Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

[Uncensored2008]

You are making things up. It's really weird.

It's fun to watch a drone like you attack a good Obamunist like Kondor.

 

[bendog]

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

I disagree with you about the reasoning behind candidates promising things they cannot deliver on. I think it is absolutely calculated. Politicians lie. That's one of the main characteristics that seems to hold true throughout different times and societies. While certainly there may be some who do not realize the limited nature of the power they will wield should they somehow gain the office they are fighting for, even then I expect that they have staff and campaign managers feeding them intentional lies most of the time. It's about getting votes and gaining office.

Now, I think the lies used are crafted with the intent of only promising so much; obviously if you go too far and can't deliver, there won't be a re-election!

I oppose term limits as an ideal, but I think that they may be a necessary practical solution.
Publicly funded elections sound good but I can't see them happening any time soon.
A balanced budget amendment is too much of a catch-all phrase. I'd need specifics to have any idea if I could support it. However, I understand the impetus in desiring one and can agree that limiting government spending is an important goal.

I tend to be both cynical and apathetic about politics.

Y'know, I thought about the possibility that they're just lying, and I get that. Maybe they think they can just keep lying and get away with it.

Trying to figure out the thought processes of professional politicians is an exercise in self-flagellation, that's fer sure.
.

With the Teaparty guys, they aren't lying that our debt calculations are unsustainable. And the current stalemate in getting a budget deal illustrates it. The teaparty guys are the only ones facing that fact: as the two headed dog of McCain and Graham want more money for bombs, and the dems want more for social programs. The Freedom Caucus want's balance it by cutting soc sec and medicare ... and the vast maj of Americans aren't buying that.

I'm not saying they're lying about the issues as they and their supporters see them.

I'm saying it's possible that they know they're over-promising what they can deliver.
.
.

The House Freedom Caucus is lying if they're saying the US will balance it's budget in ten years without taking in new tax revenues by raising taxes, and only use budget cuts and new growth. There's no way in hell they'll ever get enough votes to do it, and even then, it is mathematically not possible .. unless we see growth that no one expects. Nevertheless, the two headed dog of McCain and Graham have given up even talking about balancing the budget, and Obama is simply no longer interested.

At one time, Boehner and Obama were in good faith trying to work something out, but the Freedom Caucus, as it existed at that time, would not take $1 in new taxes for $3 in "decreased new spending." Whether they still think that position is viable, or that they think they'll ever get the WH and majorities in both houses sufficient to do that, is the question.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ridiculous.

Liberals don't yearn to be told what to think. Thus....those who play that game don't win over listeners.

Is what you do actually considered "thinking?"

Isn't the process that you log on to KOS, ThinkProgress, or one of the other hate sites, and pheromones are released to stimulate receptors in the broccoli stalk that substitutes for a brain in you drones, which program you to spew the moronic idiocy you spew?

Kind of like a termite colony, but with less autonomous drones...

I guarantee that you've clicked on those sites more often than I have, dumb shit.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

I disagree with you about the reasoning behind candidates promising things they cannot deliver on. I think it is absolutely calculated. Politicians lie. That's one of the main characteristics that seems to hold true throughout different times and societies. While certainly there may be some who do not realize the limited nature of the power they will wield should they somehow gain the office they are fighting for, even then I expect that they have staff and campaign managers feeding them intentional lies most of the time. It's about getting votes and gaining office.

Now, I think the lies used are crafted with the intent of only promising so much; obviously if you go too far and can't deliver, there won't be a re-election!

I oppose term limits as an ideal, but I think that they may be a necessary practical solution.
Publicly funded elections sound good but I can't see them happening any time soon.
A balanced budget amendment is too much of a catch-all phrase. I'd need specifics to have any idea if I could support it. However, I understand the impetus in desiring one and can agree that limiting government spending is an important goal.

I tend to be both cynical and apathetic about politics.

By saying "promise the moon", I meant making promises they can't keep. That or making promises they know they can't keep.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

I disagree with you about the reasoning behind candidates promising things they cannot deliver on. I think it is absolutely calculated. Politicians lie. That's one of the main characteristics that seems to hold true throughout different times and societies. While certainly there may be some who do not realize the limited nature of the power they will wield should they somehow gain the office they are fighting for, even then I expect that they have staff and campaign managers feeding them intentional lies most of the time. It's about getting votes and gaining office.

Now, I think the lies used are crafted with the intent of only promising so much; obviously if you go too far and can't deliver, there won't be a re-election!

I oppose term limits as an ideal, but I think that they may be a necessary practical solution.
Publicly funded elections sound good but I can't see them happening any time soon.
A balanced budget amendment is too much of a catch-all phrase. I'd need specifics to have any idea if I could support it. However, I understand the impetus in desiring one and can agree that limiting government spending is an important goal.

I tend to be both cynical and apathetic about politics.

Y'know, I thought about the possibility that they're just lying, and I get that. Maybe they think they can just keep lying and get away with it.

Trying to figure out the thought processes of professional politicians is an exercise in self-flagellation, that's fer sure.
.

With the Teaparty guys, they aren't lying that our debt calculations are unsustainable. And the current stalemate in getting a budget deal illustrates it. The teaparty guys are the only ones facing that fact: as the two headed dog of McCain and Graham want more money for bombs, and the dems want more for social programs. The Freedom Caucus want's balance it by cutting soc sec and medicare ... and the vast maj of Americans aren't buying that.

I'm not saying they're lying about the issues as they and their supporters see them.

I'm saying it's possible that they know they're over-promising what they can deliver.
.
.

Well, in all fairness, they don't get much opportunity to speak in anything but soundbytes, and our nation's problems don't really fit into soundbytes. Almost forces them to oversimplify and overpromise.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

I disagree with you about the reasoning behind candidates promising things they cannot deliver on. I think it is absolutely calculated. Politicians lie. That's one of the main characteristics that seems to hold true throughout different times and societies. While certainly there may be some who do not realize the limited nature of the power they will wield should they somehow gain the office they are fighting for, even then I expect that they have staff and campaign managers feeding them intentional lies most of the time. It's about getting votes and gaining office.

Now, I think the lies used are crafted with the intent of only promising so much; obviously if you go too far and can't deliver, there won't be a re-election!

I oppose term limits as an ideal, but I think that they may be a necessary practical solution.
Publicly funded elections sound good but I can't see them happening any time soon.
A balanced budget amendment is too much of a catch-all phrase. I'd need specifics to have any idea if I could support it. However, I understand the impetus in desiring one and can agree that limiting government spending is an important goal.

I tend to be both cynical and apathetic about politics.

Y'know, I thought about the possibility that they're just lying, and I get that. Maybe they think they can just keep lying and get away with it.

Trying to figure out the thought processes of professional politicians is an exercise in self-flagellation, that's fer sure.
.

With the Teaparty guys, they aren't lying that our debt calculations are unsustainable. And the current stalemate in getting a budget deal illustrates it. The teaparty guys are the only ones facing that fact: as the two headed dog of McCain and Graham want more money for bombs, and the dems want more for social programs. The Freedom Caucus want's balance it by cutting soc sec and medicare ... and the vast maj of Americans aren't buying that.

I'm not saying they're lying about the issues as they and their supporters see them.

I'm saying it's possible that they know they're over-promising what they can deliver.
.
.

Well, in all fairness, they don't get much opportunity to speak in anything but soundbytes, and our nation's problems don't really fit into soundbytes. Almost forces them to oversimplify and overpromise.

That's not true. They get ample opportunity to speak in detail. But....they then open themselves up to the opposition taking their words out of context and running a million dollar ad campaign misrepresenting what they said. Too much of a headache for most.

Some politicians speak in complete sentences. Three of them are currently running for president.

 

[Kondor3]

...Why would anyone look to the GOP to do ANY of these things? they are the ones who caused most of them...

The truth actually lies in the middle, but we won't let Reality interfere with Partisanship... right?

...Besides the fact your populist rebellion has flamed out...

Damned shame, if true, but it's wwaaaaaaayy too early to make that call.

Just ask the Bernie Sanders folk...

...and you are probably going to take Rubio like your masters tell you to.

Given that I voted for Obumble... in both 2008 and 2012... I'll put your suggestion in the 'circular' file cabinet, where it belongs.

You voted for Obama? Twice?

You think people here will believe anything, don't you?

Doesn't make one goddamned bit of difference whether you believe me or not.

I know the truth of it.

I had no desire to see a third Bush term, and voted for the New Guy, rather than McSame.

Mister Forty-Seven Percent - the arrogant sonofabitch... turned me off, and I voted for the Devil I Knew, rather than MIttens.

True story.

Whether you believe me or not is of very little interest to me.

I merely use the opportunity here to serve-up the lightweight rationale that I used in each case.

You've been here since 2009. If I look, will I find posts from you supporting Obama's reelection in 2012?

Knock yourself out... I created the account in 2009 but have only been truly inactive online here since sometime in 2012... don't recall when.

And, I seriously doubt that you will find much of anything supporting Obumble's re-election, although I'm sure that you'll encounter a good half-dozen to a full-dozen earlier disclosures of how I voted in both 2008 and 2009.

Have a field day with it.

 

[Kondor3]

...You don't think people are denying that AM radio and Fox News have directed the GOP for the past two decades.

Not really, although the impact of AM Talk Radio is undeniable.

Jealous you didn't think of it first?

Bill Press... Stephanie Miller... Normal Goldman... all part of Progressive Talk Radio.

It's tough, playing catch-up, isn't it?

Especially when you're pitching a whiny little biotch LibProg agenda.

Ridiculous.

Liberals don't yearn to be told what to think. Thus....those who play that game don't win over listeners.

Yeah...

Sure...

That explains why all those millions of inner-city shit-hole ghetto folk continue to vote Democrat like good little sheep, election after election, decade after decade, as a side-show amusement, while they tear their cities and their neighborhoods apart and shoot each other in ever-increasing and record numbers...

Good little Sheeple...

And, of course, Progressive Talk Radio is playing catch-up, but gleaning an ever-increasing and large audience, as your side serves up its own Kool-AId....

Ridiculous?

Hardly.

You just can't bring yourself to admit that your side has finally figured-out that serving-up their own Talk Radio is a good way to go...

Typical, lumbering, unimaginative too-little-too-late Reactionary blather...

Copy-Cats...

You are making things up. It's really weird.

If you like... I don't enjoy Automatic Gainsay enough to bother...

 

[Kondor3]

...You don't think people are denying that AM radio and Fox News have directed the GOP for the past two decades.

Not really, although the impact of AM Talk Radio is undeniable.

Jealous you didn't think of it first?

Bill Press... Stephanie Miller... Normal Goldman... all part of Progressive Talk Radio.

It's tough, playing catch-up, isn't it?

Especially when you're pitching a whiny little biotch LibProg agenda.

What a koinkidink! This was published today. Read it please. It's by a guy who is an independent thinker. Enjoy.

Cruz and Trump, signs of conservative media's grip on GOP (Opinion) - CNN.com

With anchors like Anderson and Cuomo, I trust CNN's objectivity about as much as I trust Fox's or MSNBC's... which is to say, not at all.

 

[LoneLaugher]

...You don't think people are denying that AM radio and Fox News have directed the GOP for the past two decades.

Not really, although the impact of AM Talk Radio is undeniable.

Jealous you didn't think of it first?

Bill Press... Stephanie Miller... Normal Goldman... all part of Progressive Talk Radio.

It's tough, playing catch-up, isn't it?

Especially when you're pitching a whiny little biotch LibProg agenda.

What a koinkidink! This was published today. Read it please. It's by a guy who is an independent thinker. Enjoy.

Cruz and Trump, signs of conservative media's grip on GOP (Opinion) - CNN.com

With anchors like Anderson and Cuomo, I trust CNN's objectivity about as much as I trust Fox's or MSNBC's... which is to say, not at all.

Whatever. You've done great here. Avoided facts like the plague.

 

[Kondor3]

...Whatever. You've done great here. Avoided facts like the plague.

Newsflash: an "op-ed" piece does not constitute "fact"... snap out of it, eh?

 

[12icer]

Lets see,, who's facts? Surely not liberal talking points!! The Repubs, are at a severe disadvantage due to electoral college shuffling. Not voters, the rewriting of state laws to nullify the votes of smaller districts.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep. Trump, too, actually, when you get past the hyperbole, and focus on various pieces of his core message.

no, Trump is blaming brown people for the misery of white people. Bernie understands that Rich people are causing the misery of working people.

Tell that to the roofers and carpenters and plumbers and landscapers and dry-wallers and painters and wallpaper-hangers and electricians and their helpers and apprentices that your Illegal Aliens have pushed out of the marketplace with their low-ball under-the-table wages; ruining decades of hard-fought gains by Organized Labor; a Democratic pillar.

Except white people don't really want to get into those lines of work.

Yep. And both Trump and Sanders realize this, and say as much. That's the biggest reason why the Populist Rebellion of 2016 is so profound and pervasive at present.

Neither one of those fools will be the nominees of their parties.

 

[JoeB131]

It is a shame you cannot come forth with a dialogue, only insults that squash any kind of honest discussion with your counterparts.

It's hard to have a discussion with people who insist on remaining stupid.

People who listen to some fat, drug addled closeted homosexual who tell them t hat poor white people are being screwed over by poor brown people, and not the rich that are causing their misery.

 

[Montrovant]

Yep. Trump, too, actually, when you get past the hyperbole, and focus on various pieces of his core message.

no, Trump is blaming brown people for the misery of white people. Bernie understands that Rich people are causing the misery of working people.

Tell that to the roofers and carpenters and plumbers and landscapers and dry-wallers and painters and wallpaper-hangers and electricians and their helpers and apprentices that your Illegal Aliens have pushed out of the marketplace with their low-ball under-the-table wages; ruining decades of hard-fought gains by Organized Labor; a Democratic pillar.

Except white people don't really want to get into those lines of work.

Yep. And both Trump and Sanders realize this, and say as much. That's the biggest reason why the Populist Rebellion of 2016 is so profound and pervasive at present.

Neither one of those fools will be the nominees of their parties.

Wait, white people don't want to be plumbers or carpenters or electricians? That's what you're going with?

 

[Montrovant]

Tell that to the roofers and carpenters and plumbers and landscapers and dry-wallers and painters and wallpaper-hangers and electricians and their helpers and apprentices that your Illegal Aliens have pushed out of the marketplace with their low-ball under-the-table wages; ruining decades of hard-fought gains by Organized Labor; a Democratic pillar.

Are there a whole lot of under-the-table paid illegal carpenters and plumbers and electricians?

 

[Kondor3]

Yep. Trump, too, actually, when you get past the hyperbole, and focus on various pieces of his core message.

no, Trump is blaming brown people for the misery of white people. Bernie understands that Rich people are causing the misery of working people...

Blaming brown people is merely the mechanism, not the core of the matter.

Tell that to the roofers and carpenters and plumbers and landscapers and dry-wallers and painters and wallpaper-hangers and electricians and their helpers and apprentices that your Illegal Aliens have pushed out of the marketplace with their low-ball under-the-table wages; ruining decades of hard-fought gains by Organized Labor; a Democratic pillar.

Except white people don't really want to get into those lines of work.

Standard LibProg defense - a grotesque falsehood - against any voicing of the truth, related to the damage that Illegal Aliens have done to the trades and our fellow citizens.

Try standing with your own fellow countrymen, for once, rather than this plague of outsiders.

Or... by siding with Illegal Aliens... perhaps you ARE standing with your fellow countrymen?

...Neither one of those fools will be the nominees of their parties.

We will know the answer to that, soon enough.

 

[ScienceRocks]

What happened? The libertarian movement took over the party and accepted they'd have to work with the radical fundie Christians to run it....


So what we have today is a mixture of economic liberterianism and social extreme conservativism.

 

[Kondor3]

Tell that to the roofers and carpenters and plumbers and landscapers and dry-wallers and painters and wallpaper-hangers and electricians and their helpers and apprentices that your Illegal Aliens have pushed out of the marketplace with their low-ball under-the-table wages; ruining decades of hard-fought gains by Organized Labor; a Democratic pillar.

Are there a whole lot of under-the-table paid illegal carpenters and plumbers and electricians?

No, but there are plenty of "helpers" that have been usurping the jobs and wages of legitimate apprentices, for decades now...

 

[JoeB131]

Standard LibProg defense - a grotesque falsehood - against any voicing of the truth, related to the damage that Illegal Aliens have done to the trades and our fellow citizens.

Try standing with your own fellow countrymen, for once, rather than this plague of outsiders.

Or... by siding with Illegal Aliens... perhaps you ARE standing with your fellow countrymen?

My fellow countrymen are not the christian bigots who support the GOP. Seriously, fuck those guys for just being stupid. Which is anyone who still votes Republican after 2008.