But, Aren't Nazis and Fascists Really Left-Wingers?

[BlindBoo]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs]Jane you Ignorant slut - YouTube[/ame]

My only claim is that Nazis were Fascist. Neither Republicans nor Democrats are Fascist. Partisan hacks who call the opposition Nazis display no historical perspective, just extreme partisanship.

Yes you are an idiot.

You liberals have claimed the Nazis are right-wing but the TIME op-ed of the day says they are left-wing.....of course you know more than people living in that era because you are insane.

It has only been dismissed by the likes of you.... The fact is that these things WERE INDEED DONE...

There is nothing there equating liberals to fascist nazis.

 

[GoneBezerk]

So to sum up the liberal scum here....

Nazis were Christians and right-wing racists because the Neo-Nazis today have stolen their logos and Hitler's image. This is true despite people in the 1930s-40s stating the Nazis were communist lite....because whatever liberals say today to fit their agenda is true.

Now, what is the neo-nazi economic agenda.....does it look like the collective society of Nazi German????

 

[L.K.Eder]

Oh ok, kook....but they weren't Nazis too, eh?

Himmler was the one going around decorating Germany with pagan symbols without Hitler's permission....sounds like a HGTV and Oprah TV show.

Agreed on that. That's a fairly typical approach to controlling crowds on the Left and the Right though. A lot of that looks silly or ridiculous to us because US History is relatively young. The Germans can go back to Viking Ancestral Gods if they really want to find legendary heroes, we as a nation can only go back to really the Founders.

At some point, IIRC, Hitler actually was sending out teams to look for some fairly niche religious stuff.

that's from an indiana jones movie.

in reality, hitler was not that big into occultism.

try himmler or hess.

let's see what hitler had to say about occultists.

from "mein kampf"

The characteristic of most of these natures is that they abound in old Germanic heroism, that they revel in the dim past, stone axes, spear and shield, but that in natura they are the greatest cowards imaginable. For the same people who wave about old Germanic tin swords carefully imitated, and wear a prepared bearskin with bull's horns covering their bearded heads always preach for the present only the fight with spiritual weapons and flee quickly in sight of every communist blackjack. Posterity will have little cause for glorifying their heroic existence in a new epic. I got to know these people too well not to feel the deepest disgust at this miserable comedy. They make a ridiculous impression on the great masses, and the Jew has every reason to spare these folk comedians, even to prefer them to the true fighters for the coming German State. Thereby these people are even immeasurably conceited, despite all proofs of their complete inability they pretend to under- stand and to know everything better, and they become a real plague for all straightforward and honest fighters, to whom heroism appears not only venerable in the past, but who also endeavor to give posterity the same picture by their activity in the present.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Agreed on that. That's a fairly typical approach to controlling crowds on the Left and the Right though. A lot of that looks silly or ridiculous to us because US History is relatively young. The Germans can go back to Viking Ancestral Gods if they really want to find legendary heroes, we as a nation can only go back to really the Founders.

At some point, IIRC, Hitler actually was sending out teams to look for some fairly niche religious stuff.

that's from an indiana jones movie.

in reality, hitler was not that big into occultism.

try himmler or hess.

Watch the history channel.. Hitler was somewhat in to the occult, in as far as his interest in the control it could possibly or did bring about... His rule of the masses for state benefit was an ultimate goal, and if things occult could help in any way, he would consider it

thanks, but no thanks.

 

[DiamondDave]

There is nothing there equating liberals to fascist nazis.

I did not say, nor did it say all liberals are nazis...

What the actions of the nazis as fascists did show is that their ideology is based in ideals of the far left wing... in a completely totalitarian manner... it is about the state, state control, state choosing who is 'free' and who is not, state regulation, state controlled or mandated production, state confiscation, etc

If you want to equate totalitarian far right wing with the mongolian empire, you would be more accurate as it is more accurate to put the nazi empire as totalitarian far left wing

Government control isn't necessarily left wing. That's where you're equivocating. The French monarchy before the Revolution was very controlling, but hardly left wing.

Controls for the state, all for state benefit... yes, that is left wing...

Where as Genghis would conquer, demand tribute but allowing them to govern themselves, choose their own beliefs, etc is totalitarian right... you say you were not part of the empire, try to eliminate yourself from tribute, etc and you would be brutally forced to the opposite or eliminated completely.. brutally forced allegiance while continuing your trade, ideals, beliefs, religion, etc... quite different than Nazi ideology

 

[konradv]

You are beyond repair....removing your brain for science is the last option.

It has only been dismissed by the likes of you.... The fact is that these things WERE INDEED DONE...

It's been dismissed because his argument is equivocation plain and simple. If you want to accept 'socialist' in the Nazi sense, then you have to accept 'republic' in the communist usage. Since we're also a republic, I guess that makes republics bad, right? If you say "no", then you have to dismiss GB's argument too.

At least I have one.

 

[Foxfyre]

Of course he was, as long as his regime owned them or he had his puppets in place to run them. He said a lot and did a lot in his rise to power that was not true in the end game, in other words, he lied to grab power. Is it your position that he supported free market capitalism?

When it suited him, yes. When it didn't, he didn't. That trait is hardly unique to the Left or Right though, no matter how you define it.

And if he had the power to control or change who was in charge when it didn't suit him, then that trait isn't anywhere on the right end of the political spectrum, it's just another variety of dictatorship with a facade on top of it. And really it wasn't that good of a facade in the end.

Hitler used his belief in a superior Aryan race and promoted it as necessary for the survival of the nation. His antisemitism translated into contempt for a denigration of the Jews and other 'defectives' as a class and by making them the repository of all that was wrong in Germany was able to put genocide into effect with little objection from the people.

The same tactics are used by national leaders and opportunists today, without the genocide aspect, when they continually blame certain people or groups for all that is wrong in America and attempt to demonize them so they will be as marginalized as possible.

Nazism opposed communism as strenuously as did the USA. Our motives were to retain individual liberties. Nazism's motive was to draw people away from the collective and infuse them with fierce völkisch nationalism. The Nazis promoted expansionism to make room for more pure Aryan German settlers and to acquire food and other resources necessary for their betterment.

Nazism promoted private property, to be owned by pure Aryans only, and promoted a kind of national solidarity that all the people would fiercely promote and defend. Control of all business was necessary however in order to outlaw strikes and lockouts and make the government the protector of the virtue of the people and the entity that would establish the wages, salary levels, benefits, and working conditions.

It is not necessary for the government to own private enterprise in order to be a totalitarian government. It is only necessary for the government to be able to control who it employs, what it will manufacture and for what purposes, and ensure that the management is loyal and obedient to the government.

 

[GoneBezerk]

These idiots are watching MTV, BET, msnbc and the Comedy channel at night for their information about the world.

They don't watch the Military Channel showing BBC documentaries about WWII or the History channel with PhDs discussing Hitler's life and beliefs or the Discovery channel when they show the Nazi Occult videos/stories.

These people are idiots that need to feel their worthless lives aren't worthless by coming here spewing their bullshit for anyone that will read it. Then they go back to their shit lives and watch the mindless bullshit again tonight....rinse and repeat each day.

They need to believe the GOP and Christians are Nazis to feel better about their fucked up beliefs that are in line with the Nazis....

Agreed on that. That's a fairly typical approach to controlling crowds on the Left and the Right though. A lot of that looks silly or ridiculous to us because US History is relatively young. The Germans can go back to Viking Ancestral Gods if they really want to find legendary heroes, we as a nation can only go back to really the Founders.

At some point, IIRC, Hitler actually was sending out teams to look for some fairly niche religious stuff.

that's from an indiana jones movie.

in reality, hitler was not that big into occultism.

try himmler or hess.

Watch the history channel.. Hitler was somewhat in to the occult, in as far as his interest in the control it could possibly or did bring about... His rule of the masses for state benefit was an ultimate goal, and if things occult could help in any way, he would consider it

 

[DiamondDave]

Oh ok, kook....but they weren't Nazis too, eh?

Himmler was the one going around decorating Germany with pagan symbols without Hitler's permission....sounds like a HGTV and Oprah TV show.

that's from an indiana jones movie.

in reality, hitler was not that big into occultism.

try himmler or hess.

let's see what hitler had to say about occultists.

from "mein kampf"

The characteristic of most of these natures is that they abound in old Germanic heroism, that they revel in the dim past, stone axes, spear and shield, but that in natura they are the greatest cowards imaginable. For the same people who wave about old Germanic tin swords carefully imitated, and wear a prepared bearskin with bull's horns covering their bearded heads always preach for the present only the fight with spiritual weapons and flee quickly in sight of every communist blackjack. Posterity will have little cause for glorifying their heroic existence in a new epic. I got to know these people too well not to feel the deepest disgust at this miserable comedy. They make a ridiculous impression on the great masses, and the Jew has every reason to spare these folk comedians, even to prefer them to the true fighters for the coming German State. Thereby these people are even immeasurably conceited, despite all proofs of their complete inability they pretend to under- stand and to know everything better, and they become a real plague for all straightforward and honest fighters, to whom heroism appears not only venerable in the past, but who also endeavor to give posterity the same picture by their activity in the present.

Occultists weak.. easier to control.. which is why it was interesting to Hitler and the Nazis to research into it to see how they were controlled.. in order to expand their own totalitarian control in any way possible

 

[BlindBoo]

It has only been dismissed by the likes of you.... The fact is that these things WERE INDEED DONE...

There is nothing there equating liberals to fascist nazis.

I did not say, nor did it say all liberals are nazis...

What the actions of the nazis as fascists did show is that their ideology is based in ideals of the far left wing... in a completely totalitarian manner... it is about the state, state control, state choosing who is 'free' and who is not, state regulation, state controlled or mandated production, state confiscation, etc

If you want to equate totalitarian far right wing with the mongolian empire, you would be more accurate as it is more accurate to put the nazi empire as totalitarian far left wing

Well I disagree that their ideology of slave labour was far left wing. I think we can agree that it certainly was extreme regardless if you believe it was left or right.

 

[konradv]

I did not say, nor did it say all liberals are nazis...

What the actions of the nazis as fascists did show is that their ideology is based in ideals of the far left wing... in a completely totalitarian manner... it is about the state, state control, state choosing who is 'free' and who is not, state regulation, state controlled or mandated production, state confiscation, etc

If you want to equate totalitarian far right wing with the mongolian empire, you would be more accurate as it is more accurate to put the nazi empire as totalitarian far left wing

Government control isn't necessarily left wing. That's where you're equivocating. The French monarchy before the Revolution was very controlling, but hardly left wing.

Controls for the state, all for state benefit... yes, that is left wing...

Where as Genghis would conquer, demand tribute but allowing them to govern themselves, choose their own beliefs, etc is totalitarian right... you say you were not part of the empire, try to eliminate yourself from tribute, etc and you would be brutally forced to the opposite or eliminated completely.. brutally forced allegiance while continuing your trade, ideals, beliefs, religion, etc... quite different than Nazi ideology

The right wing French monarchy did not allow self-government, forced people to accept their religion and suppressed the language and customs of minorities. Sounds kind of Nazi to me.

 

[BlindBoo]

You're a hoot. The last time I watched empTVee they actually showed musicians playing music. What was that two decades ago? What the name of that Discovery Channel special declaring Hitler was just like todays liberal again? Or was that on the Military Channel?

These idiots are watching MTV, BET, msnbc and the Comedy channel at night for their information about the world.

They don't watch the Military Channel showing BBC documentaries about WWII or the History channel with PhDs discussing Hitler's life and beliefs or the Discovery channel when they show the Nazi Occult videos/stories.

These people are idiots that need to feel their worthless lives aren't worthless by coming here spewing their bullshit for anyone that will read it. Then they go back to their shit lives and watch the mindless bullshit again tonight....rinse and repeat each day.

They need to believe the GOP and Christians are Nazis to feel better about their fucked up beliefs that are in line with the Nazis....

that's from an indiana jones movie.

in reality, hitler was not that big into occultism.

try himmler or hess.

Watch the history channel.. Hitler was somewhat in to the occult, in as far as his interest in the control it could possibly or did bring about... His rule of the masses for state benefit was an ultimate goal, and if things occult could help in any way, he would consider it

 

[del]

So any idiots here want to counter what TIME said about Hitler....afterall you weren't alive when Hitler was in power and TIME wrote their op-ed on him.....

if you knew what an op-ed piece was, you'd be better off, nemo

maybe

 

[del]

Actually.. Hitler was into all sorts of zealot things, religious and non-religious.. as it was fascinating not only for the fact that something supernatural could be useful, but also in terms of how people blindly followed things such as religion as zealots.. it was all to play into his national socialist fascist control

Agreed on that. That's a fairly typical approach to controlling crowds on the Left and the Right though. A lot of that looks silly or ridiculous to us because US History is relatively young. The Germans can go back to Viking Ancestral Gods if they really want to find legendary heroes, we as a nation can only go back to really the Founders.

At some point, IIRC, Hitler actually was sending out teams to look for some fairly niche religious stuff.

Hitler was a ruler, not a president, bottom line.

brilliant insight

 

[DiamondDave]

Government control isn't necessarily left wing. That's where you're equivocating. The French monarchy before the Revolution was very controlling, but hardly left wing.

Controls for the state, all for state benefit... yes, that is left wing...

Where as Genghis would conquer, demand tribute but allowing them to govern themselves, choose their own beliefs, etc is totalitarian right... you say you were not part of the empire, try to eliminate yourself from tribute, etc and you would be brutally forced to the opposite or eliminated completely.. brutally forced allegiance while continuing your trade, ideals, beliefs, religion, etc... quite different than Nazi ideology

The right wing French monarchy did not allow self-government, forced people to accept their religion and suppressed the language and customs of minorities. Sounds kind of Nazi to me.

Sounds incredibly totalitarian to me.. quite like other empires and monarchies.. was it for the benefit of the masses? Benefits of the whole nation? Mass control of all production? etc...?? Not to the extent of the Nazis and totalitarian communists.. Hence while totalitarian, not as far left.. but also not like Genghis and the subsequent Mongolian empire, which I think you agree was right wing totalitarianism

 

[Foxfyre]

Government control isn't necessarily left wing. That's where you're equivocating. The French monarchy before the Revolution was very controlling, but hardly left wing.

Controls for the state, all for state benefit... yes, that is left wing...

Where as Genghis would conquer, demand tribute but allowing them to govern themselves, choose their own beliefs, etc is totalitarian right... you say you were not part of the empire, try to eliminate yourself from tribute, etc and you would be brutally forced to the opposite or eliminated completely.. brutally forced allegiance while continuing your trade, ideals, beliefs, religion, etc... quite different than Nazi ideology

The right wing French monarchy did not allow self-government, forced people to accept their religion and suppressed the language and customs of minorities. Sounds kind of Nazi to me.

No, not Nazi. It is as incorrect to identify all government that enforces morality, religion, social concepts, etc. as "Nazi" as it is to identify as communist all who call themselves 'liberal' in this country.

If the goal is to demonize or discredit or marginalize a person or group or entity, all such labels can be used as perjorative terms. But there are specific definitions applied to each, and in my opinion, those who are interested in truth instead of oneupmanship will acknowledge that.

But your observations about the French monarchy do graphically illustrate the difference between definitions of right and left, liberal/conservative etc. as applied in European history and what is the reality in US society.

 

[DiamondDave]

There is nothing there equating liberals to fascist nazis.

I did not say, nor did it say all liberals are nazis...

What the actions of the nazis as fascists did show is that their ideology is based in ideals of the far left wing... in a completely totalitarian manner... it is about the state, state control, state choosing who is 'free' and who is not, state regulation, state controlled or mandated production, state confiscation, etc

If you want to equate totalitarian far right wing with the mongolian empire, you would be more accurate as it is more accurate to put the nazi empire as totalitarian far left wing

Well I disagree that their ideology of slave labour was far left wing. I think we can agree that it certainly was extreme regardless if you believe it was left or right.

Slavery to them was subsequent... the slaves or undesirables were not part of the nation.. they were nothing more than a resource for the state or something to be eliminated.. depending on the time and/or need...

 

[regent]

After what the world and the United States went through eradicating Nazism and then for there to be comfusion as to what the Nazi stood for is almost criminal. I would suggest that instead of trying to get an answer on these boards that people do their homework, get a booklet or two on political ideologies or even some scholarly reading, perhaps William Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Let's post it again until some liberal shithead can dispute TIME....

Hitler was named "Man of the Year" in 1938 by Time Magazine. They noted Hitler's anti-capitalistic economic policies:

"Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany's bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on other what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for food- stuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism."

(Source: Time Magazine; Jaunuary 2, 1939.)

That sounds a lot like Obama

 

[L.K.Eder]

These idiots are watching MTV, BET, msnbc and the Comedy channel at night for their information about the world.

They don't watch the Military Channel showing BBC documentaries about WWII or the History channel with PhDs discussing Hitler's life and beliefs or the Discovery channel when they show the Nazi Occult videos/stories.

These people are idiots that need to feel their worthless lives aren't worthless by coming here spewing their bullshit for anyone that will read it. Then they go back to their shit lives and watch the mindless bullshit again tonight....rinse and repeat each day.

They need to believe the GOP and Christians are Nazis to feel better about their fucked up beliefs that are in line with the Nazis....

that's from an indiana jones movie.

in reality, hitler was not that big into occultism.

try himmler or hess.

Watch the history channel.. Hitler was somewhat in to the occult, in as far as his interest in the control it could possibly or did bring about... His rule of the masses for state benefit was an ultimate goal, and if things occult could help in any way, he would consider it

there is also the possibility to read a book, you know.

about hitler.

by serious people.