Bush's Lies Caused The Iraq War

[TooTall]

Of course everyone knew that Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein used WMD with the full permission of the Reagan administration.

Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

But the US government knew that Saddam Hussein's WMD capabilities were severely diminished after the 1991 Gulf War.
Iraq and Weapons of Mass Destruction

So intelligence was fixed by the Bush administration after 9/11 to justify a preemptive invasion of Iraq.
U.S. Intelligence and Iraq WMD

You do have a quote where Reagan, or any member of his Administration gave "full permission" to Saddam to use WMD's don't you?

 

[BlindBoo]

Of course everyone knew that Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein used WMD with the full permission of the Reagan administration.

Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

But the US government knew that Saddam Hussein's WMD capabilities were severely diminished after the 1991 Gulf War.
Iraq and Weapons of Mass Destruction

So intelligence was fixed by the Bush administration after 9/11 to justify a preemptive invasion of Iraq.
U.S. Intelligence and Iraq WMD

You do have a quote where Reagan, or any member of his Administration gave "full permission" to Saddam to use WMD's don't you?

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

"According to recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials like Francona, the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. At the time, Iran was publicly alleging that illegal chemical attacks were carried out on its forces, and was building a case to present to the United Nations. But it lacked the evidence implicating Iraq, much of which was contained in top secret reports and memoranda sent to the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government. The CIA declined to comment for this story."

 

[whitehall]

The executive branch of the government has no authority to order a Military action but Harry Truman used an executive order regarding the Korean Conflict and we lost about 50,000 American Troops during the botched three year operation. Bill Clinton had no authority to order American bombers to reduce a defenseless European country to rubble but the media supported the operation. About 36% of congressional democrats voted for the mission in Iraq. Any one of them had access to the same intelligence as the executive branch and they could have easily examined the UN sanctions that the mission was based on. Who is responsible fro flawed assumptions? The fact of the matter is that democrats decided to undermine the mission and play a little game of treason. Harry Reid should have been indicted for treason when he tried to impact the morale of the Troops when he told them "the war is lost" just before the Troop Surge.

 

[BlindBoo]

The executive branch of the government has no authority to order a Military action but Harry Truman used an executive order regarding the Korean Conflict and we lost about 50,000 American Troops during the botched three year operation. Bill Clinton had no authority to order American bombers to reduce a defenseless European country to rubble but the media supported the operation. About 36% of congressional democrats voted for the mission in Iraq. Any one of them had access to the same intelligence as the executive branch and they could have easily examined the UN sanctions that the mission was based on. Who is responsible fro flawed assumptions? The fact of the matter is that democrats decided to undermine the mission and play a little game of treason. Harry Reid should have been indicted for treason when he tried to impact the morale of the Troops when he told them "the war is lost" just before the Troop Surge.

Of course the President had the authority. Even after the War Powers Act he has the unquestionable authority to act.

Also the quote is lacking it's first part. "If we don't change course in Iraq, the war is lost". President Bush was forced to change his "Stay the Course Strategy". Republicans were joining in too. Change he did. He quieted the sectarian violence with a combination of a troop escalation and payoffs to the Sunni Tribes.

That of course set the stage for the Big Bush Bug Out..........

 

[TooTall]

Of course everyone knew that Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein used WMD with the full permission of the Reagan administration.

Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

But the US government knew that Saddam Hussein's WMD capabilities were severely diminished after the 1991 Gulf War.
Iraq and Weapons of Mass Destruction

So intelligence was fixed by the Bush administration after 9/11 to justify a preemptive invasion of Iraq.
U.S. Intelligence and Iraq WMD

You do have a quote where Reagan, or any member of his Administration gave "full permission" to Saddam to use WMD's don't you?

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

"According to recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials like Francona, the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. At the time, Iran was publicly alleging that illegal chemical attacks were carried out on its forces, and was building a case to present to the United Nations. But it lacked the evidence implicating Iraq, much of which was contained in top secret reports and memoranda sent to the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government. The CIA declined to comment for this story."

Do you consider that 'full permission' from Reagan? How utterly absurd.

 

[Camp]

You do have a quote where Reagan, or any member of his Administration gave "full permission" to Saddam to use WMD's don't you?

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

"According to recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials like Francona, the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. At the time, Iran was publicly alleging that illegal chemical attacks were carried out on its forces, and was building a case to present to the United Nations. But it lacked the evidence implicating Iraq, much of which was contained in top secret reports and memoranda sent to the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government. The CIA declined to comment for this story."

Do you consider that 'full permission' from Reagan? How utterly absurd.

And finding exact indisputable proof that President Ronald Reagan gave direct permission to Saddam to use chemical warfare in the Iraq-Iran war between 1983 and 1988 while he allowed and supported the USA to provide weapons to both sides of the war`had what to do with President George W. Bush lying to get the USA into a war with Iraq in 2003? Could this be called a deflection to bring the discussion off topic?

 

[U2Edge]

Thanks for confirming IRaq had WMD.
Next.

No one denied that Iraq 'had' active WMD prior to 2003 and that there were remnants of that past remaining in Iraq to this day. Bush lied on March 17 2003 when he claimed he had no doubt that Iraq was hiding WMD from UN inspectors when he had no proof of such concealment.

Had Bush had proof of WMD being hidden from inspectors in 2003 Bush would have sent troops to immediately secure the proof when the invasion was underway.

Think about it Rabbi. Since Bush claimed he knew two days prior to the invasion that SH was hiding the most lethal weapons ever devised from the inspectors, he would have had to know without a doubt what and where this WMD was for certain. And we all know he had no clue as to where it was.

So Bush lied to start a war.

Did President Clinton know precisely where Saddam had WMD when he launched several days of heavy bombing of Iraq in Operation Desert Fox in December 1998? The United States was already at war with Iraq before the Iraqi freedom ground invasion as the United States had been bombing Iraq every year since 1991 for all kinds of different violations.

 

[U2Edge]

Please prove it was a lie.

You must know that when a President cites 'intelligence sources' as evidence for starting a war of choice that we the people are at the mercy of the President with regard to 'proving' that evidence to be solid and genuine or not.

Bush's lie here was in his use of the word 'evidence'. Whatever Bush had with regard to the Saddam / AQ connection was flimsy evidence at best. Bush should have used the word "information" or "leads" in place of "evidence" in order to be truthful.

No, he didn't have any of the evidence he claimed. He never provided evidence or proof of secret communications and the intelligence agencies testified in congress that none existed. The same for the "people in custody claim". There was not a person in custody making these claims and once again, the intelligence agencies testified to not have anyone in custody making the claims that would back up the President. They were blatant lies. He claimed in his State of the Union Address that he had secret intelligence, communications and people in custody to verify collusion and a connection between Saddam and al Qaeda and he had none of it. It was an outright, clear blatant lie.
Does anyone have any evidence or links or whatever to back-up the claims made by President Bush? Maybe I am missing something.

Well, people of the United States of America got to examine all that and they came down on the side of BUSH/CHENEY!

In November 2004, BUSH/CHENEY were re-elected as President and Vice President of the United States by the first majority victory in the popular vote since 1988!

If there was any clear case against Bush lying about ANYTHING, he never would have been re-elected, and he would have been impeached, removed from office or at the very least censured. NOTHING THOUGH. NOTHING. WHY? Because all you have is created allegations by people opposed to him politically.

It is a great thing for this country and the world that Saddam was removed from power! It is incredible that anyone would defend keeping SADDAM in power after what he did for 25 years against the world and Iraq.

 

[TooTall]

DECLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS prove that the Bush administration manipulated intelligence to fit their agenda of invading Iraq.

The Bush administration lied.

Declassified government documents. Read them.

No they didn't. Continuing to post that false claim, does not make it become true.

Everyone had the same intel, everyone came to the same erroneous conclusions about it. NO one lied. Stating something that you believe to be true is not lying.

was the UN lying?, was the EU? were both Clintons lying? Was Kerry? Saudi arabia?, the UK ?.

It was bad intel. Now, why was it bad? Who was president when the bad intel was generated? Any idea? Hint---it wasn't Bush.

You still won't read the declassified Bush government documents that prove that they lied to all of us about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

Colin Powell lied, Curveball lied, Rumsfeld lied, Bush lied, Cheney lied, Wolfowitz lied, Perle lied, Rice lied. They all lied.

Declassified government documents.

Shut up and read them.

You left out Kerry lied, both Clintons lied, Gore lied, Byrd lied, Rockefeller lied, Levin lied and Kennedy lied. That is all the ones that I have quotes from in 2002. Of course they were all relying on EXACTLY the same intelligence that George Bush got.

 

[KNB]

Did you people miss this one?:

That was Bush Jr.'s Secretary of Defense on the left shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in 1983, as special envoy to Iraq for then-President Ronald Reagan who sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran, and the Afghanistan Mujaheddin.

The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.

One of these directives from Reagan, National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 99, signed on July 12, 1983, is available only in a highly redacted version [Document 21]. It reviews U.S. regional interests in the Middle East and South Asia, and U.S. objectives, including peace between Israel and the Arabs, resolution of other regional conflicts, and economic and military improvements, "to strengthen regional stability." It deals with threats to the U.S., strategic planning, cooperation with other countries, including the Arab states, and plans for action. An interdepartmental review of the implications of shifting policy in favor of Iraq was conducted following promulgation of the directive.
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

This is why I say, "Shut the fuck up and read the declassified government documents." Then you will know what your government has done.

 

[TooTall]

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

"According to recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials like Francona, the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. At the time, Iran was publicly alleging that illegal chemical attacks were carried out on its forces, and was building a case to present to the United Nations. But it lacked the evidence implicating Iraq, much of which was contained in top secret reports and memoranda sent to the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government. The CIA declined to comment for this story."

Do you consider that 'full permission' from Reagan? How utterly absurd.

And finding exact indisputable proof that President Ronald Reagan gave direct permission to Saddam to use chemical warfare in the Iraq-Iran war between 1983 and 1988 while he allowed and supported the USA to provide weapons to both sides of the war`had what to do with President George W. Bush lying to get the USA into a war with Iraq in 2003? Could this be called a deflection to bring the discussion off topic?

Probably. Take it up with KNB since he made the original statement.

Quote: Originally Posted by KNB View Post
Of course everyone knew that Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein used WMD with the full permission of the Reagan administration.

 

[U2Edge]

Inaccurate intelligence is not an example of lying. There is no proof that Bush ever lied about anything. Bush was re-elected by the American people in November 2004 with the first majority win in the popular vote since 1988.

Would claiming to have intelligence on March 17, 2003 in an address to the nation announcing that Bush had decided to start a war during ongoing peaceful UN inspections be a lie in your view if no such intelligence was actually presented to Bush at that time?

The straight dope on Bush's record of lies on Iraq has little to do with inaccurate intelligence from the intelligence agencies of the world because the most accurate intelligence available to Bush at that time came from the UN inspection teams on the ground in Iraq for four months prior to the Bush decision to start a war.

No, the most accurate intelligence on Iraq's capabilities came from the United States military and other investigators that were ALLOWED TO GO ANYWHERE THEY NEEDED TO IN IRAQ AFTER SADDAM HAD BEEN REMOVED AND COULD NO LONGER HAMPER, HIDE OR RESTRICT ACCESS TO ANYTHING!

In any event, there was a mountain of other reasons to invade and remove Saddam in 2003 besides any intelligence suggesting that he did now have WMD weapons ready for use on the battlefield. The goal since 1991 Gulf War was PREVENTING SADDAM from ever obtaining the capabilities again, not to wait until he had these capabilities to use against US troops or civilians in the region before acting. So the fact that US troops did not face any WMD on the battlefield is something that should be celebrated! It means the United States invaded at the right time, reducing the cost in blood and treasure which would be far greater if the United States had invaded Saddam's Iraq that was equipped and ready to use such weapons!

As for intelligence, the Iraq invasion of 2003 is not the first time that intelligence was shown to be inaccurate. The President did not lie. There was intelligence prior to the conflict which showed that SADDAM had WMD. After the invasion, it was shown to be inaccurate. BUT NO ONE LIED!

 

[KNB]

And I just gave you a fucking link which proves that the right-wing Republican wet-dream Reagan administration was butt-buddies with war criminal Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

What part of "Reagan sold weapons to Saddam Hussein" is so difficult to understand? Saddam Hussein, mass-murdering tyrant, was an ally of Ronald Reagan.

 

[KNB]

Oh, yes, the Bush administration very much lied. Declassified government documents from the Bush administration prove it. Read them.

And they tortured POWs, too.

The Torture Archive

 

[U2Edge]

If Bush lied then so did the Clintons, John Kerry, Al Gore, Sandy Berger, Madeline Albright, Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, Joe Lieberman, Nancy Pelosi, Bob Graham and many other prominent Democrats as far back as the late nineties....

Bush lied on March 17, 2003 when he addressed the nation saying that he had intelligence that left no doubt that Saddam's regime was concealing the most lethal weapons ever devised from the UN Resolution 1441 inspectors at that time. None of those you mentioned above told that lie. It is solely Bush's lie at that pivotal moment in time.

Senator Hillary Clinton had access to the latest classified intelligence on Iraq on March 17, 2003. She along with the rest of Congress had access to this intelligence, and supported the use of military force at that time.

If Bush had lied about anything, everyone would know. No one walked away from their views that they had made in the previous months. They all had the opportunity to speak up if they thought or new Bush was lying about intelligence. Not a single one did.

 

[U2Edge]

And I just gave you a fucking link which proves that the right-wing Republican wet-dream Reagan administration was butt-buddies with war criminal Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

What part of "Reagan sold weapons to Saddam Hussein" is so difficult to understand? Saddam Hussein, mass-murdering tyrant, was an ally of Ronald Reagan.

Name the weapon system for us then? Even if Reagan did(HE DIDN'T) like they say in liberal Disneyland, were talking about events that took place in a different administration, 15 years after Reagan left office.

 

[KNB]

Read the declassified government documents.

 

[U2Edge]

Did you people miss this one?:

That was Bush Jr.'s Secretary of Defense on the left shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in 1983, as special envoy to Iraq for then-President Ronald Reagan who sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran, and the Afghanistan Mujaheddin.

The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.

One of these directives from Reagan, National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 99, signed on July 12, 1983, is available only in a highly redacted version [Document 21]. It reviews U.S. regional interests in the Middle East and South Asia, and U.S. objectives, including peace between Israel and the Arabs, resolution of other regional conflicts, and economic and military improvements, "to strengthen regional stability." It deals with threats to the U.S., strategic planning, cooperation with other countries, including the Arab states, and plans for action. An interdepartmental review of the implications of shifting policy in favor of Iraq was conducted following promulgation of the directive.
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

This is why I say, "Shut the fuck up and read the declassified government documents." Then you will know what your government has done.

Providing Iraq intelligence on Iranian military actions and moves, as well as sending economic aid, trucks and transport helicopters is what the US did. The United States did not weaponize chemicals and then manufacture chemical shells for use by Iraqi artillery in the 1980s.

The overwhelming majority of the direct military assistance provided to SADDAM in the 1980s was provided by the Soviet Union, with China as a distant second.

Take for example Saddam's stocks of Main Battle Tanks in June 1989 a year after the end of the Iran/Iraq War.

Main Battle Tanks - number - country that provided the tank

T-72 - 1,500 - Soviet Union
T-62 - 1,000 - Soviet Union
Type-69 - 500 - China
Type-59 - 500 - China
T-54/55 - 2,500 - Soviet Union

This is data from the London Based International Institutte for Strategic Studies Military Balance which is issued and updated every year. This comes from the 1989-1990 issue.

I could continue to go down the list to Armored Personal Carriers, Artillery, Mortars, Combat Aircraft, Attack Helicopters, but the results would be the same. Saddam's Iraq was a client state of the Soviet Union and over 80% of the weapon systems in use came from there!

Iraq did have some French Mirage Combat Aircraft as well as the MILAN Anti-Tank Missile made in Germany. There was also captured Iranian equipment which was US built because Iran until 1978, and the Iranian Shia Islamic Revolution that overthrew the secular government, was a client state of the United States.

 

[U2Edge]

Read the declassified government documents.

I did. Nothing there about weapon systems like tanks, combat aircraft, artillery shells, or the production of sarin gas.

 

[KNB]

Let me guess. Wikipedia?

I gave you a link to George Washington University's National Security Archives with declassified US government documents and you come back with a wikipedia list?