Can a Catholic not like his communist Pope?

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Bullshit.



And that's how communism works for them, and has for five centuries.

Communism hasn't worked for anyone for 5 years, much less 5 centuries.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

quite the conundrum Catholics find themselves in.

The Pope is infallible, to them, every thing he says is right and should be followed

but

he is a fucking communist

tough call, freedom and hell or slaves and heaven

Many people would say Jesus was a communist. Would you abandon him just as easily?

Only a Progressive is stupid and arrogant enough to think Jesus was a Socialist.

 

[Care4all]

quite the conundrum Catholics find themselves in.

The Pope is infallible, to them, every thing he says is right and should be followed

but

he is a fucking communist

tough call, freedom and hell or slaves and heaven

Many people would say Jesus was a communist. Would you abandon him just as easily?

Jesus was not a communist and I defy you to prove otherwise.

Read Acts.

I'm familiar with one particular religious group --very familiar actually -- who's not Catholic but bases their entire social structure on common ownership. Nobody has any personal property other than their clothes. They live in a house built by the colony, all their work is entirely for the colony, which owns everything... they act as a collective in every way, eat together in a common building, etc. They do all of this based on their emphasis of Acts II. In other words they're what the poster above referred to as "fucking communists". The concept of individuality is almost incomprehensible to them. And they got all this from the Bible and they live it every day.

And I tell you what, they're the most self-sufficient and self-confident people I've ever seen. In their entire history they've had a total of I think one murder and two suicides. In five hundred years.

If you actually read the New Testament you'd see that certain parts of the church were forced underground by persecution and had to create a commune in order to survive. However even this came with problems that Paul had to address. When Paul said, "If anyone won't work, he won't eat" (2Thess 3:10) it was because communism produces a very serious problem in that when people are deprived of the fruits of their labor, they lose incentive to work.

This was the central problem with the Jamestown and Plymouth Rock colonies where an attempt at communism led to mass starvation and death. People were not allowed any stake in their own labor, or to hold private property and so people worked just hard enough not to be lashed and the results were devastating. At issue is human nature that doesn't value work that doesn't elevate one's own prosperity, that doesn't produce tangible results they personally own.

There is a problem with thinking that the Bible is perfect in every way, even to the point of thinking that the Bible lays out a perfect economic system. Acts was a recording of events, not a blueprint for social systems binding upon all Christians. The very fact that the New Testament plays out the problems that arose with the decisions that were made by leaders should indicate that they hadn't achieved utopia by any stretch. The "Bible Only" philosophy of Christian fundamentalists holds the Bible so sacrosanct that it's taboo to think outside of it, to examine it critically and to keep in mind that even the saints were flawed individuals who didn't always get it right.

Bullshit.

The religious colonies I'm talking about (Hutterites) work as a collective, simply because that's the mindset they believe in. It's simply not possible to stand by and watch someone else work. Doesn't happen. If there's even a smell in the air of work to be done, they descend on it en masse, because not doing so would be unthinkable. So yes Acts is very much a blueprint. It drives literally everything they do.

"Incentive to work" is inbred from birth. They have no hierarchy other than the Minister, who operates as a collective-cooperative (as opposed to authoritarian) manager. That's it.

How does it work out? Well their neighbors in the Dakotas and Montana view them with much trepidation as these colonies can and do grow much faster than they as individuals can, they can afford the capital investment they need sooner than their neighbors can as individuals, and simply run their operations more efficiently. They simply don't fart around competing with each other personally so that I as an individual must acquire a better car than you as an individual or have to acquire the latest iPad simply because it exists. There's no such thing as commodity fetishism in their culture. Doesn't exist. Everything revolves around the Colony.

As for persecution, well that's actually how they got here. They migrated (back) to the Dakotas from Canada, where they fled after our government persecuted them during WWI (a couple were tortured and died at Leavenworth); and they originally came here from Russia where they were persecuted out of there, and they came to Russia from elsewhere in eastern Europe (Romania I think?) where they were persecuted, etc etc, every time because they are devout pacifists who refuse to serve in any war or wear anybody's uniform. Inevitably in their history whatever government they've been under has driven them out for pacifism -- yet they take a stand and have never wavered from it. That's one of the most admirable traits I've ever seen in a human culture. And it teaches something about human organizational nature.

And that's how communism works for them, and has for five centuries.

I'm pretty certain, Capitalism, could not survive, without society breaking the 10th commandment of 'thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods...'

 

[Pogo]

Bullshit.



And that's how communism works for them, and has for five centuries.

Communism hasn't worked for anyone for 5 years, much less 5 centuries.

Sorry to burst that bubble but I've just illustrated that it does. I've witnessed it personally.
And when you experience -- it's either one murder and two suicides or one suicide and two murders, I forget which -- over a span of five hundred years, obviously you're pretty well satisfying the human heart. Put your blinders on real tight but that doesn't make it not exist.

Now living inside a capitalist society, some of them of course do get curious, and venture out to taste our world. Usually young men. Once they've seen both sides, guess what -- 99% of them return to the Colony.

Dave was one of these, at a colony in South Dakota. Dave had left the colony years before, went out, learned to play guitar and entertained in bars. He had enough of that and came back to his original life, where he still keeps his guitar and entertains his community in his house at night.

Now the Hutterites have this weird ban on musical instruments -- I don't quite understand that bit, maybe it's to prevent a class of musicians upsetting the classless society but that's just my speculation --- so every night when Dave entertains at home, somebody will watch at the window and give the warning "the Minister's coming!". Then the guitar goes under the bed, everyone sits around and smiles as the Minster says hello, exchanges small talk, then he leaves. Everybody involved knows exactly what's going on. The guitar comes back out and everything resumes. Everybody goes home happy.

Dave has a personal possession in the guitar. But it's used in service to his community. After all rules, like guitar strings, are made to be stretched and bent now and then. What's important is the greater good. Even the Minister, who's charged with enforcing the rules, can see that as he looks the other way.

It's not in his generous nature, but if Dave were to get all full of himself and start strutting around like he was something special, I have no doubt whatsoever that his Minister wouldn't have to put him in his place, because his community would have already done it pretty damn quick as soon as it began, music or no music. It's simply how they think; they take joy in what they are collectively, not what they are individually. The former has meaning, the latter doesn't.

And they got all this from Acts, which I guess just goes to show that a Bible or other religious text can be used constructively as well as destructively. It all depends on where you want to take it.

 

[Pogo]

Many people would say Jesus was a communist. Would you abandon him just as easily?

Jesus was not a communist and I defy you to prove otherwise.

Read Acts.

I'm familiar with one particular religious group --very familiar actually -- who's not Catholic but bases their entire social structure on common ownership. Nobody has any personal property other than their clothes. They live in a house built by the colony, all their work is entirely for the colony, which owns everything... they act as a collective in every way, eat together in a common building, etc. They do all of this based on their emphasis of Acts II. In other words they're what the poster above referred to as "fucking communists". The concept of individuality is almost incomprehensible to them. And they got all this from the Bible and they live it every day.

And I tell you what, they're the most self-sufficient and self-confident people I've ever seen. In their entire history they've had a total of I think one murder and two suicides. In five hundred years.

If you actually read the New Testament you'd see that certain parts of the church were forced underground by persecution and had to create a commune in order to survive. However even this came with problems that Paul had to address. When Paul said, "If anyone won't work, he won't eat" (2Thess 3:10) it was because communism produces a very serious problem in that when people are deprived of the fruits of their labor, they lose incentive to work.

This was the central problem with the Jamestown and Plymouth Rock colonies where an attempt at communism led to mass starvation and death. People were not allowed any stake in their own labor, or to hold private property and so people worked just hard enough not to be lashed and the results were devastating. At issue is human nature that doesn't value work that doesn't elevate one's own prosperity, that doesn't produce tangible results they personally own.

There is a problem with thinking that the Bible is perfect in every way, even to the point of thinking that the Bible lays out a perfect economic system. Acts was a recording of events, not a blueprint for social systems binding upon all Christians. The very fact that the New Testament plays out the problems that arose with the decisions that were made by leaders should indicate that they hadn't achieved utopia by any stretch. The "Bible Only" philosophy of Christian fundamentalists holds the Bible so sacrosanct that it's taboo to think outside of it, to examine it critically and to keep in mind that even the saints were flawed individuals who didn't always get it right.

Bullshit.

The religious colonies I'm talking about (Hutterites) work as a collective, simply because that's the mindset they believe in. It's simply not possible to stand by and watch someone else work. Doesn't happen. If there's even a smell in the air of work to be done, they descend on it en masse, because not doing so would be unthinkable. So yes Acts is very much a blueprint. It drives literally everything they do.

"Incentive to work" is inbred from birth. They have no hierarchy other than the Minister, who operates as a collective-cooperative (as opposed to authoritarian) manager. That's it.

How does it work out? Well their neighbors in the Dakotas and Montana view them with much trepidation as these colonies can and do grow much faster than they as individuals can, they can afford the capital investment they need sooner than their neighbors can as individuals, and simply run their operations more efficiently. They simply don't fart around competing with each other personally so that I as an individual must acquire a better car than you as an individual or have to acquire the latest iPad simply because it exists. There's no such thing as commodity fetishism in their culture. Doesn't exist. Everything revolves around the Colony.

As for persecution, well that's actually how they got here. They migrated (back) to the Dakotas from Canada, where they fled after our government persecuted them during WWI (a couple were tortured and died at Leavenworth); and they originally came here from Russia where they were persecuted out of there, and they came to Russia from elsewhere in eastern Europe (Romania I think?) where they were persecuted, etc etc, every time because they are devout pacifists who refuse to serve in any war or wear anybody's uniform. Inevitably in their history whatever government they've been under has driven them out for pacifism -- yet they take a stand and have never wavered from it. That's one of the most admirable traits I've ever seen in a human culture. And it teaches something about human organizational nature.

And that's how communism works for them, and has for five centuries.

I'm pretty certain, Capitalism, could not survive, without society breaking the 10th commandment of 'thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods...'

Bingo. Spot on.

 

[Pogo]

Oddly enough I was just in this same memory space with TheOldSchool just hours ago in a completely different topic. When I mentioned watching spectacular aurora borealis in Montana, that was at a Hutterite colony in the northwestern part of the state, up near the town of Cut Bank, not far from Alberta.

That particular colony had an opening for what they call an "English teacher" and were offering me the job. They also had by chance an abundance of females, at least one of which had her eye on me (and another of which, I had my eye on her). It would have required a serious upset of prior commitments but I seriously agonized over the prospect as I walked alone by the house built for the English teacher. Above me the dark dark Big Sky shimmered and shuddered in sheer curtains of purple and green and bluish light, seeming almost to beckon. Ultimately I took the safer course and declined but one muses for the rest of one's life over the proverbial Road Not Taken. But if I had a time machine and could go back to that point, cue the Aurora....

*The "English teacher" -- a teacher from the English world, that's us -- is a position hired by the colony to satisfy the agreement with the State (the US) that they teach their children (and they have a LOT of children) bare-bones basic schooling, including but not limited to the English language. They supply the teacher's housing (given their locale, commuting there would be impossible) and you move in.​

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Bullshit.



And that's how communism works for them, and has for five centuries.

Communism hasn't worked for anyone for 5 years, much less 5 centuries.

Sorry to burst that bubble but I've just illustrated that it does. I've witnessed it personally.
And when you experience -- it's either one murder and two suicides or one suicide and two murders, I forget which -- over a span of five hundred years, obviously you're pretty well satisfying the human heart. Put your blinders on real tight but that doesn't make it not exist.

Now living inside a capitalist society, some of them of course do get curious, and venture out to taste our world. Usually young men. Once they've seen both sides, guess what -- 99% of them return to the Colony.

Dave was one of these, at a colony in South Dakota. Dave had left the colony years before, went out, learned to play guitar and entertained in bars. He had enough of that and came back to his original life, where he still keeps his guitar and entertains his community in his house at night.

Now the Hutterites have this weird ban on musical instruments -- I don't quite understand that bit, maybe it's to prevent a class of musicians upsetting the classless society but that's just my speculation --- so every night when Dave entertains at home, somebody will watch at the window and give the warning "the Minister's coming!". Then the guitar goes under the bed, everyone sits around and smiles as the Minster says hello, exchanges small talk, then he leaves. Everybody involved knows exactly what's going on. The guitar comes back out and everything resumes. Everybody goes home happy.

Dave has a personal possession in the guitar. But it's used in service to his community. After all rules, like guitar strings, are made to be stretched and bent now and then. What's important is the greater good. Even the Minister, who's charged with enforcing the rules, can see that as he looks the other way.

It's not in his generous nature, but if Dave were to get all full of himself and start strutting around like he was something special, I have no doubt whatsoever that his Minister wouldn't have to put him in his place, because his community would have already done it pretty damn quick as soon as it began, music or no music. It's simply how they think; they take joy in what they are collectively, not what they are individually. The former has meaning, the latter doesn't.

And they got all this from Acts, which I guess just goes to show that a Bible or other religious text can be used constructively as well as destructively. It all depends on where you want to take it.

You're confusing "commune" with "communism". Don't worry, I didn't expect anything more from you, so you haven't disappointed me. The first word is a voluntary community that shares resources and property, the second is an involuntary system of government that redistributes resources according to a central planning scheme. An intelligent person can finesse the difference. Someone who ate the marshmallow cannot.

 

[Nutz]

__________________________________________________________
​

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

___________________________________________________________​

Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

You probably shouldn't worship a man...that way you wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[Unkotare]

How is it that your God allowed Pope Frank to ascend to the top position that he now occupies if he truly is as you say he is? Surely your God does not allow for a communist pinko to lead Catholic in the free world now does He? ~ Susan
PS If Popes really gave a crap about any poor person one would think that anyone of them throughout history would have sold off an old master painting, or two of the many that are locked in the Vatican vaults to relieve that person's suffering, would one not? Money . . . it drives our economy and that, too, the economy of the Vatican. Can you imagine a Pope plucking off a valuable ring off of one of his fat little fingers to relieve the suffering of one of his sheep? Nawww . . . totally impossible as we all know if we had the courage not to delude ourselves.

Pope to raffle gifts given to him to raise money for the poor Reuters


Pope Francis Auctions Off His Harley-Davidson CatholicVote.org


Pope Francis auctions off gifts he has received from world leaders Daily Mail Online

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

__________________________________________________________
​

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

___________________________________________________________​

Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

You probably shouldn't worship a man...that way you wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't. Only God is to be worshipped. Why do you need this to be explained to you?

 

[Pogo]

Bullshit.



And that's how communism works for them, and has for five centuries.

Communism hasn't worked for anyone for 5 years, much less 5 centuries.

Sorry to burst that bubble but I've just illustrated that it does. I've witnessed it personally.
And when you experience -- it's either one murder and two suicides or one suicide and two murders, I forget which -- over a span of five hundred years, obviously you're pretty well satisfying the human heart. Put your blinders on real tight but that doesn't make it not exist.

Now living inside a capitalist society, some of them of course do get curious, and venture out to taste our world. Usually young men. Once they've seen both sides, guess what -- 99% of them return to the Colony.

Dave was one of these, at a colony in South Dakota. Dave had left the colony years before, went out, learned to play guitar and entertained in bars. He had enough of that and came back to his original life, where he still keeps his guitar and entertains his community in his house at night.

Now the Hutterites have this weird ban on musical instruments -- I don't quite understand that bit, maybe it's to prevent a class of musicians upsetting the classless society but that's just my speculation --- so every night when Dave entertains at home, somebody will watch at the window and give the warning "the Minister's coming!". Then the guitar goes under the bed, everyone sits around and smiles as the Minster says hello, exchanges small talk, then he leaves. Everybody involved knows exactly what's going on. The guitar comes back out and everything resumes. Everybody goes home happy.

Dave has a personal possession in the guitar. But it's used in service to his community. After all rules, like guitar strings, are made to be stretched and bent now and then. What's important is the greater good. Even the Minister, who's charged with enforcing the rules, can see that as he looks the other way.

It's not in his generous nature, but if Dave were to get all full of himself and start strutting around like he was something special, I have no doubt whatsoever that his Minister wouldn't have to put him in his place, because his community would have already done it pretty damn quick as soon as it began, music or no music. It's simply how they think; they take joy in what they are collectively, not what they are individually. The former has meaning, the latter doesn't.

And they got all this from Acts, which I guess just goes to show that a Bible or other religious text can be used constructively as well as destructively. It all depends on where you want to take it.

You're confusing "commune" with "communism". [Don't worry, I didn't expect anything more from you, so you haven't disappointed me. The first word is a voluntary community that shares resources and property, the second is an involuntary system of government that redistributes resources according to a central planning scheme. An intelligent person can finesse the difference. Someone who ate the marshmallow cannot.

You're confusing "confusion" with "confusion". "Commune" is a space occupied by "commun(e)-ism"; "communism" is what a commune practices. Just as Buddhism is what a Buddhist practices or absolutism is what an absolutist practices.
Think about it. It's not complex.

The society I've described DOES distribute its resources according to a central planning scheme. Totally. That's the whole point of it. Nothing about its operation relates to "voluntary" or "involuntary" any more than any other social system.

But it's interesting you need to descend to ad hom at this juncture. It tells me you're afraid of the topic.

 

[Nutz]

__________________________________________________________
​

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

___________________________________________________________​

Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

You probably shouldn't worship a man...that way you wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't. Only God is to be worshipped. Why do you need this to be explained to you?

Yet you pray to Mary and man-made saints. Sure you worship the Pope. What did you call him, your Holiness?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

How is it that your God allowed Pope Frank to ascend to the top position that he now occupies if he truly is as you say he is? Surely your God does not allow for a communist pinko to lead Catholic in the free world now does He? ~ Susan
PS If Popes really gave a crap about any poor person one would think that anyone of them throughout history would have sold off an old master painting, or two of the many that are locked in the Vatican vaults to relieve that person's suffering, would one not? Money . . . it drives our economy and that, too, the economy of the Vatican. Can you imagine a Pope plucking off a valuable ring off of one of his fat little fingers to relieve the suffering of one of his sheep? Nawww . . . totally impossible as we all know if we had the courage not to delude ourselves.

Pope to raffle gifts given to him to raise money for the poor Reuters


Pope Francis Auctions Off His Harley-Davidson CatholicVote.org


Pope Francis auctions off gifts he has received from world leaders Daily Mail Online

He's definitely got a heart for people and for the poor, not the kind to keep aloof from the masses at all. He's at his best when ministering to people. I'm definitely touched by what I see as Christ like character in the man. But the other side of his persona is a craving for approval on the world stage and a compromise of the truth and the sacred mission of the Church in order to accommodate wordly, and dare I say Satanic, agendas. We all have our blindnesses. I just wish the person we choose to be the Vicar of Christ had fewer of them.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

__________________________________________________________
​

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

___________________________________________________________​

Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

You probably shouldn't worship a man...that way you wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't. Only God is to be worshipped. Why do you need this to be explained to you?

Yet you pray to Mary and man-made saints. Sure you worship the Pope. What did you call him, your Holiness?

It's a sign of reverence and respect for his office. Since I've never seen anything from you that even remotely looks like respect for anything I know this is beyond your comprehension.

 

[Pogo]

__________________________________________________________
​

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

___________________________________________________________​

Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

You probably shouldn't worship a man...that way you wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't. Only God is to be worshipped. Why do you need this to be explained to you?

Yet you pray to Mary and man-made saints. Sure you worship the Pope. What did you call him, your Holiness?

Clearly your understanding of Catholicism is about as deep as your understanding of Canada. You might wanna bow out and let the adults handle this, Nutz. There must be Canadian threads looking for a troll to take them down, eh?

 

[Nutz]

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Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
St. James 4:4

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Because I'm more than a little frustrated with my Pope. Already infamous for his many comments demonizing capitalism, he now proceeds to attack free speech and throw his weight behind the global warming cult.

WTF, your holiness?

Capitalism is the greatest engine to human freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind, global warming is nothing more than a wealth redistribution scheme with aims on global government, and when Islam kills people for insulting their pedophile prophet, the proper response is not to tell Christians to work harder not to offend Muslims.

Now the Bible passage I posted is a very appropriate rebuke of Pope Francis. Christians are not called to be friends with the world, to promote worldly values, and to mimic the demonic bigotry of worldly political correctness. Trying to win popularity among reprobate humanity by necessity requires abandoning Christ and our obligation to be the Light of Christ to the nations. Jesus calls us to be light in darkness, not to join the darkness. Jesus warned us that if our salt loses its saltiness, it becomes worthless, something to be thrown out as refuse. But most of all, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. We do not promote earthly kingdoms or international agendas, we are ambassadors of the kingdom of God.

But to put things in perspective, Catholics pray for the Pope, that he may benefit from a special grace, a pouring of the Holy Spirit to guide him. Historically, some Popes have demonstrated through their actions a deep, pious faith that indicates they operate through the Holy Spirit, but others have been corrupt, or sometimes outright evil. There's no need to post a list of bad Popes throughout the history of the Church. I consider myself blessed that I've been a contemporary to one Pope who was truly God's servant, the late Pope John Paul II, and even if he's the last righteous Pope I see in my lifetime, I would not consider myself robbed. Still it's disappointing to know that we have a corrupt Pope in office. I had such high hopes for him.

You probably shouldn't worship a man...that way you wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't. Only God is to be worshipped. Why do you need this to be explained to you?

Yet you pray to Mary and man-made saints. Sure you worship the Pope. What did you call him, your Holiness?

Clearly your understanding of Catholicism is about as deep as your understanding of Canada. You might wanna bow out and let the adults handle this, Nutz. There must be Canadian threads looking for a troll to take them down, eh?

Let me play with my rosary, pray to Mary and the pope and think about that one. Catholicism is not Christianity, it is a perversion of the word of God created to give godly powers to a select few men.

 

[Pogo]

How is it that your God allowed Pope Frank to ascend to the top position that he now occupies if he truly is as you say he is? Surely your God does not allow for a communist pinko to lead Catholic in the free world now does He? ~ Susan
PS If Popes really gave a crap about any poor person one would think that anyone of them throughout history would have sold off an old master painting, or two of the many that are locked in the Vatican vaults to relieve that person's suffering, would one not? Money . . . it drives our economy and that, too, the economy of the Vatican. Can you imagine a Pope plucking off a valuable ring off of one of his fat little fingers to relieve the suffering of one of his sheep? Nawww . . . totally impossible as we all know if we had the courage not to delude ourselves.

Pope to raffle gifts given to him to raise money for the poor Reuters


Pope Francis Auctions Off His Harley-Davidson CatholicVote.org


Pope Francis auctions off gifts he has received from world leaders Daily Mail Online

He's definitely got a heart for people and for the poor, not the kind to keep aloof from the masses at all. He's at his best when ministering to people. I'm definitely touched by what I see as Christ like character in the man. But the other side of his persona is a craving for approval on the world stage and a compromise of the truth and the sacred mission of the Church in order to accommodate wordly, and dare I say Satanic, agendas. We all have our blindnesses. I just wish the person we choose to be the Vicar of Christ had fewer of them.

I could slap an "agree" on this post if it had stopped halfway.

Please elaborate on these "Satanic agendas".

 

[Nutz]

Anyone ever been to a Catholic picnic. Drinking, gambling, fornication...not of God. Catholics are far from Christian as they pervert the word to satisfy their worldly needs.

 

[Pogo]

Anyone ever been to a Catholic picnic. Drinking, gambling, fornication...not of God. Catholics are far from Christian as they pervert the word to satisfy their worldly needs.

Boozing, betting and fucking are not sins. I did warn you that you were going to stain your pants again. Sure enough...

Btw there's no such thing as a "Catholic picnic". There's no "picnic" even mentioned in the Catholic Constitution.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

How is it that your God allowed Pope Frank to ascend to the top position that he now occupies if he truly is as you say he is? Surely your God does not allow for a communist pinko to lead Catholic in the free world now does He? ~ Susan
PS If Popes really gave a crap about any poor person one would think that anyone of them throughout history would have sold off an old master painting, or two of the many that are locked in the Vatican vaults to relieve that person's suffering, would one not? Money . . . it drives our economy and that, too, the economy of the Vatican. Can you imagine a Pope plucking off a valuable ring off of one of his fat little fingers to relieve the suffering of one of his sheep? Nawww . . . totally impossible as we all know if we had the courage not to delude ourselves.

Pope to raffle gifts given to him to raise money for the poor Reuters


Pope Francis Auctions Off His Harley-Davidson CatholicVote.org


Pope Francis auctions off gifts he has received from world leaders Daily Mail Online

He's definitely got a heart for people and for the poor, not the kind to keep aloof from the masses at all. He's at his best when ministering to people. I'm definitely touched by what I see as Christ like character in the man. But the other side of his persona is a craving for approval on the world stage and a compromise of the truth and the sacred mission of the Church in order to accommodate wordly, and dare I say Satanic, agendas. We all have our blindnesses. I just wish the person we choose to be the Vicar of Christ had fewer of them.

I could slap an "agree" on this post if it had stopped halfway.

Please elaborate on these "Satanic agendas".

Communism, global warming, and Islamic violence to silence free speech are Satanic agendas.

Any more questions?