it.