Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

[Kondor3]

So, our answer to conservatives who haven't lived up to their promises is to nominate a demonstrably UNCONSERVATIVE man with dictatorial tendencies?

More like our answer to such is to scare the shit out of party elites, remind them that the party exists for the benefit of the People, and bypass them or shove them aside, as a long-overdue and necessary lesson in accountability and accommodation of the wishes and best interests of their rank and file.

"That's alright... these things gotta happen every fifty years or so... hundred years... helps to get rid of the bad blood..." (paraphrase, Pete Clemenza character, The Godfather)

Every once in a blue moon, The People rise up, and supply the metaphorical dynamite, to clear a metaphorical logjam, as we appear to be seeing today.

I can understand frustration with politicians and our political processes, believe me.

But taking dynamite to it has its dangers, too.

This guy could be the biggest case of "be careful what you wish for" ever.

That's a pretty big risk to take. Frustration is one thing, overreacting to frustration is another.
.

I share your awareness of the risk.

We seem to differ on whether The People perceive that things are bad enough (whether The People feel sufficiently disenfranchised and powerless) to warrant such a risk.

I think the Populist political revolt of 2015-2016 is becoming a juggernaut.

And, thinking in terms of Brokered Conventions and all that... it's also entirely possible that The Cure could prove to be an even worse course to chart.

Comes a time, when The People put their foot down, and say: "Enough".

They sometimes do that peaceably, and they sometimes do that through revolution.

If it is going to come, peaceably would probably be better.

But... yeah... the Populist Revolt is already upon us... and I think it's here to stay (through Election Season, anyway) and is not going to be denied.

When push comes to shove.. when it comes time to take a stand... I'll stand alongside The People, damned-near every time, and, to the Devil with the consequences.

Will we, collectively, come to regret that?

Possibly, but by no means certainly.

In any event, I suspect that we're about to learn the answers to such questions, in the not-too-distant future.

I agree completely that the very landscape under which we operate appears to be shifting, and there is no better example than the incredible & tectonic GOP shift from conservative values to nationalism/populism.

The thing is, I just go back to my two concerns with Trump as the vessel of this shift: First, he has convinced conservatives that the changes he'll be able to make will be conservative in nature, and I'm just not convinced of that. Second, the man's demeanor and judgement are not terribly difficult to question.

I certainly understand the populist uprising on both ends of the spectrum. It's Trump as the messenger that I don't see.
.

It's been tried with other messengers. THey have just been demonized by the PC MSM.

True.

This one is routinely demonized as well.

The trouble for the MSM is that THIS one eats them up and spits them outand really doesn't need to kowtow to them.

That, by itself, is atypical, and refreshing.

 

[oreo]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

YES--In 2012 Republicans were EXTREME--in 2016 Republicans have gone BAT SHIT CRAZY

2012
Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing
The GOP's woman problem goes beyond Trump
Gender Gap in 2012 Vote Is Largest in Gallup's History
How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNNPolitics.com

2016
GOP Win Will Need More Than 40 Percent Of Latino 2016 Vote, Says Study
Poll: 75% of Latinos Have Negative View of Donald Trump
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

So this:

Produces this

Because of these people

In their efforts to get a non-Establishment candidate have rino'd themselves right into a Hillary Clinton Presidency, a loss of the Senate and a ton of seats in the house.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

 

[ScienceRocks]

The Hover/Grover Cleveland wing of the party finally caught back up after the cluster fuck of the depression and took over the far right.

Both of these men had huge fucking depressions caused by their deregulations. But hell, let's try it again!

 

[Yousaidwhat]

It was hijacked by the Nazi element within it. Today's Republican Party really does resemble the Nazi Party. All the hate and disdain for the least fortunate among us. And the lunatic obsession with starting more wars.

It all started when the Neocons seized control. They're very dangerous people with a Nazi mentality. They want our poor to just die, or even have them locked away in cages. They want them disappeared. And they desperately want to start WWIII. I can't call myself a Republican at this point.

Bullshit!

 

[Freewill]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

YES--In 2012 Republicans were EXTREME--in 2016 Republicans have gone BAT SHIT CRAZY

2012
Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing
The GOP's woman problem goes beyond Trump
Gender Gap in 2012 Vote Is Largest in Gallup's History
How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNNPolitics.com

2016
GOP Win Will Need More Than 40 Percent Of Latino 2016 Vote, Says Study
Poll: 75% of Latinos Have Negative View of Donald Trump
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

So this:

Produces this

Because of these people

In their efforts to get a non-Establishment candidate have rino'd themselves right into a Hillary Clinton Presidency, a loss of the Senate and a ton of seats in the house.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

This whole meme of Republicans not winning is predicated on one thing, Obama. Other then him winning two terms, as did Bush, the democrats have pretty much lost everything. State houses, Governorship, and Congress. All under democrat rule not long ago but not now. So where exactly are Republicans losing?

 

[miketx]

More idiocy from the right.

One of your fellow rightwing nitwits on this very forum is attempting to propagate the ridiculous lie that the president is 'responsible' for the Zika virus entering the United States.

The capacity of conservatives to lie is infinite and unmatched by anyone.

Since your dick smoking president refuses to stop illegal immigration, i'd say the blames lies on his sorry ass as well as every libtard son of a bitch in this country.

 

[Correll]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

YES--In 2012 Republicans were EXTREME--in 2016 Republicans have gone BAT SHIT CRAZY

2012
Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing
The GOP's woman problem goes beyond Trump
Gender Gap in 2012 Vote Is Largest in Gallup's History
How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNNPolitics.com

2016
GOP Win Will Need More Than 40 Percent Of Latino 2016 Vote, Says Study
Poll: 75% of Latinos Have Negative View of Donald Trump
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

So this:

Produces this

Because of these people

In their efforts to get a non-Establishment candidate have rino'd themselves right into a Hillary Clinton Presidency, a loss of the Senate and a ton of seats in the house.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Wanting to enforce our democratically enacted immigration laws and NOT have record trade deficits every year is hardly "BAT SHIT CRAZY".

Ironically, pretending it is, is Bat shit crazy.

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

YES--In 2012 Republicans were EXTREME--in 2016 Republicans have gone BAT SHIT CRAZY

2012
Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing
The GOP's woman problem goes beyond Trump
Gender Gap in 2012 Vote Is Largest in Gallup's History
How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNNPolitics.com

2016
GOP Win Will Need More Than 40 Percent Of Latino 2016 Vote, Says Study
Poll: 75% of Latinos Have Negative View of Donald Trump
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

So this:

Produces this

Because of these people

In their efforts to get a non-Establishment candidate have rino'd themselves right into a Hillary Clinton Presidency, a loss of the Senate and a ton of seats in the house.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Wanting to enforce our democratically enacted immigration laws and NOT have record trade deficits every year is hardly "BAT SHIT CRAZY".

Ironically, pretending it is, is Bat shit crazy.

It's not the specific positions on issues that is troubling. We all have positions, and, fortunately for us, we're able to vote for people who will represent us to advocate for those positions. If you and those who oppose you are confident you can win at the ballot box with those positions, great, let's vote and see what happens.

The issue with Trump is, to use one of zillion possible words, is his character. Endless amazingly shallow platitudes ("it's gonna be great', "you're gonna love it", "we're gonna have so many wins", good gawd, on and on and on), a never-ending string of juvenile personal insults, a personal history that simply doesn't match his current rhetoric, behaviors that make a reasonable person wonder what he would do under pressure, and an overall immaturity and lack of grace is a pretty unattractive package for a lot of people in normal situations, let alone someone who could become President of the United States and leader of the free world.

The individual issues can be debated, let's do it. But this guy is a horrible messenger -- this is a guy who makes Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot look like dignified statesmen -- and his various behaviors make having a reasonable debate almost impossible.
.

 

[miketx]

fortunately for us, we're able to vote for people who will represent us

Zakly who is representing us? I don't want anymore illegals in the country. I don't want our oilfields shut down. I don't want to give Iran nukes. Who in the hell represents us?

 

[rightwinger]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

Maybe you are "two" fucking stupid to know the difference between to, too and two

 

[rdean]

The base has been driven insane by the unrelenting propaganda and constantly being terrorized by their leadership. It's perfectly clear.

 

[rightwinger]

What has happened to the GOP is they have been making promises they know they can't keep

Repeal Obamacare
Pay off our debt
Prevent gays from marrying

Now the bill is due

 

[Correll]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

YES--In 2012 Republicans were EXTREME--in 2016 Republicans have gone BAT SHIT CRAZY

2012
Why Romney Lost And Republicans Keep Losing
The GOP's woman problem goes beyond Trump
Gender Gap in 2012 Vote Is Largest in Gallup's History
How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNNPolitics.com

2016
GOP Win Will Need More Than 40 Percent Of Latino 2016 Vote, Says Study
Poll: 75% of Latinos Have Negative View of Donald Trump
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

So this:

Produces this

Because of these people

In their efforts to get a non-Establishment candidate have rino'd themselves right into a Hillary Clinton Presidency, a loss of the Senate and a ton of seats in the house.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Wanting to enforce our democratically enacted immigration laws and NOT have record trade deficits every year is hardly "BAT SHIT CRAZY".

Ironically, pretending it is, is Bat shit crazy.

It's not the specific positions on issues that is troubling. We all have positions, and, fortunately for us, we're able to vote for people who will represent us to advocate for those positions. If you and those who oppose you are confident you can win at the ballot box with those positions, great, let's vote and see what happens.

The issue with Trump is, to use one of zillion possible words, is his character. Endless amazingly shallow platitudes ("it's gonna be great', "you're gonna love it", "we're gonna have so many wins", good gawd, on and on and on), a never-ending string of juvenile personal insults, a personal history that simply doesn't match his current rhetoric, behaviors that make a reasonable person wonder what he would do under pressure, and an overall immaturity and lack of grace is a pretty unattractive package for a lot of people in normal situations, let alone someone who could become President of the United States and leader of the free world.

The individual issues can be debated, let's do it. But this guy is a horrible messenger -- this is a guy who makes Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot look like dignified statesmen -- and his various behaviors make having a reasonable debate almost impossible.
.

As I have pointed out, we have had this message before.

The messengers were attacked and marginalized by the PC MSM.

Trump's methods seem to be what is required to smash though the lies of the Left to get the message to the People.

Patrick Buchanan didn't spew "shallow platitudes" or "a never-ending string of juvenile personal insults" and did have a personal history that did match his rhetoric and was very mature and dignified.

And he was chewed up and spit out by the Media and the Left.


You don't like Trump being "The Messenger"?

Then blame Political Correctness for shooting every messenger.

 

[Iceweasel]

The base has been driven insane by the unrelenting propaganda and constantly being terrorized by their leadership. It's perfectly clear.

True. The democrats need to get their shit together. Two old socialists is the best they can come up with for leading candidates?

 

[Correll]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

Maybe you are "two" fucking stupid to know the difference between to, too and two

Wow. Grammar nazi. That's a telling blow.



I want the Immigration laws enforced. I want better Trade Policy.

That is not "Fucking stupid".


Enforcing laws already on the books should not require to much from Congress.


Negotiating with other nations is the Presidents job. If he presents a good deal to Congress, it would put congressmen in a tough position to vote against it.

 

[Kondor3]

The base has been driven insane by the unrelenting propaganda and constantly being terrorized by their leadership. It's perfectly clear.

Yes... to the side that is once again about to lose power at the Executive level... well... I can see how self-delusion on this score helps ya'll to get through the day.

 

[rightwinger]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

Maybe you are "two" fucking stupid to know the difference between to, too and two

Wow. Grammar nazi. That's a telling blow.



I want the Immigration laws enforced. I want better Trade Policy.

That is not "Fucking stupid".


Enforcing laws already on the books should not require to much from Congress.


Negotiating with other nations is the Presidents job. If he presents a good deal to Congress, it would put congressmen in a tough position to vote against it.

Your problem is. .......

When you rant about others being "fucking stupid", you really should bone up on basic grammar

 

[Correll]

Its quite simple Mac. The GOP voters have had it with their inside the beltway representatives.

I look at life from different angles. Thats what made me a great promo rep. Individuals many years ago like John Boehner came to Washington thinking he could make a difference. But with a wife and child in the same political echelons as Pelosi and Reid, inside the beltway is far easier to play than man of the people.

When you truly understand "inside the beltway" you really get a grip on the why of the R's going down. The betrayal to the people who voted in 2014 was so aggregious sp first coffee that what you see here now is a belated but wonderous uprising against the establishment assholes.

Finally. At any cost.

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

Maybe you are "two" fucking stupid to know the difference between to, too and two

Wow. Grammar nazi. That's a telling blow.



I want the Immigration laws enforced. I want better Trade Policy.

That is not "Fucking stupid".


Enforcing laws already on the books should not require to much from Congress.


Negotiating with other nations is the Presidents job. If he presents a good deal to Congress, it would put congressmen in a tough position to vote against it.

Your problem is. .......

When you rant about others being "fucking stupid", you really should bone up on basic grammar

Your problem is you spend more time and energy looking for ways to dodge serious discussion than having serious discussions.

And you are the one that started the discussion of who was "fucking stupid".

 

[rightwinger]

Actually, GOP voters are just fucking stupid

They expect their representatives to be able to get their agenda passed without considering the desires of the Democrats or the President

Our government doesn't work like that

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

Maybe you are "two" fucking stupid to know the difference between to, too and two

Wow. Grammar nazi. That's a telling blow.



I want the Immigration laws enforced. I want better Trade Policy.

That is not "Fucking stupid".


Enforcing laws already on the books should not require to much from Congress.


Negotiating with other nations is the Presidents job. If he presents a good deal to Congress, it would put congressmen in a tough position to vote against it.

Your problem is. .......

When you rant about others being "fucking stupid", you really should bone up on basic grammar

Your problem is you spend more time and energy looking for ways to dodge serious discussion than having serious discussions.

And you are the one that started the discussion of who was "fucking stupid".

Republicans are "fucking stupid" and I can prove it.....

Donald Trump

 

[Correll]

Or maybe you are to fucking stupid to understand people who aren't fucking stupid like you?

Maybe you are "two" fucking stupid to know the difference between to, too and two

Wow. Grammar nazi. That's a telling blow.



I want the Immigration laws enforced. I want better Trade Policy.

That is not "Fucking stupid".


Enforcing laws already on the books should not require to much from Congress.


Negotiating with other nations is the Presidents job. If he presents a good deal to Congress, it would put congressmen in a tough position to vote against it.

Your problem is. .......

When you rant about others being "fucking stupid", you really should bone up on basic grammar

Your problem is you spend more time and energy looking for ways to dodge serious discussion than having serious discussions.

And you are the one that started the discussion of who was "fucking stupid".

Republicans are "fucking stupid" and I can prove it.....

Donald Trump

There is nothing "fucking stupid" about his policies or his handling of the media and his challenge to Political Correctness.