Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[IM2]

Of course those who want nanny government and think they should be paid just because their skin is dark would absolutely hate both Williams, Sowell or any number of other scholars who teach common sense instead of racism. I accept that it is your opinion that all who don't think like you are racist or sell outs as you call them. It is really sad though because black people are people of the Earth and just as capable as any other people on Earth if they aren't hamstrung with attitudes like yours. But have a pleasant rest of your day.

Whites have depended on nanny government and for 47 years. Sowell and Williams are not the only blacks and there are white scholars who support reparations.

And I admit to feel pretty strong contempt for attitudes of people now who suggest that black people are incapable of making choices like that, who discourage black people from making such choices by brainwashing them that they are oppressed victims in an unjust world so that they demand reparations, restitution, a nanny state government to take care of them. That is a sure prescription for never knowing what it is to aspire and succeed on one's own merits.

It's very hard to not have contempt for white people with this attitude. They just ignore everything whites have done to stop blacks from progressing then want to try gaslighting people with stuff like this. Foxfyre, you know good and well what whites have done and what whites like you still do. To sit behind a comptuter typing this stuff is a sign of dishonesty. Such purposeful dishonesty shows a lack of character.

All you are saying here is "yes we screwed over blacks and we stilll do. That it's OK for whites to be given all kinds of things from the government, that it's fine for whites to use everybody elses money and labor to prosper, because whites are entitled to everything in America".

After whites were given land as part of the Homestead Act, I am sure they worked very hard to farm that land. After whites were given loans guaranteed by the government to buy homes, I am pretty sure they worked hard to make the payments. I’m sure that white person who got a business loan blacks were denied only because of race, worked hard to make sure that business was successful. While blacks could not get certain jobs because of race, I’m sure whites who were hired worked hard to remain employed. I’m sure that the whites who got admitted into colleges that did not allow blacks worked hard to get those degrees.

These are things people like foxfyre ignore purposefully. The issue is not how hard whites worked after they got the opportunity. It is the fact they got the chance while others didn’t because of skin color. This reality cannot be ignored.

Dishonest whites try making this an argument only about payment for slavery, but the case For reparations goes far past slavery and the people arguinng about payments for skin color know it. They are race baitiing. The damage caused by atrocities committed against blacks after slavery are numerous and are the reason many blacks suffer right now.

But we can keep going with things as they are and:

“It will end up costing the U.S. economy as much as $1 trillion between now and 2028 for the nation to maintain its longstanding black-white racial wealth gap, according to a report released this month from the global consultancy firm McKinsey & Company. That will be roughly 4 percent of the United States GDP in 2028—just the conservative view, assuming that the wealth growth rates of African Americans will outpace white wealth grow that its current clip of 3 percent to .8 percent annually, said McKinsey. If the gap widens, however, with white wealth growing at a faster rate than black wealth instead, it could end up costing the U.S. $1.5 trillion or 6 percent of GDP.

The economic impact of closing the racial wealth gap

The persistent racial wealth gap in the US is a drag on Black Americans as well as the overall economy. New research quantifies the impact of closing the gap and identifies key sources of this socioeconomic inequity.

www.mckinsey.com

The racism of the right will cost every American money, penalizing non racist whiites and people of color. So how long foxfyre? How long does everybody else have to suffer so that you can prosper? How much more of my money do you think you are entitled to?

 

[Foxfyre]

Whites have depended on nanny government and for 47 years. Sowell and Williams are not the only blacks and there are white scholars who support reparations.



It's very hard to not have contempt for white people with this attitude. They just ignore everything whites have done to stop blacks from progressing then want to try gaslighting people with stuff like this. Foxfyre, you know good and well what whites have done and what whites like you still do. To sit behind a comptuter typing this stuff is a sign of dishonesty. Such purposeful dishonesty shows a lack of character.

All you are saying here is "yes we screwed over blacks and we stilll do. That it's OK for whites to be given all kinds of things from the government, that it's fine for whites to use everybody elses money and labor to prosper, because whites are entitled to everything in America".

After whites were given land as part of the Homestead Act, I am sure they worked very hard to farm that land. After whites were given loans guaranteed by the government to buy homes, I am pretty sure they worked hard to make the payments. I’m sure that white person who got a business loan blacks were denied only because of race, worked hard to make sure that business was successful. While blacks could not get certain jobs because of race, I’m sure whites who were hired worked hard to remain employed. I’m sure that the whites who got admitted into colleges that did not allow blacks worked hard to get those degrees.

These are things people like foxfyre ignore purposefully. The issue is not how hard whites worked after they got the opportunity. It is the fact they got the chance while others didn’t because of skin color. This reality cannot be ignored.

Dishonest whites try making this an argument only about payment for slavery, but the case For reparations goes far past slavery and the people arguinng about payments for skin color know it. They are race baitiing. The damage caused by atrocities committed against blacks after slavery are numerous and are the reason many blacks suffer right now.

But we can keep going with things as they are and:

“It will end up costing the U.S. economy as much as $1 trillion between now and 2028 for the nation to maintain its longstanding black-white racial wealth gap, according to a report released this month from the global consultancy firm McKinsey & Company. That will be roughly 4 percent of the United States GDP in 2028—just the conservative view, assuming that the wealth growth rates of African Americans will outpace white wealth grow that its current clip of 3 percent to .8 percent annually, said McKinsey. If the gap widens, however, with white wealth growing at a faster rate than black wealth instead, it could end up costing the U.S. $1.5 trillion or 6 percent of GDP.

The economic impact of closing the racial wealth gap

The persistent racial wealth gap in the US is a drag on Black Americans as well as the overall economy. New research quantifies the impact of closing the gap and identifies key sources of this socioeconomic inequity.

www.mckinsey.com

The racism of the right will cost every American money, penalizing non racist whiites and people of color. So how long foxfyre? How long does everybody else have to suffer so that you can prosper? How much more of my money do you think you are entitled to?

People like you--people who demand black people are incapable of achieving on their own and the nanny state is required to sustain them and who express contempt for any person who objects to that--have caused far more suffering to people than people like me. That's a fact.

 

[Coyote]

Because they were not alive at the time, they didn't live in the states where Jim Crow laws were enforced, they weren't old enough to be physically or materially harmed by them, they chose to remain in Jim Crow states when they could have left or any number of reasons. Or they found ways to achieve and succeed and reach for
the American dream in spite of Jim Crow laws.

On the first, we are only talking about those who were alive at tbe time.

On the second, Jim Crowe was the law in over a third of the continental US, with about another quarter having some form of race restrictive legislation. In essence what you are saying they could have left or chosen not to travel (visit family etc) in significant portion of the US. How many free Americans would accept that (or be required to accept that) as a condition for living in this country? You? Me? Hell no. Nor would we be expected to accept such an abridgement of our rights.

When it comes to being “old enough” to be harmed…what’s the cut off? How would you determine it?

When it came to Reparations for the interred Japanese Americans, there were no qualifications based on age.

 

[Foxfyre]

On the first, we are only talking about those who were alive at tbe time.

On the second, Jim Crowe was the law in over a third of the continental US, with about another quarter having some form of race restrictive legislation. In essence what you are saying they could have left or chosen not to travel (visit family etc) in significant portion of the US. How many free Americans would accept that (or be required to accept that) as a condition for living in this country? You? Me? Hell no. Nor would we be expected to accept such an abridgement of our rights.

When it comes to being “old enough” to be harmed…what’s the cut off? How would you determine it?

When it came to Reparations for the interred Japanese Americans, there were no qualifications based on age.

Reparations for interred Japanese Americans were paid to citizens who were deprived of their liberty, livelihood, unalienable rights. They were paid ONLY to those who could demonstrate that they suffered that kind of harm.

Now any black person living under Jim Crow laws who can demonstrate material physical or material harm may have a grievance with those who did that harm. Their quarrel is not with the federal government, however, or with people like me. Their quarrel is with those in their state or local communities who did the harm. Let's have them go for damages for that.

 

[IM2]

Because they were not alive at the time, they didn't live in the states where Jim Crow laws were enforced, they weren't old enough to be physically or materially harmed by them, they chose to remain in Jim Crow states when they could have left or any number of reasons. Or they found ways to achieve and succeed and reach for
the American dream in spite of Jim Crow laws.

Jim Crow was enforced in all 50 states.

And then there is this:

“Closing the Black racial wage gap 20 years ago might have provided an additional $2.7 trillion in income available for consumption and investment.

Improving access to housing credit might have added an additional 770,000 Black homeowners over the last 20 years, with combined sales and expenditures adding another $218 billion to GDP over that time.

Facilitating increased access to higher education (college, graduate,and vocational schools) for Black students might have bolstered lifetime incomes that in aggregate sums to $90 to $113 billion.

Providing fair and equitable lending to Black entrepreneurs might have resulted in the creation of an additional $13 trillion in business revenue over the last 20 years. This could have been used for investments in labor, technology, capital equipment, and structures and 6.1 million jobs might have been created per year.”

Closing the Racial Inequality Gaps

Our ambition in this report is for this analysis to bring sober perspective as well as hope to our readers as we collectively find substantive and sustainable opportunities to address the gaps we identify.

www.citigroup.com

Citygroup did a study focusing on U.S. GDP from 2000 until 2020. The study determined that since the year 2000, continuing discriminatory practices in the four areas mentioned above resulted in aloss of 16 trillion dollars in GDP. This is still happening all over America almost 60 years after the Civil Rights Act was passed.

 

[IM2]

Reparations for interred Japanese Americans were paid to citizens who were deprived of their liberty, livelihood, unalienable rights. They were paid ONLY to those who could demonstrate that they suffered that kind of harm.

Now any black person living under Jim Crow laws who can demonstrate material physical or material harm may have a grievance with those who did that harm. Their quarrel is not with the federal government, however, or with people like me. Their quarrel is with those in their state or local communities who did the harm. Let's have them go for damages for that.

Please stop. Because you haven't studied this.. First off, you were told that you were not going to have to pay personally but because the person who told you that was black, you didn't listen. The case is against federal, state and local governments. The evidence of harm exists.

 

[Coyote]

Reparations for interred Japanese Americans were paid to citizens who were deprived of their liberty, livelihood, unalienable rights. They were paid ONLY to those who could demonstrate that they suffered that kind of harm.

They were paid to every one who was interred regardless of age or demonstrated harm.

In order to have been eligible for restitution, an applicant had to have been:

1. alive on August 10, 1988
2. a United States (U.S.) citizen or permanent resident alien during the internment period December 7, 1941 to June 30, 1946
3. a person of Japanese ancestry, or the spouse or parent of a person of Japanese ancestry
4. evacuated, relocated, interned, or otherwise deprived of liberty or property as a result of Federal government action during the internment period and based solely on their Japanese ancestry

Now any black person living under Jim Crow laws who can demonstrate material physical or material harm may have a grievance with those who did that harm. Their quarrel is not with the federal government, however, or with people like me. Their quarrel is with those in their state or local communities who did the harm. Let's have them go for damages for that.

I disagree, tbe federal government was complicit in allowing Jim Crowe to stand.

 

[Lisa558]

On the first, we are only talking about those who were alive at tbe time.

On the second, Jim Crowe was the law in over a third of the continental US, with about another quarter having some form of race restrictive legislation. In essence what you are saying they could have left or chosen not to travel (visit family etc) in significant portion of the US. How many free Americans would accept that (or be required to accept that) as a condition for living in this country? You? Me? Hell no. Nor would we be expected to accept such an abridgement of our rights.

When it comes to being “old enough” to be harmed…what’s the cut off? How would you determine it?

When it came to Reparations for the interred Japanese Americans, there were no qualifications based on age.

How do you KNOW a specific northern black had family down south he wanted to visit in the first place? You’re just saying that he MIGHT and based on that, he gets reparations? Just because he’s black?

 

[Coyote]

How do you KNOW a specific northern black had family down south he wanted to visit in the first place? You’re just saying that he MIGHT and based on that, he gets reparations? Just because he’s black?

No.

“Just because he was Black” meant his rights were violated under Jim Crowe.

 

[Lisa558]

Please stop. Because you haven't studied this.. First off, you were told that you were not going to have to pay personally but because the person who told you that was black, you didn't listen. The case is against federal, state and local governments. The evidence of harm exists.

Governments are funded primarily by whites. That’s who will shoulder most of the burden. Don’t try to “fake us out” by claiming it won’t cost innocent whites and that it’s just the government that pays.

 

[IM2]

Foxfyre,, I''ve studiied these matters and have a published book out. So I'm not going to keep arguing with a person that doesn't know what they are talking about. I've shown you evidence..Go do some research because your feelings and oppinions are not good enough.

 

[Coyote]

Governments are funded primarily by whites. That’s who will shoulder most of the burden. Don’t try to “fake us out” by claiming it won’t cost innocent whites and that it’s just the government that pays.

It will cost the same people that reparations to the interred Japanese Americans cost.

 

[Lisa558]

No.

“Just because he was Black” meant his rights were violated under Jim Crowe.

Not necessarily. Not if he never went to a Jim Crowe state, and instead went to the same schools with white kids, went to the movies like white kids, played in the same parks with whites, rode on the subway with whites, and so forth.

How was he damaged to the point that he should be included with blacks who were punished under Jim Crowe with separate schools, separate everything.

 

[Lisa558]

It will cost the same people that reparations to the interred Japanese Americans cost.

But those specific Japanese were imprisoned. They were robbed of their very liberty. Not so with northern blacks.

 

[Coyote]

Not necessarily. Not if he never went to a Jim Crowe state, and instead went to the same schools with white kids, went to the movies like white kids, played in the same parks with whites, rode on the subway with whites, and so forth.

How was he damaged to the point that he should be included with blacks who were punished under Jim Crowe with separate schools, separate everything.

Because fundamental rights are not determined by state boundaries. He would effectively been prevented from traveling to or through a third of the country.

 

[IM2]

"Governments are funded primarily by whites. That’s who will shoulder most of the burden. Don’t try to “fake us out” by claiming it won’t cost innocent whites and that it’s just the government that pays."

It is the same government that used money non whites paid in taxes to fund programs that excluded them. So Lisa, your argument in light of these FACTS you ignore, is without merit.

 

[Coyote]

But those specific Japanese were imprisoned. They were robbed of their very liberty. Not so with northern blacks.

Liberty is not the only fundamental right.

 

[IM2]

Because fundamental rights are not determined by state boundaries. He would effectively been prevented from traveling to or through a third of the country.

They just keep grasping at any straw they think they can find. You're doing a tremendous job Coyote.

 

[Lisa558]

Because fundamental rights are not determined by state boundaries. He would effectively been prevented from traveling to or through a third of the country.

Blacks weren’t allowed to travel south?

 

[Lisa558]

Liberty is not the only fundamental right.

The northern blacks weren’t deprived of anything of substance. They enjoyed the same lifestyle as their white classmates - which in my father’s class was pretty poor. But they could still go and do the same things as whites.