Bundy Caught Lying about "Ancestral Rights"

[Seawytch]

So a business that depends on roads is thus "stupid and scary?" My house is stupid and scary because I rely on electricity water and gas from something "I don't own?"

Um, what would happen if you didn't PAY for your electricity, water and gas?

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

 

[Statistikhengst]

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

That is an interesting point.

Well, you could pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and install your own solar panel, if you don't like what the utilities are offering.

Thats all fine and dandy in Nevada. In Maine in December? Not so much.

Also in bundy's case he doesnt have enough of his own land to keep his herd. The BLM land was part of the equation, and they decided to take it away from him.

Yes, after he refused to pay his fees. You forgot that part.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Um, what would happen if you didn't PAY for your electricity, water and gas?

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

 

[Sallow]

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

That kinda depends if you are sitting on Federal Land you don't own, don't it?

We all own it, actually, and again its supposed to be used for things like this. it isn't national park land. what the BLM tried to pull off is making it park land, and fuck whoever wants to use the land to make a living, which is their RIGHT.

Yeah Marty.

Seems you have this "situational" idea about how we "all" own things.

Like when Zuccotti Park was taken over..you didn't seem to mind that being shut down.

In any case..

You are defending a fellow who broke the law and has lied about his "claim" to the region.

He's also an anti-American asshole.

Good stuff.

I hope you folks keep this shit up.

Welcome to obscurity.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Okay, so I did some research, and came across a post in another forum

"Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States ...." (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2)... only within the bounds of The Enclave Clause of the Constitution, (Article I, section 8, clause 17), which sets the limits to federal land ownership...

... by giving Congress the power “[t]o exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever” over the District of Columbia and “to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.”

...

Being public land in this case, or be it private land, it's owner cannot lawfully be the federal government, even If the state constitution cedes land ownership to the federal government, "forever."... WHY?... Because the US Constitution forbids the federal government from accepting it. ...Again see Article I, Sec. 8, clause 17, US Constitution.

This was the essence of Bundy's argument, and the reason he sought remedy in a state court..

What do you think?

the land should not be owned by the feds period

 

[Statistikhengst]

Okay, so I did some research, and came across a post in another forum

"Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States ...." (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2)... only within the bounds of The Enclave Clause of the Constitution, (Article I, section 8, clause 17), which sets the limits to federal land ownership...

... by giving Congress the power “[t]o exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever” over the District of Columbia and “to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.”

...

Being public land in this case, or be it private land, it's owner cannot lawfully be the federal government, even If the state constitution cedes land ownership to the federal government, "forever."... WHY?... Because the US Constitution forbids the federal government from accepting it. ...Again see Article I, Sec. 8, clause 17, US Constitution.

This was the essence of Bundy's argument, and the reason he sought remedy in a state court..

What do you think?

the land should not be owned by the feds period

That is one possible view.

But the support for federal ownership of a certain amount of NV land is even enshrined in the NV constitution itself. Don't forget, 50 years ago, this land was much more sparsely populated than even now.

 

[martybegan]

Um, what would happen if you didn't PAY for your electricity, water and gas?

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

It is his fucking land. its all our fucking land, not the BLM's land. They are caretakers, nothing more, and the caretakers have taken the side of a tortoise over a person.

 

[Statistikhengst]

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

It is his fucking land. its all our fucking land, not the BLM's land. They are caretakers, nothing more, and the caretakers have taken the side of a tortoise over a person.

Unless he bought it and has a deed, then that land is not his land.

Using your argument, then every tenement dweller from Chicago or every fisherman from Lousiana could hop in an RV, go out to NV and claim that land as "his".

 

[martybegan]

That kinda depends if you are sitting on Federal Land you don't own, don't it?

We all own it, actually, and again its supposed to be used for things like this. it isn't national park land. what the BLM tried to pull off is making it park land, and fuck whoever wants to use the land to make a living, which is their RIGHT.

Yeah Marty.

Seems you have this "situational" idea about how we "all" own things.

Like when Zuccotti Park was taken over..you didn't seem to mind that being shut down.

In any case..

You are defending a fellow who broke the law and has lied about his "claim" to the region.

He's also an anti-American asshole.

Good stuff.

I hope you folks keep this shit up.

Welcome to obscurity.

Considering that is actually private property given over for public use under a set of conditions, It appears you are comparing apples and circuit boards.

He is not anti-american, he opposes policies of the federal government. I remember a time when progressive such as yourself called that patriotic.

Hypocrites.

 

[Sallow]

Okay, so I did some research, and came across a post in another forum

"Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States ...." (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2)... only within the bounds of The Enclave Clause of the Constitution, (Article I, section 8, clause 17), which sets the limits to federal land ownership...

... by giving Congress the power “[t]o exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever” over the District of Columbia and “to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.”

...

Being public land in this case, or be it private land, it's owner cannot lawfully be the federal government, even If the state constitution cedes land ownership to the federal government, "forever."... WHY?... Because the US Constitution forbids the federal government from accepting it. ...Again see Article I, Sec. 8, clause 17, US Constitution.

This was the essence of Bundy's argument, and the reason he sought remedy in a state court..

What do you think?

the land should not be owned by the feds period

The "feds" made war on Mexico and got the land as part of a peace treaty.

You bet your bottom dollar they own it.

Like a boss.

 

[martybegan]

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

It is his fucking land. its all our fucking land, not the BLM's land. They are caretakers, nothing more, and the caretakers have taken the side of a tortoise over a person.

Unless he bought it and has a deed, then that land is not his land.

Using your argument, then every tenement dweller from Chicago or every fisherman from Lousiana could hop in an RV, go out to NV and claim that land as "his".

I have a feeling a tenement dweller would not last long on the land, it isn't very forgiving, and there are no power hookups.

The land's purpose was public use, grazing being one of the public uses. The land in the area under private ownership has value based on the premise that you can use the public land for a modest fee. Then the BLM decides to change that, and to not compensate the people being affected.

 

[Sallow]

We all own it, actually, and again its supposed to be used for things like this. it isn't national park land. what the BLM tried to pull off is making it park land, and fuck whoever wants to use the land to make a living, which is their RIGHT.

Yeah Marty.

Seems you have this "situational" idea about how we "all" own things.

Like when Zuccotti Park was taken over..you didn't seem to mind that being shut down.

In any case..

You are defending a fellow who broke the law and has lied about his "claim" to the region.

He's also an anti-American asshole.

Good stuff.

I hope you folks keep this shit up.

Welcome to obscurity.

Considering that is actually private property given over for public use under a set of conditions, It appears you are comparing apples and circuit boards.

He is not anti-american, he opposes policies of the federal government. I remember a time when progressive such as yourself called that patriotic.

Hypocrites.

Yeah..Marty.

Clever.

The park is part of a public plaza and is maintained in part with public money.

But don't let those little facts get in your way.

And YES, he is ANTI-AMERICAN.

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is an institution created by the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Part and parcel with that is the Justice Department. When you've had your day in court you are EXPECTED to abide by the decisions of the said court.

Bundy BROKE the law.

Doesn't that even matter to you?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Okay, so I did some research, and came across a post in another forum



What do you think?

the land should not be owned by the feds period

That is one possible view.

But the support for federal ownership of a certain amount of NV land is even enshrined in the NV constitution itself. Don't forget, 50 years ago, this land was much more sparsely populated than even now.

support for federal ownership of a certain amount of NV land is even enshrined in the NV constitution itself

yes ironic and meaningless at the same time

according to supremacy clause

 

[jon_berzerk]

Okay, so I did some research, and came across a post in another forum



What do you think?

the land should not be owned by the feds period

The "feds" made war on Mexico and got the land as part of a peace treaty.

You bet your bottom dollar they own it.

Like a boss.

Nevada is not a territory anymore

 

[koshergrl]

He also didn't participate in an armed resistance. His facebook page repeatedly asked that people not come with arms..the objective was to show the feds up as aggressors.

And they did just that. The statists who approve of the feds actions are a tiny minority, and insane besides. They are the people who don't understand words like "forefathers" and who don't care about the rights of individuals, period. They are people who think human and civil rights violations are a-ok because they hate rural Americans...and anyone else who doesn't support totalitarianism.

They're sheep. They think that because they need government to tell them how to live, that everybody else should be forced to abide under a tyrannical government....and like it, or else.

 

[Seawytch]

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

It is his fucking land. its all our fucking land, not the BLM's land. They are caretakers, nothing more, and the caretakers have taken the side of a tortoise over a person.

Yes...caretakers for a FEE. All he has to do is pay for the use. It's not his land and WE THE PEOPLE decided that land needed to be protected or another animal species would die off because of what WE did.

Will that "person" die if he can only have 50 cows on land that is not his and not 100 cows? No, but those tortoises were completely disappearing.

 

[martybegan]

Yeah Marty.

Seems you have this "situational" idea about how we "all" own things.

Like when Zuccotti Park was taken over..you didn't seem to mind that being shut down.

In any case..

You are defending a fellow who broke the law and has lied about his "claim" to the region.

He's also an anti-American asshole.

Good stuff.

I hope you folks keep this shit up.

Welcome to obscurity.

Considering that is actually private property given over for public use under a set of conditions, It appears you are comparing apples and circuit boards.

He is not anti-american, he opposes policies of the federal government. I remember a time when progressive such as yourself called that patriotic.

Hypocrites.

Yeah..Marty.

Clever.

The park is part of a public plaza and is maintained in part with public money.

But don't let those little facts get in your way.

And YES, he is ANTI-AMERICAN.

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is an institution created by the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Part and parcel with that is the Justice Department. When you've had your day in court you are EXPECTED to abide by the decisions of the said court.

Bundy BROKE the law.

Doesn't that even matter to you?

No, it isn't. In NYC certain buildings get the air rights to build higher than a certain level in exchange for providing a public space on their own PRIVATE property, and maintaining it. \

Privately owned public space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Privately owned public spaces in New York City were introduced as a formal concept in a 1961 zoning resolution. The city offers zoning concessions to commercial and residential developers in exchange for a variety of spaces accessible and usable for the public.[2]

And Martin Luther King Jr broke tons of laws during his protest. Was he Anti-american as well?

 

[jillian]

So a business that depends on roads is thus "stupid and scary?" My house is stupid and scary because I rely on electricity water and gas from something "I don't own?"

Um, what would happen if you didn't PAY for your electricity, water and gas?

What if the electric company decided I only needed 25% of the kilowatts I wanted? What if the gas company decided to shut my gas off because of a turtle?

you take a gun to your electric and gas company?

if someone did that, you'd say they should go to jail.

just like these people should be tried for raising their weapons against their government.

 

[Sallow]

the land should not be owned by the feds period

The "feds" made war on Mexico and got the land as part of a peace treaty.

You bet your bottom dollar they own it.

Like a boss.

Nevada is not a territory anymore

Yep.

It's a state.

And that state is part of the United States.

And the Federal Government definitely has Jurisdiction over federal lands.

You understand that, right?

 

[martybegan]

You'd pay or you'd have your gas shut off, right? You really think you have the right to arm yourself against the utility company if they shut you off? Really?

Bundy is getting a sweet deal. $1.35 a month per cow. Know how much he'd be paying another rancher to eat his grass? $16 bucks per.

It's not his fucking land. He either abides by the rules or gets his fucking cows off land that does not belong to him. This is not a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many cows they say he can have on land that is not his...it's NOT HIS.

It is his fucking land. its all our fucking land, not the BLM's land. They are caretakers, nothing more, and the caretakers have taken the side of a tortoise over a person.

Yes...caretakers for a FEE. All he has to do is pay for the use. It's not his land and WE THE PEOPLE decided that land needed to be protected or another animal species would die off because of what WE did.

Will that "person" die if he can only have 50 cows on land that is not his and not 100 cows? No, but those tortoises were completely disappearing.

The people didn't decide. No law was passed. what happened is some unaccountable FEDERAL bureaucracy decided to screw him over, and FEDERAL judges agreed to the screwing.

Find other ways to save the tortoises and allow him to ranch as he wants to. But progressive like you are lazy, and go for the easy solution, ban this, restrict that, and fuck anyone who disagrees.