Can someone explain what has happened to the GOP?

[Cecilie1200]

Certainly you'd need the votes to do that. Are you confident you can get them on a macro scale?
.

No.

Actually, I think it is very late in the game to turn things around for America.

The most likely scenario for the US, imo, in the foreseeable future, is pretty grim.


But, Trump is shaking things up enough to give me hope.

Especially his strong challenge to Political Correctness.

Oh, yeah, great. The world's in crisis, edging toward catastrophe, and we're supposed to be hopeful because someone can be crude and vulgar.

Hey, I can do both. Does that qualify ME to be President?

The world is "in crisis, edging toward catastrophe" BECAUSE OF WIDELY SHARED IDEAS AND POLICIES.

And part of THAT is that Political Correctness enforces conformity in the madness.

YOu can't see it, because you are part of it.

I'M part of political correctness? I am?!

Do you even know who you're talking to? Or do you just assume that the entire world consists of Trump, his Trumpettes, and the far left, because The Donald has purchased conservatism and you Johnny-Come-Latelys now own the franchise?

Newsflash, Chuckles: it's entirely possible to be "politically incorrect" without sounding like a spoiled teenager trying to offend his parents at the dinner table. And it's actually more desirable, when the person you're talking about wants to lead the free world.

The biggest concentration of "madness" around here is you wild-eyed, drooling Trump fanboys.

Missourian

You gonna come here and teach her some manners?

I'm not about teaching manners, Sparkles. I'm about teaching truth. You have me mistaken for Emily Post.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

 

[LoneLaugher]

When what you tell your representatives what you desire is batshit crazy or unattainable.....and you believe him or her when they tell you it can be done.....it is you who is at fault.

Only an imbecile would sit at a town hall meeting in 2012 and cheer when the nutbag on stage claimed that he'd get the ACA repealed. Your problem is that that audience was full of imbeciles.....who'd only vote for someone who told them that bullshit. If a person wanted to serve his constituents...he or she had to caress the balls of imbeciles first.

Like Ted Cruz. He is telling you that ON DAY ONE he will rescinded EVERY SINGLE OBAMA EXECUTIVE ORDER. You will eat that up. You must know that he won't do that. Your stupidity will be overshadowed only by your dopey outrage when it isn't done.

The only way you'll get politicians who actually do what they promise.....is to NOT make them promise crazy shit in the first place. Building walls....killing gay marriage.....killing the environment.....sending kids to die in Iran, etc. The rest of America isn't going to let it happen. You'll just be disappointed and throw more tantrums.

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

Awesome. Campaign finance reform. The one area where we all agree!! There are politicians calling for this.....and who will appoint SC judges who will vote to can Citizens United. I wonder how many "conservative" voters will support them?

 

[Rouge Rover]

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

True but how can this be done? The Founders understood human nature, they set up our federal government so three branches would protect their turf hoping the worst in mankind could be used to ensure some sort of equilibrium but that's not what we have today. We have two major political parties who are cooperating with each other, there is zero chance they are going to pass any reform aimed at limiting what they can do so where does the impetus for reform come from?

 

[Mac1958]

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

True but how can this be done? The Founders understood human nature, they set up our federal government so three branches would protect their turf hoping the worst in mankind could be used to ensure some sort of equilibrium but that's not what we have today. We have two major political parties who are cooperating with each other, there is zero chance they are going to pass any reform aimed at limiting what they can do so where does the impetus for reform come from?

Yeah, hell, great question. I don't know, honestly, but we may have a clue right in front of us right now: The powerful popularity of Trump and Sanders.

Seems pretty clear that there is a growing percentage of the populace that has "had enough". Great. What if both of them were also proposing what I proposed? Such straightforward ideas can be easily communicated. Seems to me we just need some brave, high-profile people to get the ball rolling and we have a chance to create a wave.

My best guess, anyway.
.

 

[candycorn]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

If you've been promised the moon in the past and are aghast when delivery doesn't come, I fail to have much sympathy for you if you line up shoulder to shoulder behind a man (Mr. Trump) who promises you the entire galaxy and that everything is going to be "terrific"; gives zero specifics, and the specifics given are so off program, you question the sanity of them (Mexico paying for a wall, a 45% tarriff, a ban on Muslims).

As for getting politics out of politics; it may be the one area where Clinton and the Establishment Republicans find common ground. Obviously, most of the GOP field is there just to sell books and drive up their speaking fees. You get rid of their white knights and they will go bye bye.

 

[Jackson]

People looked to the GOP, to push back 11,000,000 Illegal Aliens... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the wars that it started... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs overseas... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to turn around the economy it wrecked... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to make trickle-down economics work... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to rescue the Middle Class... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the Obama Social Reengineering juggernaut... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to provide equitable tax reform for all... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to streamline the government... and it failed to do so.

People have come to the conclusion that Republican leadership is almost as full of shit as Democratic leadership.

But, there's really no point in trying to launch a Third Party, the way things are now.

So.. the Pubs find themselves with a Populist Rebellion on their hands...

People are shoving aside the existing (Establishment) party leadership, gutting the party, and making it their own, as it once was, back when it deserved the name G(rand) O(ld) P(arty), before the Corporatists hijacked it in the early 20th Century...

And, of course, the party Ruling Elites don't know whether to shit or go blind or wind their watches... they don't have a clue how to get out of the dog-house with their rank-and-file...

In the long run, a turn towards Populism is probably a good thing... it's actually quite unwise, to allow the Swells to get too comfortable in their roles...

This is, after all, supposed to be a government OF the People, BY the People, and FOR the People...

Consider the present Populist Rebellion to be a long-overdue Market Correction...

You articulated that well. I have just one simple question. Those of us who have at least identified with the Republican party are up in arms, anti-establishment, and "mad as hell" that the party failed as you established above. We had an expectation that all of those conditions would be addressed and solutions would be found. And we are dismayed at the party that we gave them the majority rule and they have squandered it.

We think, we act and we are angry that the party failed us. Just when do the Democrats look at their party and scrutinize it for the failures for which they are responsible? Why do Democrats just muddle on, think nothing of the incredible debt that hammers home that as protectors of the state and future generations they, too are colossal failures?

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

If you've been promised the moon in the past and are aghast when delivery doesn't come, I fail to have much sympathy for you if you line up shoulder to shoulder behind a man (Mr. Trump) who promises you the entire galaxy and that everything is going to be "terrific"; gives zero specifics, and the specifics given are so off program, you question the sanity of them (Mexico paying for a wall, a 45% tarriff, a ban on Muslims).

As for getting politics out of politics; it may be the one area where Clinton and the Establishment Republicans find common ground. Obviously, most of the GOP field is there just to sell books and drive up their speaking fees. You get rid of their white knights and they will go bye bye.

The support for people like Trump isn't happening in a vacuum. The "conservative movement" is being goosed along by apocalyptic conservative media, and it's not exactly difficult to see by their actions, it's not exactly difficult to hear when you speak with them.

They're making it much easier for the hard Left to move the country further Left, and they don't see it.
.

 

[candycorn]

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

True but how can this be done? The Founders understood human nature, they set up our federal government so three branches would protect their turf hoping the worst in mankind could be used to ensure some sort of equilibrium but that's not what we have today. We have two major political parties who are cooperating with each other, there is zero chance they are going to pass any reform aimed at limiting what they can do so where does the impetus for reform come from?

Yeah, hell, great question. I don't know, honestly, but we may have a clue right in front of us right now: The powerful popularity of Trump and Sanders.

Seems pretty clear that there is a growing percentage of the populace that has "had enough". Great. What if both of them were also proposing what I proposed? Such straightforward ideas can be easily communicated. Seems to me we just need some brave, high-profile people to get the ball rolling and we have a chance to create a wave.

My best guess, anyway.
.

Term limits are a bad idea. A). It prohibits you from voting for a person you may be happy with and B). unless they are federal and universal; the states that have them are at a disadvantage.

Public funding elections? Great idea. You can only spend what we give you.

I would go a bit further on federal level elections. Give free air time and radio time to any candidate who has X amount of support though petitions of registered voters. So if the Iowa Caucus is on Feb 1, let the SoS in Iowa certify that someone like O'Malley or Carson or Clinton or Kasich has 30,000 signatures of registered voters on the Saturday before and force the station of their choice to give an open mic for 10 minutes. The FCC does regulate the public air waves and this will be a once-every-four-year mandate for possibly 200 minutes of air time (if you have 20 candidates) on the local station(s) or the equivalent to 4 infomercials for the Greatest Wheelbarrow Ever!!!

Have the stations make it available on-line as well; decide by lottery who goes when.... Certainly this is not too much to ask.

Duplicate the same thing on radio.

Bernie may decide that he wants the stations in Davenport to carry his while Clinton may think Des Moines is locked up and decides that Cedar Rapids is the best outlet.

 

[candycorn]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

If you've been promised the moon in the past and are aghast when delivery doesn't come, I fail to have much sympathy for you if you line up shoulder to shoulder behind a man (Mr. Trump) who promises you the entire galaxy and that everything is going to be "terrific"; gives zero specifics, and the specifics given are so off program, you question the sanity of them (Mexico paying for a wall, a 45% tarriff, a ban on Muslims).

As for getting politics out of politics; it may be the one area where Clinton and the Establishment Republicans find common ground. Obviously, most of the GOP field is there just to sell books and drive up their speaking fees. You get rid of their white knights and they will go bye bye.

The support for people like Trump isn't happening in a vacuum. The "conservative movement" is being goosed along by apocalyptic conservative media, and it's not exactly difficult to see by their actions, it's not exactly difficult to hear when you speak with them.

They're making it much easier for the hard Left to move the country further Left, and they don't see it.
.

I can go along with your assessment if you think that the phenomenon surrounding the candidacy of Mr. Trump is the product of the goosing. I think it is more a function of a super empowered person seeing the Citizens United ruling and thinking to himself, "Why not instead of finding a surrogate, be my own surrogate."

Put another way, he didn't get drafted by some group of angry conservatives who see him as the last, best chance to preserve a way of life that is disappearing (cue the Shelby Foote voice over), he saw an opportunity and (TTBOMK) with little or no research inserted himself into the proceedings.

 

[Mac1958]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

If you've been promised the moon in the past and are aghast when delivery doesn't come, I fail to have much sympathy for you if you line up shoulder to shoulder behind a man (Mr. Trump) who promises you the entire galaxy and that everything is going to be "terrific"; gives zero specifics, and the specifics given are so off program, you question the sanity of them (Mexico paying for a wall, a 45% tarriff, a ban on Muslims).

As for getting politics out of politics; it may be the one area where Clinton and the Establishment Republicans find common ground. Obviously, most of the GOP field is there just to sell books and drive up their speaking fees. You get rid of their white knights and they will go bye bye.

The support for people like Trump isn't happening in a vacuum. The "conservative movement" is being goosed along by apocalyptic conservative media, and it's not exactly difficult to see by their actions, it's not exactly difficult to hear when you speak with them.

They're making it much easier for the hard Left to move the country further Left, and they don't see it.
.

I can go along with your assessment if you think that the phenomenon surrounding the candidacy of Mr. Trump is the product of the goosing. I think it is more a function of a super empowered person seeing the Citizens United ruling and thinking to himself, "Why not instead of finding a surrogate, be my own surrogate."

Put another way, he didn't get drafted by some group of angry conservatives who see him as the last, best chance to preserve a way of life that is disappearing (cue the Shelby Foote voice over), he saw an opportunity and (TTBOMK) with little or no research inserted himself into the proceedings.

I don't think there can any denying that conservative talk radio has played a significant role in this. Limbaugh backed Walker (not officially, of course, for plausible deniability) and Walker soared. He then moved to Trump and Cruz and they soared and Walker disappeared. Same with Hannity and Levin. This isn't a coincidence.

Now, those same three hosts are speaking glowingly about Rubio out of nowhere (or, after his performance in Iowa).

This "anti-establishment" thing is an echo chamber like I've never seen, and it has 90% of the energy in the party.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

That is what happens when the people feel they have been betrayed. Revenge. Apathy. Derision. Hatred. Stubbornness. When the people you elect don't serve your interests, when they promise you the moon... that can only happen so many times before people get fed up with it. You can strike a dog on the nose so many times before he bites your hand. They will go elsewhere for fulfillment.

That goes for anyone else who seems to support those the people feel have betrayed them. You become an object of their wrath. The people feel their legislative interests have been ignored. So compromise is out of the question. Any dealings with the traitorous individuals will be seen as further betrayal, ergo, they see both parties and their supporters as equally repulsive as a result. I know, I've been down that road, and as of right now, that is why I abandoned the Republican party. I have considered rejoining, but this post of yours returned me to reality.

The "inter-party schism" has only been widened because of all of this. Politics is a cancer. It embitters the soul and darkens the heart. It not only divides a party, but an entire nation. Even if people cared enough, this "inter-party schism" will take generations to heal... that, or America, as she is now, won't live to see the day when that happens.

Well put, thanks. I'm struck by a couple of things.

About being "promised the moon" and then being betrayed: What might that be telling us on a macro level? Could it be that these politicians are naive about what power those promises will have when put to the legislative test? Or that they are simply lying to get elected? Personally, I think it's the former. The conservative movement wants it all now. They think they can just jerk the country back to where they want it, but it doesn't work that way. We didn't get to where we are overnight, and we wouldn't go back in the snap of a finger. The conservative movement has to earn its victories, not just blow shit up.

And regarding politics being a cancer. I'm similarly cynical, and I see this getting worse. The only possible remedy I see is to understand human nature and act accordingly. These people will take every inch we give them, so we must take away the very tools they use to run their con. So, term limits, publicly-funded elections, Balanced Budget Amendment. If we don't take away the tools, how can we complain when they are used against us?
.

If you've been promised the moon in the past and are aghast when delivery doesn't come, I fail to have much sympathy for you if you line up shoulder to shoulder behind a man (Mr. Trump) who promises you the entire galaxy and that everything is going to be "terrific"; gives zero specifics, and the specifics given are so off program, you question the sanity of them (Mexico paying for a wall, a 45% tarriff, a ban on Muslims).

As for getting politics out of politics; it may be the one area where Clinton and the Establishment Republicans find common ground. Obviously, most of the GOP field is there just to sell books and drive up their speaking fees. You get rid of their white knights and they will go bye bye.

The support for people like Trump isn't happening in a vacuum. The "conservative movement" is being goosed along by apocalyptic conservative media, and it's not exactly difficult to see by their actions, it's not exactly difficult to hear when you speak with them.

They're making it much easier for the hard Left to move the country further Left, and they don't see it.
.

I can go along with your assessment if you think that the phenomenon surrounding the candidacy of Mr. Trump is the product of the goosing. I think it is more a function of a super empowered person seeing the Citizens United ruling and thinking to himself, "Why not instead of finding a surrogate, be my own surrogate."

Put another way, he didn't get drafted by some group of angry conservatives who see him as the last, best chance to preserve a way of life that is disappearing (cue the Shelby Foote voice over), he saw an opportunity and (TTBOMK) with little or no research inserted himself into the proceedings.

I don't think there can any denying that conservative talk radio has played a significant role in this. Limbaugh backed (not officially, of course, for plausible deniability) Walker and Walker soared. He then moved to Trump and Cruz and they soared and Walker disappeared. Same with Hannity and Levin. This isn't a coincidence.

Now, those same three hosts are speaking glowingly about Rubio out of nowhere (or, after his performance in Iowa).

This "anti-establishment" thing is an echo chamber like I've never seen, and it has 90% of the energy in the party.
.

You don't think people are denying that AM radio and Fox News have directed the GOP for the past two decades.

 

[Kondor3]

People looked to the GOP, to push back 11,000,000 Illegal Aliens... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the wars that it started... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs overseas... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to turn around the economy it wrecked... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to make trickle-down economics work... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to rescue the Middle Class... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the Obama Social Reengineering juggernaut... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to provide equitable tax reform for all... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to streamline the government... and it failed to do so.

People have come to the conclusion that Republican leadership is almost as full of shit as Democratic leadership.

But, there's really no point in trying to launch a Third Party, the way things are now.

So.. the Pubs find themselves with a Populist Rebellion on their hands...

People are shoving aside the existing (Establishment) party leadership, gutting the party, and making it their own, as it once was, back when it deserved the name G(rand) O(ld) P(arty), before the Corporatists hijacked it in the early 20th Century...

And, of course, the party Ruling Elites don't know whether to shit or go blind or wind their watches... they don't have a clue how to get out of the dog-house with their rank-and-file...

In the long run, a turn towards Populism is probably a good thing... it's actually quite unwise, to allow the Swells to get too comfortable in their roles...

This is, after all, supposed to be a government OF the People, BY the People, and FOR the People...

Consider the present Populist Rebellion to be a long-overdue Market Correction...

You articulated that well. I have just one simple question. Those of us who have at least identified with the Republican party are up in arms, anti-establishment, and "mad as hell" that the party failed as you established above. We had an expectation that all of those conditions would be addressed and solutions would be found. And we are dismayed at the party that we gave them the majority rule and they have squandered it.

We think, we act and we are angry that the party failed us. Just when do the Democrats look at their party and scrutinize it for the failures for which they are responsible? Why do Democrats just muddle on, think nothing of the incredible debt that hammers home that as protectors of the state and future generations they, too are colossal failures?

Don't look now, but there is a struggle underway for the soul of the Democratic Party, as well... give it time... the self-assessment and polar-opposites bashing has begun.

 

[JoeB131]

People looked to the GOP, to push back 11,000,000 Illegal Aliens... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the wars that it started... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs overseas... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to turn around the economy it wrecked... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to make trickle-down economics work... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to rescue the Middle Class... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to stop the Obama Social Reengineering juggernaut... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to provide equitable tax reform for all... and it failed to do so.

People looked to the GOP to streamline the government... and it failed to do so.

People have come to the conclusion that Republican leadership is almost as full of shit as Democratic leadership.

But, there's really no point in trying to launch a Third Party, the way things are now.

So.. the Pubs find themselves with a Populist Rebellion on their hands...

People are shoving aside the existing (Establishment) party leadership, gutting the party, and making it their own, as it once was, back when it deserved the name G(rand) O(ld) P(arty), before the Corporatists hijacked it in the early 20th Century...

And, of course, the party Ruling Elites don't know whether to shit or go blind or wind their watches... they don't have a clue how to get out of the dog-house with their rank-and-file...

In the long run, a turn towards Populism is probably a good thing... it's actually quite unwise, to allow the Swells to get too comfortable in their roles...

This is, after all, supposed to be a government OF the People, BY the People, and FOR the People...

Consider the present Populist Rebellion to be a long-overdue Market Correction...

Why would anyone look to the GOP to do ANY of these things? they are the ones who caused most of them.

Besides the fact your populist rebellion has flamed out, and you are probably going to take Rubio like your masters tell you to.

 

[Kondor3]

...You don't think people are denying that AM radio and Fox News have directed the GOP for the past two decades.

Not really, although the impact of AM Talk Radio is undeniable.

Jealous you didn't think of it first?

Bill Press... Stephanie Miller... Normal Goldman... all part of Progressive Talk Radio.

It's tough, playing catch-up, isn't it?

Especially when you're pitching a whiny little biotch LibProg agenda.

 

[Kondor3]

...Why would anyone look to the GOP to do ANY of these things? they are the ones who caused most of them...

The truth actually lies in the middle, but we won't let Reality interfere with Partisanship... right?

...Besides the fact your populist rebellion has flamed out...

Damned shame, if true, but it's wwaaaaaaayy too early to make that call.

Just ask the Bernie Sanders folk...

...and you are probably going to take Rubio like your masters tell you to.

Given that I voted for Obumble... in both 2008 and 2012... I'll put your suggestion in the 'circular' file cabinet, where it belongs.

 

[JoeB131]

And maybe explain it without the standard hyperbole and partisan BS. Just some honest, solid analysis. Or maybe provide a link to a piece that someone has written that calmly and reasonably explains it.

I think this "Fox News is the enemy" thing is the final straw with me. I'm now completely lost, and I feel like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, floating away from reality with no way to get back.

To wit:

• The aforementioned darling news network is, overnight, the target of at least as much derision as MSNBC
  
• A bombastic New Yorker who is clearly not a conservative is running away with the nomination
• That same candidate can literally say the most ridiculous things and it only makes his support stronger
  
• Suddenly, nationalism & populism clearly have more energy in the party than "conservative values"
• A nihilistic, "I don't care, just blow the whole thing up" attitude seems to completely permeate the party
  
• The slightest nod toward legislative cooperation is simply no longer allowed in public discourse
• The Establishment, whatever that is, appears to be more hated than any Democrat

It's like half the party has just snapped.

Exactly what is the goal here? And does anyone care if this inter-party schism is healed?
.

What's happened to the GOP is that the Monster has come back and terrorized the Mad Doctor.

For years, the GOP has been using sexual, religious and racial fears to distract the middle class from what the rich are doing to them.

And when that Middle Class White Male sees that his new boss is openly gay and his daughter is dating a Mexican, but the rich got all their tax cuts and union busting, they are revolting.

Trump has been the immediate beneficiary, but these people are probably going to gravitate to Cruz.

 

[JoeB131]

...Why would anyone look to the GOP to do ANY of these things? they are the ones who caused most of them...

The truth actually lies in the middle, but we won't let Reality interfere with Partisanship... right?

...Besides the fact your populist rebellion has flamed out...

Damned shame, if true, but it's wwaaaaaaayy too early to make that call.

Just ask the Bernie Sanders folk...

...and you are probably going to take Rubio like your masters tell you to.

Given that I voted for Obumble... in both 2008 and 2012... I'll put your suggestion in the 'circular' file cabinet, where it belongs.

SO you were head of the "Klansmen for Obama" organization?

No, guy, you see, the problem is, the GOP got everything it wanted economically. It got the tax cuts for the rich, it got the free trade, it got the deregulation of industry. It got "Right to Work" and "At Will" employment. It got rid of all the things it promised us up and down that if we just went along with, they would create all these jobs and it would be wonderful.

Except it didn't happen, did it?

Now, I do agree that Bernie and Trump have tapped into the frustration people feel over all this.

Bernie is just a lot closer in identifying the cause. Your life is not miserable because a Mexican came here to do a job you wouldn't want to do no matter how much they paid you.

Your life is miserable because they moved the job you probably want to do to China, and they got a tax break for doing it.