California's Brown Signs Bill Permitting Non-Physician Abortions

[Spoonman]

As we see far too often, the real world data shows exactly the opposite of what Koshrgrl claims.

Yes Virginia, a study has been done on the safety of early abortions, comparing doctors vs. NP's. They should have assumed that was the case, being how the reality-based community can always back up claims with hard data. Alas, their crazy cult told them to babble nonsense, hence they went off with their usual wild conspiracy theories, and now look very silly.

Oh, the study.

Safety of Aspiration Abortion Performed by Nurse Practitioners, Certified Nurse Midwives, and Physician Assistants Under a California Legal Waiver

Summary:
No difference in the rate of serious complications. (6 out of 11,487)
A minor difference in the rate of minor complications. (but still far safer than being forced to wait for a later term abortion.)

So, this bill prevents Gosnells by increasing access to early legal abortion, with no sacrifice in safety. Since the pro-life goal is to create as many Gosnells as possible by restricting access to early abortion, pro-lifers will oppose the bill, no matter what the facts show. Their fear is that it will be a big success and spread to more states, undermining their national "make every abortionist a Gosnell" strategy.

this whole argument is really kind of stupid, because in the end what really matters is either way, an innocent baby still dies.

 

[koshergrl]

Yup.

 

[R.C. Christian]

California makes me sick.

 

[kaz]

As we see far too often, the real world data shows exactly the opposite of what Koshrgrl claims.

Yes Virginia, a study has been done on the safety of early abortions, comparing doctors vs. NP's. They should have assumed that was the case, being how the reality-based community can always back up claims with hard data. Alas, their crazy cult told them to babble nonsense, hence they went off with their usual wild conspiracy theories, and now look very silly.

Oh, the study.

Safety of Aspiration Abortion Performed by Nurse Practitioners, Certified Nurse Midwives, and Physician Assistants Under a California Legal Waiver

Summary:
No difference in the rate of serious complications. (6 out of 11,487)
A minor difference in the rate of minor complications. (but still far safer than being forced to wait for a later term abortion.)

So, this bill prevents Gosnells by increasing access to early legal abortion, with no sacrifice in safety. Since the pro-life goal is to create as many Gosnells as possible by restricting access to early abortion, pro-lifers will oppose the bill, no matter what the facts show. Their fear is that it will be a big success and spread to more states, undermining their national "make every abortionist a Gosnell" strategy.

this whole argument is really kind of stupid, because in the end what really matters is either way, an innocent baby still dies.

good thing we have government to be sure nothing bad happens

 

[Stephanie]

California makes me sick.

they are on the way of Detroit their taxing and ridiculous regulations they are putting on businesses is driving them out...then they will ONLY have all the people on their wonderful government handouts...it will be the life of luxury...the life of JULIAS

but all the elitist HOLLYWEIRD people and politicians like Pelos, Boxer, Brown can live in their liberal utopia..of course it will be behind their high gated walls with armed guards...but hey, they can afford it

 

[koshergrl]

oh look, a bunch of people who think there are too many people on the planet, and who consistently ignore the reality of abortion...who fight to prevent any oversight or restrictions or even basic reporting requirements...say it's safe!

I feel so much better.

Sheesh. Can you be more dense, please? Dr. Mengele says twin studies are good for twins.

 

[Spoonman]

ok, if abortion is really a solution to a problem, how about this. We abort all anchor babies. that would solve a problem

 

[kaz]

ok, if abortion is really a solution to a problem, how about this. We abort all anchor babies. that would solve a problem

Abortion, when government suddenly becomes the decision maker...

It's a woman's body. I am entitled to my opinion, I am not entitled to make her decision for her. Either way.

 

[koshergrl]

I think the people who think other people should die should take the first hit.

I think that anyway, but if it diverts them from their fixed intent to commit infanticide and, incidentally, to treat women like shit...well, I'm for it.

 

[Stephanie]

I can picture it now, on every street corner there will a store where go you go get your abortion...

flashing neon signs will read, one stop shopping for your abortion, quick and easy, cheap too

of course they will have to advertise in Spanish too

you call one it will be, press one for Spanish, two for English

 

[kaz]

I think the people who think other people should die should take the first hit.

I think that anyway, but if it diverts them from their fixed intent to commit infanticide and, incidentally, to treat women like shit...well, I'm for it.

Arguing like a liberal is beneath you. I know you're smarter than that.

To believe a woman has a right to her body isn't believing other people should die or having a fixed intent to commit infanticide.

I'll tell you what I tell liberals when they do that. Your inability to accurately address my actual view doesn't speak well for your conviction in the truth of your own argument.

 

[Spoonman]

I can picture it now, on every street corner there will a store where go you go get your abortion...

flashing neon signs will read, one stop shopping for your abortion, quick and easy, cheap too

of course they will have to advertise in Spanish too

you call one it will be, press one for Spanish, two for English

hey, now that cameras have gone digital and no one needs developing, we've got all those empty photomats. why let all that unused real estate go to waste.

 

[kaz]

I can picture it now, on every street corner there will a store where go you go get your abortion...

flashing neon signs will read, one stop shopping for your abortion, quick and easy, cheap too

of course they will have to advertise in Spanish too

you call one it will be, press one for Spanish, two for English

hey, now that cameras have gone digital and no one needs developing, we've got all those empty photomats. why let all that unused real estate go to waste.

Government should have bailed out photomats, it's a travesty....

 

[waronwhistleblo]

 

[Vox]

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

As all babykillers who have argued with me before know, and you are one of them, those numbers mean absolutely nothing since the clinics are not required by law to report, and complications and deaths are under reported...to the extent of not being reported at all. Women who die of blood poisoning do not have "blood poisoning caused by botched late term abortion 3 weeks ago" written on their death certs.

As you are aware.

What makes me disgusted are the WOMEN who know these things, who are willing to lie to other young women, and encourage them to risk their lives, in order to protect their *right* to abort future blunders.

Abortion isn’t ‘baby killing,’ it’s ignorant idiocy to suggest otherwise.

And it comes as no surprise you elect to ignore the facts, where complications for doctors and nondoctors were similar and rare, instead engaging in disgraceful demagoguery.

Except you did not read the study, if there was a study and don't know who payed for it, what methodology was used, the sampling of the group and so on. Without it the information is useless to say the least.

Women having mortal complications of an abortion do not die in abortion clinic unless it is a complication from anesthetic administration( which is a different totally issue her) but from sepsis or hemrrhage which can be delayed even to weeks - they would never be even considered by such thpe of comparison.

There are some comparative statistics for some practices with MDs and nurses providing - NONE of them withstand scientific research scrutiny and are useless. If that would be so easy that a monkey could be trAined, nobody would spend half a million dollars and more than a decade of time to train an MD or DO

 

[WelfareQueen]

As I said before, it's fine if an NP or PA wants to do abortions....just do a 2-3 year supervised clinical residency in OB/GYN like an MD does and everything is cool. We want what is best for the patient, don't we?

After all....isn't this about a woman's health?

 

[Stephanie]

As I said before, it's fine if an NP or PA wants to do abortions....just do a 2-3 year supervised clinical residency in OB/GYN like an MD does and everything is cool. We want what is best for the patient, don't we?

After all....isn't this about a woman's health?

I'd say good luck with that one

they already have illegal dentistry set ups in California.....they have messed up a lot people...
I know about it because I used to live there back in the 90's..
to me this bill just gives the go ahead for more of those except for abortions...

oh well, the people there don't care, I don't either

 

[Vox]

the report is from 2013...but the data she

sited is from 2008

YOU don't show ANY data, just blah-blah-blah

 

[Vox]

Who needs a doctor when youi're killing babies?..Women's rights?

Just so you know, women are not prevented from seeing a doctor...

The idea that government has the right to tell anyone ever who they are allowed to get medical care from is an abomination of liberty.

the abomination of liberty is lowering the standards of care in order to lower the costs.

 

[Vox]

ok, if abortion is really a solution to a problem, how about this. We abort all anchor babies. that would solve a problem

Abortion, when government suddenly becomes the decision maker...

It's a woman's body. I am entitled to my opinion, I am not entitled to make her decision for her. Either way.

except it is NOT a woman's body. It is murder of a human being.

Do you want to get government off prosecution of murdering human beings - let's say in 12 trimester? i

should we return to the ancient times? women and children at ANY stage of development were not considered human as well and no government involvement in killing a child or a woman? precious liberty - do you want to return to such a one?
NO?
WHY?
What is the difference?