Can poor people be trusted with guns?

[KevinWestern]

It's not poor people you have to worry about, it's the criminals..Seems to me if the poor folks had guns, they can protect themselves from the crimes happening in their neighborhood.

I'm pro-second amendment and pro-gun ownership. No need to convince me.

I'm in favor of a few regulation tweaks (some of the NRA rules are bogus - like the inability to trace murder weapons back to a source), but that's about it.

How do you trace a murder weapon when it was stolen from its rightful owner? I get trace requests periodically from ATF. In many cases I know about the gun had been stolen the previous week. It's bogus. It doesnt stop crime or solve crime.

Believe me, I claim not to be an expert on the subject, but very large illegal supply chains are getting handguns to the gangs in Chicago from the outside. I would suspect that not all of those guns are being stolen from law abiding citizens, and that a great deal are being purchased legally and willfully sold to individuals within the gun free zone.

I think it'd be pretty obvious for the police to distinguish between a murder weapon being traced back to law abiding citizen Joe Schmo (who reported a stolen gun, ect) vs a suspicious citizen who has been buying guns in some very unorthodox patterns, ect.

So-called assault weapons may not be involved in a large number of murders each year, but handguns are.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm pro-second amendment and pro-gun ownership. No need to convince me.

I'm in favor of a few regulation tweaks (some of the NRA rules are bogus - like the inability to trace murder weapons back to a source), but that's about it.

How do you trace a murder weapon when it was stolen from its rightful owner? I get trace requests periodically from ATF. In many cases I know about the gun had been stolen the previous week. It's bogus. It doesnt stop crime or solve crime.

Believe me, I claim not to be an expert on the subject, but very large illegal supply chains are getting handguns to the gangs in Chicago from the outside. I would suspect that not all of those guns are being stolen from law abiding citizens, and that a great deal are being purchased legally and willfully sold to individuals within the gun free zone.

I think it'd be pretty obvious for the police to distinguish between a murder weapon being traced back to law abiding citizen Joe Schmo (who reported a stolen gun, ect) vs a suspicious citizen who has been buying guns in some very unorthodox patterns, ect.

So-called assault weapons may not be involved in a large number of murders each year, but handguns are.

No, the vast majority are stolen. Since dealers have to submit a multiple sales form when someone buys 2 or more handguns ATF follows up on suspicious patterns. I was part of such an investigation myself.
Criminals are not that smart. Really.

 

[Dubya]

By John Lott
12 March, 2013


Can poor people be trusted with guns? Overwhelmingly, Republicans thinks so. But while Democrats fight against taxes on the poor and oppose voter photo IDs because they impose too much of burden, they seem to be doing everything possible – from fees, expensive training requirements, and photo IDs -- to make it next to impossible for the poor to own guns.

Indeed, legislation in at least 17 states around the country is aimed specifically at making it more costly to own a gun. Democrats are voting in mass against exempting the poor from fees when it comes to guns. New Yorkers aren't alone facing everything from registration fees to buying liability insurance.

That's too bad, because many law-abiding citizens, particularly minorities in crime-ridden neighborhoods really do need a gun for self-defense. There is little doubt that the people who are most likely to be victims of violent crime – again, overwhelmingly poor blacks in urban areas -- are also the ones who benefit the most from owning guns. Research, including my own, has demonstrated this.

Apparently, Democrats believe that the right to self-defense is something that only belongs to the wealthy.


(Excerpt)

Read more:
Ellen Ratner - Archive - FoxNews.com

Haven't you seen the polls? Those Black and Hispanic people who are more likely to be victims of guns are the ones who support gun control the most. When you go to places like urban areas that have the most homicides, they are the ones who support gun control. It's the Whites living in the rural areas who oppose gun control and they aren't the victims of the gun violence. Men and women have different ways of protecting their family. A man is more inclined to want a gun to protect his family and a women is more inclined to not want a gun in the house to protect her family.

When it comes to Democrats, they aren't getting bought like Republicans to destroy effective gun control legislation, so the gun manufacturers can make their profits and the NRA can profit as well.

You people are a bunch of cowards hiding away from the gun violence and fucking it up for the people who suffer gun violence.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Poor people and minorities - principally, blacks - commit the majority of gun-related violent crimes -- placing an income and race requirement on the ownership of firearms will therefore go a long way to solve the problem of gun violence.
As these people are most likely to commit crimes with guns, doesnlt it make sense to restrict their right to do so - just in case?

 

[ima]

Poor people and minorities - principlally, blacks - commit the majority of gun-related violent crimes -- placing an income and race requirement on the ownership of firearms will therefore go a long way to solve the problem of gun violence.

IQ tests would help too. Sorry, you failed the exam.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm pro-second amendment and pro-gun ownership. No need to convince me.

I'm in favor of a few regulation tweaks (some of the NRA rules are bogus - like the inability to trace murder weapons back to a source), but that's about it.

How do you trace a murder weapon when it was stolen from its rightful owner? I get trace requests periodically from ATF. In many cases I know about the gun had been stolen the previous week. It's bogus. It doesnt stop crime or solve crime.

Believe me, I claim not to be an expert on the subject, but very large illegal supply chains are getting handguns to the gangs in Chicago from the outside. I would suspect that not all of those guns are being stolen from law abiding citizens, and that a great deal are being purchased legally and willfully sold to individuals within the gun free zone.

Or... more likely... the individuals in the gun-free zone exit said zone and buy the guns.

So-called assault weapons may not be involved in a large number of murders each year, but handguns are....

...and it is unconstitutional to ban handguns.

 

[Truthmatters]

The real question is can the government?

here is an idiot tin foil hat fool claiming the military should be disbanned

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Poor people and minorities - principlally, blacks - commit the majority of gun-related violent crimes -- placing an income and race requirement on the ownership of firearms will therefore go a long way to solve the problem of gun violence.

So the 2nd amendment doesn't really apply to the poor, blacks and whomever else you don't like.

Got it.

 

[KevinWestern]

The real question is can the government?

here is an idiot tin foil hat fool claiming the military should be disbanned

Truth - Before calling him an idiot, I think it's worthwhile to think back on all of the HUNDREDS of well documented examples in history of governments using guns to kill or maliciously control its own or neighboring populations.

I mean, there are a lot of people still alive today (right?) that fought Germany, Italy, and Japan in an all out World War because of this specific reason. Millions dead. Millions murdered.

Happens over, and over, and over, again, yet if someone says it's plausible for this to happen in America in the next 50 to 100 years, you're a "loony", ect. Why is that?


.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

By John Lott
12 March, 2013


Can poor people be trusted with guns? Overwhelmingly, Republicans thinks so. But while Democrats fight against taxes on the poor and oppose voter photo IDs because they impose too much of burden, they seem to be doing everything possible – from fees, expensive training requirements, and photo IDs -- to make it next to impossible for the poor to own guns.

Indeed, legislation in at least 17 states around the country is aimed specifically at making it more costly to own a gun. Democrats are voting in mass against exempting the poor from fees when it comes to guns. New Yorkers aren't alone facing everything from registration fees to buying liability insurance.

That's too bad, because many law-abiding citizens, particularly minorities in crime-ridden neighborhoods really do need a gun for self-defense. There is little doubt that the people who are most likely to be victims of violent crime – again, overwhelmingly poor blacks in urban areas -- are also the ones who benefit the most from owning guns. Research, including my own, has demonstrated this.

Apparently, Democrats believe that the right to self-defense is something that only belongs to the wealthy.


(Excerpt)

Read more:
Ellen Ratner - Archive - FoxNews.com

Haven't you seen the polls? Those Black and Hispanic people who are more likely to be victims of guns are the ones who support gun control the most. When you go to places like urban areas that have the most homicides, they are the ones who support gun control. It's the Whites living in the rural areas who oppose gun control and they aren't the victims of the gun violence. Men and women have different ways of protecting their family. A man is more inclined to want a gun to protect his family and a women is more inclined to not want a gun in the house to protect her family.

When it comes to Democrats, they aren't getting bought like Republicans to destroy effective gun control legislation, so the gun manufacturers can make their profits and the NRA can profit as well.

You people are a bunch of cowards hiding away from the gun violence and fucking it up for the people who suffer gun violence.

Origin of the term "Saturday Night Special"

In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, civil rights attorney and gun scholar Don Kates found racial overtones in the focus on the Saturday Night Special[16] ("niggertown Saturday night special"). Even gun control advocate Robert Sherrill claimed: "The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks."[17]

The earliest known use of the term "Saturday night special" in print is in the August 17, 1968 issue of the New York Times. In a front-page article titled Handgun Imports Held Up by U.S, author Fred Graham wrote, "... cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night specials' that are a favorite of holdup men..."

Among some law enforcement officers, the term has also applied to home made or improvised weapons, such as "zip guns." The idea behind the slang being that such a weapon made during the week would be used in a crime over the weekend; Saturday night being the peak night for such crimes.

M.A. (Merle Avery) Gill's Underworld Slang, a dictionary published in 1929, includes an entry called "Saturday night pistol" with this simple definition: ".25 automatic."

The Oxford English Dictionary notes that the descriptor "Saturday night" has been in use since 1847 to refer to activities taking place on, or as on, a Saturday night - especially in the form of revelry.

Read more:
Saturday night special - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dubya]

By John Lott
12 March, 2013


Can poor people be trusted with guns? Overwhelmingly, Republicans thinks so. But while Democrats fight against taxes on the poor and oppose voter photo IDs because they impose too much of burden, they seem to be doing everything possible – from fees, expensive training requirements, and photo IDs -- to make it next to impossible for the poor to own guns.

Indeed, legislation in at least 17 states around the country is aimed specifically at making it more costly to own a gun. Democrats are voting in mass against exempting the poor from fees when it comes to guns. New Yorkers aren't alone facing everything from registration fees to buying liability insurance.

That's too bad, because many law-abiding citizens, particularly minorities in crime-ridden neighborhoods really do need a gun for self-defense. There is little doubt that the people who are most likely to be victims of violent crime – again, overwhelmingly poor blacks in urban areas -- are also the ones who benefit the most from owning guns. Research, including my own, has demonstrated this.

Apparently, Democrats believe that the right to self-defense is something that only belongs to the wealthy.


(Excerpt)

Read more:
Ellen Ratner - Archive - FoxNews.com

Haven't you seen the polls? Those Black and Hispanic people who are more likely to be victims of guns are the ones who support gun control the most. When you go to places like urban areas that have the most homicides, they are the ones who support gun control. It's the Whites living in the rural areas who oppose gun control and they aren't the victims of the gun violence. Men and women have different ways of protecting their family. A man is more inclined to want a gun to protect his family and a women is more inclined to not want a gun in the house to protect her family.

When it comes to Democrats, they aren't getting bought like Republicans to destroy effective gun control legislation, so the gun manufacturers can make their profits and the NRA can profit as well.

You people are a bunch of cowards hiding away from the gun violence and fucking it up for the people who suffer gun violence.

Origin of the term "Saturday Night Special"

In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, civil rights attorney and gun scholar Don Kates found racial overtones in the focus on the Saturday Night Special[16] ("niggertown Saturday night special"). Even gun control advocate Robert Sherrill claimed: "The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks."[17]

The earliest known use of the term "Saturday night special" in print is in the August 17, 1968 issue of the New York Times. In a front-page article titled Handgun Imports Held Up by U.S, author Fred Graham wrote, "... cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night specials' that are a favorite of holdup men..."

Among some law enforcement officers, the term has also applied to home made or improvised weapons, such as "zip guns." The idea behind the slang being that such a weapon made during the week would be used in a crime over the weekend; Saturday night being the peak night for such crimes.

M.A. (Merle Avery) Gill's Underworld Slang, a dictionary published in 1929, includes an entry called "Saturday night pistol" with this simple definition: ".25 automatic."

The Oxford English Dictionary notes that the descriptor "Saturday night" has been in use since 1847 to refer to activities taking place on, or as on, a Saturday night - especially in the form of revelry.

Read more:
Saturday night special - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ethnicity of the person being victimized by gun crime doesn't interest me, I just brought it up to prove the victims of crimes are the ones wanting solutions. If you go around the world, you can find the same problems with any ethnicity. There are mainly three dynamics causing the gun violence in our inner cities and they are poverty, drugs and guns are easy to acquire. We are only talking about gun control here and there are ways to restrict guns going into cities and reduce gun violence. The problem is you idiots have some stupid notion about the intent of the 2nd Amendment meaning more than just not disarming the populace. In your fucked up minds, the Founders of this country didn't produce a government to work for the benefit of the people and you only promote ways to fuck the people, while claiming government doesn't work. It's your fucked up government that doesn't work and that's why the people don't want to vote for the Republicans. We're looking for solutions to problems and you are the problem and not the solution. Getting rid of your kind is part of the solution.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

Haven't you seen the polls? Those Black and Hispanic people who are more likely to be victims of guns are the ones who support gun control the most. When you go to places like urban areas that have the most homicides, they are the ones who support gun control. It's the Whites living in the rural areas who oppose gun control and they aren't the victims of the gun violence. Men and women have different ways of protecting their family. A man is more inclined to want a gun to protect his family and a women is more inclined to not want a gun in the house to protect her family.

When it comes to Democrats, they aren't getting bought like Republicans to destroy effective gun control legislation, so the gun manufacturers can make their profits and the NRA can profit as well.

You people are a bunch of cowards hiding away from the gun violence and fucking it up for the people who suffer gun violence.

Origin of the term "Saturday Night Special"

In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, civil rights attorney and gun scholar Don Kates found racial overtones in the focus on the Saturday Night Special[16] ("niggertown Saturday night special"). Even gun control advocate Robert Sherrill claimed: "The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks."[17]

The earliest known use of the term "Saturday night special" in print is in the August 17, 1968 issue of the New York Times. In a front-page article titled Handgun Imports Held Up by U.S, author Fred Graham wrote, "... cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night specials' that are a favorite of holdup men..."

Among some law enforcement officers, the term has also applied to home made or improvised weapons, such as "zip guns." The idea behind the slang being that such a weapon made during the week would be used in a crime over the weekend; Saturday night being the peak night for such crimes.

M.A. (Merle Avery) Gill's Underworld Slang, a dictionary published in 1929, includes an entry called "Saturday night pistol" with this simple definition: ".25 automatic."

The Oxford English Dictionary notes that the descriptor "Saturday night" has been in use since 1847 to refer to activities taking place on, or as on, a Saturday night - especially in the form of revelry.

Read more:
Saturday night special - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ethnicity of the person being victimized by gun crime doesn't interest me, I just brought it up to prove the victims of crimes are the ones wanting solutions. If you go around the world, you can find the same problems with any ethnicity. There are mainly three dynamics causing the gun violence in our inner cities and they are poverty, drugs and guns are easy to acquire. We are only talking about gun control here and there are ways to restrict guns going into cities and reduce gun violence. The problem is you idiots have some stupid notion about the intent of the 2nd Amendment meaning more than just not disarming the populace. In your fucked up minds, the Founders of this country didn't produce a government to work for the benefit of the people and you only promote ways to fuck the people, while claiming government doesn't work. It's your fucked up government that doesn't work and that's why the people don't want to vote for the Republicans. We're looking for solutions to problems and you are the problem and not the solution. Getting rid of your kind is part of the solution.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RABZq5IoaQ&feature=player_embedded#!][SHORT VERSION] Black conservative leaders discuss how the NRA was created to protect freed slaves - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Dubya]

Origin of the term "Saturday Night Special"

In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, civil rights attorney and gun scholar Don Kates found racial overtones in the focus on the Saturday Night Special[16] ("niggertown Saturday night special"). Even gun control advocate Robert Sherrill claimed: "The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks."[17]

The earliest known use of the term "Saturday night special" in print is in the August 17, 1968 issue of the New York Times. In a front-page article titled Handgun Imports Held Up by U.S, author Fred Graham wrote, "... cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night specials' that are a favorite of holdup men..."

Among some law enforcement officers, the term has also applied to home made or improvised weapons, such as "zip guns." The idea behind the slang being that such a weapon made during the week would be used in a crime over the weekend; Saturday night being the peak night for such crimes.

M.A. (Merle Avery) Gill's Underworld Slang, a dictionary published in 1929, includes an entry called "Saturday night pistol" with this simple definition: ".25 automatic."

The Oxford English Dictionary notes that the descriptor "Saturday night" has been in use since 1847 to refer to activities taking place on, or as on, a Saturday night - especially in the form of revelry.

Read more:
Saturday night special - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ethnicity of the person being victimized by gun crime doesn't interest me, I just brought it up to prove the victims of crimes are the ones wanting solutions. If you go around the world, you can find the same problems with any ethnicity. There are mainly three dynamics causing the gun violence in our inner cities and they are poverty, drugs and guns are easy to acquire. We are only talking about gun control here and there are ways to restrict guns going into cities and reduce gun violence. The problem is you idiots have some stupid notion about the intent of the 2nd Amendment meaning more than just not disarming the populace. In your fucked up minds, the Founders of this country didn't produce a government to work for the benefit of the people and you only promote ways to fuck the people, while claiming government doesn't work. It's your fucked up government that doesn't work and that's why the people don't want to vote for the Republicans. We're looking for solutions to problems and you are the problem and not the solution. Getting rid of your kind is part of the solution.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RABZq5IoaQ&feature=player_embedded#!][SHORT VERSION] Black conservative leaders discuss how the NRA was created to protect freed slaves - YouTube[/ame]​

I'm not interested in your bullshit that race is involved in gun control. We just want the criminals to not have an easy time getting guns and I don't care what race that criminal belongs to. Black people don't want Black criminals getting guns and they don't want White criminals getting guns. Only White people in rural areas support these loose gun laws. They're too busy protecting themselves from crime that isn't there to worry about the people who are victims of crime. That's the selfish fucking way you idiots are!

 

[Wehrwolfen]

The ethnicity of the person being victimized by gun crime doesn't interest me, I just brought it up to prove the victims of crimes are the ones wanting solutions. If you go around the world, you can find the same problems with any ethnicity. There are mainly three dynamics causing the gun violence in our inner cities and they are poverty, drugs and guns are easy to acquire. We are only talking about gun control here and there are ways to restrict guns going into cities and reduce gun violence. The problem is you idiots have some stupid notion about the intent of the 2nd Amendment meaning more than just not disarming the populace. In your fucked up minds, the Founders of this country didn't produce a government to work for the benefit of the people and you only promote ways to fuck the people, while claiming government doesn't work. It's your fucked up government that doesn't work and that's why the people don't want to vote for the Republicans. We're looking for solutions to problems and you are the problem and not the solution. Getting rid of your kind is part of the solution.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RABZq5IoaQ&feature=player_embedded#!][SHORT VERSION] Black conservative leaders discuss how the NRA was created to protect freed slaves - YouTube[/ame]​

I'm not interested in your bullshit that race is involved in gun control. We just want the criminals to not have an easy time getting guns and I don't care what race that criminal belongs to. Black people don't want Black criminals getting guns and they don't want White criminals getting guns. Only White people in rural areas support these loose gun laws. They're too busy protecting themselves from crime that isn't there to worry about the people who are victims of crime. That's the selfish fucking way you idiots are!

Hmm... In your own previous words, are you using the word "criminal" as a code word for "Black".

 

[Dubya]

In your own previous words, you're a fool!

 

[ima]

Poor people obviously can't be trusted with money.

 

[Truthmatters]

that is not what was found when it was studied

 

[SuMar]

Just because one is poor, does it automatically change their status to criminal?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Just because one is poor, does it automatically change their status to criminal?

As the poor and minorities - especially blacks - are most likely to commit crimes with guns, doesn't it make sense to restrict their right to buy/own them - just in case?

 

[The Rabbi]

Just because one is poor, does it automatically change their status to criminal?

As the poor and minorities - especially blacks - are most likely to commit crimes with guns, doesn't it make sense to restrict their right to buy/own them - just in case?

But they are also the most likely to be victims of crime. So maybe they need subsidies to buy them.