Can a saved person backslide and be lost? (Ask Dr. Stanley)

[ninja007]

there is only one unforgivable sin. Hint- blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Taz]

there is only one unforgivable sin. Hint- blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

And then you put out a fatwa on the person?

 

[Blackrook]

Martin Luther spread lies and heresy and the concept that you can sin all you want after you are "saved" is one of his worst ideas.

 

[ninja007]

Martin Luther spread lies and heresy and the concept that you can sin all you want after you are "saved" is one of his worst ideas.

thats not what he says. Btw- just ONE SIN seperates us from God. That is why Jesus came- and He covered ALL OUR SINS.

 

[Taz]

Martin Luther spread lies and heresy and the concept that you can sin all you want after you are "saved" is one of his worst ideas.

thats not what he says. Btw- just ONE SIN seperates us from God. That is why Jesus came- and He covered ALL OUR SINS.

Go ahead, sin as much as you want. Jesus died for our sins, so that bill is already paid.

 

[Meriweather]

Go ahead, sin as much as you want. Jesus died for our sins, so that bill is already paid.

The problem with Martin Luther is that he went from end of the see-saw to the other. I'm not sure he every achieved a middle balance. Luther went from a perspective that he had to achieve, work out everything for himself, that it was all on his shoulders. Then, one day reflecting on grace, he ran to the opposite end of the see saw and decided grace took care of it all, and he didn't have to do a thing.

Christ taught that we needed to discern the will of the Father, and obey. He taught the Spirit and grace would be there to strengthen and guide us. He taught repentance (turning away from sin and to the Father) brought forgiveness. We are responsible for turning away from any sin we commit, seek forgiveness from God and others, and to right all the wrongs we are capable of righting that our sin brought(s) to others. Anything beyond our ability to right, God will see to.

Luther did not seriously teach, "Go out and sin greatly." His point was that the power of God can right any sin we may commit. We still have a responsibility to avoid sin with everything that is in us--and (with grace/because of grace), take care of all the consequences of sin that we can.

 

[Taz]

Go ahead, sin as much as you want. Jesus died for our sins, so that bill is already paid.

The problem with Martin Luther is that he went from end of the see-saw to the other. I'm not sure he every achieved a middle balance. Luther went from a perspective that he had to achieve, work out everything for himself, that it was all on his shoulders. Then, one day reflecting on grace, he ran to the opposite end of the see saw and decided grace took care of it all, and he didn't have to do a thing.

Christ taught that we needed to discern the will of the Father, and obey. He taught the Spirit and grace would be there to strengthen and guide us. He taught repentance (turning away from sin and to the Father) brought forgiveness. We are responsible for turning away from any sin we commit, seek forgiveness from God and others, and to right all the wrongs we are capable of righting that our sin brought(s) to others. Anything beyond our ability to right, God will see to.

Luther did not seriously teach, "Go out and sin greatly." His point was that the power of God can right any sin we may commit. We still have a responsibility to avoid sin with everything that is in us--and (with grace/because of grace), take care of all the consequences of sin that we can.

"the power of God can right any sin we may commit"
Sorta along the same line as my previous post: you can commit ANY sin and god will fix it/forgive you... That's why he let his only son die on the cross, to absolve or fix any sin we might commit.

 

[Meriweather]

"the power of God can right any sin we may commit"
Sorta along the same line as my previous post: you can commit ANY sin and god will fix it/forgive you... That's why he let his only son die on the cross, to absolve or fix any sin we might commit.

I have an entirely different take on that. Christ did not come so that we could sin, and sin more abundantly. He came to show us that obedience (not sin) is the path to eternal life--and that for sins to be forgiven, we simply need to repent. It is repentance for the forgiveness of sins, not Christ's death for the forgiveness of sins. Christ's death showed us obedience unto death, and God's power over death.

 

[LittleNipper]

The unforgivable sin is when the Holy Spirit convicts a sinner that he needs to accept Christ as his personal Savior, and the sinner rejects this as nonsense. The backslider may lose the chance of building treasures in heaven. The backslider may ruin his reputation while here on earth. And the backslider may have his life shortened. The true Christian who backslides never loses his salvation. The Gift of God is not one He takes back.

 

[amrchaos]

Strange--I thought Christians were not actually saved until AFTER they die.

I think the usage of "saved" is highly misused. Probably the best way to describe it is that you are actively in the process of being saved for Christians that are still alive.

At least that is how I look at it. But then I am not christian, s what do I know?

 

[LittleNipper]

Strange--I thought Christians were not actually saved until AFTER they die.

I think the usage of "saved" is highly misused. Probably the best way to describe it is that you are actively in the process of being saved for Christians that are still alive.

At least that is how I look at it. But then I am not christian, s what do I know?

God already knows who is saved and who is not. We are the ones seeing things from moment to moment. God sees eternity.

 

[jillian]

another jesus thread?

its very nice that the o/p thinks he's saved.

but I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in that much cares.

 

[LittleNipper]

Strange--I thought Christians were not actually saved until AFTER they die.

I think the usage of "saved" is highly misused. Probably the best way to describe it is that you are actively in the process of being saved for Christians that are still alive.

At least that is how I look at it. But then I am not christian, s what do I know?

God is omniscient and sees all those who will be saved from an eternity past. Saved is a very good word. It certainly beats being unsaved.

 

[amrchaos]

Strange--I thought Christians were not actually saved until AFTER they die.

I think the usage of "saved" is highly misused. Probably the best way to describe it is that you are actively in the process of being saved for Christians that are still alive.

At least that is how I look at it. But then I am not christian, s what do I know?

God already knows who is saved and who is not. We are the ones seeing things from moment to moment. God sees eternity.

I think that is the gist of it. God knows you are saved or not after you die, right(since he is going to judge you after you die)

Until then, you are working to maintain a favorable judgeship.

 

[amrchaos]

another jesus thread?

its very nice that the o/p thinks he's saved.

but I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in that much cares.

Do I really care, to be honest, no.

However, I find this to be an interesting subject matter in Christianity. I mean, they don't get a CLEAR and PRECISE status report from Jesus on what they are doing right or wrong, so the whole concept of being saved while still alive is more like hopeful thinking.

They will not know the truth of the matter until after they physically die. By then, its to late.

 

[jillian]

another jesus thread?

its very nice that the o/p thinks he's saved.

but I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in that much cares.

Do I really care, to be honest, no.

However, I find this to be an interesting subject matter in Christianity. I mean, they don't get a CLEAR and PRECISE status report from Jesus on what they are doing right or wrong, so the whole concept of being saved while still alive is more like hopeful thinking.

They will not know the truth of the matter until after they physically die. By then, its to late.

I have no problem discussing issues of faith. comparative religion fascinates me.

I have zero patience, however, for arrogant people who think i'm going to hell and they're *saved* because I don't believe in their particular brand of religion.

 

[LittleNipper]

Strange--I thought Christians were not actually saved until AFTER they die.

I think the usage of "saved" is highly misused. Probably the best way to describe it is that you are actively in the process of being saved for Christians that are still alive.

At least that is how I look at it. But then I am not christian, s what do I know?

God already knows who is saved and who is not. We are the ones seeing things from moment to moment. God sees eternity.

I think that is the gist of it. God knows you are saved or not after you die, right(since he is going to judge you after you die)

Until then, you are working to maintain a favorable judgeship.

God judges our works. God judges the unsaved to give such the appropriate degree of eternal punishment. God judges the saved to give the best eternal treasure.

 

[Taz]

"the power of God can right any sin we may commit"
Sorta along the same line as my previous post: you can commit ANY sin and god will fix it/forgive you... That's why he let his only son die on the cross, to absolve or fix any sin we might commit.

I have an entirely different take on that. Christ did not come so that we could sin, and sin more abundantly. He came to show us that obedience (not sin) is the path to eternal life--and that for sins to be forgiven, we simply need to repent. It is repentance for the forgiveness of sins, not Christ's death for the forgiveness of sins. Christ's death showed us obedience unto death, and God's power over death.

Everyone always says "Jesus died on the cross for your sins". So he either died for my sins or he didn't. I say he did.

 

[amrchaos]

another jesus thread?

its very nice that the o/p thinks he's saved.

but I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in that much cares.

Do I really care, to be honest, no.

However, I find this to be an interesting subject matter in Christianity. I mean, they don't get a CLEAR and PRECISE status report from Jesus on what they are doing right or wrong, so the whole concept of being saved while still alive is more like hopeful thinking.

They will not know the truth of the matter until after they physically die. By then, its to late.

I have no problem discussing issues of faith. comparative religion fascinates me.

I have zero patience, however, for arrogant people who think i'm going to hell and they're *saved* because I don't believe in their particular brand of religion.

Wait a second. Aren't you Jewish? Despite what the christians say, aren't Jews "grandfathered" into being saved?


Let see--

1.Believe in the father--who suppose to be the god of Abraham
2. Hold up the Law(the "strict" version) which is supposed to be what Jesus taught and did not change
3.Faithfully maintain all the covenants

OK, so how are Jews not saved? Is it not believing in Jesus is the messiah? Why is that even needed if you are basically doing everything he said which is 2--Uphold the Law?

 

[jillian]

another jesus thread?

its very nice that the o/p thinks he's saved.

but I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in that much cares.

Do I really care, to be honest, no.

However, I find this to be an interesting subject matter in Christianity. I mean, they don't get a CLEAR and PRECISE status report from Jesus on what they are doing right or wrong, so the whole concept of being saved while still alive is more like hopeful thinking.

They will not know the truth of the matter until after they physically die. By then, its to late.

I have no problem discussing issues of faith. comparative religion fascinates me.

I have zero patience, however, for arrogant people who think i'm going to hell and they're *saved* because I don't believe in their particular brand of religion.

Wait a second. Aren't you Jewish? Despite what the christians say, aren't Jews "grandfathered" into being saved?


Let see--

1.Believe in the father--who suppose to be the god of Abraham
2. Hold up the Law(the "strict" version) which is supposed to be what Jesus taught and did not change
3.Faithfully maintain all the covenants

OK, so how are Jews not saved? Is it not believing in Jesus is the messiah? Why is that even needed if you are basically doing everything he said which is 2--Uphold the Law?

I think you should ask the o/p if he thinks jews are saved. I've seen an awful lot of fundies say we're going to hell (which jews don't believe in, btw).