BREAKING: Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) announces he will not run again...

[Missourian]

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

We'll just have to wait and see who is right on this one. 2018 ain't that far away.

Good discussion as always Doc.

 

[bripat9643]

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

The proof is in the pudding Doc. Just look at this thread. There is an ideological divide in the Republican party and there is one in the Democratic party as well. One side is going to prevail. The optics of Trump triumphing over the Flakes and the Corkers is another victory over the old guard. You're seeing the same thing in with the Democrats...Feinstein being primaries, calls for Pelosi to step down, Sanders giving Clinton a run for her money...such a threat the DNC had to cheat to quell his insurgency. Things are changing on both sides. Dems are moving farther left and Republicans are moving farther right.

We unexpectedly have all three branches of government, and we aren't getting it done. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Flake and Corker are chaff.

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

Yes, that much is true. That's why we need to run all the establishment scumbag traitors like Flake out of the party.

 

[Spare_change]

I have no doubt that Flake and Corker have decided not to run for reelection because they're worried about being primaried. That's not the real issue here.

Ward will almost certainly lose the general. Flake, if he ran again, would almost certainly win.

It is the only issue here. Opposition to Trumps agenda is now the kiss of political death for incumbent Republicans...that is far mord important than whether Dems get a pick up or not in Arizona. You need to think more strategically and less tactically.
You're going to lose some skirmishes on the way to laying claim to the battlefield. I'm not conceding Arizona...in all honesty I don't follow state level politics in any state other than my own. Trump is solidifying his power over the political fortunes of these political insiders...and that is more important than individual races.

You've got that flipped around. You're thinking tactically, not strategically. Ideological purity within the Republican Party is meaningless if they lose control.

There is a large portion of the Republican voting base that feels the same was as Flake and Corker. Those people aren't going to vote for Ward in Arizona, they're going to stay home.

That's the biggest issue with the way you guys regard Trump. You mistake a perfect storm for a tidal change.

Trump won AZ over Hillary. Sure, Dems can get a DINO elected...but then they are in the same boat with some bozo working against them.

Republicans may lose AZ, but if the return is. Passing the Trump Agenda, it is a well placed sacrifice. Lose AZ, pick up MO...think McCaskill has a chance? It would take an Akin...but I'm hopeful that won't happen again. And it's a wash...Republicans keep control. Dems are in a Senate hole in 2018...one pick up for them will be inconsequential.

Remember back when Missouri was a purple state?

www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/what-the-hell

Trump did beat Clinton in AZ - but by significantly less of a margin than Romney or McCain beat Obama there.

Clinton got around 100,000 more votes in 2016 than Obama did in 2012. On the other hand, Trump got about 20,000 more votes in 2016 than Romney did in 2012.

How does one less Republican help pass the "Trump Agenda"?

I'll pose the opposite question...what good is one more Republican if that Republican is going to work against you?

Cut your losses if you must, and focus your attention on Missouri, West Virginia and Montana.

You assume that "Republican" means they will automatically fall in line .... they ain't the Democrats. Dems are like lemmings --- they just continue to march off the cliff. Some Republicans are threatened by the new regime, and that's why you hear all the noise.

The swamp is full of all kinds of critters - both Democrat and Republican. If you're going to drain it, you have to get rid of them all.

Clearly, the Dems are just about finished .... they seem intent on committing political suicide. Getting rid of the Republicans who think they are, somehow, entitled, and who believe THEY should run the country, rather than the people, is the next logical step. Take a look, sometime, at the records of Flake and Corner.

You can hear the sump pumps running .... he is definitely draining the swamp.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

We'll just have to wait and see who is right on this one. 2018 ain't that far away.

Good discussion as always Doc.

Indeed. No doubt, we'll both be here.

And thanks!

 

[Zander]

I don't need faith. I have the present moment.

What else would you call your belief that the future will reflect the present (or, more accurately, the past), if not faith?

Where did I say the future would reflect the present or past? The future will be different. I don't need faith to know that.

This thread is about the future. Did you not understand that?

This thread is about Jeff Flake being forced out of the Senate. Did you not understand that?

Actually, it's about the next election cycle.

And what the result of Flake's decision will be.

Actually, it is about Flake getting his ass handed to him by Trump.

Flake didn't make a decision, he was forced out.

Poll: Flake’s approval rating in Arizona at 18 percent

 

[Spare_change]

It is the only issue here. Opposition to Trumps agenda is now the kiss of political death for incumbent Republicans...that is far mord important than whether Dems get a pick up or not in Arizona. You need to think more strategically and less tactically.
You're going to lose some skirmishes on the way to laying claim to the battlefield. I'm not conceding Arizona...in all honesty I don't follow state level politics in any state other than my own. Trump is solidifying his power over the political fortunes of these political insiders...and that is more important than individual races.

You've got that flipped around. You're thinking tactically, not strategically. Ideological purity within the Republican Party is meaningless if they lose control.

There is a large portion of the Republican voting base that feels the same was as Flake and Corker. Those people aren't going to vote for Ward in Arizona, they're going to stay home.

That's the biggest issue with the way you guys regard Trump. You mistake a perfect storm for a tidal change.

Trump won AZ over Hillary. Sure, Dems can get a DINO elected...but then they are in the same boat with some bozo working against them.

Republicans may lose AZ, but if the return is. Passing the Trump Agenda, it is a well placed sacrifice. Lose AZ, pick up MO...think McCaskill has a chance? It would take an Akin...but I'm hopeful that won't happen again. And it's a wash...Republicans keep control. Dems are in a Senate hole in 2018...one pick up for them will be inconsequential.

Remember back when Missouri was a purple state?

www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/what-the-hell

Trump did beat Clinton in AZ - but by significantly less of a margin than Romney or McCain beat Obama there.

Clinton got around 100,000 more votes in 2016 than Obama did in 2012. On the other hand, Trump got about 20,000 more votes in 2016 than Romney did in 2012.

How does one less Republican help pass the "Trump Agenda"?

I'll pose the opposite question...what good is one more Republican if that Republican is going to work against you?

Cut your losses if you must, and focus your attention on Missouri, West Virginia and Montana.

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

Your assumption, of course, is that a Democrat will win that seat if Flake isn't running ..... fallacious, at a minimum ... daydreaming, at the most. You need to take a look at the constituency in Arizona.

 

[Zander]

Just like Trump was going to lose.....

Get a new Crystal ball Doc, the one you are using is full of baloney!

As I said, you keep that faith alive.

Trump's election was a perfect storm, not a change in the tides.

You keep that faith alive. The faith that Trump's election was not a change in tides....

I don't need faith, I have numbers.

I have numbers too.

34- The number of GOP governorships
26- states where the GOP control both the state legislatures and the governors’ mansions (compared with total Democratic control in six states)

You're not getting it.

But that's ok. As I said, let that faith keep you warm.

You are the one that is "not getting it".

I keep "warm" with the reality of the present moment.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

The proof is in the pudding Doc. Just look at this thread. There is an ideological divide in the Republican party and there is one in the Democratic party as well. One side is going to prevail. The optics of Trump triumphing over the Flakes and the Corkers is another victory over the old guard. You're seeing the same thing in with the Democrats...Feinstein being primaries, calls for Pelosi to step down, Sanders giving Clinton a run for her money...such a threat the DNC had to cheat to quell his insurgency. Things are changing on both sides. Dems are moving farther left and Republicans are moving farther right.

We unexpectedly have all three branches of government, and we aren't getting it done. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Flake and Corker are chaff.

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

Yes, that much is true. That's why we need to run all the establishment scumbag traitors like Flake out of the party.

Of course. Nothing will help the Republican party win elections quite like shrinking itself into a tiny minority.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What else would you call your belief that the future will reflect the present (or, more accurately, the past), if not faith?

Where did I say the future would reflect the present or past? The future will be different. I don't need faith to know that.

This thread is about the future. Did you not understand that?

This thread is about Jeff Flake being forced out of the Senate. Did you not understand that?

Actually, it's about the next election cycle.

And what the result of Flake's decision will be.

Actually, it is about Flake getting his ass handed to him by Trump.

Flake didn't make a decision, he was forced out.

Poll: Flake’s approval rating in Arizona at 18 percent

He made the decision to not run again.

But if it makes you feel better to think he was forced out, who am I to stop you?

 

[ScienceRocks]

And he'll probably be replaced with a nazi that hates poor people, hates LBGT people and wishes to give it all to the top 1%.

Sad.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You've got that flipped around. You're thinking tactically, not strategically. Ideological purity within the Republican Party is meaningless if they lose control.

There is a large portion of the Republican voting base that feels the same was as Flake and Corker. Those people aren't going to vote for Ward in Arizona, they're going to stay home.

That's the biggest issue with the way you guys regard Trump. You mistake a perfect storm for a tidal change.

Trump won AZ over Hillary. Sure, Dems can get a DINO elected...but then they are in the same boat with some bozo working against them.

Republicans may lose AZ, but if the return is. Passing the Trump Agenda, it is a well placed sacrifice. Lose AZ, pick up MO...think McCaskill has a chance? It would take an Akin...but I'm hopeful that won't happen again. And it's a wash...Republicans keep control. Dems are in a Senate hole in 2018...one pick up for them will be inconsequential.

Remember back when Missouri was a purple state?

www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/what-the-hell

Trump did beat Clinton in AZ - but by significantly less of a margin than Romney or McCain beat Obama there.

Clinton got around 100,000 more votes in 2016 than Obama did in 2012. On the other hand, Trump got about 20,000 more votes in 2016 than Romney did in 2012.

How does one less Republican help pass the "Trump Agenda"?

I'll pose the opposite question...what good is one more Republican if that Republican is going to work against you?

Cut your losses if you must, and focus your attention on Missouri, West Virginia and Montana.

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

Your assumption, of course, is that a Democrat will win that seat if Flake isn't running ..... fallacious, at a minimum ... daydreaming, at the most. You need to take a look at the constituency in Arizona.

Well, anything can happen.

But it's undeniable that Ward will have a mich tougher time in the general than Flake would.

 

[bripat9643]

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

The proof is in the pudding Doc. Just look at this thread. There is an ideological divide in the Republican party and there is one in the Democratic party as well. One side is going to prevail. The optics of Trump triumphing over the Flakes and the Corkers is another victory over the old guard. You're seeing the same thing in with the Democrats...Feinstein being primaries, calls for Pelosi to step down, Sanders giving Clinton a run for her money...such a threat the DNC had to cheat to quell his insurgency. Things are changing on both sides. Dems are moving farther left and Republicans are moving farther right.

We unexpectedly have all three branches of government, and we aren't getting it done. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Flake and Corker are chaff.

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

Yes, that much is true. That's why we need to run all the establishment scumbag traitors like Flake out of the party.

Of course. Nothing will help the Republican party win elections quite like shrinking itself into a tiny minority.

What you're saying is that if you lived in Germany in 1932 you would have voted for the Nazis because they were the biggest party at the time.

 

[Spare_change]

Where did I say the future would reflect the present or past? The future will be different. I don't need faith to know that.

This thread is about the future. Did you not understand that?

This thread is about Jeff Flake being forced out of the Senate. Did you not understand that?

Actually, it's about the next election cycle.

And what the result of Flake's decision will be.

Actually, it is about Flake getting his ass handed to him by Trump.

Flake didn't make a decision, he was forced out.

Poll: Flake’s approval rating in Arizona at 18 percent

He made the decision to not run again.

But if it makes you feel better to think he was forced out, who am I to stop you?

Look at the facts ... quit being so lazy. He is being forced out ....

 

[theDoctorisIn]

As I said, you keep that faith alive.

Trump's election was a perfect storm, not a change in the tides.

You keep that faith alive. The faith that Trump's election was not a change in tides....

I don't need faith, I have numbers.

I have numbers too.

34- The number of GOP governorships
26- states where the GOP control both the state legislatures and the governors’ mansions (compared with total Democratic control in six states)

You're not getting it.

But that's ok. As I said, let that faith keep you warm.

You are the one that is "not getting it".

I keep "warm" with the reality of the present moment.

No, you're not living in the present. You're still living one year ago.

Look at all of your posts in this thread.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

This thread is about the future. Did you not understand that?

This thread is about Jeff Flake being forced out of the Senate. Did you not understand that?

Actually, it's about the next election cycle.

And what the result of Flake's decision will be.

Actually, it is about Flake getting his ass handed to him by Trump.

Flake didn't make a decision, he was forced out.

Poll: Flake’s approval rating in Arizona at 18 percent

He made the decision to not run again.

But if it makes you feel better to think he was forced out, who am I to stop you?

Look at the facts ... quit being so lazy. He is being forced out ....

No. Words have meanings.

I know it makes you feel manly and powerful by proxy to believe that he is being "forced" out, but it's just not reality. He is choosing not to run, because he's likely to lose.

 

[DrLove]

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

The proof is in the pudding Doc. Just look at this thread. There is an ideological divide in the Republican party and there is one in the Democratic party as well. One side is going to prevail. The optics of Trump triumphing over the Flakes and the Corkers is another victory over the old guard. You're seeing the same thing in with the Democrats...Feinstein being primaries, calls for Pelosi to step down, Sanders giving Clinton a run for her money...such a threat the DNC had to cheat to quell his insurgency. Things are changing on both sides. Dems are moving farther left and Republicans are moving farther right.

We unexpectedly have all three branches of government, and we aren't getting it done. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Flake and Corker are chaff.

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

Yes, that much is true. That's why we need to run all the establishment scumbag traitors like Flake out of the party.

Of course. Nothing will help the Republican party win elections quite like shrinking itself into a tiny minority.

What you're saying is that if you lived in Germany in 1932 you would have voted for the Nazis because they were the biggest party at the time.

The NSDAP was not the "largest party" in Germany in 1932, just the loudest.

And, ideologically purest. Right up your alley.

It's a shame you guys can't just kill the RINOs, like the Nazis did to the Strasserites. Right?

 

[Spare_change]

Trump won AZ over Hillary. Sure, Dems can get a DINO elected...but then they are in the same boat with some bozo working against them.

Republicans may lose AZ, but if the return is. Passing the Trump Agenda, it is a well placed sacrifice. Lose AZ, pick up MO...think McCaskill has a chance? It would take an Akin...but I'm hopeful that won't happen again. And it's a wash...Republicans keep control. Dems are in a Senate hole in 2018...one pick up for them will be inconsequential.

Remember back when Missouri was a purple state?

www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/what-the-hell

Trump did beat Clinton in AZ - but by significantly less of a margin than Romney or McCain beat Obama there.

Clinton got around 100,000 more votes in 2016 than Obama did in 2012. On the other hand, Trump got about 20,000 more votes in 2016 than Romney did in 2012.

How does one less Republican help pass the "Trump Agenda"?

I'll pose the opposite question...what good is one more Republican if that Republican is going to work against you?

Cut your losses if you must, and focus your attention on Missouri, West Virginia and Montana.

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

Your assumption, of course, is that a Democrat will win that seat if Flake isn't running ..... fallacious, at a minimum ... daydreaming, at the most. You need to take a look at the constituency in Arizona.

Well, anything can happen.

But it's undeniable that Ward will have a mich tougher time in the general than Flake would.

Trump won AZ over Hillary. Sure, Dems can get a DINO elected...but then they are in the same boat with some bozo working against them.

Republicans may lose AZ, but if the return is. Passing the Trump Agenda, it is a well placed sacrifice. Lose AZ, pick up MO...think McCaskill has a chance? It would take an Akin...but I'm hopeful that won't happen again. And it's a wash...Republicans keep control. Dems are in a Senate hole in 2018...one pick up for them will be inconsequential.

Remember back when Missouri was a purple state?

www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/what-the-hell

Trump did beat Clinton in AZ - but by significantly less of a margin than Romney or McCain beat Obama there.

Clinton got around 100,000 more votes in 2016 than Obama did in 2012. On the other hand, Trump got about 20,000 more votes in 2016 than Romney did in 2012.

How does one less Republican help pass the "Trump Agenda"?

I'll pose the opposite question...what good is one more Republican if that Republican is going to work against you?

Cut your losses if you must, and focus your attention on Missouri, West Virginia and Montana.

Who is this "you" you're speaking of?

Do you believe that the President is owed the support of his party, no matter what?

Flake has voted with the Republican majority on essentially every vote he's ever made in the Senate - and he's voted with Trump 90% of the time since 2016.

But you're willing to trade him for a Democrat, just because he said mean things about Trump?

Your assumption, of course, is that a Democrat will win that seat if Flake isn't running ..... fallacious, at a minimum ... daydreaming, at the most. You need to take a look at the constituency in Arizona.

Well, anything can happen.

But it's undeniable that Ward will have a mich tougher time in the general than Flake would.

That's not true .... she carries 62% of all Republicans .... Flake carries 18%. There are about 22% more Republicans in Arizona than Democrats ... and more Independents than Democrats. In the last election, 88% of Republicans voted for Trump, 47% of Independents voted for Trump, AND 7% of Democrats voted for Trump.

THAT means it is a very Republican state. Ward is a lock. Check the polling here: United States Senate election in Arizona, 2018 - Wikipedia

 

[Spare_change]

The proof is in the pudding Doc. Just look at this thread. There is an ideological divide in the Republican party and there is one in the Democratic party as well. One side is going to prevail. The optics of Trump triumphing over the Flakes and the Corkers is another victory over the old guard. You're seeing the same thing in with the Democrats...Feinstein being primaries, calls for Pelosi to step down, Sanders giving Clinton a run for her money...such a threat the DNC had to cheat to quell his insurgency. Things are changing on both sides. Dems are moving farther left and Republicans are moving farther right.

We unexpectedly have all three branches of government, and we aren't getting it done. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Flake and Corker are chaff.

If the Democratic party plays it's cards right (which is by no means a guarantee), I think you'll see that any "ideological divide" in the Democratic party is negligible, compared to the damage the Republican party has been dealt by it's own members.

Yes, that much is true. That's why we need to run all the establishment scumbag traitors like Flake out of the party.

Of course. Nothing will help the Republican party win elections quite like shrinking itself into a tiny minority.

What you're saying is that if you lived in Germany in 1932 you would have voted for the Nazis because they were the biggest party at the time.

The NSDAP was not the "largest party" in Germany in 1932, just the loudest.

And, ideologically purest. Right up your alley.

It's a shame you guys can't just kill the RINOs, like the Nazis did to the Strasserites. Right?

We don't have to ... we got liberals to do that. Ask Scalise.

 

[Rambunctious]

No. Words have meanings.

I know it makes you feel manly and powerful by proxy to believe that he is being "forced" out, but it's just not reality. He is choosing not to run, because he's likely to lose

If he wasn't going to lose would he still retire? answer.....No so he is being forced out by definition. He has a primary opponent he can not beat. If you ask me this is so telling. He is not a fighter, he won't fight for his constituents and he won't even fight for himself...And that is why he is getting beat.