Business Insider misleads its readers on birthright citizenship.

[johnwk]

I see the adolescent posting has not yet stopped.

 

[Unkotare]

According to US IMMIGRATION LAW anyone born in the US IS a US citizen. That is reality. That is fact. Go write a letter to your congressman.

.

 

[Unkotare]

8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a)
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b)
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c)
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d)
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e)
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f)
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g)
a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h)
a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

.

 

[johnwk]

8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a)
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;


.
“What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.” LINK 1st column halfway down.

 

[Unkotare]

8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a)
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b)
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c)
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d)
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e)
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f)
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g)
a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h)
a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

.

 

[surada]

It goes even deeper. That poster may recognize that the phrase,

is in there. But he doesn’t want to allow it to have any meaning. And he is too shallow to acknowledge that it involves the concept of “allegiance” to the foreign government — as constituting an impediment.

Allegiance doesn't matter at all.

 

[surada]

I see the adolescent posting has not yet stopped.

Next time you get a speeding ticket you tell the policeman that your allegiance is to Spain. Tell him you aren't subject to US jurisdiction.

 

[johnwk]

Allegiance doesn't matter at all.

The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.” LINK 1st column halfway down.

 

[surada]

The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.” LINK 1st column halfway down.

Every one knows what it means except you. How does this foreign jurisdiction work?

Say I'm a tourist from Italy.

 

[BackAgain]

Allegiance doesn't matter at all.

You’re still wrong. Ignoring the evidence about how it does matter will not make it go away.

 

[surada]

You’re still wrong. Ignoring the evidence about how it does matter will not make it go away.

Let's say I'm an Italian tourist in the US on a visa. Does Italy have jurisdiction over me?

 

[BackAgain]

Let's say I'm an Italian tourist in the US on a visa. Does Italy have jurisdiction over me?

Irrelevant.

 

[BackAgain]

South Korea has a compulsory universal military obligation for its males. A Korean came here and at some point overstayed his welcome. He thus became an illegal alien. He was a witness to a murder case.

Suddenly, he found it expedient to have to rush home to enlist before his failure became a S. Korean criminal offense. So, the prosecution asked to “preserve” his testimony by having him testify in court (on camera) and be subjected to cross examination. The defendants’ lawyers objected.

There was some back and forth legal arguments but the judge granted the prosecution’s motion. The witness was compelled to testify under our jurisdiction.

But he was still clearly and unequivocally under the jurisdiction of the S. Korean government, too.

 

[johnwk]

Every one knows what it means except you. How does this foreign jurisdiction work?

Say I'm a tourist from Italy.

We are talking about something very specific. We are talking about the meaning of, ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . " as found in the Fourteenth Amendment.

One of the few times the Court did approach answering the qualifying condition, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was in the Slaughterhouse Cases 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873) . The Court wrote

“[t]he phrase, ‘subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of … citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States .”

And later, in Elk v. Wilkins (1884) our S.C. points out:

"The main object of the opening sentence of the 14th Amendment was ... to put it beyond doubt that all persons, white or black, and whether formerly slaves or not, born or naturalized in the United States, and owing no allegiance to any alien power, should be citizens of the United States ... The evident meaning of (the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof") is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. ... Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterward, except by being naturalized..."

 

[Unkotare]

8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a)
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b)
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c)
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d)
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e)
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f)
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g)
a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h)
a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

.

 

[surada]

You’re still wrong. Ignoring the evidence about how it does matter will not make it go away.

Irrelevant.

You're stuck. ONLY the US has jurisdiction in the United States.. it's very, very simple.

 

[BackAgain]

We are talking about something very specific. We are talking about the meaning of, ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . " as found in the Fourteenth Amendment.

One of the few times the Court did approach answering the qualifying condition, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was in the Slaughterhouse Cases 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873) . The Court wrote

“[t]he phrase, ‘subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of … citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States .”

And later, in Elk v. Wilkins (1884) our S.C. points out:

"The main object of the opening sentence of the 14th Amendment was ... to put it beyond doubt that all persons, white or black, and whether formerly slaves or not, born or naturalized in the United States, and owing no allegiance to any alien power, should be citizens of the United States ... The evident meaning of (the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof") is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. ... Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterward, except by being naturalized..."

Must highlight for some of our liberals. Even then they may not be able to “see” it:

The evident meaning of (the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof") is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. ...

 

[BackAgain]

You're stuck. ONLY the US has jurisdiction in the United States.. it's very, very simple.

You’re wrong.

The S. Korean national owed allegiance to South Korea.

A Nicaraguan mommy who sneaks into the United States and squats down here to give birth to her child is a Nicaraguan who might very well be heading right back there. The kid will be expected to get employment when able, and to send US dollars back home. The kid — like his mommy — is Nicaraguan. And the fact that the US has jurisdiction over crimes he might commit here (and over him for trial and punishment purposes) doesn’t make him any less a subject of Nicaragua.

 

[BackAgain]

.

The disgustingly named Unkotare keeps citing that snippet of US law as though it settles everything. Of course, it doesn’t.
The relevant part remains:

(a)
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

Unko is simply too delusional to acknowledge that the highlighted phrase has meaning and far too dishonest to admit that the meaning of the highlighted phrase absolutely requires further analysis.

 

[surada]

You’re wrong.

The S. Korean national owed allegiance to South Korea.

A Nicaraguan mommy who sneaks into the United States and squats down here to give birth to her child is a Nicaraguan who might very well be heading right back there. The kid will be expected to get employment when able, and to send US dollars back home. The kid — like his mommy — is Nicaraguan. And the fact that the US has jurisdiction over crimes he might commit here (and over him for trial and punishment purposes) doesn’t make him any less a subject of Nicaragua.

If that South Korean is in the US he's subject to US jurisdiction. His allegiance has nothing to do with US law.

The Nicaraguan baby born in the US is under US jurisdiction and is a US citizen.

Once you understand sovereignty we'll work on understanding extradition.