Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS.

The plutocrats have had their way with the rest of us for years. If you are among the very very rich, you have had it GREAT.

The unwashed masses have finally figured that out.

Trump is offering a authoritarian populist figure as an alternative to the plutocrats that run the country.

The plutocrats are not happy.

Bernie is offering the same idea, just in a different way.

Very interesting.

One amazing thing I'm hearing (I don't have data on this) is that there is more than a little crossover support between Trump & Sanders.

Incredible.
.

I, for one, am a part of that thinking. I want a person in the White House who is vested in the American Dream of Liberty and Justice for all. Main stream Republican and Democrat leaders alike have abandoned that ideal. A black being elected has nothing to do with the current unrest. It has simply happened that a black man, who was elected, has failed to deliver on that ideal. If I were to cast blame, I personally would charge the senior Bush and his pushing the GOP to embrace the New World Order at the expense of all Americans. As a now registered Independent voter my vote will go to either Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. If that makes me a "Populist" then so be it. I am sick of business as usual and the deceit it fosters. Liberals and Conservative alike make me ill. And yes, fortress America sounds better with each passing moment. Two thirds of nations on this globe contribute very little internally to cause the globe to prosper. They have had more assistance over the past fifty years than they will admit and still fail. What have the open border trade agreements done other than hurt Americans. No thank you to them on that issue. Nuff said.

I have heard anecdotal evidence that Trump and Sanders share some support, that's fascinating. And I can see it, even if the two guys are polar opposites in so many ways. That's clearly how frustrated so many people are right now.

Good stuff, thanks.
.

 

[rdean]

People looked to the GOP, to push back 11,000,000 Illegal Aliens... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the wars that it started... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs overseas... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to turn around the economy it wrecked... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to make trickle-down economics work... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to rescue the Middle Class... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the Obama Social Reengineering juggernaut... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to provide equitable tax reform for all... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to streamline the government... and it failed to do so.

People have come to the conclusion that Republican leadership is almost as full of shit as Democratic leadership.

But, there's really no point in trying to launch a Third Party, the way things are now.

So.. the Pubs find themselves with a Populist Rebellion on their hands...

People are shoving aside the existing (Establishment) party leadership, gutting the party, and making it their own, as it once was, back when it deserved the name G(rand) O(ld) P(arty), before the Corporatists hijacked it in the early 20th Century...

And, of course, the party Ruling Elites don't know whether to shit or go blind or wind their watches... they don't have a clue how to get out of the dog-house with their rank-and-file...

In the long run, a turn towards Populism is probably a good thing... it's actually quite unwise, to allow the Swells to get too comfortable in their roles...

This is, after all, supposed to be a government OF the People, BY the People, and FOR the People...

Consider the present Populist Rebellion to be a long-overdue Market Correction...

Republicans have been terrorizing and screwing over the Middle Class for the last 40 years. After all that time, it's only now the GOP base realizes they don't like wearing a butt plug? Only now? Talk about slow learners.

 

[Correll]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

 

[Correll]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

I share your awareness of the risk.

We seem to differ on whether The People perceive that things are bad enough (whether The People feel sufficiently disenfranchised and powerless) to warrant such a risk.

I think the Populist political revolt of 2015-2016 is becoming a juggernaut.

And, thinking in terms of Brokered Conventions and all that... it's also entirely possible that The Cure could prove to be an even worse course to chart.

Comes a time, when The People put their foot down, and say: "Enough".

They sometimes do that peaceably, and they sometimes do that through revolution.

If it is going to come, peaceably would probably be better.

But... yeah... the Populist Revolt is already upon us... and I think it's here to stay (through Election Season, anyway) and is not going to be denied.

When push comes to shove.. when it comes time to take a stand... I'll stand alongside The People, damned-near every time, and, to the Devil with the consequences.

Will we, collectively, come to regret that?

Possibly, but by no means certainly.

In any event, I suspect that we're about to learn the answers to such questions, in the not-too-distant future.

I agree completely that the very landscape under which we operate appears to be shifting, and there is no better example than the incredible & tectonic GOP shift from conservative values to nationalism/populism.

The thing is, I just go back to my two concerns with Trump as the vessel of this shift: First, he has convinced conservatives that the changes he'll be able to make will be conservative in nature, and I'm just not convinced of that. Second, the man's demeanor and judgement are not terribly difficult to question.

I certainly understand the populist uprising on both ends of the spectrum. It's Trump as the messenger that I don't see.
.

It's been tried with other messengers. THey have just been demonized by the PC MSM.

 

[Correll]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

I don't disagree with that, not for a minute.

It's what we do when we're upset, how we handle it, that matters.

If taking a stick of dynamite to the party is the current strategy, great. I just don't see how.
.

 

[tinydancer]

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

Then explain the historic wins in 2014 by the R's. I can't wait.

I have no question that Republicans can score historic wins in non Presidential elections
2016 is not one of those years

One question....what have Republicans accomplished with their historic win?

Nothing. Because they betrayed their base. It's really that simple. and they still don't get it.

Look I listen big time to radio because I don't have television.

One guy out there on the mark was Billy Cunningham. He promised all his listeners and this guy is a big talker that John had promised him personally on certain issues that Boenher would not betray him. Well John did as we all know. did. Cunningham took him out. I follow the back pages. Billy forced him to resign.

Billy isn't even golfing with him anymore. This blood shit going down is for real.

Conservatives live in their own world where they can call all the shots and not have to deal with the politics of Washington

Really? The betrayal of the the inside the beltway rinos is real. It is palpable.

And they are now facing the wrath of joe and mary six pack on BOTH sides of the aisle.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Your characterizations and assumptions about the GOP candidates and the party overall are way off. It would take too long to address all the erroneous assumptions and distortions in your OP.

 

[tinydancer]

...I think that you would have had a better chance if you had just dug up Hughie Long, and run him form president.

Hughie never had the nationwide name-face recognition that either Trump or Sanders do.

I used to go to a bay up in the Long's home town so I know the Long's history quite well. What a family!




They’ve got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set of Democratic waiters on the other side, but no matter which set of waiters brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall Street kitchen.”

— Huey Long

 

[Correll]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

I don't disagree with that, not for a minute.

It's what we do when we're upset, how we handle it, that matters.

If taking a stick of dynamite to the party is the current strategy, great. I just don't see how.
.

Trump's policies are not that radical; enforce the immigration laws, renegotiate bad trade deals, build a wall.

The only really radical thing he has done is challenge the 4th Estate, ie the Media.

He is not a "stick of dynamite".

 

[Mac1958]

Your characterizations and assumptions about the GOP candidates and the party overall are way off. It would take too long to address all the erroneous assumptions and distortions in your OP.

Well, hell, give it a shot.

Actually, many responses here have been very helpful.
.

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

I don't disagree with that, not for a minute.

It's what we do when we're upset, how we handle it, that matters.

If taking a stick of dynamite to the party is the current strategy, great. I just don't see how.
.

Trump's policies are not that radical; enforce the immigration laws, renegotiate bad trade deals, build a wall.

The only really radical thing he has done is challenge the 4th Estate, ie the Media.

He is not a "stick of dynamite".

Well, I stole the "dynamite" thing from another conservative poster on this thread.

We'll see, I reckon. I understand the frustration, but oy, the messenger.

If he were to win, I'd be very surprised if he were to actually move the country Right. There's just no way of knowing with this guy.
.

 

[Correll]

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

I don't disagree with that, not for a minute.

It's what we do when we're upset, how we handle it, that matters.

If taking a stick of dynamite to the party is the current strategy, great. I just don't see how.
.

Trump's policies are not that radical; enforce the immigration laws, renegotiate bad trade deals, build a wall.

The only really radical thing he has done is challenge the 4th Estate, ie the Media.

He is not a "stick of dynamite".

Well, I stole the "dynamite" thing from another conservative poster on this thread.

We'll see, I reckon. I understand the frustration, but oy, the messenger.

If he were to win, I'd be very surprised if he were to actually move the country Right. There's just no way of knowing with this guy.
.

NOt sure what you mean.

If he implements his stated policies, IMO, that will be in the best interests of this nation.

A nation that isn't afraid to enforce it's immigration laws would be further to the Right than the mess we have now.

 

[rdean]

Your characterizations and assumptions about the GOP candidates and the party overall are way off. It would take too long to address all the erroneous assumptions and distortions in your OP.

I don't know who you are talking to, but I wish you would give it a try.

 

[Mac1958]

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

I don't disagree with that, not for a minute.

It's what we do when we're upset, how we handle it, that matters.

If taking a stick of dynamite to the party is the current strategy, great. I just don't see how.
.

Trump's policies are not that radical; enforce the immigration laws, renegotiate bad trade deals, build a wall.

The only really radical thing he has done is challenge the 4th Estate, ie the Media.

He is not a "stick of dynamite".

Well, I stole the "dynamite" thing from another conservative poster on this thread.

We'll see, I reckon. I understand the frustration, but oy, the messenger.

If he were to win, I'd be very surprised if he were to actually move the country Right. There's just no way of knowing with this guy.
.

NOt sure what you mean.

If he implements his stated policies, IMO, that will be in the best interests of this nation.

A nation that isn't afraid to enforce it's immigration laws would be further to the Right than the mess we have now.

Well, if you believe that (a) he is serious in his statements of the issues, (b) he will leverage his force of personality and negotiating skills to manifest consistently conservative law and vision, and (c) he has the temperament for the most nuanced and complicated job in the world, then you'll be right.
.

 

[Dot Com]

Its ironic that the Right is FINALLY AWAKENING from the rw media- induced slumber. The Left did years ago w #OWS. Wonder what took the Right so long?

This satire is from the #OWS era:

 

[Correll]

Or you know, there is always the crazy idea that those who are upset have valid issues to be upset ABOUT.

You might want to give that possibility a little thought.

I don't disagree with that, not for a minute.

It's what we do when we're upset, how we handle it, that matters.

If taking a stick of dynamite to the party is the current strategy, great. I just don't see how.
.

Trump's policies are not that radical; enforce the immigration laws, renegotiate bad trade deals, build a wall.

The only really radical thing he has done is challenge the 4th Estate, ie the Media.

He is not a "stick of dynamite".

Well, I stole the "dynamite" thing from another conservative poster on this thread.

We'll see, I reckon. I understand the frustration, but oy, the messenger.

If he were to win, I'd be very surprised if he were to actually move the country Right. There's just no way of knowing with this guy.
.

NOt sure what you mean.

If he implements his stated policies, IMO, that will be in the best interests of this nation.

A nation that isn't afraid to enforce it's immigration laws would be further to the Right than the mess we have now.

Well, if you believe that (a) he is serious in his statements of the issues, (b) he will leverage his force of personality and negotiating skills to manifest consistently conservative law and vision, and (c) he has the temperament for the most nuanced and complicated job in the world, then you'll be right.
.

It is not about conservatism. It is about the interests of this country.

Conservative Ideology was/is a means to an end.

The end has always been the best interests of this country.

If there is a conflict between conservative ideology and the interests of this country, then I choose the interests of this country.


And the job of President is as "nuanced" as the President thinks it's needs to be.

FDR wasn't very "nuanced".

But other than that.

Yes. I do believe that.

 

[Dot Com]

will they split the conservative vote?

 

[I amso IR]

Your characterizations and assumptions about the GOP candidates and the party overall are way off. It would take too long to address all the erroneous assumptions and distortions in your OP.

Mike, not only is your response ducking the issue, it is party line and frankly insulting.. The voters "do not understand" is your mantra. Well this voter understands the promises made are not the promises kept. Todays President is the proof in the pudding and he is only the latest. The voters have been promised honest and efficient government and have ended up with a broken government. You and your champions cannot even remain true to the Constitution. That is what the American right wants, that you honor the document which founded this nation. However you cannot do that as it is to restrictive. How about a Constitutional Convention? However you cannot allow that as the States might support drastic cuts to bring the Nation back within the confines of the Document which allow States Rights. You allow judges to make law while the Congress refuses legislate. And those folks in those positions are your lackeys. Your response disgusts me more than the freebie lovers and illegal immigrants. My family has been here since the 1700's which makes me a native born American no matter what term the government may use as they were here before this nation existed. My family fought for this nation during The Revolution as well as the Civil War. Don't give me that "don't understand horse shit! I understand this much, that government is the problem, not her citizens. Screw you and the horse you rode in on.

 

[Kondor3]

...Republicans have been terrorizing and screwing over the Middle Class for the last 40 years. After all that time, it's only now the GOP base realizes they don't like wearing a butt plug? Only now? Talk about slow learners.

That's OK.

The Democratic Party has been screwing-over Blacks and Hispanics and getting those sheep to vote for them for 60 years, and seeing only a few bones tossed to them.

Not counting the self-absorbed LibProg Whites who want to sit around the campfire and sing Kumbya-My-Lord and want to buy the world a Coke and keep it company, for whom the Democrats do very little, other than to admit them to the same welfare and entitlement programming that their minority ballot-box buddies routinely and stereotypically exploit.

By your gauge - not realizing the terrible dependencies that they're being lured into accepting as the norm - Democrats are even slower learners, and party-boss butt-buddies.

So, it's a wash.

Isn't this (partisan rock-throwing) fun?

Next contestant, please...