Bundy Caught Lying about "Ancestral Rights"

[koshergrl]

Those are long-standing. They reach back to before the BLM landgrab.

It's just more evidence that this goons just spout nonsense in order to get what they want..

and what they want is to chase the people from their rural homes, so they can *preserve* those lands for the very rich to enjoy during vacation....or alternately, to set up windmills.

 

[Old Rocks]

He didn't lie, the OP is a lie and it has been shown that the progressive posters either don't know what a forefather is, or they're trying to change the definition to suit their accusation.

Name the "forefather" that was there in 1877. The earliest ancestor anyone can find was BORN 1901, so they weren't working cattle in 1877. Furthermore, the Bundys left Bunkerville and there were none living there in the 1930 and 1940 census' so any ancestral claim to the Bunkerville land was abandoned and forfeited when they left the area.

Yeah..who is *they*?

It doesn't matter. Anyway, the OP is a lie, the fact that his parents didn't always live in Nevada doesn't prove he was lying about his forefathers. Meh.

So, you and a bunch of other idiots went full in to protect a fraud and a liar. And now you are doubling down on stupidity.

 

[MisterBeale]

You cant claim something unless you have proof to back it up. He doesnt have a claim at all. Its been public land since 1864. If he owned it or had rights where is his documentation?

He DID have an agreement with the BLM, he grazed on those lands just fine until BLM tried to lower the cattle limits to the point where his herd was un-viable. That he HAD a right to the land isn't in dispute. what is in dispute is how much the BLM can unilaterally change the terms of said agreement.

The BLM recognizes his right to be there, they just modified the # of cattle and the costs. and his point is they cannot do that unilaterally.

Why not? They are in charge of managing it. Who says they cant do it unilaterally? Yes there was a dispute. He wasnt paying his grazing fees. He had zero rights to be there.

Why not? Because we are a representative republic, not a bureaucratic dictatorship. I think you miss the point.

He WAS paying his grazing fees until the BLM decided to manage is ranch out of business. His thought process was, "why should I pay them to put ME out of business, when clearly I'M not having any input on the matter? " The BLM had zero right to unilaterally change the management of that land, which concerned the livelihood of his family and the community, without input from the community members. Which clearly, that's what it proceeded to do. As has been pointed out numerous times, they did so, not for 'environmental reasons,' but for competing political and economic reasons. Thus, the resultant range war. If folks in the area had been given the chance to vote on it, I suppose it would not have come to this. But, as is always the case in America, money and power now settle everything, not "democracy." To think otherwise it to just be plain obtuse.

In the form of government we are supposed to have, (a representative republic,) this form of tyranny is not supposed to occur. The rights of the minority are supposed to be protected.

 

[koshergrl]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

[edthecynic]

..."No Bundys lived in Bunkerville according to 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census records, but the rancher’s maternal grandparents, John and Christena Jensen, homesteaded a few miles away, in Mesquite, where his mother was born in 1924."

Property records cast doubt on Cliven Bundy?s ancestral claims to disputed federal land | The Raw Story

But his parents were not living in Nevada for the 1930 and 1949 census' because they lived in Bundyville, ARIZONA until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

 

[Dot Com]

I hate liars like him sooo much!!! because he's a deadbeat on top of that.

 

[Old Rocks]

Those are long-standing. They reach back to before the BLM landgrab.

It's just more evidence that this goons just spout nonsense in order to get what they want..

and what they want is to chase the people from their rural homes, so they can *preserve* those lands for the very rich to enjoy during vacation....or alternately, to set up windmills.

I really don't think that section of Nevada is exactly a mecca for rich vacationers. For nuts like myself that like the high desert, but, definately, not for most people. And even if they were setting up windmills on that land, how would that affect the cattle grazing? You are not only getting strident in your nonsense, you are getting irrational.

And there was never a BLM landgrab. Quite often it was the locals that petitioned the government to take over the management of the land to prevent degradation of that land and the resources on it.

 

[CaféAuLait]

..."No Bundys lived in Bunkerville according to 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census records, but the rancher’s maternal grandparents, John and Christena Jensen, homesteaded a few miles away, in Mesquite, where his mother was born in 1924."

Property records cast doubt on Cliven Bundy?s ancestral claims to disputed federal land | The Raw Story

But his parents were not living in Nevada for the 1930 and 1949 census' because they lived in Bundyville, ARIZONA until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

And where were his grandparents and great grandparents living? You know the people who gave birth to his grandmother and father while living in Nevada in 1901 and 1924?

Separate records from the website FamilySearch, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, indicate that Christena Jensen was born in Nevada in 1901 and that Bodel Jensen was born in Nevada in 1924. Christena Jensen’s parents originally were from Utah. This is the side of the family where Cliven Bundy claims long-standing livestock water rights.

Where were Christena Jensen parents living in 1901? Did they own land in Nevada since that is where she was born? How about Bodel Jensen, also born in Nevada? What land were they living on when they gave birth to these kids and did they own land near his ranch where his parents bought land?

 

[jon_berzerk]

And here's the proof of the mitigation project. Ta da. Put it up a million times before, but what's one more time to get the truth out about how the government really doesn't give a shit about the environment.

Green energy projects vs environment. Government is running with green energy. Twenty more projects look like they will be approved and the desert will never be the same.


RENEWABLE ENERGY:
Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses

Phil Taylor, E&E reporter
Greenwire: Tuesday, January 28, 2014


And from the article.

Gold Butte was chosen as a mitigation site for Dry Lake because it harbors similar plant and animal life, including the desert tortoise, and because it is ineligible for special funding available to BLM's National Landscape Conservation System.

In addition, Gold Butte's native creosote-bursage vegetation is expected to persist longer under climate change than other ACECs, and its tortoise habitat is expected to persist even as it shrinks or disappears in the surrounding region.

As acres are developed at Dry Lake, mitigation fees would help pay for restoration of similar acres at Gold Butte.

RENEWABLE ENERGY: Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses -- Tuesday, January 28, 2014 -- www.eenews.net

you can read the whole thing right here

2-6 Priority/order of Gold Butte Area of Critical Environmental Concern
mitigation goals and objectives____________________________________________________________ 34

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/blm_library/tech_notes.Par.29872.File.dat/TN_444.pdf

 

[edthecynic]

Even from the website calling him a liar, they PROVE his case, therefore, I'm confused:

They say for his Grandparents on his mothers side, Christena Jensen:

Separate records from the website FamilySearch, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, indicate that Christena Jensen was born in Nevada in 1901 and that Bodel Jensen was born in Nevada in 1924. Christena Jensen’s parents originally were from Utah. This is the side of the family where Cliven Bundy claims long-standing livestock water rights.

An abbreviated look at rancher Cliven Bundy's family history - 8 News NOW

Where was Christena Jensen born in Nevada in 1901 , where in Nevada where HER parents ( his GREAT GRANDPARENTS) living? What land did they own in Nevada where his grandmother was born? Obviously, they lived there.

His parents were not living in Nevada at the time of the 1930 and 1940 census' because they were living in Bundyville Arizona until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

 

[edthecynic]

..."No Bundys lived in Bunkerville according to 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census records, but the rancher’s maternal grandparents, John and Christena Jensen, homesteaded a few miles away, in Mesquite, where his mother was born in 1924."

Property records cast doubt on Cliven Bundy?s ancestral claims to disputed federal land | The Raw Story

But his parents were not living in Nevada for the 1930 and 1949 census' because they lived in Bundyville, ARIZONA until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

And where were his grandparents and great grandparents living? You know the people who gave birth to his grandmother and father while living in Nevada in 1901 and 1924?

Separate records from the website FamilySearch, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, indicate that Christena Jensen was born in Nevada in 1901 and that Bodel Jensen was born in Nevada in 1924. Christena Jensen’s parents originally were from Utah. This is the side of the family where Cliven Bundy claims long-standing livestock water rights.

Where were Christena Jensen parents living in 1901? Did they own land in Nevada since that is where she was born? How about Bodel Jensen, also born in Nevada? What land were they living on when they gave birth to these kids and did they own land near his ranch where his parents bought land?

They were not living in Bunkerville according to the census, so for all YOU know they were pushing up daisies.

 

[jon_berzerk]

You cant claim something unless you have proof to back it up. He doesnt have a claim at all. Its been public land since 1864. If he owned it or had rights where is his documentation?

He DID have an agreement with the BLM, he grazed on those lands just fine until BLM tried to lower the cattle limits to the point where his herd was un-viable. That he HAD a right to the land isn't in dispute. what is in dispute is how much the BLM can unilaterally change the terms of said agreement.

The BLM recognizes his right to be there, they just modified the # of cattle and the costs. and his point is they cannot do that unilaterally.

No, the BLM recognizes his right to graze if he pays for the grazing rights. And the land has been in drought for a long time, lowering the amount of cattle that can be grazed without damaging the land. As a landlord, the BLM does have the right to raise the price of grazing permits, and to limit the number of cattle on the land.

No, the BLM recognizes his right to graze if he pays for the grazing rights.

well no BLM ordered all cattle off the bunkerville allotment back in the 90s

Updated August 13, 2013 - 11:35am

Bunkerville rancher appeals ruling on cattle grazing on Gold Butte range | Las Vegas Review-Journal

in other areas of gold butte they (BLM) has allowed up to 150 head

not nearly enough to ranch

 

[CaféAuLait]

Even from the website calling him a liar, they PROVE his case, therefore, I'm confused:

They say for his Grandparents on his mothers side, Christena Jensen:

Separate records from the website FamilySearch, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, indicate that Christena Jensen was born in Nevada in 1901 and that Bodel Jensen was born in Nevada in 1924. Christena Jensen’s parents originally were from Utah. This is the side of the family where Cliven Bundy claims long-standing livestock water rights.

An abbreviated look at rancher Cliven Bundy's family history - 8 News NOW

Where was Christena Jensen born in Nevada in 1901 , where in Nevada where HER parents ( his GREAT GRANDPARENTS) living? What land did they own in Nevada where his grandmother was born? Obviously, they lived there.

His parents were not living in Nevada at the time of the 1930 and 1940 census' because they were living in Bundyville Arizona until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

I did not ask about his parents. I asked about Christena Jensen’s parents, everyone keeps calling him a liar about his ancestors, but the above shows his great grandparent were living in Nevada when Christena Jensen was born in 1901.

^where were her parent living in Nevada, his ancestors? Did they own any land there?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Those are long-standing. They reach back to before the BLM landgrab.

It's just more evidence that this goons just spout nonsense in order to get what they want..

and what they want is to chase the people from their rural homes, so they can *preserve* those lands for the very rich to enjoy during vacation....or alternately, to set up windmills.

I really don't think that section of Nevada is exactly a mecca for rich vacationers. For nuts like myself that like the high desert, but, definately, not for most people. And even if they were setting up windmills on that land, how would that affect the cattle grazing? You are not only getting strident in your nonsense, you are getting irrational.

And there was never a BLM landgrab. Quite often it was the locals that petitioned the government to take over the management of the land to prevent degradation of that land and the resources on it.

There is nothing quite like the luxury of vacationing in the ritzy Mojave Desert. You can take a walk and count the rattlesnakes, get a nice sun tan, take picture of tarantula's and scorpions, and drink from barrel cactuses. Who needs St. Thomas villas?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Even from the website calling him a liar, they PROVE his case, therefore, I'm confused:

They say for his Grandparents on his mothers side, Christena Jensen:

Separate records from the website FamilySearch, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, indicate that Christena Jensen was born in Nevada in 1901 and that Bodel Jensen was born in Nevada in 1924. Christena Jensen’s parents originally were from Utah. This is the side of the family where Cliven Bundy claims long-standing livestock water rights.

An abbreviated look at rancher Cliven Bundy's family history - 8 News NOW

Where was Christena Jensen born in Nevada in 1901 , where in Nevada where HER parents ( his GREAT GRANDPARENTS) living? What land did they own in Nevada where his grandmother was born? Obviously, they lived there.

His parents were not living in Nevada at the time of the 1930 and 1940 census' because they were living in Bundyville Arizona until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

bundyville now a ghost town shared the same grazing lands as bunkerville

 

[rdean]

Funny. How many blatant lies has Obama been caught in?

The hypocrisy of the liberal morons continues.

That, is what is funny. Well, more pathetic than funny.

Let me know if you want me to list the lies.

I don't know. How many? And what does that have to do with a guy refusing to pay a bill every other rancher in Nevada pays when using federal grazing land?

 

[Plasmaball]

Nobody cares about Bundy. They're just sick of the feds.

It isn't going to stop here.

This sounds a lot like Sharpton's remarks when he found out Tawana Brawley had lied about being kidnapped and raped by policemen.

Sharpton claimed that policemen DID kidnap and rape black women, so the noise he made about the liar's case was justified and should continue.



Yes, the federal gov't is over-stepping its authority. But backing the lying rancher is not a just cause. At least have the decency to admit that.

I don't care that Bundy didn't pay the feds because I think paying the feds for land that they stole from the people is horseshit.

The way they handled it is also horseshit.

It's as good a starting point as any. Don't worry, there will be more over-stepping by the feds, and soon, and it will be egregious enough that Bundy will just be a tiny ripple before the tsunami.

they didnt steal it. Mexico did

 

[CaféAuLait]

But his parents were not living in Nevada for the 1930 and 1949 census' because they lived in Bundyville, ARIZONA until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

And where were his grandparents and great grandparents living? You know the people who gave birth to his grandmother and father while living in Nevada in 1901 and 1924?

Separate records from the website FamilySearch, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, indicate that Christena Jensen was born in Nevada in 1901 and that Bodel Jensen was born in Nevada in 1924. Christena Jensen’s parents originally were from Utah. This is the side of the family where Cliven Bundy claims long-standing livestock water rights.

Where were Christena Jensen parents living in 1901? Did they own land in Nevada since that is where she was born? How about Bodel Jensen, also born in Nevada? What land were they living on when they gave birth to these kids and did they own land near his ranch where his parents bought land?

They were not living in Bunkerville according to the census, so for all YOU know they were pushing up daisies.

Yet, his grandparents helped 'settle' Bunkerville, sounds like there is a lot more to this story than even those trying to discredit him want to admit. They were also homesteading and raising cattle a few miles away...

Property records cast doubt on Cliven Bundy?s ancestral claims to disputed federal land | The Raw Story

http://aes.missouri.edu/fsrc/research/afgc95h2.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Nevada

 

[edthecynic]

Even from the website calling him a liar, they PROVE his case, therefore, I'm confused:

They say for his Grandparents on his mothers side, Christena Jensen:


An abbreviated look at rancher Cliven Bundy's family history - 8 News NOW

Where was Christena Jensen born in Nevada in 1901 , where in Nevada where HER parents ( his GREAT GRANDPARENTS) living? What land did they own in Nevada where his grandmother was born? Obviously, they lived there.

His parents were not living in Nevada at the time of the 1930 and 1940 census' because they were living in Bundyville Arizona until they bought the ranch in 1948.

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

bundyville now a ghost town shared the same grazing lands as bunkerville

No it didn't. Bundyville, Arazona is 60 miles Southeast of Bunkerville, Nevada.

 

[edthecynic]

And where were his grandparents and great grandparents living? You know the people who gave birth to his grandmother and father while living in Nevada in 1901 and 1924?
Where were Christena Jensen parents living in 1901? Did they own land in Nevada since that is where she was born? How about Bodel Jensen, also born in Nevada? What land were they living on when they gave birth to these kids and did they own land near his ranch where his parents bought land?

They were not living in Bunkerville according to the census, so for all YOU know they were pushing up daisies.

Yet, his grandparents helped 'settle' Bunkerville, sounds like there is a lot more to this story than even those trying to discredit him want to admit. They were also homesteading and raising cattle a few miles away...

Property records cast doubt on Cliven Bundy?s ancestral claims to disputed federal land | The Raw Story

http://aes.missouri.edu/fsrc/research/afgc95h2.stm

History of Nevada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But by the 1930 and 1940 census' there were no Bundys living in Bunkerville. Obviously the grandparents either left or died.