But Britain has gun control, right? How did we miss this story about gun crime in Britain?

[flacaltenn]

Actually -- I made an error above.. You would not ADD up all those regional rates.. You would take an average of them for the UK.. So the UK tracks UNDER the USA by about 3 to 1.. But it is NO WHERE NEAR the exaggeration in your original bar chart when you ONLY look at GUN homicides and not total murder rates..

And if you take out police homicides and gang warfare -- there'd probably be little difference.
Want to disarm gangs in America? Be my guest.. Shake em down.. You know who they are..

But that's the point, the US has FIVE TIMES the murder rate of the UK because guns are so easy to get.

But I give you credit for admitting your mistake..

No actually it's about 3 times. By comparing rates on that chart. And the only way you'd know if guns had ANYTHING to do with that would be to compare the yearly homicide rate to the gun ban date..

Hardly made a diff.. Did it? But the rates of ASSAULTS, RAPES, AND OTHER violent crime went up..
And guns are not the ONLY factor in crime statistics. After that HUGE spike in murders post ban, the UK puts 10,000 more bobbies on patrol.. (Presumably with larger dicks so they could intimidate the perps by waggling their wieners at them since they were disarmed as well).

AND they plowed BILLIONS into big brother street cams and 1000 of intelligence officers to interpret them in real time. Like I said -- if you want a lower murder rate -- disarm the gangs and kick the leftist govts out of our big cities..

You didn't intimidate me a bit about "my math" since you didn't understand why the chart you posted proved NOTHING about how many people got murdered before/after the UK gun ban. And then STILL couldn't interpret the chart that I posted.

 

[2aguy]

So this is all about tiny dicks? We'll get to that later. But first -- a message to your tiny brain.. When you chart GUN-RELATED murder rates --- the countries where EVEN THE F-ing cops don't have guns are gonna be lower.
Whether you do that by percentages or per capita or any other normalized number.

BUT --- when you look at just MURDER RATE totals (gun or no gun) -- that's the statistic that really matters doesn't it? The dead don't really care what was used to murder them..

Point is, Tiny one, that they STILL Have a much lower rate than we do... because they don't let folks have guns, that's the point, Little Fellow.

Go ahead.. Add up all those UK parts. You'll find that MURDER RATES in UK are equal to or GREATER than in the USA for MOST of those years. If you find a table of numbers behind those graphs, you'll see I'm right.

It appears you are bad at Math... Those numbers on your chart are rates, not totals. If you add them all up, they end up somewhere in the MIDDLE. The UK on AVERAGE has a murder rate of a little less than 2 per 100,000 compared to our six per 100,000. You see, if you didn't suck so bad at, well, math and understanding demographics, you'd know that the areas with the higher rates - N. Ireland and Scotland- are also sparsely populated. They represent less than 10% of the UK's population. Averaged out,, the number is closer to the number for England, where most people in the UK actually live.

Now about this dick - gun connection ---- You tend to believe that folks own weapons as a compensation for dick size. But what you don't take into account is guys like me who own guns and have rather large wangers also have a brain large enough to realize that waving your wanger at an assailant is futile and likely to aggravate the attacker. So the size of your wanger will not be a factor in the outcome. Now -- in your case -- waving a TINY wanger at the assailant COULD BE effective as the attacker might be laughing too hard at you to carry thru with the attack. OR -- just take pity on you..

Of 33,000 gun deaths in the US, according to the FBI, only 200 of those are civilians killing people in acts of "Justifiable homicide". About 800 of those are cops shooting "suspects" (i.e. black people who scared them really bad) and the rest are homicides and suicides and the ever so fun accident where little Timmy finds dad's gun and subtracts from his number of playmates.

So obviously, if your dick measuring skills are up there with your statistical skills, I suspect it truly is a tiny matter.

But I rarely try to argue math with gun nuts... you guys are immune to math. Guns are a way of life, to overcome your "shortcomings".

You are still wrong. you guys only care when the criminal is killed by the victim...and all the other times...1,500,000 according to Bill Clinton and Barack Obama where they don't kill the criminal but capture them, drive them off or wound and capture them , you have to ignore those defensive gun uses because that destroys the lie that normal people are simply sociopaths who murder as soon as they buy a gun.


You also can't explain how in 2013 11.1 million people carried guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down....and then in 2014 as more than 13 million people carried guns for self defense, the gun murder rate went down again......

Another truth that shows your position on gun control has no basis in fact, truth or reality....

and you have to ignore the truth that criminals in Britain and the rest of Europe get guns easily....and they prefer fully automatic ones to commit crime. British police are being armed with guns.......more than before......gun crime is going up.....

As I pointed out, Britain is at the same point we were at in the late 1950s and going into the 60s when gun crime was starting to go up.......

Their welfare state has finally overcome their culture...and now they too have out of control young males who have been raised by teen mothers with no men to teach them how to be men......and they are starting to use guns more and more....

 

[2aguy]

So this is all about tiny dicks? We'll get to that later. But first -- a message to your tiny brain.. When you chart GUN-RELATED murder rates --- the countries where EVEN THE F-ing cops don't have guns are gonna be lower.
Whether you do that by percentages or per capita or any other normalized number.

BUT --- when you look at just MURDER RATE totals (gun or no gun) -- that's the statistic that really matters doesn't it? The dead don't really care what was used to murder them..

Point is, Tiny one, that they STILL Have a much lower rate than we do... because they don't let folks have guns, that's the point, Little Fellow.

Go ahead.. Add up all those UK parts. You'll find that MURDER RATES in UK are equal to or GREATER than in the USA for MOST of those years. If you find a table of numbers behind those graphs, you'll see I'm right.

It appears you are bad at Math... Those numbers on your chart are rates, not totals. If you add them all up, they end up somewhere in the MIDDLE. The UK on AVERAGE has a murder rate of a little less than 2 per 100,000 compared to our six per 100,000. You see, if you didn't suck so bad at, well, math and understanding demographics, you'd know that the areas with the higher rates - N. Ireland and Scotland- are also sparsely populated. They represent less than 10% of the UK's population. Averaged out,, the number is closer to the number for England, where most people in the UK actually live.

Now about this dick - gun connection ---- You tend to believe that folks own weapons as a compensation for dick size. But what you don't take into account is guys like me who own guns and have rather large wangers also have a brain large enough to realize that waving your wanger at an assailant is futile and likely to aggravate the attacker. So the size of your wanger will not be a factor in the outcome. Now -- in your case -- waving a TINY wanger at the assailant COULD BE effective as the attacker might be laughing too hard at you to carry thru with the attack. OR -- just take pity on you..

Of 33,000 gun deaths in the US, according to the FBI, only 200 of those are civilians killing people in acts of "Justifiable homicide". About 800 of those are cops shooting "suspects" (i.e. black people who scared them really bad) and the rest are homicides and suicides and the ever so fun accident where little Timmy finds dad's gun and subtracts from his number of playmates.

So obviously, if your dick measuring skills are up there with your statistical skills, I suspect it truly is a tiny matter.

But I rarely try to argue math with gun nuts... you guys are immune to math. Guns are a way of life, to overcome your "shortcomings".

You are still wrong. you guys only care when the criminal is killed by the victim...and all the other times...1,500,000 according to Bill Clinton and Barack Obama where they don't kill the criminal but capture them, drive them off or wound and capture them , you have to ignore those defensive gun uses because that destroys the lie that normal people are simply sociopaths who murder as soon as they buy a gun.


You also can't explain how in 2013 11.1 million people carried guns for self defense...and the gun murder rate went down....and then in 2014 as more than 13 million people carried guns for self defense, the gun murder rate went down again......

Another truth that shows your position on gun control has no basis in fact, truth or reality....

and you have to ignore the truth that criminals in Britain and the rest of Europe get guns easily....and they prefer fully automatic ones to commit crime. British police are being armed with guns.......more than before......gun crime is going up.....

As I pointed out, Britain is at the same point we were at in the late 1950s and going into the 60s when gun crime was starting to go up.......

Their welfare state has finally overcome their culture...and now they too have out of control young males who have been raised by teen mothers with no men to teach them how to be men......and they are starting to use guns more and more....

And now their gun crime is up 4%........and rising......

 

[2aguy]

Keep in mind the vast majority of crimes, including gun homicides, are committed by minorities. Something the UK and other European countries lack compared to the US. Idaho gun ownership rates are about as high as it gets, yet they have the lowest gun violence.

But, you have an Agenda. Don't let such facts get in the way.

Actually, that's not really true. Of 16,000 homicides, only 1800 a year are "gang related". So why you can comfort yourself in thinking the darkies are the ones eliminating each other... the fact is, it's more likely to be someone you know.

wrong twit.....even the domestic shootings are by gang members......and if you follow the actual studies you will see that gangs do most of the gun murder in these cities......they are out of control young males with impulse control issues due to no fathers in their lives to teach them to be men.....

 

[2aguy]

Keep in mind the vast majority of crimes, including gun homicides, are committed by minorities. Something the UK and other European countries lack compared to the US. Idaho gun ownership rates are about as high as it gets, yet they have the lowest gun violence.

But, you have an Agenda. Don't let such facts get in the way.

Actually, that's not really true. Of 16,000 homicides, only 1800 a year are "gang related". So why you can comfort yourself in thinking the darkies are the ones eliminating each other... the fact is, it's more likely to be someone you know.

And ofcourse you are wrong...here is the truth, the facts and the reality of gun murder in the U.S.....

Houston.....most shooters criminals

Houston murder rate skyrockets in early 2015

McClelland said the majority of murders in the city are committed by people with criminal records against people with criminal records.


-----
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/us/cdc-gun-violence-wilmington.html?_r=0



When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.

They were here to examine gun violence.

This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------



The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.

“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,”


the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”

Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.

Nearly half of NYC's shootings gang-related

Of the more than 300 homicides so far this year in New York City, almost half of those – 40 percent – were determined to be gang-related, with 49 percent of the city’s nearly 1,100 shootings tied to gangs as well.

-----

Data obtained by the Daily News from the NYPD’s Gang and Juvenile Justice divisions indicate that gang members may be as young as 10 years old, with most members in their teens and early twenties. Those who survive the lifestyle long enough often have extensive criminal records by their 30s.



----
---From an article on Operation Ceasefire...it cites the number of criminals in Oakland California who actually shoot people and who get shot, and there criminal backgrounds...

Beyond Gun Control
Lost in the debate is that even in high-crime cities, the risk of gun violence is mostly concentrated among a small number of men. In Oakland, for instance, crime experts working with the police department a few years ago found that about 1,000 active members of a few dozen street groups drove most homicides. That’s .3 percent of Oakland’s population. And even within this subgroup, risk fluctuated according to feuds and other beefs. In practical terms, the experts found that over a given stretch of several months only about 50 to 100 men are at the highest risk of shooting someone or getting shot.

Most of these men have criminal records. But it’s not drug deals or turf wars that drives most of the shootings.

Instead, the violence often starts with what seems to outsiders like trivial stuff—“a fight over a girlfriend, a couple of words, a dispute over a dice game,” said Vaughn Crandall, a senior strategist at the California Partnership for Safe Communities, which did the homicide analysis for Oakland.

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
-------
The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
----------
In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.



--------
In Philadelphia in 2011, of 324 murders, 81 percent (263) of the victims had at least one prior arrest; 62 percent (164) had been arrested for a violent crime prior to their murder.

----------

In Newark, N.J., long considered one of America’s most dangerous cities, 85 percent of the 165 murder victims between 2009 and 2010 had serious arrest histories.

Anthony Braga, a professor with the Rutgers-Newark School of Criminal Justice, told the Newark Star-Ledger that 85 percent of 165 murder victims in Newark between 2009 and 2010 had been arrested at least once before they were killed.

Those victims, he said, had, on average, 10 prior arrests on their criminal records.

A WND review of the Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from 2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time period.

Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.



***************
*****************
Public Health Pot Shots



These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.



Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.



According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."

A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs." And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.



Gangs in Fort Meyers Florida...



NBC2 Investigates: Gangs in Southwest Florida



The City of Fort Myers has been plagued with violence and murder. NBC2 Investigator Dave Elias dug deeper and found that drugs, crime and gangs are the common elements between those killings.

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott says the three go hand-in-hand and all appear to be playing a big role in the city's crime problem.

"They're punks. They're criminals. And in most cases – cowards," said Sheriff Scott.

He also explained that gang members live by a much different set of rules.

"We're at a more violent time right now than at any time I recall," said Sheriff Scott. "You're talking about an area that - per capita - is on par with Detroit Michigan, in terms of homicides."

There were 25 murders in Fort Myers alone last year. And Sheriff Scott says all of the killings have those three things in common – drugs, crime and gangs.

"In most every case this is criminal killing criminal. This is bad guy on bad guy," he said.



********************************

The Kate and Mauser study.......



http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I. VIOLENCE: THE DECISIVENESS OF SOCIAL FACTORS
One reason the extent of gun ownership in a society does not spur the murder rate is that murderers are not spread evenly throughout the population. Analysis of perpetrator studies shows that violent criminals—especially murderers—“almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behav‐ ior.”37 So it would not appreciably raise violence if all law‐ abiding, responsible people had firearms because they are not the ones who rape, rob, or murder.38 By the same token, violent crime would not fall if guns were totally banned to civilians. As the respective examples of Luxembourg and Russia suggest,39 individuals who commit violent crimes will either find guns despite severe controls or will find other weapons to use. 40
--------------------------



III. DO ORDINARY PEOPLE MURDER?

The “more guns equal more death” mantra seems plausible only when viewed through the rubric that murders mostly in‐ volve ordinary people who kill because they have access to a firearm when they get angry. If this were true, murder might well increase where people have ready access to firearms, but the available data provides no such correlation. Nations and


areas with more guns per capita do not have higher murder rates than those with fewer guns per capita.53

Nevertheless, critics of gun ownership often argue that a “gun in the closet to protect against burglars will most likely be used to shoot a spouse in a moment of rage . . . . The problem is you and me—law‐abiding folks;”54 that banning handgun posses‐ sion only for those with criminal records will “fail to protect us from the most likely source of handgun murder: ordinary citi‐ zens;”55 that “most gun‐related homicides . . . are the result of impulsive actions taken by individuals who have little or no criminal background or who are known to the victims;”56 that “the majority of firearm homicide[s occur] . . . not as the result of criminal activity, but because of arguments between people who know each other;”57 that each year there are thousands of gun murders “by law‐abiding citizens who might have stayed law‐abiding if they had not possessed firearms.”58

These comments appear to rest on no evidence and actually con‐ tradict facts that have so uniformly been established by homicide studies dating back to the 1890s that they have become “crimino‐ logical axioms.”59 Insofar as studies focus on perpetrators, they show that neither a majority, nor many, nor virtually any murder‐ ers are ordinary “law‐abiding citizens.”60

Rather, almost all mur‐ derers are extremely aberrant individuals with life histories of violence, psychopathology, substance abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. “The vast majority of persons involved in life‐ threatening violence have a long criminal record with many prior contacts with the justice system.”61 “Thus homicide—[whether] of a

stranger or [of] someone known to the offender—‘is usually part of a pattern of violence, engaged in by people who are known . . . as violence prone.’”62
Though only 15% of Americans over the age of 15 have arrest records,63 approximately 90 percent of “adult mur‐ derers have adult records, with an average adult criminal career [involving crimes committed as an adult rather than a child] of six or more years, including four major adult felony arrests.”64
These national statistics dovetail with data from local nineteenth and twentieth century studies. For example: victims as well as offenders [in 1950s and 1960s Philadelphia murders] . . . tended to be people with prior police records, usually for violent crimes such as as‐ sault.”65
“The great majority of both perpetrators and victims of [1970s Harlem] assaults and murders had previous [adult] arrests, probably over 80% or more.”66 Boston police and probation officers in the 1990s agreed that of those juvenile‐perpetrated murders where all the facts were known, virtually all were committed by gang members, though the killing was not necessarily gang‐ directed. 67 One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69
A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed
********

 

[theHawk]

Keep in mind the vast majority of crimes, including gun homicides, are committed by minorities. Something the UK and other European countries lack compared to the US. Idaho gun ownership rates are about as high as it gets, yet they have the lowest gun violence.

But, you have an Agenda. Don't let such facts get in the way.

Actually, that's not really true. Of 16,000 homicides, only 1800 a year are "gang related". So why you can comfort yourself in thinking the darkies are the ones eliminating each other... the fact is, it's more likely to be someone you know.

Wow you're a retard. I never said "gang related". The FBI stats clearly show how many blacks commit murders and other crimes.

 

[JoeB131]

How do you explain Mexico's violent murder rate being twice that of the United States despite having stricter gun laws?

They don't have "stricter" gun laws. They have a second Amendment, just like we do. THey also have gun stores on the border dropping 250,000 guns into the country every year.

Also, most of the "violent murder rate" is happening on the border with the US. Where all the drugs and human trafficking is happening.

 

[JoeB131]

And ofcourse you are wrong...here is the truth, the facts and the reality of gun murder in the U.S.....

Houston.....most shooters criminals

Once again, you are cherry picking data. You are great at that. That's not how science works, buddy.

 

[JoeB131]

Hardly made a diff.. Did it? But the rates of ASSAULTS, RAPES, AND OTHER violent crime went up..

again, the problem is, those crimes are all subjective. The British count any touching of naughty bits as a sexual assault, while the US has to have full penetration.

You are still wrong. you guys only care when the criminal is killed by the victim...and all the other times...

Someone with a tiny dick waved a gun around and felt better about himself. If you didn't need to kill him, your life probably wasn't in danger. The fact that no one can give me a credible number on DGU's... It ranges between 46K and 5MM... tells me it's a nebulous number at best.

But here's what's not nebulous. 33,000 gun deaths- and yes, the suicides and darkies count because they are still people - and 70,000 gun injuries.

 

[2aguy]

How do you explain Mexico's violent murder rate being twice that of the United States despite having stricter gun laws?

They don't have "stricter" gun laws. They have a second Amendment, just like we do. THey also have gun stores on the border dropping 250,000 guns into the country every year.

Also, most of the "violent murder rate" is happening on the border with the US. Where all the drugs and human trafficking is happening.

wrong twit...they don't let Mexican citizens have guns....and obama and holder were selling guns to the cartels......and the buy their military weapons from China and Europe and the Mexican military gives the weapons the U.S. sells them to the cartels......twit.

 

[2aguy]

Hardly made a diff.. Did it? But the rates of ASSAULTS, RAPES, AND OTHER violent crime went up..

again, the problem is, those crimes are all subjective. The British count any touching of naughty bits as a sexual assault, while the US has to have full penetration.

You are still wrong. you guys only care when the criminal is killed by the victim...and all the other times...

Someone with a tiny dick waved a gun around and felt better about himself. If you didn't need to kill him, your life probably wasn't in danger. The fact that no one can give me a credible number on DGU's... It ranges between 46K and 5MM... tells me it's a nebulous number at best.

But here's what's not nebulous. 33,000 gun deaths- and yes, the suicides and darkies count because they are still people - and 70,000 gun injuries.

You are such an idiot.......40 years of research and you of course know better than trained researchers.....what a twit...

As far as injuries go.....

How Many Accidental Gun Injuries per Year? - The Volokh Conspiracy

A guest on the HuffPost Live discussion noted in the post below mentioned that guns injure 5,000 people per year (presumably in the U.S.).

Actually, according to CDC’s WISQARS, there are about 14,000-19,000 nonfatal injuries stemming from accidental shootings per year in the U.S., though only about 600 people killed in such shootings.

As always, keep in mind the limitations of this data, including that some suicides and suicide attempts could be misclassified as accidents.

And as far as suicides go they do not count since they can kill themselves just as easily without guns...in fact there were about 21,000 suicides with guns in 2013, and 19,974 without guns....

And of course you ignore the truth, the fact and the reality that China, Japan, South Korea, France and all sorts of other countries with strict gun control have higher suicide rates than we do...twit.

 

[2aguy]

Hardly made a diff.. Did it? But the rates of ASSAULTS, RAPES, AND OTHER violent crime went up..

again, the problem is, those crimes are all subjective. The British count any touching of naughty bits as a sexual assault, while the US has to have full penetration.

You are still wrong. you guys only care when the criminal is killed by the victim...and all the other times...

Someone with a tiny dick waved a gun around and felt better about himself. If you didn't need to kill him, your life probably wasn't in danger. The fact that no one can give me a credible number on DGU's... It ranges between 46K and 5MM... tells me it's a nebulous number at best.

But here's what's not nebulous. 33,000 gun deaths- and yes, the suicides and darkies count because they are still people - and 70,000 gun injuries.

Yeah...thanks for giving me another reason to post actual research......these guys didn't pull the number out of their ass like you do...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[jon_berzerk]

Total UK murder / homicide rate in 2013/14 is 9.8 per million

 

[JoeB131]

wrong twit...they don't let Mexican citizens have guns....and obama and holder were selling guns to the cartels......and the buy their military weapons from China and Europe and the Mexican military gives the weapons the U.S. sells them to the cartels......twit.

I go and debunked these things again, but what's the point?

Jim Moran says 70 percent of traced firearms in Mexican drug crimes come from U.S.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah...thanks for giving me another reason to post actual research......these guys didn't pull the number out of their ass like you do...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers,

But that's the point. "Averages" are kind of meaningless when your low number is 45,000 (The FBI's figure) and your high number is 5 Million (Kleck's number).

Then, if you actually understand how math works, you look at how data was collected.

Kleck's was a small survey, done one time. The FBI's survey is ongoing review of multiple data points over a number of years including hundreds of thousands of people.

Of course, the problem is, a "DGU" is such a subjective standard. I'm sure every time your gun makes you feel better about your "Shortcomings", you call it a DGU.

 

[jasonnfree]

United Kingdom - 48 Homicides with guns a year
United States - 11,101 gun homicides a year

I can see why you like ancedotes and percentages... the raw numbers suck for you, Dick Tiny.

Of course, guns save lives also. Don't let em take guns away joe, you'll need them as tens of thousands more muslims pour into this country, such as happened to europe.

.Guns Save 2,191 Lives Each Day In The US: FBI ~ 32 Guns Purchased Every Minute In The United States.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course, guns save lives also. Don't let em take guns away joe, you'll need them as tens of thousands more muslims pour into this country, such as happened to europe.

Guy, I'm more worried about a white redneck going on a shooting spree than a scary Muslim...

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How do you explain Mexico's violent murder rate being twice that of the United States despite having stricter gun laws?

They don't have "stricter" gun laws. They have a second Amendment, just like we do. THey also have gun stores on the border dropping 250,000 guns into the country every year.

Mexico Shows That Tight Gun Control Laws Don't Guarantee Compliance

 

[jon_berzerk]

wrong twit...they don't let Mexican citizens have guns....and obama and holder were selling guns to the cartels......and the buy their military weapons from China and Europe and the Mexican military gives the weapons the U.S. sells them to the cartels......twit.

I go and debunked these things again, but what's the point?

Jim Moran says 70 percent of traced firearms in Mexican drug crimes come from U.S.

yeah fast n furious ring a bell

 

[NoNukes]

United Kingdom - 48 Homicides with guns a year
United States - 11,101 gun homicides a year

I can see why you like ancedotes and percentages... the raw numbers suck for you, Dick Tiny.

Stupid people will believe anything if it supports their cause.