Can the FBI hunt down antifa group that attacked Andy Ngo for "Hate Crime"?

[iceberg]

Coyote any white Supremecist groups out there doing this on a regular basis?

Doing what exactly?

Acting like MS13?

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

 

[FA_Q2]

Doing what exactly?

Acting like MS13?

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

I think that antifa is technically a terrorist organization - they clearly fit the definition - but what do we gain from stating them as such?

I think this is a rather pervasive problem with the way terrorism is perceived in a post 9/11 world where terrorism can take the form of a militant group like antifa, a crazy lone wolf with a manifesto AND also take the form of a mass murdering group like Al-Qaeda. This is particularly true when you consider the legal ramifications involved. Labeling a group as terrorists gives the government more leeway in how they handle members.

I have to agree with coyote's statement: "we should be careful here...just my opinion." Using the term terrorist for groups like this either waters it down to pointlessness or elevates groups like antifa to a level that they are simply not at. The term is simply to broad in this context.

 

[Coyote]

Doing what exactly?

Acting like MS13?

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

Ohhh. That was a typo. I did not mean "white" but "white supremacists". When I am typing on the ipad it seems to skip entire words sometimes. I can see where you got the impression you got. Apologies

 

[Coyote]

Doing what exactly?

Acting like MS13?

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

actually one other thing. There are a lot of inaccuracies regarding Charlottesville. There was no stand stand order.

Charlottesville Stand-Down Order? - FactCheck.org

 

[iceberg]

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

I think that antifa is technically a terrorist organization - they clearly fit the definition - but what do we gain from stating them as such?

I think this is a rather pervasive problem with the way terrorism is perceived in a post 9/11 world where terrorism can take the form of a militant group like antifa, a crazy lone wolf with a manifesto AND also take the form of a mass murdering group like Al-Qaeda. This is particularly true when you consider the legal ramifications involved. Labeling a group as terrorists gives the government more leeway in how they handle members.

I have to agree with coyote's statement: "we should be careful here...just my opinion." Using the term terrorist for groups like this either waters it down to pointlessness or elevates groups like antifa to a level that they are simply not at. The term is simply to broad in this context.

She does have a point about watering down words, i do agree. If the police would handle it I think it would be fine. But they seem to watch and let it go.

 

[iceberg]

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

Ohhh. That was a typo. I did not mean "white" but "white supremacists". When I am typing on the ipad it seems to skip entire words sometimes. I can see where you got the impression you got. Apologies

OK that does change things which is why I wanted clarification.

 

[iceberg]

anti-fa. we know the group. we see them far too often beating up people who they SAY are "hate mongers".

you say we should fear white nazi supremecists. i just want to know the names of these organized groups causing the same amount of terror, or worse, to people than what anti-fa does.

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

actually one other thing. There are a lot of inaccuracies regarding Charlottesville. There was no stand stand order.

Charlottesville Stand-Down Order? - FactCheck.org

I've seen it reported both ways. The problem with having a media who caters to a mindset is the total inaccuracies being flung about.

 

[Coyote]

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

I think that antifa is technically a terrorist organization - they clearly fit the definition - but what do we gain from stating them as such?

I think this is a rather pervasive problem with the way terrorism is perceived in a post 9/11 world where terrorism can take the form of a militant group like antifa, a crazy lone wolf with a manifesto AND also take the form of a mass murdering group like Al-Qaeda. This is particularly true when you consider the legal ramifications involved. Labeling a group as terrorists gives the government more leeway in how they handle members.

I have to agree with coyote's statement: "we should be careful here...just my opinion." Using the term terrorist for groups like this either waters it down to pointlessness or elevates groups like antifa to a level that they are simply not at. The term is simply to broad in this context.

She does have a point about watering down words, i do agree. If the police would handle it I think it would be fine. But they seem to watch and let it go.

I think in some cases the police walk a fine line between not impending free speech and protecting public safety. Kind of damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

 

[FA_Q2]

Partly, see my response to Westwall, as an answer to this. I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. You don’t need organized or disorganized groups to create fear, bloodshed, loss of life. A lone wolf, following a a shared ideology, can do a lot of damage and has. A lot of lone wolves are far less traceable and predictable than organized groups, and have committed far more murders.

So who SHOULD we be afraid of? I am not afraid of Antifa or white supremacists. The likelyhood of encountering something is rare.

But I worry about the effect of false equivalency... if you begin comparing Antifa to MS13...and ignore the white supremacists who they oppose...are you not empowering those groups?

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

I think that antifa is technically a terrorist organization - they clearly fit the definition - but what do we gain from stating them as such?

I think this is a rather pervasive problem with the way terrorism is perceived in a post 9/11 world where terrorism can take the form of a militant group like antifa, a crazy lone wolf with a manifesto AND also take the form of a mass murdering group like Al-Qaeda. This is particularly true when you consider the legal ramifications involved. Labeling a group as terrorists gives the government more leeway in how they handle members.

I have to agree with coyote's statement: "we should be careful here...just my opinion." Using the term terrorist for groups like this either waters it down to pointlessness or elevates groups like antifa to a level that they are simply not at. The term is simply to broad in this context.

She does have a point about watering down words, i do agree. If the police would handle it I think it would be fine. But they seem to watch and let it go.

That is a separate problem than classification. I see that as a political message infiltrating police work.

What antifa practices is blatantly against the law and the police should be using everything at their disposal to take down these fools.

 

[FA_Q2]

ok - let's back up a bit here. all this started because i said i was FOR calling anti-fa a terrorist organization. this defined as a group of people - doesn't matter color, race, gender or the like, creating terror for others. i don't want to get complex with this here.

you said "what about the white violence, do we call them terrorist also?" OF WHICH i asked you to name these groups so we can add them to the list.

what do i get?

"white represent a greater (I suppose you mean threat here) to life. they feel empowered by the Trump presidency..."

how is this statement not racist to the core? you are judging all white people by the actions of a few idiots yet you refuse to be associated with the anti-fa, hell even defend them and their violence to EVERYONE. you're angry at me for being white but i'm not supposed to be angry at people for beating the shit out of others.

you just said you wanted to label all white people as terrorists based on my asking you who to throw in the mix with anti-fa.

and you sit and wonder why you got pissed off "white people" out here. maybe it's because you're so willing to damn us all for the actions of a few yet you refuse to allow anyone to call someone on "your side" violent in the process WHO IS IN FACT OPENLY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ANYONE NOT THEM.

that's a party foul at any college, Coyote .

I don’t understand where you are getting this from. Seriously. I have never condemned all white people for the actions of a few. NEVER. If you think I have, show me. I am very much opposed to condemning all based on the actions of some, whether it is black, white, Christian, Muslim, left or right. And this is no new thing. I have multiple times stated that Antifa engages in violent activity. You seem to miss that. Yet another reason why it is easier to just snark than discuss!

I try to be clear in my language. When I state White Supremacists I mean just that (and coding them as white nationalists is just an attempt at White washing). I certainly don’t mean all white people. Nor am I labeling white people as terrorists. So where do you get that? To clarify, not all or even a significant minority of white people support their ideology, just like most of the left do not support Antifa. By the same token most white nationalist are not terrorists, but some clearly are and some groups are clearly violent.

In the end, designating a group a terrorist organization is significant.

Here is one such list: List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

I don’t see Antifa in that Baileywick. That doesn’t mean they don’t engage in criminal activity, they do.

Now back off and claim I said things I didn’t.

i'm trying to clarify what you said and telling you what i have read and how it comes across to me. by now you know i don't normally attack you but when you say things like:

" I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants. "

care to explain how this is NOT an attack on white people or a condemnation of them? first, it's missing some words so please fill in those blanks so i don't have to guess. like white PEOPLE, white BREAD, white Devils - white WHO represents a greater WHAT to "life"?

your over-mass generalization does, in my eyes, sweep across all white people as being the threat on life.

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

now with that definition of racism and what you just said, i would qualify that as a racist statement to white people where you say the primary trait is violence held TO THE WHITE RACE. if you interpret that simple definition differently then fine - tell me your definition of racism and let's at least agree on that constitutes that action.

and while you have said that anti-fa is yes, violent (and no i didn't miss it, my "quest" was to have you name these white supremacist groups you did a "whataboutism" for to make sure we didn't leave out the white people in this). your insistence on white supremacist groups being just as dangerous led me to ask you - TO CLARIFY - which ACTIVE GROUPS are engaged in this.

instead you give me:

"I think in this era, white represent a greater to life. They feel empowered by the Trump presidency, and legitimized by public mood that is hostile to minorities and immigrants."

now that's fine if you think it. your right. but don't think i won't challenge that and that is what i'm doing now. my "snark" is seldom many thought out paragraphs. it's a simple one-liner and i ignore that person from there cause they're an idiot. while you and i disagree on things, you're far from an idiot - which is why it surprised me when you made that statement that pretty much said white people are the threat.

so - since i was however asking for GROUPS we can classify as terrorist so we can make sure to include your own hate groups, you and much of the left won't give "groups" you give me random assholes out there hurting people. lf you want to classify those people as a terrorist, feel free. i'll be glad to join you in condemning THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE who are doing this regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and the like. i just don't care about those things. i care about what you do and how you treat others. that's it.

none of this however changes that anti-fa needs to be classified as a terrorist organization because they are in fact out there terrorizing people and beating them up for nothing more than speaking their mind and they didn't like it. now if the police would do their jobs at the rallys where they show up hell i'd be fine with that. arrest the shits and throw them in jail. but that's not what these typically liberal cities do, now is it? they tell the police to stand down and let the anti-fa give those evil conservatives a beating they deserve.

Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists
Confirmed: Police Told to Stand Down in Charlottesville—Did Nothing as War Broke Out
Police Stand Down, Allow “Anti-hate” Anarchists to Attack Conservatives
Why Were The Police Held Back In Charlottesville?

maybe if the police would have done their job here and stopped the violence before it started, that young lady would still be alive today.

so again - care to explain that sentence of yours i've put in here twice? and can you at least see why i would feel that is a vast generalization that is in fact putting all white people, in your eyes, as representing a "threat" to greater life. now again, if "threat" is not the missing word, please let me know what it is.

I think that antifa is technically a terrorist organization - they clearly fit the definition - but what do we gain from stating them as such?

I think this is a rather pervasive problem with the way terrorism is perceived in a post 9/11 world where terrorism can take the form of a militant group like antifa, a crazy lone wolf with a manifesto AND also take the form of a mass murdering group like Al-Qaeda. This is particularly true when you consider the legal ramifications involved. Labeling a group as terrorists gives the government more leeway in how they handle members.

I have to agree with coyote's statement: "we should be careful here...just my opinion." Using the term terrorist for groups like this either waters it down to pointlessness or elevates groups like antifa to a level that they are simply not at. The term is simply to broad in this context.

She does have a point about watering down words, i do agree. If the police would handle it I think it would be fine. But they seem to watch and let it go.

I think in some cases the police walk a fine line between not impending free speech and protecting public safety. Kind of damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

In some cases they do. In almost every case with antifa they are not walking that fine line at all. Antifa's primary purpose is shutting down free speech, suppression and violence. The leaders within the movement openly advocate for it.

Standing by during rioting does not protect any rights whatsoever but does endanger many.

 

[Lysistrata]

I don't think that the people attacked Ngo have been identified. To be charged with a crime, the perp must be identified. To be charged on top with a hate crime, there must be a basis for the conclusion that Ngo was attacked due to his ethnicity, race, or similar individual characteristic, including religion (which has always been a choice). Hate-crime laws do not cover political affiliation and/or opinions.