Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

[Kondor3]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

I share your awareness of the risk.

We seem to differ on whether The People perceive that things are bad enough (whether The People feel sufficiently disenfranchised and powerless) to warrant such a risk.

I think the Populist political revolt of 2015-2016 is becoming a juggernaut.

And, thinking in terms of Brokered Conventions and all that... it's also entirely possible that The Cure could prove to be an even worse course to chart.

Comes a time, when The People put their foot down, and say: "Enough".

They sometimes do that peaceably, and they sometimes do that through revolution.

If it is going to come, peaceably would probably be better.

But... yeah... the Populist Revolt is already upon us... and I think it's here to stay (through Election Season, anyway) and is not going to be denied.

When push comes to shove.. when it comes time to take a stand... I'll stand alongside The People, damned-near every time, and, to the Devil with the consequences.

Will we, collectively, come to regret that?

Possibly, but by no means certainly.

In any event, I suspect that we're about to learn the answers to such questions, in the not-too-distant future.

 

[Correll]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Trump is no over reaction. He is probably too little too late.

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

I think there is a small but motivated vocal minority within the Republican Party that is giving its support to the latest candidate echoing their frustrations. An opportunist such as Donald Trump is all too willing to ride that frustration as far as it will take him. A recent influx and flurry of activity from large numbers of voters that are relatively new to politics and government are reshaping the GOP. Unfortunately, their ideas about how government and politics work is not reality. Their candidates generally espouse these same ideas until they assume office, learn otherwise and behave accordingly. Those politicians are then seen as betraying the ideology and labeled "Establishment" or RINOs. Mr. Trump recognizes and uses this discontent to his advantage. Should he get elected, it isn't likely any of his plans come to fruition, leading to an even more disgruntled minority. I would argue it doesn't particularly matter to him anyway. The goal of his supporters is change; for Donald Trump it is profit.

Yes. People from both parties and along the entire political spectrum care. Those that don't should, as a healthy Republican Party is required for our government and democracy to properly function.

"Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is.

I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Well, you recognize the "at any cost" aspect to this. There may be quite a bit on the way there.
.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

That's easy to answer. It's called the Evangelical movement, introduced and shoved down the GOP's throat by George W. Bush in 2000, creating a radical base of assholes who want everyone to be a Christian and lily-white.

He littered his administration with Evangelicals and then loaded the DOJ down with Liberty University graduates (a.k.a. Jerry Falwell College of Christian Sheep).

 

[Mac1958]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

I share your awareness of the risk.

We seem to differ on whether The People perceive that things are bad enough (whether The People feel sufficiently disenfranchised and powerless) to warrant such a risk.

I think the Populist political revolt of 2015-2016 is becoming a juggernaut.

And, thinking in terms of Brokered Conventions and all that... it's also entirely possible that The Cure could prove to be an even worse course to chart.

Comes a time, when The People put their foot down, and say: "Enough".

They sometimes do that peaceably, and they sometimes do that through revolution.

If it is going to come, peaceably would probably be better.

But... yeah... the Populist Revolt is already upon us... and I think it's here to stay (through Election Season, anyway) and is not going to be denied.

When push comes to shove.. when it comes time to take a stand... I'll stand alongside The People, damned-near every time, and, to the Devil with the consequences.

Will we, collectively, come to regret that?

Possibly, but by no means certainly.

In any event, I suspect that we're about to learn the answers to such questions, in the not-too-distant future.

I agree completely that the very landscape under which we operate appears to be shifting, and there is no better example than the incredible & tectonic GOP shift from conservative values to nationalism/populism.

The thing is, I just go back to my two concerns with Trump as the vessel of this shift: First, he has convinced conservatives that the changes he'll be able to make will be conservative in nature, and I'm just not convinced of that. Second, the man's demeanor and judgement are not terribly difficult to question.

I certainly understand the populist uprising on both ends of the spectrum. It's Trump as the messenger that I don't see.
.

 

[rightwinger]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

That's easy to answer. It's called the Evangelical movement, introduced and shoved down the GOP's throat by George W. Bush in 2000, creating a radical base of assholes who want everyone to be a Christian and lily-white.

He littered his administration with Evangelicals and then loaded the DOJ down with Liberty University graduates (a.k.a. Jerry Falwell College of Christian Sheep).

I disagree.

In fact, the Trump segment of the party is moving away from the old list of "conservative values" towards nationalism/populism. That's where the energy is now.
.

 

[rightwinger]

What should they have done?

They should have shut down the damn government until some meaningful spending cuts were put in place.

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

Then explain the historic wins in 2014 by the R's. I can't wait.

I have no question that Republicans can score historic wins in non Presidential elections
2016 is not one of those years

One question....what have Republicans accomplished with their historic win?

 

[tinydancer]

They should have shut down the damn government until some meaningful spending cuts were put in place.

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

Then explain the historic wins in 2014 by the R's. I can't wait.

I have no question that Republicans can score historic wins in non Presidential elections
2016 is not one of those years

One question....what have Republicans accomplished with their historic win?

Nothing. Because they betrayed their base. It's really that simple. and they still don't get it.

Look I listen big time to radio because I don't have television.

One guy out there on the mark was Billy Cunningham. He promised all his listeners and this guy is a big talker that John had promised him personally on certain issues that Boenher would not betray him. Well John did as we all know. did. Cunningham took him out. I follow the back pages. Billy forced him to resign.

Billy isn't even golfing with him anymore. This blood shit going down is for real.

 

[CremeBrulee]

It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable.

I see it as some conservative media coupled with technology. I watch Fox News and listen to the Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity shows while in the car, but they are not my sole sources for news and analysis. We live in a time when a person can almost completely block out any information that conflicts with their own ideologies.

 

[Kondor3]

..."Opportunist". Bingo. I think that's exactly what he is...

Agreed. As obvious as obvious can be.

...I also completely agree that those who are so consumed with this "Establishment/RINO" thing do not nearly represent the majority of the party. It's not terribly difficult to recognize the source of the anguish that is animating so many - conservative media. It has created and exacerbated an echo chamber that is simply undeniable...

Repeatedly and chronically ignoring and even acting against the Will and Best Interests of their Base, and the Nation and its People at large, also has a wee bit to do with it.

...Trump sees where the energy in the party is and he has attached himself to it. If the energy were with the establishment, he would be tailoring his message to them.
.

Agreed. Brilliant analysis. Spot on.

But, for better or worse, he is now carrying the Populist Banner on the Right, just as Bernie Sanders is carrying the equally remarkable Populist banner on the Left.

He got the job as Flag Bearer when he voiced intentions to go all Draconian and to cut the Gordian Knot re: Illegal Aliens, Muslim immigration, tariffs to level the Labor playing field vis a vis China, India, etc., and a half-dozen other focal points that hit The Public with all the shock of drops of ice-water hitting one's sunburned back after a day of beach-combing.

Those focal points - voiced bravely and without guile or hesitation - were like giving a man dying of thirst (The People) a life-saving glass of water after crossing a desert.

The dying man drinks the water, thanks the giver, and rejoins the Land of the Living.

The Establishment (political party ruling) Elites on BOTH sides of the aisle have served-up far too much poisoned Kool-Aid in recent decades, and The People have wisened-up, and are no longer sheepishly showing-up in droves to drink it.

So along comes Mister Hard-Case, who promises Water rather than poisoned Kool-AId, and he suddenly acquires unprecedented traction of near-epic proportions.

Go figure, right?

 

[rightwinger]

The stupid response I expected

You should always expect stupid responses. Easier for you to understand.

That is why you guys are not taken seriously.
Your shut down government solutions do nothing to help your cause. Extortion is not a solution

Then explain the historic wins in 2014 by the R's. I can't wait.

I have no question that Republicans can score historic wins in non Presidential elections
2016 is not one of those years

One question....what have Republicans accomplished with their historic win?

Nothing. Because they betrayed their base. It's really that simple. and they still don't get it.

Look I listen big time to radio because I don't have television.

One guy out there on the mark was Billy Cunningham. He promised all his listeners and this guy is a big talker that John had promised him personally on certain issues that Boenher would not betray him. Well John did as we all know. did. Cunningham took him out. I follow the back pages. Billy forced him to resign.

Billy isn't even golfing with him anymore. This blood shit going down is for real.

Conservatives live in their own world where they can call all the shots and not have to deal with the politics of Washington

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

Bear in mind that much of this idiocy exhibited by the GOP manifests in the context of blind partisanism, republicans angry over having lost the last two presidential elections, a party that perceives the WH as its 'birthright.'

Republicans and conservatives know that the real power resides in the Executive, at liberty to act without compromise or consensus, unlike Congress.

This also illustrates the hypocrisy of republicans, who attack Obama for being a 'tyrant' who 'goes around Congress' when in fact they seek to do the same thing once in power.

 

[CowboyTed]

You can only run as the Anti Democrat party for so long....

 

[I amso IR]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS.

The plutocrats have had their way with the rest of us for years. If you are among the very very rich, you have had it GREAT.

The unwashed masses have finally figured that out.

Trump is offering a authoritarian populist figure as an alternative to the plutocrats that run the country.

The plutocrats are not happy.

Bernie is offering the same idea, just in a different way.

Very interesting.

One amazing thing I'm hearing (I don't have data on this) is that there is more than a little crossover support between Trump & Sanders.

Incredible.
.

I, for one, am a part of that thinking. I want a person in the White House who is vested in the American Dream of Liberty and Justice for all. Main stream Republican and Democrat leaders alike have abandoned that ideal. A black being elected has nothing to do with the current unrest. It has simply happened that a black man, who was elected, has failed to deliver on that ideal. If I were to cast blame, I personally would charge the senior Bush and his pushing the GOP to embrace the New World Order at the expense of all Americans. As a now registered Independent voter my vote will go to either Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. If that makes me a "Populist" then so be it. I am sick of business as usual and the deceit it fosters. Liberals and Conservative alike make me ill. And yes, fortress America sounds better with each passing moment. Two thirds of nations on this globe contribute very little internally to cause the globe to prosper. They have had more assistance over the past fifty years than they will admit and still fail. What have the open border trade agreements done other than hurt Americans. No thank you to them on that issue. Nuff said.

 

[I amso IR]

And to hell with the feminist "war on women" as they own 100% of the pussy and 50% of the money and are diligently working for the other 50%. Crude but so true! But then at my age, they can have that 100%, no problem, as I now know the true value of that over rated item.

 

[Vandalshandle]

It is the GOP leadership, which is now, actually, the lack of such leadership. The GOP has been pandering to radical fringe demographics since the days of the Moral Majority. At first, all they wanted was enough of them to put them over the top in the elections. As time went by, they found that the radical Right was so easy to harvest that they focused entirely on that. What they have forgotten is that they have left all the moderates behind, and the radicals had no chance in hell of winning a presidential election. The effective leadership has always been the moderates, and they are flat out gone from the GOP. I saw it coming when Baby Bush was elected. I had been voting GOP since Gerald Ford, but never again.

 

[Vandalshandle]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

I share your awareness of the risk.

We seem to differ on whether The People perceive that things are bad enough (whether The People feel sufficiently disenfranchised and powerless) to warrant such a risk.

I think the Populist political revolt of 2015-2016 is becoming a juggernaut.

And, thinking in terms of Brokered Conventions and all that... it's also entirely possible that The Cure could prove to be an even worse course to chart.

Comes a time, when The People put their foot down, and say: "Enough".

They sometimes do that peaceably, and they sometimes do that through revolution.

If it is going to come, peaceably would probably be better.

But... yeah... the Populist Revolt is already upon us... and I think it's here to stay (through Election Season, anyway) and is not going to be denied.

When push comes to shove.. when it comes time to take a stand... I'll stand alongside The People, damned-near every time, and, to the Devil with the consequences.

Will we, collectively, come to regret that?

Possibly, but by no means certainly.

In any event, I suspect that we're about to learn the answers to such questions, in the not-too-distant future.

I think that you would have had a better chance if you had just dug up Hughie Long, and run him form president.

 

[Kondor3]

...I think that you would have had a better chance if you had just dug up Hughie Long, and run him form president.

Hughie never had the nationwide name-face recognition that either Trump or Sanders do.