Bush and Officials Lied leading up to Iraq war

[Alpha1]

Look man...You can recite things that were said, post quotes and cite actions that occured....and they can and do look damning at first blush......

but the fact is, that WHEN each of the things are said, and each of the actions actually occur, that can does paint a whole and different and a more coherent picture of the history. Not just different but more factual....

If I state in 2001 what I believe to be factual and in 2006 its proven no to be factual....its blantenly ridiculous to claim I was lying.....

and that is exactly what the left constantly does, over and over....
along with parsing the verbs used and tense of the verbs ad nausium....
not to mention that they ignore these things when it comes to analyzing their own.....its tiresome.

 

[maineman]

Cheney's statements placing the leader of the 9/11 hijackers with Iraqi intelligence certainly tied Saddam to 9/11.

I firmly believe that Bush and his party beat the war drums and misled us into war.... it is certainly not time to get over it or to let America forget it happened. There is an election in nine months and your party is running a guy who has been the war's biggest cheerleader. I think it is imperative that the misleading and poor judgment of the Bush administration be tied directly to McCain and to the republican party. They deserve to have the keys taken away, IMHO.

 

[maineman]

Look man...You can recite things that were said, post quotes and cite actions that occured....and they can and do look damning at first blush......

but the fact is, that WHEN each of the things are said, and each of the actions actually occur, that can does paint a whole and different and a more coherent picture of the history. Not just different but more factual....

If I state in 2001 what I believe to be factual and in 2006 its proven no to be factual....its blantenly ridiculous to claim I was lying.....

and that is exactly what the left constantly does, over and over....
along with parsing the verbs used and tense of the verbs ad nausium....
not to mention that they ignore these things when it comes to analyzing their own.....its tiresome.

And again... I will not forgive a democrat who supported this war unless he or she repents and admits the error. I don't give anyone a free pass for warmongering.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And again... I will not forgive a democrat who supported this war unless he or she repents and admits the error. I don't give anyone a free pass for warmongering.

So when or if Hillary wins the Nomination, you will be sitting out the election?

 

[maineman]

So when or if Hillary wins the Nomination, you will be sitting out the election?

probably not...but I won't stuff a single envelope or knock on a single door or spend election day driving voters to the polls. If I balance HER position on Iraq with McCain's, she is clearly the lesser of two evils, and she is standing on a party platform that I have always endorsed. I didn't vote for her in MY caucus and I cheer every Obama victory.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

probably not...but I won't stuff a single envelope or knock on a single door or spend election day driving voters to the polls. If I balance HER position on Iraq with McCain's, she is clearly the lesser of two evils, and she is standing on a party platform that I have always endorsed. I didn't vote for her in MY caucus and I cheer every Obama victory.

You have seen the new thread?

 

[maineman]

You have seen the new thread?

yes I have..and responded to it.

 

[Alpha1]

You have no idea about my or anyone else's "intelligence" here. What you do have is an attitude that anyone that does not lick your boots is stupid. Anyone that does not allow you to tell them what to think and how to respond is stupid. Your arrogant and a partisan hack.

My IQ has fluctuated from 137 to 126 over the years. Which may not make me a super brain but I am hardly ignorant or stupid. I joined the Marine Corps on an open contract and THEY sent me to Electronics School where I was 1st in my class and went on to Crypto school on an Army Base. The Marine Corps does not let dumb people represent them in other service schools, especially technical schools. I graduated 2nd in that School. Got beat out by a very good National Guard Sgt. Though he already knew the equipment before he ever came to the school.

Every professional school I attended in the Marine Corps I graduated first in my class. And I made GySgt before I was in 11 years.

When I went to College my grade point average was 3.73. That was in Accounting and years later I did the same with General courses. If I hadn't gotten to sick to continue I was working on a degree that would allow me to be a computer programmer. Hadn't decided if I would do a 4 year Business degree or a specialized Degree, both would have allowed my chosen path.

When I was in the National Guard before joining the Marine Corps my command put me up for Officer training with less than 3 months in the unit. I was rejected because the board wanted me to have at least 18 months in the Guard first. I was told to reapply once I had the 18 months. I joined the Marine Corps before that happened.

Even as a Cpl. I was always in charge of something, this in a field where SSgts were just techs a lot of times. As a Sgt I ran a section that a GySgt was supposed to run. Not because there were no GySgt's available, but because I was so good at it.

As a Sgt I was sent to be an Instructor at my former school ON AN Army Base. Normally only SSgt and above were assigned there and in fact I was the ONLY Sgt not already selected for SSgt there. At the end of 4 years the school wanted me to stay and I could have but chose to move to the Fleet. I was a SSgt by then. I served in 2nd Mar Div and 3rd Mar Div Hqs Bn Comm Co. I was a GySgt with in less than 2 years of leaving Instructor Duty.

I would bet dollars to dough nuts Alpha is no slouch either.

Holy shit....Whaoooa thairrrr Nelly.....
My resume don't have those kinds of credentials associated with it...though I can claim to match you in IQ.....(but then that silly number doesn't impress me a great deal)...electronics was my bag also, can't claim I was ever on the verge of inventing anything though....so I don't claim to be, in fact, special in any way....I've encountered some pretty sharp people online, and some foolish ones.....

If I choose to debate somebody, or choose to post a thoughtful reply to somebody, you can be sure its because I consider them a worthy opponent and an equal....(but misguided)

...I try to use the common sense I have, the logical thinking I learned, and will put my morals, fairness, judgment, and sense of justice up against anyone....I view myself as Mr. Blue Collar, better known as Joe Sixpack...and damn proud of it.....and absolutely not a slouch

 

[maineman]

You have no idea about my or anyone else's "intelligence" here. What you do have is an attitude that anyone that does not lick your boots is stupid. Anyone that does not allow you to tell them what to think and how to respond is stupid. Your arrogant and a partisan hack.

I have never asked you, or anyone else to lick my boots, I have never asked anyone to allow me to tell them what to think. I have suggested that having a dialog with questions and responses is more productive than merely bombarding the board with cut and paste op-ed pieces and one liners from Rush (as RSR would do). I have suggested that there are areas of discussion that I am more qualified to discuss than others. I do not presume any experiential edge about tax policy or social policy or environmental policy. I do about the middle east, and that area only (unless, of course, we were talking about hunting submarines or Navy football or good scotch...I might step into those discussions with an edge as well) I have suggested that when people make claims about other members that they back them up or retract them.

I will not deny the sin of arrogance.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have never asked you, or anyone else to lick my boots, I have never asked anyone to allow me to tell them what to think. I have suggested that having a dialog with questions and responses is more productive than merely bombarding the board with cut and paste op-ed pieces and one liners from Rush (as RSR would do). I have suggested that there are areas of discussion that I am more qualified to discuss than others. I do not presume any experiential edge about tax policy or social policy or environmental policy. I do about the middle east, and that area only (unless, of course, we were talking about hunting submarines or Navy football or good scotch...I might step into those discussions with an edge as well) I have suggested that when people make claims about other members that they back them up or retract them.

I will not deny the sin of arrogance.

And then we have this....

I have suggested that when people make claims about other members that they back them up or retract them.

You may want to change that sentence or actually delete it since YOU have on several occasions made specific claims about me and other veterans on this board, all for the folly of disagreeing with you. And you have NEVER backed them up nor retracted them. You just eventually agree to stop making them. And when pushed say " ok you are a retired...." until the next time you get mad and then you start all over again.

In fact you have NOT retracted your last claim I am not a retired Marine GySgt. You just stopped making it.

 

[Alpha1]

Cheney's statements placing the leader of the 9/11 hijackers with Iraqi intelligence certainly tied Saddam to 9/11.


This is the main hangup with you and me.....You will keep saying "Cheney's" statements...while in fact it was the claims of a foreign intell service....expressed by Cheney and though both of us speak a fact....my view is more accurate and gives the truth perspective of the issue........

Cheney didn't lie, didn't state an untruth, and therefore could not in reality mis-lead anyone.....the intell was probably incorrect and thats irrelevant and that makes it unjust to imply Cheney was guilty of some wrongdoing....

That happened in 2001 and in the year 2004, our own CIA STILL couldn't positively say the claim was false....more settle down and consider what I've said......does that fact resonate with you at all

I firmly believe that Bush and his party beat the war drums and misled us into war.... it is certainly not time to get over it or to let America forget it happened. There is an election in nine months and your party is running a guy who has been the war's biggest cheerleader. I think it is imperative that the misleading and poor judgment of the Bush administration be tied directly to McCain and to the republican party. They deserve to have the keys taken away, IMHO.

I know what you firmly believe and how you remember what Bush and Cheney said while conveniently forgetting what your Dims said....

you remember what was said without any concept of why and in what context statements were made or consideration of the timeline.... sorry man...that makes you a hack...

Bush utters 'no doubt' and Gore says 'We know' and I could go on with Pelosi and others....but in the end your simply can't see from any other perspective but the one your glued to....so the debate is a useless exercise.....
we continue to disagree....carry one, mate

 

[maineman]

I know what you firmly believe and how you remember what Bush and Cheney said while conveniently forgetting what your Dims said....

you remember what was said without any concept of why and in what context statements were made or consideration of the timeline.... sorry man...that makes you a hack...

Bush utters 'no doubt' and Gore says 'We know' and I could go on with Pelosi and others....but in the end your simply can't see from any other perspective but the one your glued to....so the debate is a useless exercise.....
we continue to disagree....carry one, mate

I know what democrats said and I know that I have repeated oftentimes that I will not forgive and fully support any democrat who voted for the war or who beat the drums for war until they repent.

So...was Cheney ASKED about Atta or did he offer the name up first in the interview?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I know what democrats said and I know that I have repeated oftentimes that I will not forgive and fully support any democrat who voted for the war or who beat the drums for war until they repent.

So...was Cheney ASKED about Atta or did he offer the name up first in the interview?

Who cares, it is irrelevant to the discussion. Cheney was simply repeating intel provided by an allied Country. Intel that if true was important in establishing links to Saddam Hussein and Terrorism. He also stated for the record NO link to Saddam Hussein and 9/11.

 

[maineman]

And then we have this....



You may want to change that sentence or actually delete it since YOU have on several occasions made specific claims about me and other veterans on this board, all for the folly of disagreeing with you. And you have NEVER backed them up nor retracted them. You just eventually agree to stop making them. And when pushed say " ok you are a retired...." until the next time you get mad and then you start all over again.

In fact you have NOT retracted your last claim I am not a retired Marine GySgt. You just stopped making it.

I don't think I have ever attacked a veteran's service because I considered their disagreement with me, folly. And we both know that your repeated claims about "other veterans" are not supportable.... if they were, you would produce quotes to support them. In any case, I certainly believe that you are a retired Marine GySgt. I most always disagree with your politics, but I do not deny your service and I retract any denigration of that service that I might have expressed in the heat of arguments... and I would say the same thing to the phantom "other veterans" whoever they may be.

 

[maineman]

Who cares, it is irrelevant to the discussion. Cheney was simply repeating intel provided by an allied Country. Intel that if true was important in establishing links to Saddam Hussein and Terrorism. He also stated for the record NO link to Saddam Hussein and 9/11.

If he claimed a link between Atta and Iraq BEFORE 9/11, he certainly created a link between Saddam and 9/11. Simple logic tells us that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If he claimed a link between Atta and Iraq BEFORE 9/11, he certainly created a link between Saddam and 9/11. Simple logic tells us that.

NO it does not. Further he STATED at the time there was NO link with 9/11. Most of the Hijackers were Saudi, using your logic we should have bombed them. Your simple logic at work.

 

[maineman]

NO it does not. Further he STATED at the time there was NO link with 9/11. Most of the Hijackers were Saudi, using your logic we should have bombed them. Your simple logic at work.

Of course it does. you are being willfully blind. If there were a terrible attack on San Fransisco on the 4th of July 2008 and we know that the man who was responsible was, for argument's sake, named actsnoblemartin. And then, in August of that year, the mayor of San Fransisco said, "In regards to the July 4th attacks, there are reports that actsnoblemartin had been seen in Los Angeles meeting with RetiredGySgt two weeks BEFORE the attack", are you really suggesting that people would not immediately think that you might very well have be involved with the attacks? Are you saying that a connection would not have been logically made?

 

[DeadCanDance]

NO it does not. Further he STATED at the time there was NO link with 9/11. Most of the Hijackers were Saudi, using your logic we should have bombed them. Your simple logic at work.

Bush also never claimed the Taliban knew about, or were involved in planning or executing the 9/11 plot. They were merely harboring al qaeda. Which is why we took out the taliban.

Which is one the primary reasons Bush gave for attacking Iraq: that Iraq was harboring, training, and providing assistance to al qaeda. That, like the taliban, he was an ally of al qaeda.

Which was flat out false.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Of course it does. you are being willfully blind. If there were a terrible attack on San Fransisco on the 4th of July 2008 and we know that the man who was responsible was, for argument's sake, named actsnoblemartin. And then, in August of that year, the mayor of San Fransisco said, "In regards to the July 4th attacks, there are reports that actsnoblemartin had been seen in Los Angeles meeting with RetiredGySgt two weeks BEFORE the attack", are you really suggesting that people would not immediately think that you might very well have be involved with the attacks? Are you saying that a connection would not have been logically made?

Cheney did NOT say in regards to 9/11 Atta met with Iraqi intelligence. In fact he stipulated there WAS NO LINK to 9/11.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Bush also never claimed the Taliban knew about, or were involved in planning or executing the 9/11 plot. They were merely harboring al qaeda. Which is why we took out the taliban.

Which is one the primary reasons Bush gave for attacking Iraq: that Iraq was harboring, training, and providing assistance to al qaeda. That, like the taliban, he was an ally of al qaeda.

Which was flat out false.

It was not a lie though as at the time the intelligence was that they had training camps in Iraq. Once again for the slow if on Monday I see you driving a new red car and someone I trust tells me you bought said car and I tell everyone you bought a new red car, then on Wednesday it turns out you did not even buy a car and were just driving a friends car.... I did not lie.