Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

[Kondor3]

...Retarded voters are bad.

Define "retarded voter" in this context.

 

[LoneLaugher]

...No. They are not similar. Not in any way.

And there is where I believe you to be profoundly wrong.

It is true, that they are not similar in their positions on various issues.

But it is also true that they both rely upon Popular Rebellion against their respective Established Party Leadership, in order to grow and sustain their support bases.

We are looking at a shockingly sudden and profound Populist movement on BOTH sides of the aisle; with The People themselves attempting to shove their leadership aside.

THERE is the similarity.

Not in the party platform nor the mechanics by which they might accomplish an agenda, but in the Rebellious nature of their initial and most loyal support base.

That similarity is as obvious as obvious can be.

Holy shit. Bernie is a serious candidate. Trump is not. The idea that they are similar because both are populists is weak. Bernie is actually a populist. Trump is a pandering clown.

Let's list ALL the ways they are similar. Both men. Both old. Both white. Both from New York. That's it.

 

[LeftofLeft]

People looked to the GOP, to push back 11,000,000 Illegal Aliens... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the wars that it started... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs overseas... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to turn around the economy it wrecked... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to make trickle-down economics work... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to rescue the Middle Class... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the Obama Social Reengineering juggernaut... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to provide equitable tax reform for all... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to streamline the government... and it failed to do so.

People have come to the conclusion that Republican leadership is almost as full of shit as Democratic leadership.

But, there's really no point in trying to launch a Third Party, the way things are now.

So.. the Pubs find themselves with a Populist Rebellion on their hands...

People are shoving aside the existing (Establishment) party leadership, gutting the party, and making it their own, as it once was, back when it deserved the name G(rand) O(ld) P(arty), before the Corporatists hijacked it in the early 20th Century...

And, of course, the party Ruling Elites don't know whether to shit or go blind or wind their watches... they don't have a clue how to get out of the dog-house with their rank-and-file...

In the long run, a turn towards Populism is probably a good thing... it's actually quite unwise, to allow the Swells to get too comfortable in their roles...

This is, after all, supposed to be a government OF the People, BY the People, and FOR the People...

Consider the present Populist Rebellion to be a long-overdue Market Correction...

People should look to Conservatives, not GOP

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Obama happened.

This is just the pendulum swinging back and going just as far from center in the other direction.

lol

Typical rightwing idiocy – blame the president because republicans have become bizarre and dysfunctional.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The majority of the people are FED UP with the government and the media.

It that's the case, why do the incumbents in congress keep getting re-elected? Something like 94%.

You know, with everybody being pissed off at them.

You must not be paying attention...the backlash is from the last midterms primarily,although the last thirty years should have been a warning.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Conservative Ideology AND the Republican Party are means to an end, the interests of the Nation.

That some Conservative Ideology seems to have failed to deliver on that, ie supposedly Free Trade, and the Establishment Republicans have failed to deliver on that, you are seeing a Populist revolt of the Republican voters.

The "nihilism" you think you see is actually desperation, because we don't know if the interests of the country can be served at this late date.

The question is not can the inter-party schism be healed, the question is can we turn this country around from it's path of decline.

Populism is dangerous.

It offers simple solutions to complex problems, and relies on demagoguery and scapegoating of others. It speaks to people in a very dark place.

Some of the worst governments anywhere have been populist or had roots in populism - Chavez, Peron, Mugabe, Hitler to name a few.

Crap, I wish I had said that.

That's exactly what concerns me about this current environment, and it in part explains the popularity of people like Palin & Trump, who both rely on platitudes and "plain talk".

Life is complicated, and I'm just not seeing nuanced thought processes here.
.

While life may be complicated certain decisions are not.
I've watched our government blow simple decisions for the last thirty years when it comes to the health of my country and I for one am sick of it.
When the craziest MF'er running sounds like a viable solution things are beyond F'd up!!!

That should be a wake up call to the establishment yet they continue on with their bullshit like nothing unusual is going on,like the public anger is a mirage,if that doesnt tell you there are outside influences to our political system nothing will.

 

[Kondor3]

...No. They are not similar. Not in any way.

And there is where I believe you to be profoundly wrong.

It is true, that they are not similar in their positions on various issues.

But it is also true that they both rely upon Popular Rebellion against their respective Established Party Leadership, in order to grow and sustain their support bases.

We are looking at a shockingly sudden and profound Populist movement on BOTH sides of the aisle; with The People themselves attempting to shove their leadership aside.

THERE is the similarity.

Not in the party platform nor the mechanics by which they might accomplish an agenda, but in the Rebellious nature of their initial and most loyal support base.

That similarity is as obvious as obvious can be.

Holy shit. Bernie is a serious candidate. Trump is not. The idea that they are similar because both are populists is weak. Bernie is actually a populist. Trump is a pandering clown.

Let's list ALL the ways they are similar. Both men. Both old. Both white. Both from New York. That's it.

Both riding a wave of Populism on their respective sides of the aisle.

Doesn't matter whether you consider one a serious candidate and one not...

Doesn't matter whether one is TRULY a populist and one is not...

They're both riding the Populist wave right now... outsiders, doing well, eh?

That, in itself, is a substantive and material similarity.

I'm content to bask in that level of assertive truth.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What is clear is that the libtards lie repeatedly. In the face of that, let's just go ahead and have a civil war, because debating these lying sons of whores is a waste of time.

More idiocy from the right.

One of your fellow rightwing nitwits on this very forum is attempting to propagate the ridiculous lie that the president is 'responsible' for the Zika virus entering the United States.

The capacity of conservatives to lie is infinite and unmatched by anyone.

 

[Grassroots conservative]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

 

[Muhammed]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Perhaps it is you that has snapped.

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Perhaps it is you that has snapped.

Well, that could definitely be the case.

Is there something in that post with which you disagree?
.

 

[Kondor3]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

 

[Mac1958]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

 

[Freewill]

America 2016: We’re mad as hell and not going to take it anymore

MARSHALLTOWN, IOWA ​

Craig Ziemke has voted for Democrats all his life, including twice for President Barack Obama. Not this year.

“The whole country is going to hell,” the 66-year-old retired factory worker said, standing against the bleachers at a high school gymnasium while waiting for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump to arrive. Ziemke’s fury is deep: Roads and bridges in the U.S. are falling apart, jobs are scarce and the U.S. border is wide open, he says.

“We’re letting all these people into the country. No one even knows who the hell they are,” he said. “We don’t need any more Arabs. The United States, anymore, is just a dumping ground for everyone.”

Ziemke plans to caucus for a Republican on Monday – and likely for Trump, “the only one with brains,” he said.

America 2016: We’re mad as hell and not going to take it anymore

 

[rightwinger]

When Boehner and McConnell caved on Cut, Cap, and Balance, thats when I began losing faith in the Republican Party. They weren't at all fighting for their constituents. When the going got tough, they just seemingly shrugged their shoulders and moved on. Beyond weak.

What should they have done?

They should have shut down the damn government until some meaningful spending cuts were put in place.

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

 

[CremeBrulee]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

 

[tinydancer]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

 

[tinydancer]

When Boehner and McConnell caved on Cut, Cap, and Balance, thats when I began losing faith in the Republican Party. They weren't at all fighting for their constituents. When the going got tough, they just seemingly shrugged their shoulders and moved on. Beyond weak.

What should they have done?

They should have shut down the damn government until some meaningful spending cuts were put in place.

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

Then explain the historic wins in 2014 by the R's. I can't wait.

 

[Freewill]

When Boehner and McConnell caved on Cut, Cap, and Balance, thats when I began losing faith in the Republican Party. They weren't at all fighting for their constituents. When the going got tough, they just seemingly shrugged their shoulders and moved on. Beyond weak.

What should they have done?

They should have shut down the damn government until some meaningful spending cuts were put in place.

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

That is why your side needs to be taken very seriously. Much like getting AIDS needs to be taken seriously.

IF the government did nothing over the last 7 years we would be infinitely better off, in my opinion. But the nation followed the road to hell that Obama paved and here we are, expecting to do the same things over and over resulting in something other then the same outcome.

 

[Freewill]

What should they have done?

They should have shut down the damn government until some meaningful spending cuts were put in place.

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

Then explain the historic wins in 2014 by the R's. I can't wait.

Let me give the left wing answer. The majority of the democrat voters are too lazy or too stupid to show up for mid-term elections. What I have a hard time explaining is the 2008 election and especially the 2012 election, it is like we didn't learn a thing in 4 years. Now we are paying the price.